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stinger
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 4971 total posts
Name:
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ICE Raids
How are those of you who consider yourself "liberal" feeling about the illegal immigrant Raids?
IMO it sucks and i have some compassion for families but im not outraged like i am about every other thing trump has done
Maybe i havent read enough but essentially they are illegal and shouldnt be surprised that this happened. plus obama did same.
Any other info about this that anyone has?!
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Posted 2/11/17 6:41 PM  |
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bookworm
Two Little Rosebuds
Member since 8/09 2106 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
I read that they were targeting criminal immigrants, but it's hard to know with this circus always swirling.
One thing we all have to acknowledge is Obama's reputation as deporter-in-chief. I thought it was ironic that Trump ran the illegal immigration issue and so often implied that Obama was soft on this when his deportation stats dwarfed those of Bush.
My point is, everything I read said this is not new. I have to wonder if this is just the first time the media is picking up the story because the climate is right and it will sell papers.
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| Posted 2/11/17 6:50 PM |
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RainyDay
LIF Adult
Member since 6/15 3990 total posts
Name:
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ICE Raids
I was reading up on it yesterday. I am liberal and I don't see how what the ICE is doing is wrong. These people are here illegally and should be deported.
I don't really understand why people are protesting about the mother who was deported because she was here illegally. I am all for helping people and immigration but it should be done legally.
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| Posted 2/11/17 7:14 PM |
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stinger
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 4971 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by RainyDay
I was reading up on it yesterday. I am liberal and I don't see how what the ICE is doing is wrong. These people are here illegally and should be deported.
I don't really understand why people are protesting about the mother who was deported because she was here illegally. I am all for helping people and immigration but it should be done legally.
Thats how i feel. The only issue i can see is if they are targeting communities of color and not white illegals
Also i think trumps approach is more to instill terror and fear. I think obama dealt with high level criminals?
I also read trump should be targeting employers who employ illegals but wouldnt dare do that
Message edited 2/11/2017 7:35:30 PM.
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| Posted 2/11/17 7:27 PM |
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stinger
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 4971 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by bookworm
I read that they were targeting criminal immigrants, but it's hard to know with this circus always swirling.
One thing we all have to acknowledge is Obama's reputation as deporter-in-chief. I thought it was ironic that Trump ran the illegal immigration issue and so often implied that Obama was soft on this when his deportation stats dwarfed those of Bush.
My point is, everything I read said this is not new. I have to wonder if this is just the first time the media is picking up the story because the climate is right and it will sell papers.
I think it my coincide with trumps new EO giving police more authority too.
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| Posted 2/11/17 7:28 PM |
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Diane
Hope is Contagious....catch it
Member since 5/05 30683 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: ICE Raids
ICES actions are no different to when Obama's tenure in office, more than 2 million undocumented immigrants were deported back to their native countries.
Trump's officials will focus on apprehending undocumented immigrants who have been convicted of crimes the United States.
Why would anyone be against this?
Message edited 2/11/2017 7:36:16 PM.
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| Posted 2/11/17 7:35 PM |
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Re: ICE Raids
Media is sensationalizing this more than they need to because ICE has been doing many of these raids since 2010-2011:
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-12-04/illegal-immigration-deportation-obama-gingrich-homeland-security/51646680/1
The concern with Trumps EO however, is that it has broadened the scope of ICE's powers so that illegal immigrants with borderline (FN1) criminal or sometimes NO felony records are being subject to deportation:
https://qz.com/908081/if-you-want-to-see-what-trumps-immigration-policy-looks-like-in-practice-consider-the-deportation-of-this-arizona-woman/
FN1: some crimes that would be subject to being classified as a felony for ICE purposes could be something minor like a traffic ticket or similar misdemeanor.
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| Posted 2/12/17 1:09 AM |
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kimchee
LIF Toddler
Member since 1/07 428 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
The irony of a guy who has hired illegal immigrants to work for him and is now deporting them can't be missed....
I wonder if ICE is stepping up because they are emboldened by this president and have a quota to meet so they aren't restricting raids to just the illegals who have committed violent crimes.
Maybe this is also another thing he's doing to draw fire away what's happening lately with Conway, the 'Muslim Ban' defeat and Flynn....
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| Posted 2/12/17 1:58 AM |
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Jenhos
Maeve
Member since 6/05 3273 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by kimchee
The irony of a guy who has hired illegal immigrants to work for him and is now deporting them can't be missed....
I wonder if ICE is stepping up because they are emboldened by this president and have a quota to meet so they aren't restricting raids to just the illegals who have committed violent crimes.
Maybe this is also another thing he's doing to draw fire away what's happening lately with Conway, the 'Muslim Ban' defeat and Flynn....
