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jlm2008
LIF Adult
Member since 1/10 5092 total posts
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Re: Your opinion on infection rate vs death or hospitalization rate
Posted by OhBoyorGirl
Posted by Funkybutt
Posted by seaside
Posted by LastLightGlow
I don’t watch the news anymore so I have no idea what is being reported to the general public. We are seeing a lot of post-Covid complications now in hospitals. Kidney failure leading to dialysis, stroke, heart attack, dementia, lung scarring causing evaluations for lung transplant or home oxygen dependence, blindness, reactivation of the virus in specific parts of the body months later, ect. and this is only a few months out from initial infection. I want to mention that these weren’t all situations that the person would have developed these issues imminently anyways. We don’t even know the long term implications yet. So mortality may be low but long-term complications are arising that cause major disability and death later.
I've been hearing this too. We need to pay attention to this and to people like you who know so much more than we do.
Yup - I saw on the news where a guy was in recovery but had to relearn how to walk. I'm NOT interested in that being my life. Nor worrying about whether the next blood clot is going to cause a stroke, or that I'll be on oxygen in 10 years b/c my lungs are swiss cheese.
I think people are thinking it's either they get the sniffles or they die - but it's all the stuff in between that scares me more.
Exactly this. My DH had the virus. He is “recovered”. Ask him how he’s feeling, he will tell you “I feel fine!” As someone who has known him for 20+ years- sure, he’s “fine”, and for that I am truly grateful. But he is NOT the same. 41 years old, very physically fit, no underlying conditions. He was the sickest I have even seen him, and honestly- in pre-Covid times- I would’ve insisted on an ER visit for him bc of his “pneumonia” or whatever else I would’ve thought he had. But, he toughed it out at home, recovered at home. Scariest 2 weeks ever. And now, almost 4 months later- still coughing- like a smokers cough, voice still sounds groggy, still gets winded, still easily fatigued......he’s aged significantly from this, and yet “he’s fine”.
I know quite a number of people who have had Covid....only one is back to normal so far. Ironically he oldest one. My two cousins died, and the other people, had a bunch of co-workers who had it, are not good. Seemingly healthy, young, strong people , who may have gone back to work , but can barely make it through the day. Sorry, I'm doing my best to avoid that. But I live my life. My life just didn't revolve around going out to eat everyday or going out shopping I guess.
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Posted 8/11/20 8:25 PM  |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Your opinion on infection rate vs death or hospitalization rate
Posted by Pomegranate5
Posted by itsbabytime
I’m not sure this is really the only issue. We are dealing with a virus that we still know very very little about. They are starting to see that even in people and kids that were asymptomatic there is damage that may initially be symptomless. For just one example- google “COVID, student athletes and heart”. They are now seeing that both kids and adults that may have been asymptomatic and still are but are walking around with a ticking time bomb where if they exert themselves they could drop dead. So, since they are only now starting to screen for this and if u look at the high percentages from the studies that have been done so far - it paints a very different picture than what we are all Operating under. I have heard from our community doctors that it’s not just the heart but they are seeing a number of other health issues pop up In people and kids That have COVID antibodies. If you want another example look up the recent research and news on “neurological issues in both kids and adults post COVID.” So - to answer your question - I don’t think the concern is just as simple as you are making it out to be, and for the poster that said you can get it mild, recover and have no long term effects - you really don’t know that this is the case at this point!
Every article I found with that reference to the heart stated specifically that myocarditis is a known effect of any virus including the flu and colds. Any evidence that the risk is higher is based limited research and anecdotal evidence. (And no offense but in the past some posters have dismissed this sort of evidence)
Nell mentioned strep. Well I personally know two children who had undetected strep who needed major heart surgery...one will have a pacemaker for the rest of his life.
I’m not saying I’m not taking this seriously. I am. Everyone I know is. But it’s almost like everyone is acting like the world was safe before this. It wasn’t. We faced the exact same risks and dangers. This one just has a new name.
