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RainyDay
LIF Adult
Member since 6/15 3990 total posts
Name:
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Herd Immunity- article
link
Message edited 7/8/2020 8:35:48 AM.
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Posted 7/8/20 7:38 AM  |
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valentinesbaby
LIF Adult
Member since 2/20 900 total posts
Name:
Valentines
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Re: Herd Immunity- article
Sorry but myself, family and friends have all said they will not take a vaccine. How can you trust something that just comes out? How do you know that it won’t cause more problems than the virus itself? Many times after someone gets the flu shot, they get the flu.
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| Posted 7/8/20 8:27 AM |
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Pomegranate5
LIF Adult
Member since 2/11 4798 total posts
Name:
Pomegranate5
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Re: Herd Immunity- article
I have three issues with this article.
1. NYS has done some of the most widespread antibody testing, and about 13% of the population show antibodies. Why are the rates everywhere else so much lower?
2. If the NYS antibody numbers ARE correct, then the fatality rate is essentially identical to the flu.
3. Even the most pro-vaccine people often don't get the flu vaccine because of the low efficacy rate. Not only that, but it's not an "anti-authority" attitude to be skeptical about a brand new vaccine for a brand new virus that as we speak science and medical experts still claim to know almost nothing about.
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| Posted 7/8/20 9:25 AM |
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SLPRunner
LIF Adult
Member since 12/13 1101 total posts
Name:
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Herd Immunity- article
Obviously it is hard to say what the vaccine will be like. If we are comparing it to the flu vaccine, then even if you still get the flu after getting the vaccine, it is typically a less severe illness and easier recovery. I have experienced this and still continue to get the flu shot myself and for my kids.
With COVID, even if the fatality rate is similar to the flu, there is still so much about it that we do not know. Doctors and scientists have been studying the flu for a long time and we know a lot about how it is transmitted and the course of the illness. With COVID, there are so many unknowns still. Maybe the fatality rate is similar, but what about the rate of complications? We don't see hospitals getting overwhelmed with flu cases every year?
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| Posted 7/8/20 9:41 AM |
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Pomegranate5
LIF Adult
Member since 2/11 4798 total posts
Name:
Pomegranate5
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Re: Herd Immunity- article
Posted by SLPRunner
Obviously it is hard to say what the vaccine will be like. If we are comparing it to the flu vaccine, then even if you still get the flu after getting the vaccine, it is typically a less severe illness and easier recovery. I have experienced this and still continue to get the flu shot myself and for my kids.
With COVID, even if the fatality rate is similar to the flu, there is still so much about it that we do not know. Doctors and scientists have been studying the flu for a long time and we know a lot about how it is transmitted and the course of the illness. With COVID, there are so many unknowns still. Maybe the fatality rate is similar, but what about the rate of complications? We don't see hospitals getting overwhelmed with flu cases every year?
I'm not against a vaccine for COVID, and I'm not saying my family will never get it. All I was pointing out is that some of the data used to support the author's POV is not 100% reliable or even accurate.
And I also think it's unfair to say that if you aren't going to jump at the first dose of a brand new vaccine you are "anti-science". It's a little contradictory (IMO) for scientists to tell us that they hardly know anything about this virus, but we should trust their vaccine without question. Isn't it possible that since we don't know the long terms affects of the virus, that the vaccine might come with some unexpected issues as well? Even dr's and scientists with the best of intentions are still wrong plenty of times.
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| Posted 7/8/20 10:02 AM |
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SecretlyTTC14
LIF Adult
Member since 12/13 1770 total posts
Name:
B
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Re: Herd Immunity- article
Posted by Pomegranate5
Posted by SLPRunner
Obviously it is hard to say what the vaccine will be like. If we are comparing it to the flu vaccine, then even if you still get the flu after getting the vaccine, it is typically a less severe illness and easier recovery. I have experienced this and still continue to get the flu shot myself and for my kids.
