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Blissful
Ultimate Expression of LOVE
Member since 6/08 4985 total posts
Name:
Maria
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
I'm not going to get into my personal beliefs but I DO want to point out and mention that doctors receive VERY LITTLE to NO TRAINING on vaccines in medical school.... They are given the CDC recommendations and told to follow this. ANy other information they get is from their own research...
I worked in a teaching hospital and this came straight from the professors and students mouths...
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Posted 12/23/09 11:52 AM  |
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Long Island Weddings
Long Island's Largest Bridal Resource |
pickles16
Real Estate Professional
Member since 11/07 17227 total posts
Name:
Jen
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by brownie
Posted by pinkandblue
Posted by pig22seal
He said "I will not have children walking around my office not having the MMR vaccine. These are serious illnesses when a young child has them."
My kind of doctor, thinking of the entire population of his patients
Posted by pig22seal
And this is why I am upset. I feel like I have "no control" over a decision that I feel is serious!
You DO have control, it just may involve switching doctors. 
ITA
COMPLETELY agree - my doctor's practice has a firm vaccination policy as well - truthfully, I like, and admire the fact that they stand strong on their convictions. I really wouldn't want to go to a practice that's wishy washy and bends to every parent's wish. If you don't like their policy, you can find a new practice that aligns more closely with your perspective
I couldn't agree more. My pediatrician is a man in his late 60's. He's been a pediatrician for longer than I have have been alive and stays up to date with EVERYTHING new, but he has very strong convictions on vaccinations, which I happen to agree with after all my research...I think if you personally don't agree with you Dr, you need to find someone that you can see eye to eye with....a pediatrician out of all Dr's I've chosen, has to be not only a choice with my head but a choice with my heart too since it's my child the're taking care of
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| Posted 12/23/09 12:07 PM |
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alexlynn7
Big brother to be!
Member since 9/06 6314 total posts
Name:
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
Posted by Blissful
I'm not going to get into my personal beliefs but I DO want to point out and mention that doctors receive VERY LITTLE to NO TRAINING on vaccines in medical school.... They are given the CDC recommendations and told to follow this. ANy other information they get is from their own research...
I worked in a teaching hospital and this came straight from the professors and students mouths...
please don't make this generalization. it's a blanket statement that is simply not true.
i have attended medical school. i can tell you that, at my particular institution, we had EXTENSIVE training on vaccines.
just for fun i just went outside my office and asked several colleagues, all doctors trained at different institutions, and all said that they received training on vaccines at several different points in their respective educations.
being fully informed and expert on the treatment he/she prescribes is EVERY doctor's duty and responsibility. imho, whoever feels that their doctor knows LESS than them (!) about vaccines should probably find another ped!
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| Posted 12/23/09 1:54 PM |
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Porrruss
Nya nya nya
Member since 5/05 11618 total posts
Name:
Amy
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
Posted by alexlynn7
Posted by Blissful
I'm not going to get into my personal beliefs but I DO want to point out and mention that doctors receive VERY LITTLE to NO TRAINING on vaccines in medical school.... They are given the CDC recommendations and told to follow this. ANy other information they get is from their own research...
I worked in a teaching hospital and this came straight from the professors and students mouths...
please don't make this generalization. it's a blanket statement that is simply not true.
i have attended medical school. i can tell you that, at my particular institution, we had EXTENSIVE training on vaccines.
just for fun i just went outside my office and asked several colleagues, all doctors trained at different institutions, and all said that they received training on vaccines at several different points in their respective educations.
being fully informed and expert on the treatment he/she prescribes is EVERY doctor's duty and responsibility. imho, whoever feels that their doctor knows LESS than them (!) about vaccines should probably find another ped!
Thank you so much for your perspective. It's good to finally have someone who can refute these claims that most medical doctors know less about vaccines than a bunch of women on a messageboard.
THANK YOU!!!!
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| Posted 12/23/09 2:08 PM |
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stickydust
Now a mommy of 2!!!
Member since 4/06 3164 total posts
Name:
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
Posted by alexlynn7
being fully informed and expert on the treatment he/she prescribes is EVERY doctor's duty and responsibility. imho, whoever feels that their doctor knows LESS than them (!) about vaccines should probably find another ped!
I completely agree with this!! I do extensive on all medical issues that I ever face, however, I am not a physician. If at any point I know more than ANY of my doctors regarding their general area of expertise - then that would signal to me that it is time to find a more knowledgeable doctor. I should not know more than my DC's pediatrician on any area of pediatrics!!! That would be a BIG problem in my book!!