I am assuming you're not talking about our exchange because I thanked you for posting your links, said I would read them later, and didn't post again. I never dismissed you. But I'll respond anyway.
Out of the links you posted that day, which I did appreciate, only one directly addressed the issue and it was contained to one very specific iteration of the flu. I did learn some things about the flu that I didn't know before.
But here's the thing - ALL the research is limited because this is so new. No one knows the long term effects because it's just too soon.
And not to mention the flu has a vaccine, doesn't seem to spread the same way... etc. etc. All stuff we've (general "we") talked about before.
Covid-19 warrants more caution than the "old stuff" for a few reasons.
I think either "side" can find anecdotes to support what they want to say. I know a lot of people who have had it - it spread to 7 people in my school before we closed. Some are fine, some are not fine. One person who I care about a lot has me pretty worried.
I don't hear anyone saying not to live life. I'm very conservative with all this and even I have had a pretty normal summer other than no vacay.
Speaking just for myself, part of the frustration is that we are still having the same conversations about masks. I'm not talking about on here - that seems to have finally died down - but in society in general. Just tonight at my son's ball game none of the opposing coaches wore masks even though the rules specifically state they need to. And they're standing there hovering over and breathing on our 1st and 3rd basemen. I've kept quiet but I'm over it. Something was said and they still didn't wear them. I'm done. Photos were taken and they're getting reported. Other parents shared my frustrations and I think someone beat me to it.
My whole point is that there are still societal indicators that people aren't taking this seriously and it's maddening. This is what causes me to expect the worst.
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| Posted 8/11/20 9:22 PM |
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Re: Your opinion on infection rate vs death or hospitalization rate
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Message edited 8/23/2020 6:31:05 AM.
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| Posted 8/11/20 9:42 PM |
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Pomegranate5
LIF Adult
Member since 2/11 4798 total posts
Name:
Pomegranate5
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Re: Your opinion on infection rate vs death or hospitalization rate
Posted by JennP
Posted by Pomegranate5
Posted by itsbabytime
I’m not sure this is really the only issue. We are dealing with a virus that we still know very very little about. They are starting to see that even in people and kids that were asymptomatic there is damage that may initially be symptomless. For just one example- google “COVID, student athletes and heart”. They are now seeing that both kids and adults that may have been asymptomatic and still are but are walking around with a ticking time bomb where if they exert themselves they could drop dead. So, since they are only now starting to screen for this and if u look at the high percentages from the studies that have been done so far - it paints a very different picture than what we are all Operating under. I have heard from our community doctors that it’s not just the heart but they are seeing a number of other health issues pop up In people and kids That have COVID antibodies. If you want another example look up the recent research and news on “neurological issues in both kids and adults post COVID.” So - to answer your question - I don’t think the concern is just as simple as you are making it out to be, and for the poster that said you can get it mild, recover and have no long term effects - you really don’t know that this is the case at this point!
Every article I found with that reference to the heart stated specifically that myocarditis is a known effect of any virus including the flu and colds. Any evidence that the risk is higher is based limited research and anecdotal evidence. (And no offense but in the past some posters have dismissed this sort of evidence)
Nell mentioned strep. Well I personally know two children who had undetected strep who needed major heart surgery...one will have a pacemaker for the rest of his life.
I’m not saying I’m not taking this seriously. I am. Everyone I know is. But it’s almost like everyone is acting like the world was safe before this. It wasn’t. We faced the exact same risks and dangers. This one just has a new name.
I am assuming you're not talking about our exchange because I thanked you for posting your links, said I would read them later, and didn't post again. I never dismissed you. But I'll respond anyway.
Out of the links you posted that day, which I did appreciate, only one directly addressed the issue and it was contained to one very specific iteration of the flu. I did learn some things about the flu that I didn't know before.
But here's the thing - ALL the research is limited because this is so new. No one knows the long term effects because it's just too soon.
