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chris605
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Member since 5/05 3205 total posts
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HR people
Can you be fired for refusing to sign a PIP (progress improvement program) - Its kind of like being written up - There is an employee who was PIP'D (written up) for various reason and they refused to sign it - Can she be FIRED for that ???
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Posted 5/22/08 8:18 AM  |
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leighla
Support Cancer Research
Member since 5/05 16353 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: HR people
Technically if she's being told to sign it and she refuses it can be construed as insubordination.
But it doesn't matter - NY is at-will employer and you can be fired for anything.
It is not, however, a good practice.
At our company if you don't sign you are allowed to attach a rebuttal or we make a note saying "employee refused to sign".
We wouldn't fire them, but we would certainly not look upon it favorably.
Why is she refusing?
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| Posted 5/22/08 8:22 AM |
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chris605
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Member since 5/05 3205 total posts
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Re: HR people
Posted by leighla
Technically if she's being told to sign it and she refuses it can be construed as insubordination.
But it doesn't matter - NY is at-will employer and you can be fired for anything.
It is not, however, a good practice.
At our company if you don't sign you are allowed to attach a rebuttal or we make a note saying "employee refused to sign".
We wouldn't fire them, but we would certainly not look upon it favorably.
Why is she refusing?
Honestly because that is how she is - I believe she is refusing to sign it because the last person in her dept. to refuse was let go two weeks later - Let me add that this person should have been let go YEARS ago - But manager after manager always thought it was easier to ignore the issues/problems then it was to actaully address them... This time someone FINALLY took action and is trying to do something about it - and now she refused to sign it...
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| Posted 5/22/08 8:25 AM |
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leighla
Support Cancer Research
Member since 5/05 16353 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: HR people
We always let the employees know that refusing to sign it doesn't make it go away and failure to comply with the actions in the letter will result in termination.
Honestly though, most employees who refuse to sign usually wind up quitting anyway.
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| Posted 5/22/08 8:28 AM |
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suvenR
designer mutt
Member since 5/05 4239 total posts
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Re: HR people
I always enjoyed the "to sign or not to sign" debate.
I always look at it from the other perspective: Can a person be FORCED to sign something against their will?
I think we would all agree that no- you can't be forced to sign something against your will.
So, in this instance, I'd document that the PIP was explained to the employee (and note who the witnesses were). After a few weeks, if there aren't any improvements, then I'd terminate due to poor work performance. That's a much better thing for an employer to do than fire someone for not signing something, IMO.
I think an employee would have a LOT of recourse if s/he were fired for refusing to put their signature on something.
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| Posted 5/22/08 9:14 AM |
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chris605
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Member since 5/05 3205 total posts
Name:
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Re: HR people
Posted by suvenR
I always enjoyed the "to sign or not to sign" debate.
I always look at it from the other perspective: Can a person be FORCED to sign something against their will?
I think we would all agree that no- you can't be forced to sign something against your will.
So, in this instance, I'd document that the PIP was explained to the employee (and note who the witnesses were). After a few weeks, if there aren't any improvements, then I'd terminate due to poor work performance. That's a much better thing for an employer to do than fire someone for not signing something, IMO.
I think an employee would have a LOT of recourse if s/he were fired for refusing to put their signature on something.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE RESPONSE...
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| Posted 5/22/08 9:16 AM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: HR people
Posted by suvenR
I always enjoyed the "to sign or not to sign" debate.
I always look at it from the other perspective: Can a person be FORCED to sign something against their will?
I think we would all agree that no- you can't be forced to sign something against your will.
So, in this instance, I'd document that the PIP was explained to the employee (and note who the witnesses were). After a few weeks, if there aren't any improvements, then I'd terminate due to poor work performance. That's a much better thing for an employer to do than fire someone for not signing something, IMO.
I think an employee would have a LOT of recourse if s/he were fired for refusing to put their signature on something.
ITA. You can document it then make a file on the employee to justify firing her.
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| Posted 5/22/08 9:57 AM |
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Ang-Rich
Beyond Compare
Member since 5/05 17988 total posts
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Re: HR people
We comment that the employee was given a copy and the document was reviewed with them...that they refused to sign.
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| Posted 5/22/08 10:00 AM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
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Re: HR people
Posted by Ang-Rich
We comment that the employee was given a copy and the document was reviewed with them...that they refused to sign.
We do the same & then continue to document performance until it's enough to terminate and/or mitigate any potential lawsuit.
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| Posted 5/22/08 2:46 PM |
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