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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14021 total posts
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I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
WTH is wrong with these people...children? Really? So very, very sad. Link...be warned...it's a horrible story
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Posted 5/12/10 9:05 AM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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SusiBee
. . . . .
Member since 3/09 8268 total posts
Name:
S
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
China does not recognize or treat mental illness in its population.
The children are an easy target for revenge on society.
It is absolutely horrific that these innocent children are being killed.
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| Posted 5/12/10 9:13 AM |
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Cheeks24
Living a dream
Member since 1/08 8589 total posts
Name:
Cheeks
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
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| Posted 5/12/10 9:24 AM |
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Celt
~~~~~~~~~~
Member since 4/08 7758 total posts
Name:
colette
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
So horrible More info from AOL news...:
"As many as 173 million Chinese adults suffer from mental disorders, and the vast majority of them have never received care, according to joint research by Columbia University and Chinese psychiatrists, published in the Lancet medical journal last summer.
Experts have also said such assaults can happen in clusters, with the first incident triggering copycat crimes. It's unclear whether that was the case in today's attack.
The series of school attacks began on March 23, when a 42-year-old man killed eight children in a knife attack on an elementary school in southern China. He was executed by firing squad last month.
...Such anxiety is heightened in China, where most families have only one child because of the government's strict birth control policy."
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| Posted 5/12/10 9:30 AM |
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LoriH
There's no place like home
Member since 8/07 4110 total posts
Name:
Lori
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
This is incredibly disturbing and sick but honestly does not suprise me much. I recently took a course on Modern China and the awful acts of violence, treatment of the people and the utter disregard for nature and human life are outrageous. The fact that the US has such close ties with this country dispite their treatment of people and the natural world in general is disgusting. There was even a period of time in the 50's where the government encouraged murder for cannibalistic purposes.
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| Posted 5/12/10 10:02 AM |
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annoyedTTCer
LIF Adult
Member since 4/09 3272 total posts
Name:
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
Posted by LoriH
This is incredibly disturbing and sick but honestly does not suprise me much. I recently took a course on Modern China and the awful acts of violence, treatment of the people and the utter disregard for nature and human life are outrageous. The fact that the US has such close ties with this country dispite their treatment of people and the natural world in general is disgusting. There was even a period of time in the 50's where the government encouraged murder for cannibalistic purposes.
They buy our debt and make all our goods, we are forced to be on good terms with them.
Sad but true
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| Posted 5/12/10 10:07 AM |
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8ternity
<3
Member since 11/08 10586 total posts
Name:
Formally NYPD-Wife
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
so disgusting!
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| Posted 5/12/10 10:47 AM |
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Celt
~~~~~~~~~~
Member since 4/08 7758 total posts
Name:
colette
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by LoriH
This is incredibly disturbing and sick but honestly does not suprise me much. I recently took a course on Modern China and the awful acts of violence, treatment of the people and the utter disregard for nature and human life are outrageous. The fact that the US has such close ties with this country dispite their treatment of people and the natural world in general is disgusting. There was even a period of time in the 50's where the government encouraged murder for cannibalistic purposes.
They buy our debt and make all our goods, we are forced to be on good terms with them.
Sad but true
I mean, I see what you're trying to say but I really think this particular situation is a bit more complex; I'd be wary not to demonize the entire Chinese culture for the actions of a few mentally people who just "snapped". God knows we have enough of that in our OWN country, and mentally ill persons are underserved in just about every country/region in the world
While yes our two countries have interlinked economies, that doesn't mean China=evil for trying to bring their economy and infrastructure into the 21st century, kwim? Their political, civil, economic, and environmental fallout don't look quite so villanous if we take an honest look at our own (relatively SHORT) history as a country - slavery, civil rights battles, horrifying crime on a daily basis, many still living at or below the poverty line, and our own selfish, rapacious environmental plundering which we keep seeking to "sweep under the rug" as it were, in order to be seen as the world leader in environmental awareness and climate change mediation.
Not trying to start crap on this fine day,  just adding a little dimension to the conversation is all.
