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mommy2bella
Where does time go?
Member since 12/05 9747 total posts
Name:
Kelly
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It's a bigger battle than I thought....
Bella's classroom environment is a bigger issue than I thought and not re: class size.
I can't really get into it. But I have been on the phone with the principal, her teacher, and a parent today...and I left a message with the superintendent of schools as well. I am beyond concerned.
I am going to be the voice for Bella....but it sucks. I can't believe 22 days into her education I have to deal with this....and with all the freaking taxes I pay.
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Posted 10/8/10 2:02 PM  |
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MikesBride
LIF Adult
Member since 12/09 1245 total posts
Name:
Ilana
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
Good luck...if you want someone to comiserate with please don't hesitate to FM me.
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| Posted 10/8/10 2:16 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
What the ??!
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| Posted 10/8/10 2:40 PM |
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Kidsaplenty
Sister love
Member since 2/06 5971 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
What is going on over there?
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| Posted 10/8/10 3:23 PM |
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LisaI
Momma's Little Beans
Member since 1/06 3923 total posts
Name:
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
I might of missed previous posts about this. May I ask what the current class size in your DD's classroom?
Where you not aware of the class size before entering the school or were you told it would be different and or changing soon?
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| Posted 10/8/10 3:24 PM |
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CathyB
Member since 5/05 19403 total posts
Name:
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
 Good luck!
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| Posted 10/8/10 3:25 PM |
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mommy2bella
Where does time go?
Member since 12/05 9747 total posts
Name:
Kelly
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
Posted by LisaI
I might of missed previous posts about this. May I ask what the current class size in your DD's classroom?
Where you not aware of the class size before entering the school or were you told it would be different and or changing soon?
They were supposed to MAX out at 50 kids. 25 per class. Large classes for kindergarten....but it was what it was. Then they added another child to the other class.
Meanwhile Bella is part of an inclusion class, which we were NOT informed of. So 25 kids with several kids in the process of being classified...plus there are now safety issues being raised.
I was originally annoyed by why it was handled the way it was (they are adding an assistant that will split time between the two classes....instead of creating another class)
Now, I have been alerted to what the real issue is. It's a delicate one, but infuriating that this there was an attempt to have it kept under wraps....well, 25 kids have big mouths and I am pizzed.
Message edited 10/8/2010 3:58:43 PM.
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| Posted 10/8/10 3:57 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
Posted by mommy2bella
well, 25 kids have big mouths and I am pizzed.
They thought the kids would keep quiet about something....they should know better than that!?
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| Posted 10/8/10 4:08 PM |
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mommy2bella
Where does time go?
Member since 12/05 9747 total posts
Name:
Kelly
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
Posted by nrthshgrl
Posted by mommy2bella
well, 25 kids have big mouths and I am pizzed.
They thought the kids would keep quiet about something....they should know better than that!?
I think they were woefully unprepared for what is happening and they are trying to keep it on the quiet side while they figure it out.
I am sure that my calls to the principal, the teacher, and the message left with the superintendent, as well as with another parent will blow the lid off that notion now.
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| Posted 10/8/10 4:18 PM |
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
I don't teach elementary, so I may be wrong, but I am wondering about 25 kids in an inclusion class. In my NYC middle school, the inclusion classes are capped at 15, I think. Are there paras in there? If it's inclusion that may be law. If you haven't asked on the teacher board, some of those ladies might know.
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| Posted 10/8/10 7:52 PM |
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mommy2bella
Where does time go?
Member since 12/05 9747 total posts
Name:
Kelly
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
Posted by MrsProfessor
I don't teach elementary, so I may be wrong, but I am wondering about 25 kids in an inclusion class. In my NYC middle school, the inclusion classes are capped at 15, I think. Are there paras in there? If it's inclusion that may be law. If you haven't asked on the teacher board, some of those ladies might know.
the child is assigned an aide and there is another aide in the class. I also know that there are 1-2 additional inclusion kids...