With COVID, even if the fatality rate is similar to the flu, there is still so much about it that we do not know. Doctors and scientists have been studying the flu for a long time and we know a lot about how it is transmitted and the course of the illness. With COVID, there are so many unknowns still. Maybe the fatality rate is similar, but what about the rate of complications? We don't see hospitals getting overwhelmed with flu cases every year?
I'm not against a vaccine for COVID, and I'm not saying my family will never get it. All I was pointing out is that some of the data used to support the author's POV is not 100% reliable or even accurate.
And I also think it's unfair to say that if you aren't going to jump at the first dose of a brand new vaccine you are "anti-science". It's a little contradictory (IMO) for scientists to tell us that they hardly know anything about this virus, but we should trust their vaccine without question. Isn't it possible that since we don't know the long terms affects of the virus, that the vaccine might come with some unexpected issues as well? Even dr's and scientists with the best of intentions are still wrong plenty of times.
I agree, I also want to add my concerns about the length of effectiveness. Natural antibody half-life to viruses is normally well over 10 years. Most natural immunity is life long. Vaccines don't come close to that unless you routinely get the boosters. So while natural immunity is best, getting some protection from vaccination (without risking actually getting the disease) is better than nothing.
If we are losing natural antibodies after only 3 months, what can be expected of a vaccine? Will it only last a month? 2 weeks? or 2 months? How many boosters will we need? There is still so much they don't know about this virus, I wouldn't be comfortable getting the vaccine until it's been proven safe (and actually effective) in long term studies.
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| Posted 7/8/20 12:16 PM |
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soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3
Member since 4/15 3635 total posts
Name:
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Re: Herd Immunity- article
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by Pomegranate5
Posted by SLPRunner
Obviously it is hard to say what the vaccine will be like. If we are comparing it to the flu vaccine, then even if you still get the flu after getting the vaccine, it is typically a less severe illness and easier recovery. I have experienced this and still continue to get the flu shot myself and for my kids.
With COVID, even if the fatality rate is similar to the flu, there is still so much about it that we do not know. Doctors and scientists have been studying the flu for a long time and we know a lot about how it is transmitted and the course of the illness. With COVID, there are so many unknowns still. Maybe the fatality rate is similar, but what about the rate of complications? We don't see hospitals getting overwhelmed with flu cases every year?
I'm not against a vaccine for COVID, and I'm not saying my family will never get it. All I was pointing out is that some of the data used to support the author's POV is not 100% reliable or even accurate.
And I also think it's unfair to say that if you aren't going to jump at the first dose of a brand new vaccine you are "anti-science". It's a little contradictory (IMO) for scientists to tell us that they hardly know anything about this virus, but we should trust their vaccine without question. Isn't it possible that since we don't know the long terms affects of the virus, that the vaccine might come with some unexpected issues as well? Even dr's and scientists with the best of intentions are still wrong plenty of times.
I agree, I also want to add my concerns about the length of effectiveness. Natural antibody half-life to viruses is normally well over 10 years. Most natural immunity is life long. Vaccines don't come close to that unless you routinely get the boosters. So while natural immunity is best, getting some protection from vaccination (without risking actually getting the disease) is better than nothing.
If we are losing natural antibodies after only 3 months, what can be expected of a vaccine? Will it only last a month? 2 weeks? or 2 months? How many boosters will we need? There is still so much they don't know about this virus, I wouldn't be comfortable getting the vaccine until it's been proven safe (and actually effective) in long term studies.
While reading this link, it was clear to me that Fauci meant boosters would be needed. He said the effectiveness of a covid vaccine would be no more than a yr which makes me think yearly (at minimum) boosters would be needed.
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| Posted 7/8/20 12:24 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Herd Immunity- article
Posted by soontobemommyof2
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by Pomegranate5
Posted by SLPRunner
Obviously it is hard to say what the vaccine will be like. If we are comparing it to the flu vaccine, then even if you still get the flu after getting the vaccine, it is typically a less severe illness and easier recovery. I have experienced this and still continue to get the flu shot myself and for my kids.