And not to mention the flu has a vaccine, doesn't seem to spread the same way... etc. etc. All stuff we've (general "we") talked about before.
Covid-19 warrants more caution than the "old stuff" for a few reasons.
I think either "side" can find anecdotes to support what they want to say. I know a lot of people who have had it - it spread to 7 people in my school before we closed. Some are fine, some are not fine. One person who I care about a lot has me pretty worried.
I don't hear anyone saying not to live life. I'm very conservative with all this and even I have had a pretty normal summer other than no vacay.
Speaking just for myself, part of the frustration is that we are still having the same conversations about masks. I'm not talking about on here - that seems to have finally died down - but in society in general. Just tonight at my son's ball game none of the opposing coaches wore masks even though the rules specifically state they need to. And they're standing there hovering over and breathing on our 1st and 3rd basemen. I've kept quiet but I'm over it. Something was said and they still didn't wear them. I'm done. Photos were taken and they're getting reported. Other parents shared my frustrations and I think someone beat me to it.
My whole point is that there are still societal indicators that people aren't taking this seriously and it's maddening. This is what causes me to expect the worst.
I honestly wasn’t talking about you. I had forgotten about that interaction. I have seen posters link articles and be dismissed because they weren’t peer reviewed. If that was you then I guess I was talking about you, but I promise it was not a targeted statement.
I completely agree that more research needs to done. And it is. But if we’re going to rely on anecdotal evidence to worry people, we should also rely on it to calm people. There is plenty of “limited research studies“ and “anecdotal evidence“ to support the fact that kids under 10 do not catch it easily and do not spread it as easily. There are countless daycares and camps who have had no outbreaks. I saw a small blip about that in the news. But one school has 8 kids contract covid and it’s all over the news and every channel has experts saying close down schools.
For those of us who ARE taking it seriously, but are also trying to get the FULL picture, all of this is frustrating.
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| Posted 8/12/20 7:39 AM |
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LittleDiva
LIF Adult
Member since 9/11 1284 total posts
Name:
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Re: Your opinion on infection rate vs death or hospitalization rate
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by LastLightGlow
I don’t watch the news anymore so I have no idea what is being reported to the general public. We are seeing a lot of post-Covid complications now in hospitals. Kidney failure leading to dialysis, stroke, heart attack, dementia, lung scarring causing evaluations for lung transplant or home oxygen dependence, blindness, reactivation of the virus in specific parts of the body months later, ect. and this is only a few months out from initial infection. I want to mention that these weren’t all situations that the person would have developed these issues imminently anyways. We don’t even know the long term implications yet. So mortality may be low but long-term complications are arising that cause major disability and death later.
Unfortunately people are incapable of understanding all of this. THIS is what scares most logical people about the virus. That is why it is so ridiculous and completely uninformed when peoples rallying cry is " oh but only 1% will die". I'm not worried about dying, I'm worried about the life long complications, which many are worse than death in my opinion. So I may recover, but might as well be dead.
Playing devils advocate here....we also don’t know long term effects of children wearing masks for extended periods of time. We don’t know long term effects of this vaccine that is coming out. We don’t know long term effects of all these disinfectants that are being used.
I can go crazy Extreme here and question these temperature guns that have been pointed at me countless times lol imagine years from now we find out they cause something. You never know.
There are so many unknown long term effects when you think about all the changes that have taken place since covid.
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| Posted 8/12/20 8:22 AM |
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seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
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Re: Your opinion on infection rate vs death or hospitalization rate
Although I have been "called out" in some pretty crude, base ways for, among other things, claiming to be some kind of science expert (??), the truth is that all I have done with respect to decisions that involve analyzing date and various rates is to listen to the voices of experts.
