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mka06
LIF Adult
Member since 8/06 1079 total posts
Name:
Melis
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Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
From Associated Press. Discuss...
Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
23 hours ago
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ijhWY4xbOaT6L788T-6b9FgI2dKAD9393ULG3
WASHINGTON (AP) — Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden says that paying higher taxes is the patriotic thing to do for wealthier Americans.
Biden says he and Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama want to "take money and put it back in the pocket of middle-class people."
Under the Democrats' economic plan, people earning more than $250,000 a year would pay more in taxes while those earning less — the vast majority of American taxpayers — would receive a tax cut.
Biden told ABC's "Good Morning America" on Thursday that, in his words, "it's time to be patriotic ... time to jump in, time to be part of the deal, time to help get America out of the rut."
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Posted 9/19/08 7:31 AM  |
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Jessica511
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Member since 4/08 248 total posts
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
Yeah... but I guess being patriotic applies only to those who make $250K or more...ridiculous!
Everyone in the country should be "patriotic", but I don't think paying higher taxes is the way to show it.
Personally, I show my patriotism by volunteering at a local soldiers support organization and giving to charities that I DEEM worthy causes. I don't need any politician (especially Biden who's own charitable contributions over the last few years are embarrassingly despicable) to tell me that by paying more taxes, I am being "patriotic"...
Give me a break!
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| Posted 9/19/08 7:39 AM |
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mka06
LIF Adult
Member since 8/06 1079 total posts
Name:
Melis
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
i'll start. i think that we already have a tiered tax system where people in higher brackets pay more.
i don't have a household income of over 250, so raising it even higher would not directly affect me. but, i still don't agree with it.
I think people work hard for their money and success financially shouldn't be exploited by the government. i feel like it is an easy solution for politicians to throw out bc it doesn't affect the vast majority of voters and lots of ppl vote based on their own pocketbook. i don't agree with the concept though.
that being said, i do think people have a humanitarian responsibliity to give back if they are in the position to be able to do so financially. but, i think they should be able to choose how to do that and where to give money.
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| Posted 9/19/08 7:41 AM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
nice spin 
I saw this yesterday and couldn't believe it 
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| Posted 9/19/08 7:44 AM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
this borders on socialism
what the incentive to become successful?
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| Posted 9/19/08 7:46 AM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
Not cool.
For those who live in cities or close to them, earning close to $250k does not qualify a couple as wealthy by any means, and will become a significant hardship for many.
The cap should be higher - much higher.
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| Posted 9/19/08 7:48 AM |
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Jessica511
LIF Infant
Member since 4/08 248 total posts
Name:
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
Just for some food for thought...Who should be showing more patriotism?
"Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden has come under criticism in recent weeks for his charitable giving — or, more specifically, the lack of it.
The Delaware senator and his wife, Jill, showed annual earnings of more than $200,000 and sometimes $300,000 between 1998 and 2007. And they gave relatively very little of it away. In 2007, their most generous year, the Bidens gave $995 to charity. In 1999, their charitable donations added up to $120.
The editor of TaxProf Blog, University of Cincinnati law professor Paul Caron, said Biden’s lack of charitable giving ”is jarring” — that a couple making over $200,000 a year would give so little to charity — between 0.06 and 0.31percent of their income.
Figures show Biden has a poor showing even compared to the average American. Independent Sector, a nonpartisan coalition of approximately 600 charities, foundations and corporate philanthropy programs, reports that 89 percent of American households contribute to charity, with an average contribution of $1,620, or 3.1 percent of income."
Message edited 9/19/2008 7:55:45 AM.
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| Posted 9/19/08 7:49 AM |
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mka06
LIF Adult
Member since 8/06 1079 total posts
Name:
Melis
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
Posted by Bxgell2
For those who live in cities or close to them, earning close to $250k does not qualify a couple as wealthy by any means, and will become a significant hardship for many.
i've always thought there needed to be some calculation to take cost of living into consideration with taxes. the cost of living, price of housing, and taxes are so much higher in and around NY and in other urban areas, like DC, than other places. Making 50K, 100K, 200K, etc... means very different things in different parts of the country, yet it is just that total number that dictates what taxes you pay. 