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| Posted 5/12/10 11:48 AM |
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LoriH
There's no place like home
Member since 8/07 4110 total posts
Name:
Lori
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
Posted by colette
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by LoriH
This is incredibly disturbing and sick but honestly does not suprise me much. I recently took a course on Modern China and the awful acts of violence, treatment of the people and the utter disregard for nature and human life are outrageous. The fact that the US has such close ties with this country dispite their treatment of people and the natural world in general is disgusting. There was even a period of time in the 50's where the government encouraged murder for cannibalistic purposes.
They buy our debt and make all our goods, we are forced to be on good terms with them.
Sad but true
I mean, I see what you're trying to say but I really think this particular situation is a bit more complex; I'd be wary not to demonize the entire Chinese culture for the actions of a few mentally people who just "snapped". God knows we have enough of that in our OWN country, and mentally ill persons are underserved in just about every country/region in the world
While yes our two countries have interlinked economies, that doesn't mean China=evil for trying to bring their economy and infrastructure into the 21st century, kwim? Their political, civil, economic, and environmental fallout don't look quite so villanous if we take an honest look at our own (relatively SHORT) history as a country - slavery, civil rights battles, horrifying crime on a daily basis, many still living at or below the poverty line, and our own selfish, rapacious environmental plundering which we keep seeking to "sweep under the rug" as it were, in order to be seen as the world leader in environmental awareness and climate change mediation.
Not trying to start crap on this fine day, just adding a little dimension to the conversation is all.
I likely would have agreed with you a few months ago. I also do not disagree that the treatment of mentally ill people across the world is lacking and needs to be handled differently. Honestly after learning so much about the government I have a very different perspective. I am not demoralizing the people of the country, 99% of them are innocent victims of the Chinese Communist Party. It just does not surprise me that acts like this are occuring with the treatment of people and the lack of respect for human life that is at the core of the Chinese Communist Party's mission.
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| Posted 5/12/10 11:59 AM |
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annoyedTTCer
LIF Adult
Member since 4/09 3272 total posts
Name:
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
Posted by colette
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by LoriH
This is incredibly disturbing and sick but honestly does not suprise me much. I recently took a course on Modern China and the awful acts of violence, treatment of the people and the utter disregard for nature and human life are outrageous. The fact that the US has such close ties with this country dispite their treatment of people and the natural world in general is disgusting. There was even a period of time in the 50's where the government encouraged murder for cannibalistic purposes.
They buy our debt and make all our goods, we are forced to be on good terms with them.
Sad but true
I mean, I see what you're trying to say but I really think this particular situation is a bit more complex; I'd be wary not to demonize the entire Chinese culture for the actions of a few mentally people who just "snapped". God knows we have enough of that in our OWN country, and mentally ill persons are underserved in just about every country/region in the world
While yes our two countries have interlinked economies, that doesn't mean China=evil for trying to bring their economy and infrastructure into the 21st century, kwim? Their political, civil, economic, and environmental fallout don't look quite so villanous if we take an honest look at our own (relatively SHORT) history as a country - slavery, civil rights battles, horrifying crime on a daily basis, many still living at or below the poverty line, and our own selfish, rapacious environmental plundering which we keep seeking to "sweep under the rug" as it were, in order to be seen as the world leader in environmental awareness and climate change mediation.
Not trying to start crap on this fine day, just adding a little dimension to the conversation is all.
Do we have our own Tiananmen Square incident that I forgot about?
Do we execute people the moment they are found guilty of a crime?
Do we still force steralization on people?
Do we tortune dogs before killing them because we think it makes them taste better?
I think there is really no respect for life over there and in return it makes some folks just snap.
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| Posted 5/12/10 12:31 PM |
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DancinBarefoot
06ers Rock!!
Member since 1/07 9534 total posts
Name:
The One My Mother Gave Me ;-)
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Do we still force steralization on people?
Ummm, yes.
From the United State Supreme Court in the case of Buck v. Bell:
Mr. Justice HOLMES delivered the opinion of the Court.
This is a writ of error to review a judgment of the Supreme Court of Appeals of the State of Virginia, affirming a judgment of the Circuit Court of Amherst County, by which the defendant in error, the superintendent of the State Colony for Epileptics and Feeble Minded, was ordered to perform the operation of salpingectomy upon Carrie Buck, the plaintiff in error, for the purpose of making her sterile. 143 Va. 310, 130 S. E. 516. The case comes here upon the contention that the statute authorizing the judgment is void under the Fourteenth Amendment as denying to the plaintiff in error due process of law and the equal protection of the laws.
