Question to ponder

This has been something I have been thinking about - I would love to hear other viewpoints.

Do you think at some point the state should stop issuing elementary certifications?

Clearly the supply of elementary certified teachers exceeds the demand many times over (in my student teaching seminar 3 years ago, a superintendent told us the average elementary position receives over 2,000 applications). Are colleges doing a huge disservice to new entrants by NOT telling them how tough the job market is? Do they have an obligation to tell the students?

I ask also because I am a career changer. Former CPA, MBA - the whole deal. The easiest transition for me would have been to teach business. The night I went for my advisement at Dowling the woman there told me she could not in good conscience recommend getting a business license (she also said she could not recommend elementary, english, and social studies) - she said they weren't worth the paper they are written on. She steered me towards math, and although it required more classes, I got a job right out of school. Last Saturday I took the business CST (just to have it). I was SURROUNDED by people taking the Multi-Subject CST. It just seems like the supply of elementary teachers is just getting ridiculous.

Thoughts?

Message edited 4/17/2007 10:05:20 PM.

Re: Question to ponder

I've thought about this too. We spend thousands of dollars for this education, only to be making nothing subbing or tutoring, it's just not fair. I think its selfish for colleges to keep letting so many entrances in, also my college lied and said teachers were in demand!!!

Re: Question to ponder

Preaching to the choir! I have not only thought this but expressed this to many many people! It is ridiculous how many elem teachers there are especially on LI!

It is a HUGE money maker for schools. I feel that schools do not make it clear to students how hard it is to get a job and just keep pumping them out and saturating the market. The people who are already out there find it difficult to get a job as it is and then every December and May there is a new influx!

I could go on and on!

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I definitely agree. I was told the same thing by dowling about the Business Cert, and like you went for math (which you know already!)

Anyway, last year when I didn't have my business cert there were SOOOO Many job openings in that field. WHY? because schools were discourgaging it.

I wish I would have gotten it sooner, because last year (this school year) would have been the time.

As I read the job openings this year, I realize there are a LOT of home and career positions, why??? because college's are discourgaging the kids.

Re: Question to ponder

I agree wholeheartedly - my beef with this is the guidance field - there are about 7 grad school programs in the new york city/LI/Westchester area that have grad guidance programs and there are way way too many counselors for the jobs out there! IT took me almost three years to get a perm guidance job and I have a lot of experience in related fields (higher education) and leave replacements. I used to be told on interviews that there were on average 600 resumes sent in for each position - it made it seem like you had won just for getting an interview!

I know school districts (guidance dept) are very unhappy with what the grad schools are doing - taking money and flooding the system! They are doing a huge disservice!!


The reason Business teacher positions took a nose dive is because a few years ago the NYS Regents Graduation Req changed - students used to have to complete sequences in courses in order to graduate and taking a business sequence was a very popular way to bypass things like foreign lang requirements. So, once NYS got rid of sequences, the need for bus teachers became much less!
Sorry to go off on a tangent, but thought it was interesting...

Re: Question to ponder

I went to Mansfield State Teacher's college in 1990. They stopped taking ELED majors as of 91 for a while without a double major because they could see the field being flooded.

The other thought I have is I wonder what kind of research high school graduates in the last 8 years or so have done about career aspects. The flooding of ELED teachers is not a new thing. It's been happening for awhile. So I just wonder if they looked into it before heading down the career path. Yes colleges are doing a disservice in a sense, but they are still doing the job they are supposed to do- providing an education. It's your job to know how competive the field is that you want to enter just like someone majoring in business, finance and communications.

I knew from the time I was little I wanted to be a teacher. When I needed to decide what kind of teacher I wanted to be I looked at my options and where I would be able to get a job with more ease-- I found LOTE was the way to go, so that was the path I went.

It was a VERY difficult road for me, especially because FL is not something that comes easily to me. But I wanted it and I wanted it bad enough. I had a lot of strikes against me, not being native and not having traveled aboard but I kept going and I eventually found my home.


On a side note and bytching about college programs --- they need to revamp the LOTE programs-- half of what we study has not a damn thing to do with what we teach even if we were AP teachers! Life would have been much easier without half of the damn literature courses that IMO we quite useless in my life as a teacher in a middle school.

I wish everyone luck that is in the search. I know it can be disheartening. Have faith that someone will be able to see the passion you have in eyes and decide they want you!!

Re: Question to ponder

You are absolutely right. I think it's disgusting. I went to Hofstra.. they are like a bank. All they want is your money. I am one of those who graduated with a masters in Eled. I even know people who would love to help but can't because there are no jobs!! I am going back for ESL.. I think this might be my only in to LI plus I really want the cert. But I wish I knew this before.