This is the mentality that makes people protest. This is nothing new. The Media has just decided now to make it a big deal. Because people hate Trump there has to be an alterior motive. Sorry, if you are here illegally (especially if you are a criminal) you should be deported. Simple as that. Obama started this and deported a lot of people. Bravo to Obama for starting this and to Trump for continuing it.
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| Posted 2/12/17 8:53 AM |
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RainyDay
LIF Adult
Member since 6/15 3990 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
Why are people so upset over Trump's EO? It shouldn't matter if they were previously convicted of a crime. If you are here illegally and you get caught then you should be deported back to your home country.
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| Posted 2/12/17 9:14 AM |
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MrsT809
LIF Adult
Member since 9/09 12167 total posts
Name:
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ICE Raids
I think violent criminals should 100% be deported. I have mixed feeling about deporting people for minor offenses. I was watching an interview with the Boston mayor about this. He talked about why they are a sanctuary city and it was interesting. For example, illegal immigrants should be able to report crimes without fear of being deported just for talking to the police. He also talked about going after the people who employ them, not the workers.
I've also seen reports about what happened when some states took on illegal farm workers in a serious way. Crops sat unharvested and rotting bc there aren't nearly enough Americans who are willing to do those jobs.
Obviously there are major flaws in the system but I think we need a better plan to address them.
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| Posted 2/12/17 9:51 AM |
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stinger
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 4971 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by MrsT809
I think violent criminals should 100% be deported. I have mixed feeling about deporting people for minor offenses. I was watching an interview with the Boston mayor about this. He talked about why they are a sanctuary city and it was interesting. For example, illegal immigrants should be able to report crimes without fear of being deported just for talking to the police. He also talked about going after the people who employ them, not the workers.
I've also seen reports about what happened when some states took on illegal farm workers in a serious way. Crops sat unharvested and rotting bc there aren't nearly enough Americans who are willing to do those jobs.
Obviously there are major flaws in the system but I think we need a better plan to address them.
Thats the key are the trump voters claiming no jobs going to now, suddenly, take the undocumented workers' jobs?
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| Posted 2/12/17 10:03 AM |
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MrsT809
LIF Adult
Member since 9/09 12167 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by stinger
Posted by MrsT809
I think violent criminals should 100% be deported. I have mixed feeling about deporting people for minor offenses. I was watching an interview with the Boston mayor about this. He talked about why they are a sanctuary city and it was interesting. For example, illegal immigrants should be able to report crimes without fear of being deported just for talking to the police. He also talked about going after the people who employ them, not the workers.
I've also seen reports about what happened when some states took on illegal farm workers in a serious way. Crops sat unharvested and rotting bc there aren't nearly enough Americans who are willing to do those jobs.
Obviously there are major flaws in the system but I think we need a better plan to address them.
Thats the key are the trump voters claiming no jobs going to now, suddenly, take the undocumented workers' jobs?
Regarding jobs, I also saw a report that there are huge numbers of manufacturing jobs available right now. The problem is they are not the type of jobs you can walk into right out of high school and there is a big gap in skills that needs to be addressed.
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| Posted 2/12/17 10:06 AM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by stinger
Posted by MrsT809
I think violent criminals should 100% be deported. I have mixed feeling about deporting people for minor offenses. I was watching an interview with the Boston mayor about this. He talked about why they are a sanctuary city and it was interesting. For example, illegal immigrants should be able to report crimes without fear of being deported just for talking to the police. He also talked about going after the people who employ them, not the workers.
I've also seen reports about what happened when some states took on illegal farm workers in a serious way. Crops sat unharvested and rotting bc there aren't nearly enough Americans who are willing to do those jobs.
Obviously there are major flaws in the system but I think we need a better plan to address them.
Thats the key are the trump voters claiming no jobs going to now, suddenly, take the undocumented workers' jobs?
Nope. Get ready for produce prices to skyrocket.
Link
The article is old but the sentiment is the same. No 23 year old unemployed American is going to start harvesting crops for low wages like undocumented immigrants have been.
Message edited 2/12/2017 10:11:34 AM.
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| Posted 2/12/17 10:09 AM |
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Re: ICE Raids
Violent criminals should absolutely be deported.
But I've also read that these raids have become more random- that if they can't find the people they seek, they are taking whoever is undocumented regardless of whether or not they have a record.
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| Posted 2/12/17 11:40 AM |
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bookworm
Two Little Rosebuds
Member since 8/09 2106 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by MrsT809
He also talked about going after the people who employ them, not the workers.
I've also seen reports about what happened when some states took on illegal farm workers in a serious way. Crops sat unharvested and rotting bc there aren't nearly enough Americans who are willing to do those jobs.
