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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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My problem with Joe Torre
Just saw the box score of the Yankee game last night. I turned the game off after the 8th inning last night.
How does Joe Torre NOT pitch Mariano in the bottom of the 9th with a tied game? Scott Proctor? Give me a break.
What the hell is Joe waiting for? The postseason?
Its a tied game... the opposing team has a chance to win... you put your BEST pitcher out there!
Rivera didn't pitch the 1st game. He was WELL rested to pitch 2 innings if he had to. What if the Yanks trail the A's in the third game tomorrow? Mo wont be used then either!
Its moves (or lack of moves) like this that continually show how overrated Torre is.
If Willie failed to bring Wagner in the 9th in this same situation... every Met fan would be calling for his head.
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Posted 4/5/06 11:21 AM  |
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FeliciaDP
♥
Member since 5/05 18599 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: My problem with Joe Torre
Scary enough, I agree with you on ALL counts, Pill 
I'm not a huge Torre fan to be honest (yes that's sacrilegious talk amongst Yankee fans  )
My Dad, brother and I have said time and time again he doesn't know how to handle his pitchers in particular.... and again he proved this last night. Man, has he not learned ANYTHING over the long winter break 
While I wasn't up to see the end of the game (glad I wasn't actually), reading the end result this morning made me sick 
Torre has many strengths, but I tend to agree with your statement that he is overrated as a manager. A lot of times in the past when people have referred to certain managerial decisions he made as "brilliant", often in actuality it was a lot of sheer good luck that won him games (and those were the days when he was backed with a much better pitching staff!)
With an iffy pitching staff at best this year, I really am worried about this aspect of his managing abilities more than anything  NO DOUBT he should have brought Mo into the game last night - what the HELL was he waiting for
Message edited 4/5/2006 11:33:43 AM.
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| Posted 4/5/06 11:30 AM |
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QuoteTheRaven424
22 Months?!!!!
Member since 5/05 13659 total posts
Name:
And If That Isn't A True Blue Miracle
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Re: My problem with Joe Torre
sadly, my opinion on torre has always been that when you surround a homeless man with tuxedos and caviar and limos, he becomes rich.
He's a good manager, but the success of the Yanks came more from the talent of the team and less from him, IMO.
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| Posted 4/5/06 11:32 AM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: My problem with Joe Torre
Torre has done this with Mariano MANY times before.
And DARE can I say that I also believe Mariano is overrated?
WHY? Look at this:
I believe Torre does this (not bring Mariano in) to "protect his image and confidence". If he brings Mo in... and Mo gives up a run... automatic loss.
Whenever he brings Mo in with the Yankee lead... the other team has to struggle and try much harder to score. Pressure is on them. Even if Mo gives up a run... Yanks still have a chance to win in the bottom.
But in this situation... Mo doesn't have that "luxury". Torre is protecting him.
Hell... if I was Mo... i would DEMAND that I come in during these situations. I really don't see him doing this.
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| Posted 4/5/06 11:34 AM |
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QuoteTheRaven424
22 Months?!!!!
Member since 5/05 13659 total posts
Name:
And If That Isn't A True Blue Miracle
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Re: My problem with Joe Torre
i half agree with you pill...wouldn't you want mo to come in once the yanks got the lead back in order to seal the deal?
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| Posted 4/5/06 11:35 AM |
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FeliciaDP
♥
Member since 5/05 18599 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: My problem with Joe Torre
Posted by DjPiLL
WHY? Look at this:
I believe Torre does this (not bring Mariano in) to "protect his image and confidence". If he brings Mo in... and Mo gives up a run... automatic loss.
Whenever he brings Mo in with the Yankee lead... the other team has to struggle and try much harder to score. Pressure is on them. Even if Mo gives up a run... Yanks still have a chance to win in the bottom.
But in this situation... Mo doesn't have that "luxury". Torre is protecting him.
Hell... if I was Mo... i would DEMAND that I come in during these situations. I really don't see him doing this.
Rich, where did you get that article (excerpt) from? Is that an article?
Very interesting indeed - again, I agree with a LOT of it 
edited to add: Only part I don't necessarily "agree" with is Mo DEMANDING to come in during those situations - it's not about Mo's personality (which might be part of the issue) its that he shouldn't HAVE to demand to be brought in!!
Message edited 4/5/2006 11:37:47 AM.
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| Posted 4/5/06 11:36 AM |
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QuoteTheRaven424
22 Months?!!!!
Member since 5/05 13659 total posts
Name:
And If That Isn't A True Blue Miracle
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Re: My problem with Joe Torre
the only thing is, mo is the closer, which means his best use is when they have the lead.
ok, so you bring him in last night in a tie game and you burn him out.
Tonight, they have a 3 run lead and he can't pitch.
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| Posted 4/5/06 11:38 AM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: My problem with Joe Torre
Posted by FeliciaDP
Rich, where did you get that article (excerpt) from?
Very interesting indeed - again, I agree with a LOT of it
That wasn't an article... that was my opinion. 