Carrie Buck is a feeble-minded white woman who was committed to the State Colony above mentioned in due form. She is the daughter of a feeble- minded mother in the same institution, and the mother of an illegitimate feeble-minded child. She was eighteen years old at the time of the trial of her case in the Circuit Court in the latter part of 1924. An Act of Virginia approved March 20, 1924 (Laws 1924, c. 394) recites that the health of the patient and the welfare of society may be promoted in certain cases by the sterilization of mental defectives, under careful safeguard, etc.; that the sterilization may be effected in males by vasectomy and in females by salpingectomy, without serious pain or substantial danger to life; that the Commonwealth is supporting in various institutions many defective persons who if now discharged would become [274 U.S. 200, 206] a menace but if incapable of procreating might be discharged with safety and become self-supporting with benefit to themselves and to society; and that experience has shown that heredity plays an important part in the transmission of insanity, imbecility, etc. The statute then enacts that whenever the superintendent of certain institutions including the abovenamed State Colony shall be of opinion that it is for the best interest of the patients and of society that an inmate under his care should be sexually sterilized, he may have the operation performed upon any patient afflicted with hereditary forms of insanity, imbecility, etc., on complying with the very careful provisions by which the act protects the patients from possible abuse.
The superintendent first presents a petition to the special board of directors of his hospital or colony, stating the facts and the grounds for his opinion, verified by affidavit. Notice of the petition and of the time and place of the hearing in the institution is to be served upon the inmate, and also upon his guardian, and if there is no guardian the superintendent is to apply to the Circuit Court of the County to appoint one. If the inmate is a minor notice also is to be given to his parents, if any, with a copy of the petition. The board is to see to it that the inmate may attend the hearings if desired by him or his guardian. The evidence is all to be reduced to writing, and after the board has made its order for or against the operation, the superintendent, or the inmate, or his guardian, may appeal to the Circuit Court of the County. The Circuit Court may consider the record of the board and the evidence before it and such other admissible evidence as may be offered, and may affirm, revise, or reverse the order of the board and enter such order as it deems just. Finally any party may apply to the Supreme Court of Appeals, which, if it grants the appeal, is to hear the case upon the record of the trial [274 U.S. 200, 207] in the Circuit Court and may enter such order as it thinks the Circuit Court should have entered. There can be no doubt that so far as procedure is concerned the rights of the patient are most carefully considered, and as every step in this case was taken in scrupulous compliance with the statute and after months of observation, there is no doubt that in that respect the plaintiff in error has had due process at law.
The attack is not upon the procedure but upon the substantive law. It seems to be contended that in no circumstances could such an order be justified. It certainly is contended that the order cannot be justified upon the existing grounds. The judgment finds the facts that have been recited and that Carrie Buck 'is the probable potential parent of socially inadequate offspring, likewise afflicted, that she may be sexually sterilized without detriment to her general health and that her welfare and that of society will be promoted by her sterilization,' and thereupon makes the order. In view of the general declarations of the Legislature and the specific findings of the Court obviously we cannot say as matter of law that the grounds do not exist, and if they exist they justify the result. We have seen more than once that the public welfare may call upon the best citizens for their lives. It would be strange if it could not call upon those who already sap the strength of the State for these lesser sacrifices, often not felt to be such by those concerned, in order to prevent our being swamped with incompetence. It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes. Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 , 25 S. Ct. 358, 3 Ann. Cas. 765. Three generations of imbeciles are enough. [274 U.S. 200, 208] But, it is said, however it might be if this reasoning were applied generally, it fails when it is confined to the small number who are in the institutions named and is not applied to the multitudes outside. It is the usual last resort of constitutional arguments to point out shortcomings of this sort. But the answer is that the law does all that is needed when it does all that it can, indicates a policy, applies it to all within the lines, and seeks to bring within the lines all similary situated so far and so fast as its means allow. Of course so far as the operations enable those who otherwise must be kept confined to be returned to the world, and thus open the asylum to others, the equality aimed at will be more nearly reached.