Obviously there are major flaws in the system but I think we need a better plan to address them.
This is valid in agriculture. However, there are a lot of jobs in construction, food service, and manufacturing that used to be filled by citizens and are now mostly unavailable to Americans. I personally know people who were squeezed out of those jobs because employers would have had to have paid them above minimum wage and on the books.
And I'm conflicted about this because I have students for whom the threat of DACA being rescinded is a crippling fear and my heart has been breaking for them since the election, but the immigration issue is a HUGE burden on schools. In many communities you have large and fast-growing populations of immigrants whose families bring very little tax revenue to the table but are some of the neediest, consuming a TON of resources under the threat of testing and state accountability. I might be willing to pay more for a hamburger or tree removal if state and property taxes weren't being siphoned away from American kids who are frighteningly illiterate.
In a perfect world, I would grant amnesty to everyone who is already here (save for criminals) if we could repeal birthright citizenship and stop the inward flow save for skilled immigrants who serve our economy and quotas of refugees we choose to accept from the world's most horrific crises.
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| Posted 2/12/17 11:55 AM |
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MrsT809
LIF Adult
Member since 9/09 12167 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by bookworm
Posted by MrsT809
He also talked about going after the people who employ them, not the workers.
I've also seen reports about what happened when some states took on illegal farm workers in a serious way. Crops sat unharvested and rotting bc there aren't nearly enough Americans who are willing to do those jobs.
Obviously there are major flaws in the system but I think we need a better plan to address them.
This is valid in agriculture. However, there are a lot of jobs in construction, food service, and manufacturing that used to be filled by citizens and are now mostly unavailable to Americans. I personally know people who were squeezed out of those jobs because employers would have had to have paid them above minimum wage and on the books.
And I'm conflicted about this because I have students for whom the threat of DACA being rescinded is a crippling fear and my heart has been breaking for them since the election, but the immigration issue is a HUGE burden on schools. In many communities you have large and fast-growing populations of immigrants whose families bring very little tax revenue to the table but are some of the neediest, consuming a TON of resources under the threat of testing and state accountability. I might be willing to pay more for a hamburger or tree removal if state and property taxes weren't being siphoned away from American kids who are frighteningly illiterate.
In a perfect world, I would grant amnesty to everyone who is already here (save for criminals) if we could repeal birthright citizenship and stop the inward flow save for skilled immigrants who serve our economy and quotas of refugees we choose to accept from the world's most horrific crises.
Most of this I do agree with. Repealing birthright citizenship is where I get most torn. I see how it would help and would likely lessen the flow of people coming in but where does it leave these people? Some will end up with no citizenship anywhere and no where to go aside from detention centers. Then you're looking at generation after generation of noncitizens in some cases. I honestly don't know what the solution is but I do see that being a huge problem for some.
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| Posted 2/12/17 12:15 PM |
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Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3073 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by MrsProfessor
Violent criminals should absolutely be deported.
But I've also read that these raids have become more random- that if they can't find the people they seek, they are taking whoever is undocumented regardless of whether or not they have a record.
As the daughter of a retired ICE officer who still has plenty of friends on the job, I can tell you that is not true. The number of raids and randomness has not increased. It's just that the media is actually reporting it which they never did before.
And from an ICE perspective there are no "undocumented" people. They are illegal.
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| Posted 2/12/17 12:57 PM |
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w8andsee
LIF Adult
Member since 10/09 1193 total posts
Name:
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Re: ICE Raids
Does anyone know if an illegal immigrant can become legal without leaving the US?
(Besides marrying an American citizen)
I keep getting conflicting information.
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| Posted 2/12/17 3:22 PM |
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Leb
LIF Adult
Member since 12/09 4166 total posts
Name:
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ICE Raids
I am confused why this is coming to light now and people are protesting? Obama deported millions of immigrants. Why more than George W Bush, prior to him. These ICE raids are against criminals! CRIMINALS!
Also PS in the 1930s my great grandfather "commuted" back and forth from Sicily and America where he worked as a long shore man. The first time he saw my grandma was when she was TWO years old. He tried and tried to get his family here and it is my understanding he could have done it illegally but he refused. It took him two years of trying and finally they boarded a ship via Ellis Island. They came here as legal immigrants.
The USA takes in over a million legal immigrants a year. We CANNOT stake in every single person that wants to come to our country.
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| Posted 2/12/17 4:07 PM |
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Diane
Hope is Contagious....catch it
Member since 5/05 30683 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by Leb
I am confused why this is coming to light now and people are protesting? Obama deported millions of immigrants. Why more than George W Bush, prior to him. These ICE raids are against criminals! CRIMINALS!