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| Posted 10/8/10 8:14 PM |
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Tah-wee-ZAH
Kisses
Member since 5/05 15952 total posts
Name:
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
Just want to lend my support. I teach high school and have taught inclusion on and off for several years. I'm trying to "read between the lines" of your post and I think I have a pretty good hunch as to what you are alluding too
Don't be afraid to be Bella's advocate. If it is what I think it is I would be doing the same. More parents need to speak up
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| Posted 10/8/10 9:13 PM |
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mommy2bella
Where does time go?
Member since 12/05 9747 total posts
Name:
Kelly
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
Posted by Tah-wee-ZAH
Just want to lend my support. I teach high school and have taught inclusion on and off for several years. I'm trying to "read between the lines" of your post and I think I have a pretty good hunch as to what you are alluding too
Don't be afraid to be Bella's advocate. If it is what I think it is I would be doing the same. More parents need to speak up
Thank you. I am trying to be fully understanding of all sides while also trying to make sure that I advocate for Bella. I had a lengthy discussion with the superintendent yesterday, so I guess we'll see. I guess people don't really do that because the mother of one of Bella's class almost passed out when I told her.
Isn't that what the Superintendent is there for?
And why aren't more parents pizzed??? This is a clear issue and the superintendent wasn't overly surprised by my call. But she WAS surprised about some of my examples as she wasn't aware of them.
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| Posted 10/9/10 12:25 PM |
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PatsBrat
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 2326 total posts
Name:
Ms. Brat
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
I taught integrated K (same as inclusion, different name) for many years. Class size isn't necessarily smaller (class size is dictated by individual districts), but there is a cap on the number of identified ("special") students who can be in it, and that is by law. There should also be a special ed teacher and a teacher's assistant in the room.
I'm very curious as to what would be so shocking to find out, and what the district could possibly hiding.
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| Posted 10/9/10 2:00 PM |
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justthe4ofus
I hate hypocrites!!!!!
Member since 5/05 6905 total posts
Name:
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
Posted by PatsBrat
I taught integrated K (same as inclusion, different name) for many years. Class size isn't necessarily smaller (class size is dictated by individual districts), but there is a cap on the number of identified ("special") students who can be in it, and that is by law. There should also be a special ed teacher and a teacher's assistant in the room.
I'm very curious as to what would be so shocking to find out, and what the district could possibly hiding.
Exactly!!
I commend you though for speaking up about something you are not happy with.
My daughter started Kindergarten also, and she as 23 in her class and there is one assistant for the class, but its not an inclusion class.
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| Posted 10/9/10 2:06 PM |
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CunningOne
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Member since 5/05 26975 total posts
Name:
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
Posted by PatsBrat
I'm very curious as to what would be so shocking to find out, and what the district could possibly hiding.
Same here.
And I applaud you for taking those steps in the best interest of Bella. I believe our public school has several K classes with 25 in each. My kids are in a school where there are less than 15 kids in their classes. When one speaks, every one hears 
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| Posted 10/9/10 2:38 PM |
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computergirl
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 3118 total posts
Name:
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
As a mom whose DS starts public K next year, I am really curious about this too. Are there really problems that arise from being in an inclusion class, or is it something else that I'm missing? I'm getting worried already and I have a year, lol!! If anyone could FM me, I would really appreciate it.
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| Posted 10/10/10 7:23 AM |
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BargainMama
LIF Adult
Member since 5/09 15657 total posts
Name:
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
Posted by computergirl
As a mom whose DS starts public K next year, I am really curious about this too. Are there really problems that arise from being in an inclusion class, or is it something else that I'm missing? I'm getting worried already and I have a year, lol!! If anyone could FM me, I would really appreciate it.
There are typically zero problems with an inclusion class. Many parents create a problem themselves when they don't want their child learning amongst other children w/ various disabilities. I'm not saying that is the case here at all, but that is usually the only problem.
Children need to be pretty high functioning to be offered an inclusion class. Every child has a right to be in the least restrictive environment, and being around typically developing children all day is beneficial to everyone involved. The typical child learns tolerance for someone "different" from them. The child with the disability has the benefit of interacting w/ typical peers which they wouldn't get in a self contained class.