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| Posted 9/19/08 7:54 AM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
biden's comment = insert foot in mouth icon
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| Posted 9/19/08 8:22 AM |
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Kara
Now Zagat Rated!
Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
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They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
I think it's patriotic to help our fellow Americans. I give more money to charity in a MONTH than Biden averages a year.
Biden averages $369 in charitable contributions per year
I gave more to charity in the past year than the Bidens have in the past decade and I probably pay about the same amount in taxes as they do. So I really don't want HIM telling me to be more patriotic and give the government more of my money to help out my fellow Americans. I'm sure he's a nice guy. I'm sure he volunteers. But don't give me the patriotic guilt trip. I don't need lessons in patriotism from Biden.
He's free to do with his money whatever he wants. I'd love to know if he voluntarily pays more in taxes every year (as Americans are free to do). If he really thinks it's patriotic to pay more in taxes, I think he needs a history lesson...
I get that taxes are necessary, but a patriotic guilt trip is ridiculous. My DH and I WILL be hit hard by the proposed tax increases -- and we are far from "wealthy" as Obama and Biden love to claim.
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| Posted 9/19/08 9:26 AM |
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leighdvm
My golden boys!
Member since 3/06 4419 total posts
Name:
Michele
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
I cannot STAND this position.....People who are successful are punished? (Not that I make that salary, mind you!  ). Still think it is so, so wrong....
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| Posted 9/19/08 10:39 AM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
dumb comment...perhaps taken a bit out of context.
I kinda get what he's saying..but whatever  he may need a muzzle.
ETA: I am not sure that it's a position of successful people being punished...but I understand where he's coming from.
the middle class is stretched to beyond capacity (as evidenced by the economy) so those that can presumably do more (ie those with more money) should. it's not about punishment, it's about stepping up (not sure about partriotism per se lol...this is not a Rosie the Riveter situation)
I think perhaps the cap should be a bit higher...but I do like where they are going with this.
Message edited 9/19/2008 11:01:23 AM.
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| Posted 9/19/08 10:58 AM |
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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
Member since 5/05 9731 total posts
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Dina
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
It's clearly shown that proportionately, people with lower incomes pay a higher proportion of taxes than those with higher incomes.. just look at the study warren buffet did regarding his staff. He didn't use any loop holes or tax shelters-, just did his taxes via IRS rules.. Warren Buffet is the 3rd richest man in the World (or at least was at last tax time). He pays income tax of 17.7% on his income. His secretary pays income tax on 30% of her income. Now.. tell me, if Warren Buffet has to pay the same 30% on his income taxes, do you REALLY think that he's going to stay home and not continue to work? Do you think that because he is rich, Buffet should pay less of a proportion of taxes on his income? I don't think so- and either does Warren Buffett!
The point is this: putting more money into the pockets of the middle class will boost the economy. It's bolstering up the middle class that will mean more money for everyone- even the rich. If the middle class can't spend, then this whole economy is doomed- and that is how it is looking more and more, considering that the recent growth in middle class spending wasn't from actual income increases, but borrowing.
CLEARLY trickle down economics- which is essence, is what it is when the highest earners pay a lower proportion of income tax than the lower earners, DOES NOT WORK.
The disparity in income between the richest and the poorest is growing and the middle class is being squeezed out. Whether you think, at 250k a year (and kudos for anyone reading this if you make that type of money- but I know of no one in my family, or my immediate circle of friends that does that well- and they all still live on LI and one on the Upper West Side) you should pay less taxes than those making 50k and struggling between buying oil and buying food, well I'm sorry- I just don't agree with you.
And I certainly do not think that those making 250k a year or more will simply "stop trying to be successful" should their tax rates go up. That is absurd.