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| Posted 12/23/09 2:15 PM |
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KateDevine
*
Member since 6/06 24950 total posts
Name:
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
Posted by Porrruss
Posted by alexlynn7
Posted by Blissful
I'm not going to get into my personal beliefs but I DO want to point out and mention that doctors receive VERY LITTLE to NO TRAINING on vaccines in medical school.... They are given the CDC recommendations and told to follow this. ANy other information they get is from their own research...
I worked in a teaching hospital and this came straight from the professors and students mouths...
please don't make this generalization. it's a blanket statement that is simply not true.
i have attended medical school. i can tell you that, at my particular institution, we had EXTENSIVE training on vaccines.
just for fun i just went outside my office and asked several colleagues, all doctors trained at different institutions, and all said that they received training on vaccines at several different points in their respective educations.
being fully informed and expert on the treatment he/she prescribes is EVERY doctor's duty and responsibility. imho, whoever feels that their doctor knows LESS than them (!) about vaccines should probably find another ped!
Thank you so much for your perspective. It's good to finally have someone who can refute these claims that most medical doctors know less about vaccines than a bunch of women on a messageboard.
THANK YOU!!!!
I agree with Amy, THANK YOU
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| Posted 12/23/09 2:16 PM |
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
Posted by Porrruss
Posted by alexlynn7
Posted by Blissful
I'm not going to get into my personal beliefs but I DO want to point out and mention that doctors receive VERY LITTLE to NO TRAINING on vaccines in medical school.... They are given the CDC recommendations and told to follow this. ANy other information they get is from their own research...
I worked in a teaching hospital and this came straight from the professors and students mouths...
please don't make this generalization. it's a blanket statement that is simply not true.
i have attended medical school. i can tell you that, at my particular institution, we had EXTENSIVE training on vaccines.
just for fun i just went outside my office and asked several colleagues, all doctors trained at different institutions, and all said that they received training on vaccines at several different points in their respective educations.
being fully informed and expert on the treatment he/she prescribes is EVERY doctor's duty and responsibility. imho, whoever feels that their doctor knows LESS than them (!) about vaccines should probably find another ped!
Thank you so much for your perspective. It's good to finally have someone who can refute these claims that most medical doctors know less about vaccines than a bunch of women on a messageboard.
THANK YOU!!!!
All I have to say to all of this is
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| Posted 12/23/09 2:22 PM |
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Goldi0218
My miracles!
Member since 12/05 23902 total posts
Name:
Leslie
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
Posted by KateDevine
Posted by Porrruss
Posted by alexlynn7
Posted by Blissful
I'm not going to get into my personal beliefs but I DO want to point out and mention that doctors receive VERY LITTLE to NO TRAINING on vaccines in medical school.... They are given the CDC recommendations and told to follow this. ANy other information they get is from their own research...
I worked in a teaching hospital and this came straight from the professors and students mouths...
please don't make this generalization. it's a blanket statement that is simply not true.
i have attended medical school. i can tell you that, at my particular institution, we had EXTENSIVE training on vaccines.
just for fun i just went outside my office and asked several colleagues, all doctors trained at different institutions, and all said that they received training on vaccines at several different points in their respective educations.
being fully informed and expert on the treatment he/she prescribes is EVERY doctor's duty and responsibility. imho, whoever feels that their doctor knows LESS than them (!) about vaccines should probably find another ped!
Thank you so much for your perspective. It's good to finally have someone who can refute these claims that most medical doctors know less about vaccines than a bunch of women on a messageboard.
THANK YOU!!!!
I agree with Amy, THANK YOU
Here here! This is why I never rely on ANY medical information from the internet whatsoever. If everyone else knows better, then we'd all be MD's/DO's. There is a reason why I did not go to med school.
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| Posted 12/23/09 2:26 PM |
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bpmom
Feeling Blessed
Member since 6/07 2963 total posts
Name:
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
Trust your gut -- find a new pediatrician.
I don't know where you're located, but we have a wonderful ped who doesn't question us or bully us with decisions for our children....he may not agree with our choices but he knows our children's care is up to us - the parents.
Good luck...
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| Posted 12/23/09 2:27 PM |
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Goldi0218
My miracles!
Member since 12/05 23902 total posts
Name:
Leslie
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
AND ALSO, does anyone think that with the high cost of malpractice insurance that a physician is going to take the chance that they will be sued? All it takes is that ONE parent who said "My doctor told me it was ok not to vaccinate" and THAT person alone would destroy a doctor's career G-d forbid a child got sick. It's the world we live in now. Doctors are sadly forced to cover their rears and that's not how it should be. JMO.
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| Posted 12/23/09 2:31 PM |
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MrsGmomof3
...