I wouldn't worry at all! I think the OP's circumstances are isolated.
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| Posted 10/10/10 8:33 AM |
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BigB
C & J are 10!
Member since 6/05 5914 total posts
Name:
Stacey
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
State law dictates what numbers can be in an inclusion class.....In NYS, an inclusion class can be 33 1/3% of the students in the class. So, in a class of 25, 8 students can be classified as special ed.
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| Posted 10/10/10 8:54 AM |
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mommy2bella
Where does time go?
Member since 12/05 9747 total posts
Name:
Kelly
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
Posted by BargainMama
Posted by computergirl
As a mom whose DS starts public K next year, I am really curious about this too. Are there really problems that arise from being in an inclusion class, or is it something else that I'm missing? I'm getting worried already and I have a year, lol!! If anyone could FM me, I would really appreciate it.
There are typically zero problems with an inclusion class. Many parents create a problem themselves when they don't want their child learning amongst other children w/ various disabilities. I'm not saying that is the case here at all, but that is usually the only problem.
Children need to be pretty high functioning to be offered an inclusion class. Every child has a right to be in the least restrictive environment, and being around typically developing children all day is beneficial to everyone involved. The typical child learns tolerance for someone "different" from them. The child with the disability has the benefit of interacting w/ typical peers which they wouldn't get in a self contained class.
I wouldn't worry at all! I think the OP's circumstances are isolated.
My sister is a teacher and I am 100% understanding of inclusion and what it entails. I understand that it is an opportunity for both the classified child and the children they are in class with to learn that a. everyone learns differently b. be more accepting of those issues.
I also understand that a lot of people know where I live and what school my child may be in, so I hesitate to air out any specifics. My heart goes out to the child and their parents. Let's just say that there have been some "incidents" that raise safety issues as well as a couple of other issues.
Kindergarten is a time where a lot of these "classifications" are being determined and it takes time. I just do not want my child's safety or overall education for her and the other children to suffer at the attempt to accomodate one child that perhaps SHOULD NOT be mainstreamed in the end.
ETA: This is a specific issue for me...BUT, in my conversations with MANY teachers as well as with the people in this situation specifically...the challenge is becoming where the line of self-contained/least restrictive lies as this is becoming a more common problem.
Message edited 10/10/2010 1:30:34 PM.
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| Posted 10/10/10 1:28 PM |
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Jacksmommy
My love muffin!
Member since 1/07 5819 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
Posted by BigB
State law dictates what numbers can be in an inclusion class.....In NYS, an inclusion class can be 33 1/3% of the students in the class. So, in a class of 25, 8 students can be classified as special ed.
This is not true. . . There is no LEGAL definitiion of Inclusion!
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| Posted 10/10/10 2:28 PM |
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nicrae
He's here!
Member since 12/06 9289 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
Posted by Jacksmommy
Posted by BigB
State law dictates what numbers can be in an inclusion class.....In NYS, an inclusion class can be 33 1/3% of the students in the class. So, in a class of 25, 8 students can be classified as special ed.
This is not true. . . There is no LEGAL definitiion of Inclusion!
actually it is true. My school was cited by the state because we weren't in compliance with STATE regulations. Our inclusion classes had more classified students than allowed based on ratio.
Message edited 10/10/2010 2:58:08 PM.
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| Posted 10/10/10 2:56 PM |
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browneyedgirl
family is all that matters
Member since 6/06 6513 total posts
Name:
browneyes
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
Posted by nicrae
Posted by Jacksmommy
Posted by BigB
State law dictates what numbers can be in an inclusion class.....In NYS, an inclusion class can be 33 1/3% of the students in the class. So, in a class of 25, 8 students can be classified as special ed.