Here is a perfect example of the analysis of one of many such experts with an incredibly informed voice and how he is reading rates and data to protect his family:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/12/health/covid-kids-school-gupta-essay/index.html
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| Posted 8/12/20 9:32 AM |
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Pomegranate5
LIF Adult
Member since 2/11 4798 total posts
Name:
Pomegranate5
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Re: Your opinion on infection rate vs death or hospitalization rate
Posted by seaside
Although I have been "called out" in some pretty crude, base ways for, among other things, claiming to be some kind of science expert (??), the truth is that all I have done with respect to decisions that involve analyzing date and various rates is to listen to the voices of experts.
Here is a perfect example of the analysis of one of many such experts with an incredibly informed voice and how he is reading rates and data to protect his family:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/12/health/covid-kids-school-gupta-essay/index.html
Great article. He lives in ATLANTA. If I lived in Atlanta I would not be sending my kids to school. I'm sure that goes for many of the parents on this website. But we live on Long Island.
This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. We can only listen to the "experts" but we pick and choose which experts.
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| Posted 8/12/20 9:57 AM |
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seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
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Re: Your opinion on infection rate vs death or hospitalization rate
Posted by Pomegranate5
Posted by seaside
Although I have been "called out" in some pretty crude, base ways for, among other things, claiming to be some kind of science expert (??), the truth is that all I have done with respect to decisions that involve analyzing date and various rates is to listen to the voices of experts.
Here is a perfect example of the analysis of one of many such experts with an incredibly informed voice and how he is reading rates and data to protect his family:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/12/health/covid-kids-school-gupta-essay/index.html
Great article. He lives in ATLANTA. If I lived in Atlanta I would not be sending my kids to school. I'm sure that goes for many of the parents on this website. But we live on Long Island.
This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. We can only listen to the "experts" but we pick and choose which experts.
I think I fully agree with you. I don't necessarily think that no one--anywhere in the country--can have any live school. I was answering the question about forming opinions and interpreting data re:death rates, infection rates, etc.
My point was that lay people's feelings and opinions on how to read data are drowning out informed opinions like his when it comes to data analyses and decision making.
I wasn't saying that everyone needed to get to his outcome at all. I think we agree. It is a great article.
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| Posted 8/12/20 10:38 AM |
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Funkybutt
LIF Adult
Member since 4/15 3049 total posts
Name:
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Re: Your opinion on infection rate vs death or hospitalization rate
Posted by Pomegranate5
Great article. He lives in ATLANTA. If I lived in Atlanta I would not be sending my kids to school. I'm sure that goes for many of the parents on this website. But we live on Long Island.
Not that I want anyone to get sick, but the science side of me is curious to see what will happen on LI when schools are open. Is it going to spread like wildfire like it did in GA, or will it be contained?
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| Posted 8/12/20 2:11 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Your opinion on infection rate vs death or hospitalization rate
Posted by Funkybutt
Posted by Pomegranate5
Great article. He lives in ATLANTA. If I lived in Atlanta I would not be sending my kids to school. I'm sure that goes for many of the parents on this website. But we live on Long Island.
Not that I want anyone to get sick, but the science side of me is curious to see what will happen on LI when schools are open. Is it going to spread like wildfire like it did in GA, or will it be contained?
I think it all comes down to the infection rate. The infection rate on Long Island is very low right now. So less people have it, less people to spread it.
When GA went back to school their infection rate was high so it follows suit that it spread more.
Look at indoor dining. they are saying that caused spikes in other states. But it didn't here on Long Island. Why? Lower infection rates
Message edited 8/12/2020 2:17:59 PM.
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| Posted 8/12/20 2:17 PM |
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ali120206
2 Boys
Member since 7/06 17792 total posts
Name:
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Re: Your opinion on infection rate vs death or hospitalization rate
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by Funkybutt
Posted by Pomegranate5
Great article. He lives in ATLANTA. If I lived in Atlanta I would not be sending my kids to school. I'm sure that goes for many of the parents on this website. But we live on Long Island.
Not that I want anyone to get sick, but the science side of me is curious to see what will happen on LI when schools are open. Is it going to spread like wildfire like it did in GA, or will it be contained?
