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RomeyT
LIF Infant
Member since 1/21 355 total posts
Name:
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How is unity going....
...and what else can we do as a small, online community to build unity?
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Posted 2/4/21 11:16 PM  |
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RainyDay
LIF Adult
Member since 6/15 3989 total posts
Name:
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How is unity going....
People need to stop being assholes
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| Posted 2/5/21 1:39 AM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: How is unity going....
Life has been so quiet since Trump left. There is next to no fighting anymore on social media. Trump supporters have moved past the constant whining about the election, they aren't even railing on Biden. Everyone online and IRL feels less contentious. I think it helps that Biden isn't always in your face, I feel like we've had a return to how things use to be before Trump. We might not all agree but everyone is mostly quiet again. It's been wonderful.
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| Posted 2/5/21 12:11 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9509 total posts
Name:
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Re: How is unity going....
Things seem exactly the same to me as they did three weeks ago.... Not much has changed in my life. I'm sure things are quieter on social media but to be honest I scroll right passed people that post political things on facebook. Never really understood the point of those posts. Do people really think that they are influencing anyone? But that's another topic altogether....
I do think that things will go back to "normal" now that Trump is out though. Hopefully in the next election we can find someone that's not on deaths door.
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| Posted 2/5/21 3:08 PM |
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seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
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Re: How is unity going....
We can do it through showing decency, civility, and compassion in our communications, IRL and on here.
We can also do it by recognizing that there really aren't absolute "sides." We may be split on political issues, but people on the same "side" of one issue may disagree on another, and there are things that people have in common even though they are often on different "sides" of issues.
Unity doesn't mean the end of disagreement. It means people stop tearing others down. It means we attack ideas--not people. It also means we keep open minds about others' ideas and stop seeing learning and changing position as a sign of weakness. And stop seeing nastiness as a show of strength--it's not.
We also have a lot in common. No one wants to be shamed or demeaned. People reach out for connection, online and IRL, and because they want to be heard. Life is hard. We are all making the best choices we can under the circumstances--whether they're parenting choices, professional choices, or choosing where we stand on issues.
Message edited 2/5/2021 3:40:50 PM.
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| Posted 2/5/21 3:23 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9509 total posts
Name:
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Re: How is unity going....
Posted by seaside
We can do it through showing decency, civility, and compassion in our communications, IRL and on here.
We can also do it by recognizing that there really aren't absolute "sides." We may be split on political issues, but people on the same "side" of one issue may disagree on another, and there are things that people have in common even though they are often on different "sides" of issues.
Unity doesn't mean the end of disagreement. It means people stop tearing others down. It means we attack ideas--not people. It also means we keep open minds about others' ideas and stop seeing learning and changing position as a sign of weakness. And stop seeing nastiness as a show of strength--it's not.
We also have a lot in common. No one wants to be shamed or demeaned. People reach out for connection, online and IRL, and because they want to be heard. Life is hard. We are all making the best choices we can under the circumstances--whether they're parenting choices, professional choices, or choosing where we stand on issues.
I agree with you but I think the problem is that everyone wants to be heard but no one wants to listen. So much so that they don't even bother reading or listening to what others have to say and they just take snippets of them and misinterpret them. I know I am guilty of this myself sometimes however, I am a very middle of the road type of person so I typically listen to both sides and then form an opinion.
I have found in the past 4 years what has happened is that everyone has become so set in their opinions that they won't even pause to consider the other side. And I find this on both sides. I don't know where we have gone as a society as a whole - family not speaking to family because they aren't on the same page politically? Friends no longer associating with people? It's a sad sad world we living. Closing your eyes to that just because your political party is on top is not great either because those 70 million people that still voted for Trump didn't just disappear and pretending they did won't get anyone anywhere either.
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| Posted 2/5/21 4:13 PM |
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seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
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Re: How is unity going....
Posted by lululu
Posted by seaside
We can do it through showing decency, civility, and compassion in our communications, IRL and on here.
We can also do it by recognizing that there really aren't absolute "sides." We may be split on political issues, but people on the same "side" of one issue may disagree on another, and there are things that people have in common even though they are often on different "sides" of issues.
Unity doesn't mean the end of disagreement. It means people stop tearing others down. It means we attack ideas--not people. It also means we keep open minds about others' ideas and stop seeing learning and changing position as a sign of weakness. And stop seeing nastiness as a show of strength--it's not.
We also have a lot in common. No one wants to be shamed or demeaned. People reach out for connection, online and IRL, and because they want to be heard. Life is hard. We are all making the best choices we can under the circumstances--whether they're parenting choices, professional choices, or choosing where we stand on issues.
I agree with you but I think the problem is that everyone wants to be heard but no one wants to listen. So much so that they don't even bother reading or listening to what others have to say and they just take snippets of them and misinterpret them. I know I am guilty of this myself sometimes however, I am a very middle of the road type of person so I typically listen to both sides and then form an opinion.