Judgment affirmed.
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| Posted 5/12/10 12:36 PM |
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Celt
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Member since 4/08 7758 total posts
Name:
colette
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Do we have our own Tiananmen Square incident that I forgot about?
*Yep.See "Kent State" massacre, stonewall riots, "MOVE" bombing circa 1985, we in fact have MANY examples of civil disobedience that were squashed...
Do we execute people the moment they are found guilty of a crime?
*No. Depending on WHERE you commit the crime, you can delay your execution for months or years, isn't that so much better?
Do we still force steralization on people?
*See above; and note how many of us SCREAM for this "right" in regard to pedophiles and rapists.
Do we tortune dogs before killing them because we think it makes them taste better?
*No, just lambs, chickens, cows, and other meats and poultry. The American palette rejects dog for the most part.
I think there is really no respect for life over there and in return it makes some folks just snap.
*Some would say the same for us, unfortunately.
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| Posted 5/12/10 12:56 PM |
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HeathKernandez
Our Ron is an awesome Ron
Member since 4/07 9091 total posts
Name:
baby fish mouth
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
Posted by colette
*Some would say the same for us, unfortunately.
good point.
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| Posted 5/12/10 12:58 PM |
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LoriH
There's no place like home
Member since 8/07 4110 total posts
Name:
Lori
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
I don't want to Hi-Jack this thread. Although this is related we are getting a bit off topic. However, it goes way beyond all of what was posted here. All I can honestly say is we are very fortunate to live in a free country. Here are some non governement sponsored news sites to take a look at for a start.
Epoch Times
NTDTV
China Scope
A brief History on the CCP and some of the acts carried out.
Nine Commentaries - Intro
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9
I can suggest a few books as well if you are interested.
Message edited 5/12/2010 1:15:55 PM.
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| Posted 5/12/10 1:15 PM |
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LoriH
There's no place like home
Member since 8/07 4110 total posts
Name:
Lori
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
Posted by colette
Do we have our own Tiananmen Square incident that I forgot about?
*Yep.See "Kent State" massacre, stonewall riots, "MOVE" bombing circa 1985, we in fact have MANY examples of civil disobedience that were squashed...
Do we execute people the moment they are found guilty of a crime?
*No. Depending on WHERE you commit the crime, you can delay your execution for months or years, isn't that so much better?
Do we still force steralization on people?
*See above; and note how many of us SCREAM for this "right" in regard to pedophiles and rapists.
Do we tortune dogs before killing them because we think it makes them taste better?
*No, just lambs, chickens, cows, and other meats and poultry. The American palette rejects dog for the most part.
I think there is really no respect for life over there and in return it makes some folks just snap.
*Some would say the same for us, unfortunately.
#1 Tiananmen Square - although there are examples of civil disobedience turned bloody in the US, it is at least in our history books. The Chinese Communist Party has omitted this from their history. It is not in any history books and has been retold to fit their agenda. The only way the people of the country know of this event is by oral history and the fact that the world is globalized and travel is allowed in and out of the country.
#2 Execute people the moment they are found guilty of a crime.
Although we do execute people in this country there is a code of law, judge jury and trial. In China they bend the laws to fit the Chinese Communist Party's whim. There is a fascade of possible jurisprudence but in reality it does not exist.
#3 forced steralization - Not only is there forced sterilizaton in China but over 400,000 abortions are performed each month. This does not include back alley abortions which are common in the poorest areas.
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| Posted 5/12/10 1:27 PM |
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Celt
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Member since 4/08 7758 total posts
Name:
colette
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
I guess I'm perplexed overall by the debate on this one -- surely you don't believe I'm advocating China as an exemplar of human rights, correct  ?
Lori your facts and conclusions are certainly thought-provoking, and yes the Communist "system" lends itself to propaganda and disinformation, even in our modern "information age"... but is that exclusive to that system, i.e., is our democratic system nothing but forthcoming about our own history? History belongs to the victors, simply stated.
But to debate the merits of communism vs. democracy - BOTH imperfect, with pros, AND cons, btw seems irrelevant to this thread. It's an apples v oranges discussion, imho, and it's not an academic issue for me, having lived and worked in HK for 3 years with frequent trips both business and pleasure into mainland China... I did see and read things during my time there (1995-98 inclusive of the handover) that would make anyone alternately  or  or  .