I think it all comes down to the infection rate. The infection rate on Long Island is very low right now. So less people have it, less people to spread it.
When GA went back to school their infection rate was high so it follows suit that it spread more.
Look at indoor dining. they are saying that caused spikes in other states. But it didn't here on Long Island. Why? Lower infection rates
I think it could also be that our infection rate was so high once upon a time where it wasn't in the other states..
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| Posted 8/12/20 2:47 PM |
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LittleDiva
LIF Adult
Member since 9/11 1284 total posts
Name:
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Re: Your opinion on infection rate vs death or hospitalization rate
Posted by Funkybutt
Posted by Pomegranate5
Great article. He lives in ATLANTA. If I lived in Atlanta I would not be sending my kids to school. I'm sure that goes for many of the parents on this website. But we live on Long Island.
Not that I want anyone to get sick, but the science side of me is curious to see what will happen on LI when schools are open. Is it going to spread like wildfire like it did in GA, or will it be contained?
Some good/interesting news, my friends who finished up in person summer school had zero cases. As did many camps, some which did not require kids to wear masks. Fingers crossed school works out and people follow protocols and keep their kids home when sick!
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| Posted 8/12/20 2:48 PM |
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valentinesbaby
LIF Adult
Member since 2/20 900 total posts
Name:
Valentines
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Re: Your opinion on infection rate vs death or hospitalization rate
Posted by LittleDiva
Posted by Funkybutt
Posted by Pomegranate5
Great article. He lives in ATLANTA. If I lived in Atlanta I would not be sending my kids to school. I'm sure that goes for many of the parents on this website. But we live on Long Island.
Not that I want anyone to get sick, but the science side of me is curious to see what will happen on LI when schools are open. Is it going to spread like wildfire like it did in GA, or will it be contained?
Some good/interesting news, my friends who finished up in person summer school had zero cases. As did many camps, some which did not require kids to wear masks. Fingers crossed school works out and people follow protocols and keep their kids home when sick!
So has daycares that never closed. This is why I don’t believe the news.
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| Posted 8/12/20 2:52 PM |
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Re: Your opinion on infection rate vs death or hospitalization rate
Posted by seaside
Posted by Funkybutt
Posted by seaside
Posted by LastLightGlow
I don’t watch the news anymore so I have no idea what is being reported to the general public. We are seeing a lot of post-Covid complications now in hospitals. Kidney failure leading to dialysis, stroke, heart attack, dementia, lung scarring causing evaluations for lung transplant or home oxygen dependence, blindness, reactivation of the virus in specific parts of the body months later, ect. and this is only a few months out from initial infection. I want to mention that these weren’t all situations that the person would have developed these issues imminently anyways. We don’t even know the long term implications yet. So mortality may be low but long-term complications are arising that cause major disability and death later.
I've been hearing this too. We need to pay attention to this and to people like you who know so much more than we do.
Yup - I saw on the news where a guy was in recovery but had to relearn how to walk. I'm NOT interested in that being my life. Nor worrying about whether the next blood clot is going to cause a stroke, or that I'll be on oxygen in 10 years b/c my lungs are swiss cheese.
I think people are thinking it's either they get the sniffles or they die - but it's all the stuff in between that scares me more.
I am not sure that most people are incapable of understanding, though. I think many people do understand, but are in denial. That's why you see so many people online lashing out and raging. They're angry at reality and their own inability to handle it.
It's easier to engage in magical thinking--sniffles or death, and then develop logical fallacies from there. It's convenient and fuels their world views and desires, but it's magical thinking.
This is good perspective; thank you. I am so tired of the anger and the fighting but it is an important reminder that it is coming from a place of fear.
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| Posted 8/12/20 3:42 PM |
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LIRascal
drama. daily.