I have found in the past 4 years what has happened is that everyone has become so set in their opinions that they won't even pause to consider the other side. And I find this on both sides. I don't know where we have gone as a society as a whole - family not speaking to family because they aren't on the same page politically? Friends no longer associating with people? It's a sad sad world we living. Closing your eyes to that just because your political party is on top is not great either because those 70 million people that still voted for Trump didn't just disappear and pretending they did won't get anyone anywhere either.
I wasn't too focused on Trump or Trump voters when I wrote that.
I think everywhere you find sane, intelligent people, you'll find people who want to listen and who know better than to deliberately twist or selectively quote others' words.
But you're right that there are too many people so eager to have a fight that they start in on someone who hasn't actually said what they heard or wanted to hear. We need less of that.
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| Posted 2/5/21 5:53 PM |
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MarathonKnitter
HAPPY
Member since 2/07 17374 total posts
Name:
EMBRACING CHANGE
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Re: How is unity going....
i agree with a lot that's been said.
personally, my efforts are in putting time and money behind charities and efforts i support.
i'm also learning a little more so i can be a bit more articulate about my thoughts on subjects... not to fight, but to better explain why i believe in something.
sadly, there are still a lot of nut jobs out there who are waiting for 2024 so trump can run again. i know this because i'm related to them.   and yes, they still believe in q-anon.
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| Posted 2/7/21 5:57 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9509 total posts
Name:
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Re: How is unity going....
Posted by MarathonKnitter
i agree with a lot that's been said.
personally, my efforts are in putting time and money behind charities and efforts i support.
i'm also learning a little more so i can be a bit more articulate about my thoughts on subjects... not to fight, but to better explain why i believe in something.
sadly, there are still a lot of nut jobs out there who are waiting for 2024 so trump can run again. i know this because i'm related to them. and yes, they still believe in q-anon.
I think doing specific things like supporting charities that you believe in is one of the best ways.
I also think what you are saying about learning more so that you can articulate your thoughts better is a great idea. I think I am going to do the same. I never thought about learning for that purpose but you have a great point. It is much easier to disagree with someone if you can articulate exactly why you disagree in a well formulated manner.
I also think that keeping an open mind is key. If you shut people out because you make blanket assumptions like - anyone who voted for Trump must be a racist and I therefore can never associate with someone like that - then you are potentially not seeing that person's full picture or understanding any of the validity of their arguments. People even go so far as to say that they can no longer be friends with people who are Republican anymore. I know many Republicans who didn't even vote for Trump. Everything is not black and white but I think the easy thing to do is to make blanket assumptions and just stick with them. Digging a little deeper is much harder to do.
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| Posted 2/8/21 8:48 PM |
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Naturalmama
Love my boys!!
Member since 1/12 3548 total posts
Name:
Christine
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How is unity going....
I recommend listening to Dax Shepherd's podcast episode 285 on understanding and empathy. Those things are a good place to start.
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| Posted 2/8/21 9:45 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: How is unity going....
Posted by lululu
Posted by MarathonKnitter
i agree with a lot that's been said.
personally, my efforts are in putting time and money behind charities and efforts i support.
i'm also learning a little more so i can be a bit more articulate about my thoughts on subjects... not to fight, but to better explain why i believe in something.
sadly, there are still a lot of nut jobs out there who are waiting for 2024 so trump can run again. i know this because i'm related to them. and yes, they still believe in q-anon.
If you shut people out because you make blanket assumptions like - anyone who voted for Trump must be a racist and I therefore can never associate with someone like that - then you are potentially not seeing that person's full picture or understanding any of the validity of their arguments. People even go so far as to say that they can no longer be friends with people who are Republican anymore.
And many, many people think the opposite.
There are millions of people who live for "owning the libs." They do it at great personal expense - they'll give up their own health care, a fair wage, anything and everything. It's absurd, but it's called the Southern Strategy and was very specifically cultivated in response to the civil rights legislation of the 60s. Sadly, it was quite successful for some time but fortunately I think the tide is turning.
To actually answer the question, I think we should make genuine efforts to be civil to one another and also take care to make sure we are communicating in good faith from a shared set of facts.
Charity is obviously great and necessary and I make plenty of donations myself. When I do, I try to pair it with some type of political action to change the situation that caused the need for charity in the first place.
Charity usually means government failed. I read this article several years ago (wish I could find it again) about how it serves as a buffer because the more people donate, the more government can ignore certain problems.
We still need charity because we need to help people with immediate problems but it's helpful to simultaneously work for the change we need to keep those problems from happening in the first place. So if I donate to a gofundme for cancer I'll pair that with a gotv effort for a candidate that supports medicare for all so people don't have to go bankrupt over medical bills
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| Posted 2/8/21 9:57 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9509 total posts
Name:
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Re: How is unity going....