Re: Question to ponder

Ok, can I be honest? Anyone going to school today for teaching should be well enough aware of the job market and how flooded it is. I mean, if I was about to embark on school for a career, I'd want to know what my chances of getting a job were like. I mean, music ed. programs out there always tell you there's tons of jobs, and I know damn well that's a lie. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as being disrespectful, but I think that many people know the situation with the job market and think that somehow the situation won't apply to them when they graduate. So, as irresponsible as it may be to keep offering these degrees and licenses, it's just as irresponsible to go ahead and get the degree and the license with knowing full-well that you will have a hard time finding a job or without knowing the job situation at all. Does that make sense? I think the responsibility of this one falls on the individual, not the state. JMO.

Re: Question to ponder

Rachel , I totally get what you're saying. Not to sound dopey - but if you're not in the education field, is it common knowledge that it's that saturated? I know the lack of math/science teachers gets a lot of press, but I don't ever remember seeing press going the other way. Although I guess everyone out there knows someone who is a teacher.

Re: Question to ponder

I don't think elementary certifications should be halted - it's not fair to the newer students wanting to enter the field, and it halts competition. I believe it's the student's responsibility to know about their field before they choose to enter it, but I also think a school should warn against programs that are saturated.

Re: Question to ponder

Message edited 4/18/2007 12:48:00 PM.

Re: Question to ponder

while it is frustrating, lack of jobs was a reality when I entered my program.

I am still hopeful something will open, however we are hoping to move within the next few years and I also plan to do more with my PE degree than just teaching.

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Re: Question to ponder

Im not a teacher BUT my DH and my sister are...

My sister wound up moving off of Long Island in order to get a job..

My DH is a Special Education Teacher + Male so he got a job no problem...He's also been teaching for 11 years..

He cant understand why anyone would go into teaching when there just isnt a demand for the jobs here...especially on Long Island.

The schools need to inform their students what the chances are of them getting a job on the island.

Re: Question to ponder

Re: Question to ponder

Posted by Meaghan729

Posted by prncss

Ok, can I be honest? Anyone going to school today for teaching should be well enough aware of the job market and how flooded it is. I mean, if I was about to embark on school for a career, I'd want to know what my chances of getting a job were like. I mean, music ed. programs out there always tell you there's tons of jobs, and I know damn well that's a lie. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as being disrespectful, but I think that many people know the situation with the job market and think that somehow the situation won't apply to them when they graduate. So, as irresponsible as it may be to keep offering these degrees and licenses, it's just as irresponsible to go ahead and get the degree and the license with knowing full-well that you will have a hard time finding a job or without knowing the job situation at all. Does that make sense? I think the responsibility of this one falls on the individual, not the state. JMO.

ITA. its not just education that is saturated, and I choose my college major not only based on interest, but based on how the job market was at the time I was goign to school.

I wasnt going to trust my future with a counsleor telling me what is in my best interest.

Message edited 4/19/2007 10:09:14 AM.

Re: Question to ponder

I agree that the field is crowded, but there are still some districts hiring a decent amount of eled teachers each year due to retirees and the influx of larger populations. My district is hiring a few new eled teachers bc we are getting more $ from the state and they want to keep the class sizes down. If you are a good teacher and and passionate about what you do, you will find a job. It also helps to network and get to know people -- go to happy hour at the Crazy Donkey, Bulldog, Carriage House, etc on a Friday and you'll see tons of teachers and admins-- strike up a convo and plug yourself. I know like three people who got a job that way.

Re: Question to ponder

Posted by vitha

Posted by Meaghan729

Posted by prncss

Ok, can I be honest? Anyone going to school today for teaching should be well enough aware of the job market and how flooded it is. I mean, if I was about to embark on school for a career, I'd want to know what my chances of getting a job were like. I mean, music ed. programs out there always tell you there's tons of jobs, and I know damn well that's a lie. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as being disrespectful, but I think that many people know the situation with the job market and think that somehow the situation won't apply to them when they graduate. So, as irresponsible as it may be to keep offering these degrees and licenses, it's just as irresponsible to go ahead and get the degree and the license with knowing full-well that you will have a hard time finding a job or without knowing the job situation at all. Does that make sense? I think the responsibility of this one falls on the individual, not the state. JMO.

ITA. its not just education that is saturated, and I choose my college major not only based on interest, but based on how the job market was at the time I was goign to school.

I wasnt going to trust my future with a counsleor telling me what is in my best interest.

While I agree that people should be aware of the job market in the field they choose, many people may want to be a teacher at any cost. They are willing to work in a catholic, private or city schools. Or they may be willing to put in the time and effort over the long hall to get a job. For some people this may be a career choice that they have always dreamed of, not just a job to make $$. I mean people still want to be actors, models and musicians and we all know the chance of making it is slim to none. It would be unfair to those people if the programs were done away with.