Member since 6/08 3290 total posts
Name:
Irrelevant
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
Posted by alexlynn7
Posted by Blissful
I'm not going to get into my personal beliefs but I DO want to point out and mention that doctors receive VERY LITTLE to NO TRAINING on vaccines in medical school.... They are given the CDC recommendations and told to follow this. ANy other information they get is from their own research...
I worked in a teaching hospital and this came straight from the professors and students mouths...
please don't make this generalization. it's a blanket statement that is simply not true.
i have attended medical school. i can tell you that, at my particular institution, we had EXTENSIVE training on vaccines.
just for fun i just went outside my office and asked several colleagues, all doctors trained at different institutions, and all said that they received training on vaccines at several different points in their respective educations.
being fully informed and expert on the treatment he/she prescribes is EVERY doctor's duty and responsibility. imho, whoever feels that their doctor knows LESS than them (!) about vaccines should probably find another ped!
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| Posted 12/23/09 2:37 PM |
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katiebug
I'll love you for always
Member since 2/08 4624 total posts
Name:
Katie
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
Posted by Goldi0218
AND ALSO, does anyone think that with the high cost of malpractice insurance that a physician is going to take the chance that they will be sued? All it takes is that ONE parent who said "My doctor told me it was ok not to vaccinate" and THAT person alone would destroy a doctor's career G-d forbid a child got sick. It's the world we live in now. Doctors are sadly forced to cover their rears and that's not how it should be. JMO.
I am a soon to be mother and just have to this statement. I have my own medical views, and not based on what I read on this internet, but I don't think enough people take the above statement into consideration.
Doctors HAVE to cover themselves. And rightfully so.
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| Posted 12/23/09 2:38 PM |
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itsbabytime
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 9644 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
Posted by Goldi0218
Posted by KateDevine
Posted by Porrruss
Posted by alexlynn7
Posted by Blissful
I'm not going to get into my personal beliefs but I DO want to point out and mention that doctors receive VERY LITTLE to NO TRAINING on vaccines in medical school.... They are given the CDC recommendations and told to follow this. ANy other information they get is from their own research...
I worked in a teaching hospital and this came straight from the professors and students mouths...
please don't make this generalization. it's a blanket statement that is simply not true.
i have attended medical school. i can tell you that, at my particular institution, we had EXTENSIVE training on vaccines.
just for fun i just went outside my office and asked several colleagues, all doctors trained at different institutions, and all said that they received training on vaccines at several different points in their respective educations.
being fully informed and expert on the treatment he/she prescribes is EVERY doctor's duty and responsibility. imho, whoever feels that their doctor knows LESS than them (!) about vaccines should probably find another ped!
Thank you so much for your perspective. It's good to finally have someone who can refute these claims that most medical doctors know less about vaccines than a bunch of women on a messageboard.
THANK YOU!!!!
I agree with Amy, THANK YOU
Here here! This is why I never rely on ANY medical information from the internet whatsoever. If everyone else knows better, then we'd all be MD's/DO's. There is a reason why I did not go to med school.
I agree with not relying on the info posted on these boards or anywhere else on the internet however, that said, I do think it is an important fact to note that Dr.'s do not know everything and that really you are your child's best advocate. Like I said in my post - some peds DO make it their business to educate themselves on vaccines but, I have encountered peds that do not - and, you would be surprised that they are some of the top in their field. I think that it is really a shame the parents that blindly rely on their peds when peds, like everyone else make mistakes and, further, they are really looking out for the masses and not your individual child per se.
In the end, everyone has to do what is right for their child. I think the point of the OP thread got lost in all of this - the point is - it is HER child and she should be able to decide what is best for them. That is the approach my ped takes (within reason of course) - I have to give all the vaccines but, if I feel I want to space them out more than he does or not give certain ones together etc. b/c of the way my DS's immune system reacts - he lets me do it - he gives me his perspective (and he is VERY informed on the vaccines and has decided on his own to only give 2 shots at a time and not the rotavirus etc. etc.) - but at the end of the day he always says "It's your child - YOUR choice." My child is vaccinated but, on MY terms - and I am more than happy with the decisions I have made - he is a VERY healthy kid and a very smart kid and at least I know I've done the best by him that I can.
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| Posted 12/23/09 2:43 PM |
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LoriH
There's no place like home
Member since 8/07 4110 total posts
Name:
Lori
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
It is your choice to find a pediatrician that is more inline with your personal views on this subject.
However, the reason you are able to delay or skip these vaccinations without major concern over the resurgence of these diseases is because a large majority of the population IS vaccinated. As these numbers decline, there will once again be outbreaks of these diseases.