Posted by JennP
Posted by lululu
Posted by MarathonKnitter
i agree with a lot that's been said.
personally, my efforts are in putting time and money behind charities and efforts i support.
i'm also learning a little more so i can be a bit more articulate about my thoughts on subjects... not to fight, but to better explain why i believe in something.
sadly, there are still a lot of nut jobs out there who are waiting for 2024 so trump can run again. i know this because i'm related to them. and yes, they still believe in q-anon.
If you shut people out because you make blanket assumptions like - anyone who voted for Trump must be a racist and I therefore can never associate with someone like that - then you are potentially not seeing that person's full picture or understanding any of the validity of their arguments. People even go so far as to say that they can no longer be friends with people who are Republican anymore.
And many, many people think the opposite.
There are millions of people who live for "owning the libs." They do it at great personal expense - they'll give up their own health care, a fair wage, anything and everything. It's absurd, but it's called the Southern Strategy and was very specifically cultivated in response to the civil rights legislation of the 60s. Sadly, it was quite successful for some time but fortunately I think the tide is turning.
To actually answer the question, I think we should make genuine efforts to be civil to one another and also take care to make sure we are communicating in good faith from a shared set of facts.
Charity is obviously great and necessary and I make plenty of donations myself. When I do, I try to pair it with some type of political action to change the situation that caused the need for charity in the first place.
Charity usually means government failed. I read this article several years ago (wish I could find it again) about how it serves as a buffer because the more people donate, the more government can ignore certain problems.
We still need charity because we need to help people with immediate problems but it's helpful to simultaneously work for the change we need to keep those problems from happening in the first place. So if I donate to a gofundme for cancer I'll pair that with a gotv effort for a candidate that supports medicare for all so people don't have to go bankrupt over medical bills
Yes I gave the republican example but I can give just as many examples on the other side of republicans doing the same thing.
As far as the charity goes I don't necessarily agree because I think that there is a disparity of wealth in this country and charity enables people with the means to shift wealth to organizations and/or people in need. I don't necessarily think that it signals a failure in government. We are a capitalist society, not a socialist one, so we rely on people's intrinsic nature to do good in certain circumstances.
ETA: Maybe we are talking about charity in a different way because I am referring to organizations and not specific needs like what would be on a gofundme page. I mean making donations to something like The American Cancer Society.
Message edited 2/8/2021 11:11:29 PM.
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| Posted 2/8/21 11:08 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: How is unity going....
Posted by lululu
Posted by JennP
Posted by lululu
Posted by MarathonKnitter
i agree with a lot that's been said.
personally, my efforts are in putting time and money behind charities and efforts i support.
i'm also learning a little more so i can be a bit more articulate about my thoughts on subjects... not to fight, but to better explain why i believe in something.
sadly, there are still a lot of nut jobs out there who are waiting for 2024 so trump can run again. i know this because i'm related to them. and yes, they still believe in q-anon.
If you shut people out because you make blanket assumptions like - anyone who voted for Trump must be a racist and I therefore can never associate with someone like that - then you are potentially not seeing that person's full picture or understanding any of the validity of their arguments. People even go so far as to say that they can no longer be friends with people who are Republican anymore.
And many, many people think the opposite.
There are millions of people who live for "owning the libs." They do it at great personal expense - they'll give up their own health care, a fair wage, anything and everything. It's absurd, but it's called the Southern Strategy and was very specifically cultivated in response to the civil rights legislation of the 60s. Sadly, it was quite successful for some time but fortunately I think the tide is turning.
To actually answer the question, I think we should make genuine efforts to be civil to one another and also take care to make sure we are communicating in good faith from a shared set of facts.
Charity is obviously great and necessary and I make plenty of donations myself. When I do, I try to pair it with some type of political action to change the situation that caused the need for charity in the first place.
Charity usually means government failed. I read this article several years ago (wish I could find it again) about how it serves as a buffer because the more people donate, the more government can ignore certain problems.
We still need charity because we need to help people with immediate problems but it's helpful to simultaneously work for the change we need to keep those problems from happening in the first place. So if I donate to a gofundme for cancer I'll pair that with a gotv effort for a candidate that supports medicare for all so people don't have to go bankrupt over medical bills
Yes I gave the republican example but I can give just as many examples on the other side of republicans doing the same thing.
As far as the charity goes I don't necessarily agree because I think that there is a disparity of wealth in this country and charity enables people with the means to shift wealth to organizations and/or people in need. I don't necessarily think that it signals a failure in government. We are a capitalist society, not a socialist one, so we rely on people's intrinsic nature to do good in certain circumstances.