Again not that your views are wrong in any way - I appreciate the fact that you have studied this amazing country and bring some knowledge of the issue to the table; I'm just saying it's not a "good vs. evil" formula on this one.
Morgan sorry for the sidetrack/hijack etc!!!
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| Posted 5/12/10 1:43 PM |
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SusiBee
. . . . .
Member since 3/09 8268 total posts
Name:
S
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
Seven children died.
It's not about communism, not about Tianamen Square, not about instant executions.
It's about a senseless act by one lunatic, who fortunately or not, took his own life as well.
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| Posted 5/12/10 1:58 PM |
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LoriH
There's no place like home
Member since 8/07 4110 total posts
Name:
Lori
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
Posted by colette
I guess I'm perplexed overall by the debate on this one -- surely you don't believe I'm advocating China as an exemplar of human rights, correct ?
Lori your facts and conclusions are certainly thought-provoking, and yes the Communist "system" lends itself to propaganda and disinformation, even in our modern "information age"... but is that exclusive to that system, i.e., is our democratic system nothing but forthcoming about our own history? History belongs to the victors, simply stated.
But to debate the merits of communism vs. democracy - BOTH imperfect, with pros, AND cons, btw seems irrelevant to this thread. It's an apples v oranges discussion, imho, and it's not an academic issue for me, having lived and worked in HK for 3 years with frequent trips both business and pleasure into mainland China... I did see and read things during my time there (1995-98 inclusive of the handover) that would make anyone alternately or or .
Again not that your views are wrong in any way - I appreciate the fact that you have studied this amazing country and bring some knowledge of the issue to the table; I'm just saying it's not a "good vs. evil" formula on this one.
Morgan sorry for the sidetrack/hijack etc!!!
I don't think you are advocating China as an exemplar of human rights. I also tried my best to keep my own personal views out of the conversation while providing some information if anyone is inclined to look at it. I am not saying communism is evil and democracy is infallible. I am no where near that naive. I was just providing information on how communism is carried out in China and what it has done to the people, culture, religion and natural environment of the country. I tend to debate things and enjoy speaking with someone else with knowledge on a subject.
Sorry again for the sidetrack/hijack
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| Posted 5/12/10 2:00 PM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14021 total posts
Name:
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
Posted by LoriH
I can suggest a few books as well if you are interested.
I would be interested. I love history.
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| Posted 5/12/10 2:11 PM |
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LoriH
There's no place like home
Member since 8/07 4110 total posts
Name:
Lori
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
Posted by shamrock124
Posted by LoriH
I can suggest a few books as well if you are interested.
I would be interested. I love history.
Here are two I remember the names of:
“A Daughter of Han: The Autobiography of a Chinese Working Woman” by Lao TAi-TAi Ning
Story of a traditional Chinese working woman who lived during a few major turning points in Chinese history.
"To the Storm: The Odyssey of a Revolutionary Chinese Woman" by Daiyun/Wakeman
About life under Mao Zedong
There were a few others that were great as well, I'll see if I can find the names. Check the online library catalog to see if you can take them out for free. They aren't cheap if you buy off Amazon.
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| Posted 5/12/10 2:32 PM |
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Celt
~~~~~~~~~~
Member since 4/08 7758 total posts
Name:
colette
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
"Wild Swans" is one of the best books I've ever read; The author Jung Chan tells her family's story through 3 generations - her grandmother, mother, and her own experience coming of age during the Cultural Revolution. It's riveting stuff, a great synopsis of 3 generations of Chinese history, as well as well as an insight into the "Cult of Personality" of Mao Zedong and his ultimately misguided policies. Here's a link: Wild Swans
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| Posted 5/12/10 3:23 PM |
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GinaR
LIF Adult
Member since 9/08 1976 total posts
Name:
Gina
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
wow. thats horrible!!!
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| Posted 5/12/10 3:48 PM |
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sweetie101
you make me smile :o)
Member since 5/08 4419 total posts
Name:
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Re: I don't understand why these attacks on kindergarteners keep happening in China?
thats sad
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| Posted 5/12/10 7:09 PM |
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