Also PS in the 1930s my great grandfather "commuted" back and forth from Sicily and America where he worked as a long shore man. The first time he saw my grandma was when she was TWO years old. He tried and tried to get his family here and it is my understanding he could have done it illegally but he refused. It took him two years of trying and finally they boarded a ship via Ellis Island. They came here as legal immigrants.
The USA takes in over a million legal immigrants a year. We CANNOT stake in every single person that wants to come to our country.
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| Posted 2/12/17 5:18 PM |
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LSP2005
Bunny kisses are so cute!
Member since 5/05 19458 total posts
Name:
L
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Re: ICE Raids
I am completely fine with ICE following the law and deporting illegal immigrants, especially violent offenders and those who committed identity theft.
Edit
I think the EO was poorly worded, but he could change it following the road map set out by the 9th circuit ct.and it could be legal.
Message edited 2/13/2017 11:23:19 AM.
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| Posted 2/12/17 7:28 PM |
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Xelindrya
Mommy's little YouTube Star!
Member since 8/05 14470 total posts
Name:
Veronica
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by w8andsee
Does anyone know if an illegal immigrant can become legal without leaving the US?
(Besides marrying an American citizen)
I keep getting conflicting information.
You call and ask. There's forms to fill out but basically if you're here illegally, there've been plenty of amnesty periods by previous presidents time and time again.
I was shocked when I moved into my apt in NY and found my roomie to be here illegally and openingly trying for the lottery to gain citizenship. She'd send in post card with her info and passport photo. I'm thinking so they KNOW you're here illegally, where you live, work and they just don't care?
Message edited 2/13/2017 10:03:46 AM.
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| Posted 2/13/17 9:30 AM |
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Re: ICE Raids
Posted by RainyDay
Why are people so upset over Trump's EO? It shouldn't matter if they were previously convicted of a crime. If you are here illegally and you get caught then you should be deported back to your home country.
I think there is concern that his EO is overstepping on due process grounds - while I agree that criminals should be deported and the US should continue to vet aliens, I think the concerns lie in the type of "anti-OTHER" rhetoric that his supporters are vocalizing. Ignorantly hurling things to strangers to "get the F out" when these people might not even be illegal. I am an anchor baby, my parents became naturalized citizens in the early 70s before I was born, and if for whatever reason some crazy legislation is passed that revokes birthright citizenship retroactively, I could be deported just as any illegal immigrant. Trump has already shown disdain for our judges and judicial system, I can't say I am not worried- even if the logical side of me thinks its pretty unlikely.
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| Posted 2/13/17 10:56 AM |
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LIRascal
drama. daily.
Member since 3/11 7287 total posts
Name:
Michelle
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ICE Raids
OK, soapbox time.
I do not feel that "raids" are warranted. The method is draconian and there is absolutely no basis for these types of bust-ins other than fear-mongering and nativism. In my opinion, there has to be another way to deport violent FELONS. I have a feeling LE knows who and where they are. In these raids, they have also picked up undocumented immigrants who have committed petty crimes or misdemeanors, or simply their crime is being in the US undocumented 
As far as jobs are concerned: I think it is difficult for our segment of the population in this region to fully understand how manufacturing jobs can benefit the local economy. There aren't many people in this region who are unemployed who will readily slide into a position that becomes available that is beneath their skill set simply because it's available.
However, take a midwestern/southern high school grad whose rust-belt steel press/factory/refinery/processing center had been outsourced. The promise of a steady income (even if they had to be retrained) would be so attractive *again, IMO
The problem with the job market and unemployment figures being reported is that they don't take underemployment into account. (Those who have stopped looking or have accepted positions not suited for their education) For example, my friend in Stamford Ct. who was an ICU nurse. She was unemployed after layoffs at her hospital. She would have to commute 45 min-1hr just to make the same $ in nursing, or her childcare costs wouldn't be warranted. She took a job closer to home that is part-time in medical billing after she stopped collecting unemployment. She's no longer being considered "unemployed", but she's making $16/hr part time... she's not fully employed. Her goal and skill set haven't been fulfilled. Her goal for her children is not a job at the steel press, it's to go to a 4-year school and work a white-collar job.
So, I think we need to see that there are benefits to creating skilled work here in the US, but at the same time, we need to accept the value of work that our undocumented immigrants provide. I saw something on FB recently that's hysterical. It plays into every history lesson on Immigration I've ever taught:
"They're stealing our jobs!"
Yes, Gary with the high school diploma. Mohammed the surgeon is stealing your job. 
Message edited 2/13/2017 11:22:55 AM.
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| Posted 2/13/17 11:22 AM |
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