ETA: Maybe we are talking about charity in a different way because I am referring to organizations and not specific needs like what would be on a gofundme page. I mean making donations to something like The American Cancer Society.
I suppose I'm referring to both, but certainly more so private endeavors are indicative of a problem than organizations like the ACS that also disseminate information and have other functions.
Those words "capitalist" and "socialistic" get tossed around a lot but the truth is that every successful capitalistic country also has a substantial safety net. It is not "one or the other." There is a spectrum, as there should be.
I argue that we, as a society, rely far too much on "people's intrinsic nature to do good" which is why we are falling behind other countries in many ways relating to quality of life.
Our government needs to do less to funnel wealth upwards because it's clear that trickle down economics doesn't work.
I'm not saying a handout for everything. I'm talking basic stuff - affordable healthcare, a reasonably comfortable retirement, affordable college, and short term emergency help for people who need it. Some people fight so hard for the basics that other countries provide and it shows so clearly in the different quality of life.
It's shameful and something I'll never stop working to change.
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| Posted 2/8/21 11:46 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9509 total posts
Name:
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Re: How is unity going....
Posted by JennP
I'm not saying a handout for everything. I'm talking basic stuff - affordable healthcare, a reasonably comfortable retirement, affordable college, and short term emergency help for people who need it. Some people fight so hard for the basics that other countries provide and it shows so clearly in the different quality of life.
It's shameful and something I'll never stop working to change.
Yes I completely agree with you - there are definitely basic things that we fail to provide people. Affordable healthcare is my biggest gripe but it has so much to do with the insurance industry and how it is set up. We have some of the best healthcare in the world, if only everyone could afford it. That's why I hate it when they refer to it as Healthcare reform. It should really be just "Insurance Reform."
College costs have become so out of hand that I really think as a society we need to reevaluate the entire concept. It does not make sense for a teacher to pay $300k for an education to get a job in a market that is only going to pay $35k/year. And then have Masters Degree requirements on top of a college degree. There are a ton of examples of this.
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| Posted 2/9/21 12:07 AM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: How is unity going....
Posted by lululu
Posted by JennP
I'm not saying a handout for everything. I'm talking basic stuff - affordable healthcare, a reasonably comfortable retirement, affordable college, and short term emergency help for people who need it. Some people fight so hard for the basics that other countries provide and it shows so clearly in the different quality of life.
It's shameful and something I'll never stop working to change.
Yes I completely agree with you - there are definitely basic things that we fail to provide people. Affordable healthcare is my biggest gripe but it has so much to do with the insurance industry and how it is set up. We have some of the best healthcare in the world, if only everyone could afford it. That's why I hate it when they refer to it as Healthcare reform. It should really be just "Insurance Reform."
College costs have become so out of hand that I really think as a society we need to reevaluate the entire concept. It does not make sense for a teacher to pay $300k for an education to get a job in a market that is only going to pay $35k/year. And then have Masters Degree requirements on top of a college degree. There are a ton of examples of this.
I pretty much agree with all of this, although I'll add that I'm not on board with anyone pursuing any career having to start their life with a mountain of debt. Especially for undergrad.
I can see some debt as more appropriate for high paying specialized graduate/post graduate work - doctors, lawyers, etc. - but for teachers, social workers, accountants, the "managerial" class, IT people etc. or just people of middle to maybe upper middle class prospects? No.
I'm not saying everyone necessarily goes to their first choice school but state schools can't take everyone so something has to give. But we did that in the other thread already lol.
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| Posted 2/9/21 1:35 AM |
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ali120206
2 Boys
Member since 7/06 17790 total posts
Name:
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Re: How is unity going....
Posted by lululu
Posted by JennP
I'm not saying a handout for everything. I'm talking basic stuff - affordable healthcare, a reasonably comfortable retirement, affordable college, and short term emergency help for people who need it. Some people fight so hard for the basics that other countries provide and it shows so clearly in the different quality of life.
It's shameful and something I'll never stop working to change.
Yes I completely agree with you - there are definitely basic things that we fail to provide people. Affordable healthcare is my biggest gripe but it has so much to do with the insurance industry and how it is set up. We have some of the best healthcare in the world, if only everyone could afford it. That's why I hate it when they refer to it as Healthcare reform. It should really be just "Insurance Reform."
College costs have become so out of hand that I really think as a society we need to reevaluate the entire concept. It does not make sense for a teacher to pay $300k for an education to get a job in a market that is only going to pay $35k/year. And then have Masters Degree requirements on top of a college degree. There are a ton of examples of this.
I don't think it's with the insurance industry, I worked in insurance for almost 20 years, including health (until Obamacare made it impossible to operate), and the costs of healthcare are astronomical, leading to the cost of insurance being astronomical... Although on the other hand - due to the culture of suing doctors for everything, their insurance costs are quite high.
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| Posted 2/10/21 4:26 PM |
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