With COVID, even if the fatality rate is similar to the flu, there is still so much about it that we do not know. Doctors and scientists have been studying the flu for a long time and we know a lot about how it is transmitted and the course of the illness. With COVID, there are so many unknowns still. Maybe the fatality rate is similar, but what about the rate of complications? We don't see hospitals getting overwhelmed with flu cases every year?
I'm not against a vaccine for COVID, and I'm not saying my family will never get it. All I was pointing out is that some of the data used to support the author's POV is not 100% reliable or even accurate.
And I also think it's unfair to say that if you aren't going to jump at the first dose of a brand new vaccine you are "anti-science". It's a little contradictory (IMO) for scientists to tell us that they hardly know anything about this virus, but we should trust their vaccine without question. Isn't it possible that since we don't know the long terms affects of the virus, that the vaccine might come with some unexpected issues as well? Even dr's and scientists with the best of intentions are still wrong plenty of times.
I agree, I also want to add my concerns about the length of effectiveness. Natural antibody half-life to viruses is normally well over 10 years. Most natural immunity is life long. Vaccines don't come close to that unless you routinely get the boosters. So while natural immunity is best, getting some protection from vaccination (without risking actually getting the disease) is better than nothing.
If we are losing natural antibodies after only 3 months, what can be expected of a vaccine? Will it only last a month? 2 weeks? or 2 months? How many boosters will we need? There is still so much they don't know about this virus, I wouldn't be comfortable getting the vaccine until it's been proven safe (and actually effective) in long term studies.
While reading this link, it was clear to me that Fauci meant boosters would be needed. He said the effectiveness of a covid vaccine would be no more than a yr which makes me think yearly (at minimum) boosters would be needed.
Like the flu shot- you have to get it every year
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| Posted 7/8/20 12:53 PM |
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SecretlyTTC14
LIF Adult
Member since 12/13 1770 total posts
Name:
B
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Re: Herd Immunity- article
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by soontobemommyof2
Posted by SecretlyTTC14
Posted by Pomegranate5
Posted by SLPRunner
Obviously it is hard to say what the vaccine will be like. If we are comparing it to the flu vaccine, then even if you still get the flu after getting the vaccine, it is typically a less severe illness and easier recovery. I have experienced this and still continue to get the flu shot myself and for my kids.
With COVID, even if the fatality rate is similar to the flu, there is still so much about it that we do not know. Doctors and scientists have been studying the flu for a long time and we know a lot about how it is transmitted and the course of the illness. With COVID, there are so many unknowns still. Maybe the fatality rate is similar, but what about the rate of complications? We don't see hospitals getting overwhelmed with flu cases every year?
I'm not against a vaccine for COVID, and I'm not saying my family will never get it. All I was pointing out is that some of the data used to support the author's POV is not 100% reliable or even accurate.
And I also think it's unfair to say that if you aren't going to jump at the first dose of a brand new vaccine you are "anti-science". It's a little contradictory (IMO) for scientists to tell us that they hardly know anything about this virus, but we should trust their vaccine without question. Isn't it possible that since we don't know the long terms affects of the virus, that the vaccine might come with some unexpected issues as well? Even dr's and scientists with the best of intentions are still wrong plenty of times.
I agree, I also want to add my concerns about the length of effectiveness. Natural antibody half-life to viruses is normally well over 10 years. Most natural immunity is life long. Vaccines don't come close to that unless you routinely get the boosters. So while natural immunity is best, getting some protection from vaccination (without risking actually getting the disease) is better than nothing.
If we are losing natural antibodies after only 3 months, what can be expected of a vaccine? Will it only last a month? 2 weeks? or 2 months? How many boosters will we need? There is still so much they don't know about this virus, I wouldn't be comfortable getting the vaccine until it's been proven safe (and actually effective) in long term studies.
While reading this link, it was clear to me that Fauci meant boosters would be needed. He said the effectiveness of a covid vaccine would be no more than a yr which makes me think yearly (at minimum) boosters would be needed.
Like the flu shot- you have to get it every year
What I mean is, if natural immunity lasts less than 3 months, then historically speaking, the vaccine will not provide immunity that even lasts that long. I don't think there is 1 vaccine on the market that provides antibodies that last longer than natural immunity (especially without boosters). So what is the plan for this vaccine? We're going to give people boosters (at best) every 3 months?