This is not true. . . There is no LEGAL definitiion of Inclusion!
actually it is true. My school was cited by the state because we weren't in compliance with STATE regulations. Our inclusion classes had more classified students than allowed based on ratio.
jacksmommy is correct, that is not the cap. i know that for a fact. most districts create their own cap, but it's definitely not state law. possibly it could be city law, but not on the island. i don't think there is any definition on a legal level.
i am also reading between the lines. i'm assuming there is a child with severe behavioral problems who is inappropriately placed, and probably due to parental choice and not the recommendation of the CSE. this unfortunately happens in inclusion, as well as general ed classes, due to LRE. parents often think they are being an advocate for their kid, but an inappropriate placement can be detrimental to an entire class.
to the OP, i apologize if i'm assuming incorrectly, but that is my first thought. if that is what it is, just know the teachers' hands are tied. they can't control who is in their class and can only give their voice and documentation at a CSE.
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| Posted 10/10/10 4:45 PM |
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MrsH
LIF Adolescent
Member since 3/07 766 total posts
Name:
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
Posted by browneyedgirl
Posted by nicrae
Posted by Jacksmommy
Posted by BigB
State law dictates what numbers can be in an inclusion class.....In NYS, an inclusion class can be 33 1/3% of the students in the class. So, in a class of 25, 8 students can be classified as special ed.
This is not true. . . There is no LEGAL definitiion of Inclusion!
actually it is true. My school was cited by the state because we weren't in compliance with STATE regulations. Our inclusion classes had more classified students than allowed based on ratio.
jacksmommy is correct, that is not the cap. i know that for a fact. most districts create their own cap, but it's definitely not state law. possibly it could be city law, but not on the island. i don't think there is any definition on a legal level.
i am also reading between the lines. i'm assuming there is a child with severe behavioral problems who is inappropriately placed, and probably due to parental choice and not the recommendation of the CSE. this unfortunately happens in inclusion, as well as general ed classes, due to LRE. parents often think they are being an advocate for their kid, but an inappropriate placement can be detrimental to an entire class.
to the OP, i apologize if i'm assuming incorrectly, but that is my first thought. if that is what it is, just know the teachers' hands are tied. they can't control who is in their class and can only give their voice and documentation at a CSE.
i agree with all of this. I feel for your daughter and all of the other children in the class-including the one that is having such severe difficulties. Inclusion can be a great thing when children are appropriately placed. That being said, this type of thing can also happen in a regular ed class as well-placement is everything. I had a child in my class that was not appropriately placed (the parents insisted the child be placed in my class when it wasn't the best placement for the child) and we experienced many of the same problems you are now experiencing. It is good of you to speak up and be an advocate for your child and the class. Sometimes that is the only way things are changed and fixed. Good luck with everything, I can only imagine how hard this is for you and your daughter!
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| Posted 10/11/10 8:13 AM |
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BigB
C & J are 10!
Member since 6/05 5914 total posts
Name:
Stacey
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Re: It's a bigger battle than I thought....
Posted by nicrae
Posted by Jacksmommy
Posted by BigB
State law dictates what numbers can be in an inclusion class.....In NYS, an inclusion class can be 33 1/3% of the students in the class. So, in a class of 25, 8 students can be classified as special ed.
This is not true. . . There is no LEGAL definitiion of Inclusion!
actually it is true. My school was cited by the state because we weren't in compliance with STATE regulations. Our inclusion classes had more classified students than allowed based on ratio.
Actually, I was wrong, it isn't 33 1/3, it is 40% . This is from my NYS Education Law book:
"The number of students with disabilities in a Collaborative Team Teaching class may not exceed forty
percent of the total class register. Collaborative Team Teaching classes must adhere to general education class size
limits. Under Collaborative Team Teaching, classes that normally have a class size limit of twenty students will
increase to twenty-five students, with a maximum of ten students having disabilities."
And, districts cannot make their own caps because Federal Law trumps local law. NCLB has driven many changes in special education law. Under NCLB, Special Education students have the right to be educated in the Least Restrictive Environment.
Message edited 10/11/2010 9:08:51 AM.
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| Posted 10/11/10 9:05 AM |
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