Rivera is definitely "protected" by Torre. If Torre brings Mo in more in these situation... Mo doesn't look as "unbeatable".
Grated... Mo is one of the BEST out there. But his numbers IMO are a little skewed because of this.
Look at Gagne's 80+ save streak which spanned two seasons. It wasn't like he never gave up a run. Hell he even LOST a few games. He just never blew a save because unlike Torre... the LA manager DID bring Gagne in during these tied games and Gagne did give up some runs and took some losses. He just never blew a save during that span.
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| Posted 4/5/06 11:38 AM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: My problem with Joe Torre
Posted by CaptainCharisma424
i half agree with you pill...wouldn't you want mo to come in once the yanks got the lead back in order to seal the deal?
NO NO NO. You bring Mo in the 9th to protect the game. You have Murderers Row on the Yanks. Bring Mo in the 9th to extend the game 1 inning... the Yanks should score runs in the 10th. Then take your chances in the 10th with either Rivera a second inning... or another reliver that HAS the luxury of the lead.
How many post season games recently did the Yanks lose to the Sox and other teams that had Rivera sitting in the dugout doing NOTHING.
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| Posted 4/5/06 11:39 AM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: My problem with Joe Torre
Posted by CaptainCharisma424
Tonight, they have a 3 run lead and he can't pitch.
This is exactly the reason why I said there is NO guarantee the Yanks even HAVE the lead tonight.
The guarantee last night was... they had a tied game where the Yanks could win with one swing of the bat. BRING HIM IN!
I will LMAO if the Yanks give up an early lead tonight and Mo continues to sit in the dugout.
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| Posted 4/5/06 11:41 AM |
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Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A
Member since 7/05 32475 total posts
Name:
Susan
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Re: My problem with Joe Torre
We have a powerful lineup-there was no reason for Mo to sit. No Reason. I love Torre and I don't agree with this decision.
Did anyone hear him on the post game show?
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| Posted 4/5/06 12:57 PM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: My problem with Joe Torre
Posted by Blu-ize
We have a powerful lineup-there was no reason for Mo to sit. No Reason. I love Torre and I don't agree with this decision.
Did anyone hear him on the post game show?
No... what did he say?
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| Posted 4/5/06 1:04 PM |
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Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A
Member since 7/05 32475 total posts
Name:
Susan
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Re: My problem with Joe Torre
Posted by DjPiLL
Posted by Blu-ize
We have a powerful lineup-there was no reason for Mo to sit. No Reason. I love Torre and I don't agree with this decision.
Did anyone hear him on the post game show?
No... what did he say?
No-I was hoping someone did and could tell me!
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| Posted 4/5/06 1:16 PM |
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Ren
LIF Infant
Member since 11/05 203 total posts
Name:
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Re: My problem with Joe Torre
I don't see the need for Rivara in a tie game this early in the season. If I were Torre, I would have kept Farnsworth in the game. He only had 10 pitches for 2 outs in the 8th.
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| Posted 4/5/06 2:27 PM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: My problem with Joe Torre
Posted by Ren
I don't see the need for Rivara in a tie game this early in the season. If I were Torre, I would have kept Farnsworth in the game. He only had 10 pitches for 2 outs in the 8th.
That may have worked (with Farnsworth).
But remember... EVERY game counts. Mo hasn't picked a single inning this season. Using him last night was the correct move.
What if the Yanks lose the lead again tonight... Mo sits some more.
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| Posted 4/5/06 3:34 PM |
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Ren
LIF Infant
Member since 11/05 203 total posts
Name:
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Re: My problem with Joe Torre
I understand that every game counts...but besides the playoffs, this is not the way Torre uses Rivera. Rivera is the closer. Not too many managers use their closer in a tie game on the road.
As much as I don't like the Yankees, it's still early in the season. Don't foget there was mention of Rivera winning the Cy Young at the end of last season. How did his season start? 2 blown saves to the Red Sox.
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| Posted 4/5/06 3:42 PM |
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Kierasmom
I love my kids
Member since 5/05 2885 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: My problem with Joe Torre
Joe never uses his closer in a tie game on the road. Because it's not a save situation and he does try to limit Mo to an inning during the regular season if possible. In the 2nd game of the season, I have no problem with it. He doesn't want to use him too much right now. Personally, I have no problems with that.
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| Posted 4/5/06 9:23 PM |
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DjPiLL
Member since 5/05 3664 total posts
Name:
Richard
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Re: My problem with Joe Torre
My case and point:
Yanks lose again last night. Rivera continues to sit.
Frank Robinson (HIGHLY regarded Washington Manager) uses his closer Chad Codero in the same exact situation... tie game on the road bottom of the 9th.
Instead of the Nats blowing it in the 9th... Codero pitches a scoreless 9th to send the same to extra innings. Nats score 5 runs in the 10th... and another pitcher holds onto the game.
Not for nothing... but IMO Torre isn't even in Robinson's LEAGUE when it comes to managing. Robinson is widely considered as one of the BEST.
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| Posted 4/6/06 9:38 AM |
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