The flu vaccine lasts longer than a year. The reason we get it yearly is because the virus mutates. So we need protection from the new strain. You're still protected against the old.
People that had corona virus antibodies are losing them in 3 months. That's crazy. That means you can get it again after 3 months. That's not even taking into consideration if it mutates. It really doesn't seem like an effective vaccine is even possible.
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| Posted 7/8/20 5:27 PM |
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Re: Herd Immunity- article
I think the vaccine will help limit transmission and the spread of the virus substantially. Even if it may require boosters or will be effective only for 3 months, it will hopefully result in fewer Americans (a) getting exposed, (b) contracting it, (c) spreading it. Anything that stops that chain will ultimately result in lower positive cases and infection rates, and ultimately lower hospitalizations and deaths.
It will take a few weeks for the vaccine to work its intended purpose but like polio, it took years for the world to see lower infection rates. What experts hope is a 2 fold response to defeating the virus: (1) a vaccine that can boost immune responses to those exposures and (2) a mutation that over time decreases the lethality of the virus.
We now know there is a "D" and "G" mutation which results in easier transmission but maintains same lethality.This is good news because it means you can get the virus but experience only mild symptoms or none at all. Until more time passes we won't have the data needed to analyze the trends.
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| Posted 7/9/20 8:18 AM |
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valentinesbaby
LIF Adult
Member since 2/20 900 total posts
Name:
Valentines
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Re: Herd Immunity- article
Posted by EclecticEsq10810
I think the vaccine will help limit transmission and the spread of the virus substantially. Even if it may require boosters or will be effective only for 3 months, it will hopefully result in fewer Americans (a) getting exposed, (b) contracting it, (c) spreading it. Anything that stops that chain will ultimately result in lower positive cases and infection rates, and ultimately lower hospitalizations and deaths.
It will take a few weeks for the vaccine to work its intended purpose but like polio, it took years for the world to see lower infection rates. What experts hope is a 2 fold response to defeating the virus: (1) a vaccine that can boost immune responses to those exposures and (2) a mutation that over time decreases the lethality of the virus.
We now know there is a "D" and "G" mutation which results in easier transmission but maintains same lethality.This is good news because it means you can get the virus but experience only mild symptoms or none at all. Until more time passes we won't have the data needed to analyze the trends.
Would you honestly take a vaccine that has not been tested out?
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| Posted 7/9/20 8:55 AM |
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Re: Herd Immunity- article
Posted by valentinesbaby
Posted by EclecticEsq10810
I think the vaccine will help limit transmission and the spread of the virus substantially. Even if it may require boosters or will be effective only for 3 months, it will hopefully result in fewer Americans (a) getting exposed, (b) contracting it, (c) spreading it. Anything that stops that chain will ultimately result in lower positive cases and infection rates, and ultimately lower hospitalizations and deaths.
It will take a few weeks for the vaccine to work its intended purpose but like polio, it took years for the world to see lower infection rates. What experts hope is a 2 fold response to defeating the virus: (1) a vaccine that can boost immune responses to those exposures and (2) a mutation that over time decreases the lethality of the virus.
We now know there is a "D" and "G" mutation which results in easier transmission but maintains same lethality.This is good news because it means you can get the virus but experience only mild symptoms or none at all. Until more time passes we won't have the data needed to analyze the trends.
Would you honestly take a vaccine that has not been tested out?
Yes, I would. Before a vaccine gets released to the public, it has to undergo rigorous testing and pass testing standards, so yes. If I saw politicians going ahead and taking it before they release it to the public, my trust level would be even higher. When the polio vaccine was released, Jonas Salk gave the vaccine to his kids to test it out. When they were fine, more people felt comfortable with it. As it stands now, China is already at Phase 3 of their clinical trials and my concern isnt whether I will want to take the vaccine but whether enough of it will be available for those who want it.
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| Posted 7/9/20 9:08 AM |
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