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| Posted 9/19/08 11:03 AM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
Posted by Sassyz75
And I certainly do not think that those making 250k a year or more will simply "stop trying to be successful" should their tax rates go up. That is absurd.
yeah, that is making me laugh.
each increment of income is taxed the same....so we all pay the same amount on our first 50k, and then 75 k, etc.
my husband is an acct. he does taxes for a living. he is not telling me to NOT make more money by any means b/c of additional taxes I'd rather be taxed a bit higher making 250 than stay the same making 50, I tell you that.
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| Posted 9/19/08 11:07 AM |
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nov04libride
big brother <3
Member since 5/05 14672 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
Posted by Ophelia
dumb comment...perhaps taken a bit out of context.
I kinda get what he's saying..but whatever he may need a muzzle.
ETA: I am not sure that it's a position of successful people being punished...but I understand where he's coming from.
the middle class is stretched to beyond capacity (as evidenced by the economy) so those that can presumably do more (ie those with more money) should. it's not about punishment, it's about stepping up (not sure about partriotism per se lol...this is not a Rosie the Riveter situation)
I think perhaps the cap should be a bit higher...but I do like where they are going with this.
I agree. I like it in theory, but he should have presented it better.
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| Posted 9/19/08 11:13 AM |
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DDB336
LIF Toddler
Member since 8/05 421 total posts
Name:
Diana
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
Here is an interesting articule. People who make more are already being taxed more. I don't agree with Biden's statement, it seems more like socialism to me.
Their Fair Share
Message edited 9/19/2008 11:16:44 AM.
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| Posted 9/19/08 11:16 AM |
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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
Member since 5/05 9731 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
exactly.
for the past 3 years, because we do not own a home, my husband and I have to pay out more money on our taxes. Do you think that I sit and home and try and figure out how to make LESS money? It's flawed logic.
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| Posted 9/19/08 11:16 AM |
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mrsej
The cutest!
Member since 1/07 2495 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
I definitely don't think that people are going to stop making more money b/c of higher taxes, but $250,000 is not wealthy in NY - considering the cost of living, that amount of money doesn't go as far as it would in Iowa or Nebraska. I read that article about Biden's uncharitable contributions - a little mind boggling. Obama/Biden's view on taxes is what is preventing my whole family from voting for him.
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| Posted 9/19/08 11:50 AM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
Posted by Kara
I think it's patriotic to help our fellow Americans. I give more money to charity in a MONTH than Biden averages a year.
Biden averages $369 in charitable contributions per year
I gave more to charity in the past year than the Bidens have in the past decade and I probably pay about the same amount in taxes as they do. So I really don't want HIM telling me to be more patriotic and give the government more of my money to help out my fellow Americans. I'm sure he's a nice guy. I'm sure he volunteers. But don't give me the patriotic guilt trip. I don't need lessons in patriotism from Biden.
He's free to do with his money whatever he wants. I'd love to know if he voluntarily pays more in taxes every year (as Americans are free to do). If he really thinks it's patriotic to pay more in taxes, I think he needs a history lesson...
I get that taxes are necessary, but a patriotic guilt trip is ridiculous. My DH and I WILL be hit hard by the proposed tax increases -- and we are far from "wealthy" as Obama and Biden love to claim.
ITA! 
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| Posted 9/19/08 11:58 AM |
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Kara
Now Zagat Rated!
Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
Name:
They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
Posted by Sassyz75
It's clearly shown that proportionately, people with lower incomes pay a higher proportion of taxes than those with higher incomes.. just look at the study warren buffet did regarding his staff. He didn't use any loop holes or tax shelters-, just did his taxes via IRS rules.. Warren Buffet is the 3rd richest man in the World (or at least was at last tax time). He pays income tax of 17.7% on his income. His secretary pays income tax on 30% of her income. Now.. tell me, if Warren Buffet has to pay the same 30% on his income taxes, do you REALLY think that he's going to stay home and not continue to work? Do you think that because he is rich, Buffet should pay less of a proportion of taxes on his income? I don't think so- and either does Warren Buffett!