Member since 3/11 7287 total posts
Name:
Michelle
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Your opinion on infection rate vs death or hospitalization rate
I had an AHA moment last night. If something happens where a student is infected at a school and we have to go to "virtual instruction", quarantining a school district population is not the same as stay-at-home orders for an entire region. I don't think it's going to be followed as closely as it was in March, and people will still go out "because". It's already happening. Just because it's summer. Just because it's Phase IV, just because...
People are treating this as a temporary incident but the long-term ramifications are real and they are there.
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| Posted 8/12/20 4:18 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Your opinion on infection rate vs death or hospitalization rate
Posted by LIRascal
I had an AHA moment last night. If something happens where a student is infected at a school and we have to go to "virtual instruction", quarantining a school district population is not the same as stay-at-home orders for an entire region. I don't think it's going to be followed as closely as it was in March, and people will still go out "because". It's already happening. Just because it's summer. Just because it's Phase IV, just because...
People are treating this as a temporary incident but the long-term ramifications are real and they are there.
People are going out now not just "because" it's summer or what phase we are in.
The stay at home orders have been lifted.
There are no more stay home orders to be following.
We are allowed to go out to things that are open and to gather in groups of 50 or less per the Governor.
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| Posted 8/12/20 4:23 PM |
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ali120206
2 Boys
Member since 7/06 17792 total posts
Name:
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Re: Your opinion on infection rate vs death or hospitalization rate
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by LIRascal
I had an AHA moment last night. If something happens where a student is infected at a school and we have to go to "virtual instruction", quarantining a school district population is not the same as stay-at-home orders for an entire region. I don't think it's going to be followed as closely as it was in March, and people will still go out "because". It's already happening. Just because it's summer. Just because it's Phase IV, just because...
People are treating this as a temporary incident but the long-term ramifications are real and they are there.
People are going out now not just "because" it's summer or what phase we are in.
The stay at home orders have been lifted.
There are no more stay home orders to be following.
We are allowed to go out to things that are open and to gather in groups of 50 or less per the Governor.
I think she is saying that the people that are supposed to quarantine because they were exposed aren’t necessarily going to stay home like people did in the beginning when there wasn’t anywhere to go and it was more rampant.
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| Posted 8/12/20 8:26 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Your opinion on infection rate vs death or hospitalization rate
Posted by ali120206
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by LIRascal
I had an AHA moment last night. If something happens where a student is infected at a school and we have to go to "virtual instruction", quarantining a school district population is not the same as stay-at-home orders for an entire region. I don't think it's going to be followed as closely as it was in March, and people will still go out "because". It's already happening. Just because it's summer. Just because it's Phase IV, just because...
People are treating this as a temporary incident but the long-term ramifications are real and they are there.
People are going out now not just "because" it's summer or what phase we are in.
The stay at home orders have been lifted.
There are no more stay home orders to be following.
We are allowed to go out to things that are open and to gather in groups of 50 or less per the Governor.
I think she is saying that the people that are supposed to quarantine because they were exposed aren’t necessarily going to stay home like people did in the beginning when there wasn’t anywhere to go and it was more rampant.
Ah ok. Yeah probably
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| Posted 8/12/20 8:33 PM |
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soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3
Member since 4/15 3635 total posts
Name:
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Re: Your opinion on infection rate vs death or hospitalization rate
Posted by LittleDiva
Posted by Funkybutt
Posted by Pomegranate5
Great article. He lives in ATLANTA. If I lived in Atlanta I would not be sending my kids to school. I'm sure that goes for many of the parents on this website. But we live on Long Island.
Not that I want anyone to get sick, but the science side of me is curious to see what will happen on LI when schools are open. Is it going to spread like wildfire like it did in GA, or will it be contained?
Some good/interesting news, my friends who finished up in person summer school had zero cases. As did many camps, some which did not require kids to wear masks. Fingers crossed school works out and people follow protocols and keep their kids home when sick!
As some in this forum would say...nah, that doesn’t count, it’s just anecdotal evidence. Or my favorite...how dare those parents send their kids to camp without a mask! So selfish of them! 
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| Posted 8/12/20 11:55 PM |
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