The point is this: putting more money into the pockets of the middle class will boost the economy. It's bolstering up the middle class that will mean more money for everyone- even the rich. If the middle class can't spend, then this whole economy is doomed- and that is how it is looking more and more, considering that the recent growth in middle class spending wasn't from actual income increases, but borrowing.
CLEARLY trickle down economics- which is essence, is what it is when the highest earners pay a lower proportion of income tax than the lower earners, DOES NOT WORK.
The disparity in income between the richest and the poorest is growing and the middle class is being squeezed out. Whether you think, at 250k a year (and kudos for anyone reading this if you make that type of money- but I know of no one in my family, or my immediate circle of friends that does that well- and they all still live on LI and one on the Upper West Side) you should pay less taxes than those making 50k and struggling between buying oil and buying food, well I'm sorry- I just don't agree with you.
And I certainly do not think that those making 250k a year or more will simply "stop trying to be successful" should their tax rates go up. That is absurd.
I've commented on the Warren Buffet study before. The study deals with %age of income going to taxes. Warren Buffet STILL pays (in terms of $s) way, way, way than the middle class and poor - and most of the wealthy. The REASON his personal tax liability is lower is because most of his net worth is tied to ownership in corporations (who pay their own taxes) and investments (on which he pays the capital gains tax). These same investment vehicles (albeit on a smaller scale) are available to EVERYONE and you don't need to make six (or seven or eight) figures to avail yourself of these opportunties. These investments such as this are a HUGE part of what keeps our economy going.
And FTR, people making $250,000 are already paying more taxes than those making $50,000 a year. No one's saying they shouldn't. Even with flat tax, they'd pay more.
As for Biden's comment -- You can see it for yourself here: Link
Message edited 9/19/2008 1:13:46 PM.
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| Posted 9/19/08 1:13 PM |
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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
Member since 5/05 9731 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
Posted by Kara
Posted by Sassyz75
It's clearly shown that proportionately, people with lower incomes pay a higher proportion of taxes than those with higher incomes.. just look at the study warren buffet did regarding his staff. He didn't use any loop holes or tax shelters-, just did his taxes via IRS rules.. Warren Buffet is the 3rd richest man in the World (or at least was at last tax time). He pays income tax of 17.7% on his income. His secretary pays income tax on 30% of her income. Now.. tell me, if Warren Buffet has to pay the same 30% on his income taxes, do you REALLY think that he's going to stay home and not continue to work? Do you think that because he is rich, Buffet should pay less of a proportion of taxes on his income? I don't think so- and either does Warren Buffett!
The point is this: putting more money into the pockets of the middle class will boost the economy. It's bolstering up the middle class that will mean more money for everyone- even the rich. If the middle class can't spend, then this whole economy is doomed- and that is how it is looking more and more, considering that the recent growth in middle class spending wasn't from actual income increases, but borrowing.
CLEARLY trickle down economics- which is essence, is what it is when the highest earners pay a lower proportion of income tax than the lower earners, DOES NOT WORK.
The disparity in income between the richest and the poorest is growing and the middle class is being squeezed out. Whether you think, at 250k a year (and kudos for anyone reading this if you make that type of money- but I know of no one in my family, or my immediate circle of friends that does that well- and they all still live on LI and one on the Upper West Side) you should pay less taxes than those making 50k and struggling between buying oil and buying food, well I'm sorry- I just don't agree with you.
And I certainly do not think that those making 250k a year or more will simply "stop trying to be successful" should their tax rates go up. That is absurd.
I've commented on the Warren Buffet study before. The study deals with %age of income going to taxes. Warren Buffet STILL pays (in terms of $s) way, way, way than the middle class and poor - and most of the wealthy. The REASON his personal tax liability is lower is because most of his net worth is tied to ownership in corporations (who pay their own taxes) and investments (on which he pays the capital gains tax). These same investment vehicles (albeit on a smaller scale) are available to EVERYONE and you don't need to make six (or seven or eight) figures to avail yourself of these opportunties. These investments such as this are a HUGE part of what keeps our economy going.
And FTR, people making $250,000 are already paying more taxes than those making $50,000 a year. No one's saying they shouldn't. Even with flat tax, they'd pay more.
As for Biden's comment -- You can see it for yourself here: Link
well, right- that's what the different between the dollar amount and the proportionate amount to income...
what is a fact is that people who make less money pay a higher proportion of their total income in income tax.. no kidding that a person that makes 50k won't pay more than a 250k person- that isn't possible. But the 50k person pays a higher proportion of their income than the 250k person.
edited to say: Buffets calculations aside, it seems that the US tax code favors wealth over wage- as apparently there is higher tax liability for earning a regular wage, which most Americans do.
Message edited 9/19/2008 1:37:27 PM.
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| Posted 9/19/08 1:22 PM |
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Chica
Cuteness!
Member since 10/06 3013 total posts
Name:
Erica
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
Posted by mka06
Posted by Bxgell2
For those who live in cities or close to them, earning close to $250k does not qualify a couple as wealthy by any means, and will become a significant hardship for many.
i've always thought there needed to be some calculation to take cost of living into consideration with taxes. the cost of living, price of housing, and taxes are so much higher in and around NY and in other urban areas, like DC, than other places. Making 50K, 100K, 200K, etc... means very different things in different parts of the country, yet it is just that total number that dictates what taxes you pay.
Not to mention the fact that those hitting the $250K mark may have considerable debt (mortgages, car payments, student loans, etc.). IMO, $250K really qualifies as middle class these days (at least in metropolitan areas).
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| Posted 9/19/08 1:41 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
Posted by Chica
Posted by mka06
Posted by Bxgell2
For those who live in cities or close to them, earning close to $250k does not qualify a couple as wealthy by any means, and will become a significant hardship for many.
i've always thought there needed to be some calculation to take cost of living into consideration with taxes. the cost of living, price of housing, and taxes are so much higher in and around NY and in other urban areas, like DC, than other places. Making 50K, 100K, 200K, etc... means very different things in different parts of the country, yet it is just that total number that dictates what taxes you pay.
Not to mention the fact that those hitting the $250K mark may have considerable debt (mortgages, car payments, student loans, etc.). IMO, $250K really qualifies as middle class these days (at least in metropolitan areas).
I think we did this on another thread...and the median household income in NYC was no where NEAR 250 k.
and most of the stuff you list come with deductions.
to me it looks like both sides are arguing over two policy's that in the end may be ineffectual.
the republican method does NOT work...as evidence by the economy (and like I posted the other day, every major financial collapse had a republican as president but I digress)
but maybe Obama's cap IS too low for the metro area??? who knows.
sometimes I think our economic policy is beyond repair.
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| Posted 9/19/08 1:47 PM |
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DandN
Twins are here!
Member since 3/06 3597 total posts
Name:
Deirdre
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
I absolutely LOVE Joe Biden - but he can be dangerous near a microphone. I get what he's saying - but if I were a McCain advisor, I'd be hitting replay on this soundbite a lot.
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| Posted 9/19/08 2:42 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act
Posted by Sassyz75
Whether you think, at 250k a year (and kudos for anyone reading this if you make that type of money- but I know of no one in my family, or my immediate circle of friends that does that well- and they all still live on LI and one on the Upper West Side) you should pay less taxes than those making 50k and struggling between buying oil and buying food, well I'm sorry- I just don't agree with you.
I hear what you are saying, but by the same token, in metro areas, $250k does not necessarily mean a couple is wealthy and can afford an extra tax on top of the higher tax they are already paying. I really do think the cap is just way too low. Think about it, there are plenty of people just skirting the line, who are making that income because they paid $$$ for medical school, law school, etc. Yes, that usually qualifies you for a higher income, but you also usually have to pay off ridiculous loans, making the disparity less significant than it appears.
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| Posted 9/19/08 3:00 PM |
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