Please make sure you are fully aware of the consequences of not vaccinating your children and the side effects associated with these diseases. Just because a child does not go to daycare or preschool, does not mean they cannot be exposed to these very contagious viruses. Unless your whole family lives in a bubble with no outside contact, they are susceptible to catching viruses.
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| Posted 12/23/09 3:28 PM |
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hmm8191
My loves
Member since 3/06 2908 total posts
Name:
Heather
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
DS should have gotten his MMR at his 12 month visit but didn't because he was sick.
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| Posted 12/23/09 3:28 PM |
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browneyedgirl
family is all that matters
Member since 6/06 6513 total posts
Name:
browneyes
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
Posted by Porrruss
Posted by alexlynn7
Posted by Blissful
I'm not going to get into my personal beliefs but I DO want to point out and mention that doctors receive VERY LITTLE to NO TRAINING on vaccines in medical school.... They are given the CDC recommendations and told to follow this. ANy other information they get is from their own research...
I worked in a teaching hospital and this came straight from the professors and students mouths...
please don't make this generalization. it's a blanket statement that is simply not true.
i have attended medical school. i can tell you that, at my particular institution, we had EXTENSIVE training on vaccines.
just for fun i just went outside my office and asked several colleagues, all doctors trained at different institutions, and all said that they received training on vaccines at several different points in their respective educations.
being fully informed and expert on the treatment he/she prescribes is EVERY doctor's duty and responsibility. imho, whoever feels that their doctor knows LESS than them (!) about vaccines should probably find another ped!
Thank you so much for your perspective. It's good to finally have someone who can refute these claims that most medical doctors know less about vaccines than a bunch of women on a messageboard.
THANK YOU!!!!
thank you!!!!!i will never understand relying on people's opinions on a message board over their own doctors.
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| Posted 12/23/09 4:02 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
Posted by Goldi0218
AND ALSO, does anyone think that with the high cost of malpractice insurance that a physician is going to take the chance that they will be sued? All it takes is that ONE parent who said "My doctor told me it was ok not to vaccinate" and THAT person alone would destroy a doctor's career G-d forbid a child got sick. It's the world we live in now. Doctors are sadly forced to cover their rears and that's not how it should be. JMO.
I'm all for vaccinations but my doctor would not be responsible in the event that my child contracts something from a vaccine. I initial a waiver for every shot.
In addition, I cannot sue the manufacturers of a vaccine. I would have to go through the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program , which only allows for damages up to a certain amount.
I do believe that doctors are more well-informed about vaccines than I am. I've read through the website & the anti-vaccine books (Shot in the Dark, as one example). One thing I will definitely say is a doctor does not know your child better than you do - so if they're under the weather, feel free to put off the vaccine.
It's my hope that my child will travel as much as I did, which was my main reason for vaccinating.
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| Posted 12/23/09 4:20 PM |
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Goldi0218
My miracles!
Member since 12/05 23902 total posts
Name:
Leslie
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
Posted by nrthshgrl
Posted by Goldi0218
AND ALSO, does anyone think that with the high cost of malpractice insurance that a physician is going to take the chance that they will be sued? All it takes is that ONE parent who said "My doctor told me it was ok not to vaccinate" and THAT person alone would destroy a doctor's career G-d forbid a child got sick. It's the world we live in now. Doctors are sadly forced to cover their rears and that's not how it should be. JMO.
I'm all for vaccinations but my doctor would not be responsible in the event that my child contracts something from a vaccine. I initial a waiver for every shot.
In addition, I cannot sue the manufacturers of a vaccine. I would have to go through the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program , which only allows for damages up to a certain amount.
I do believe that doctors are more well-informed about vaccines than I am. I've read through the website & the anti-vaccine books (Shot in the Dark, as one example). One thing I will definitely say is a doctor does not know your child better than you do - so if they're under the weather, feel free to put off the vaccine.
It's my hope that my child will travel as much as I did, which was my main reason for vaccinating.
I agree. My point was that if a doctor told a parent that it was ok NOT to vaccinate or to delay that vaccine, it is possible that a parent could try to sue them should their child contract a disease. I don't know if they'd have a case, but for the most part, parents rely on the expertise of their providers. I wonder if any doctors have waivers or statements for parents to sign should they choose to go that route.
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| Posted 12/23/09 5:35 PM |
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brownie
Baby #1 is here!
Member since 11/08 13903 total posts
Name:
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
for real!!!!
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| Posted 12/23/09 5:53 PM |
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BlackJack96
LIF Infant
Member since 6/08 245 total posts
Name:
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
Wow I didn't realize my response would generate so much discussion. A few final points:
1. Following the CDC like lemmings: If following the expert consensus derived from a thorough review of the current medical literature makes someone a lemming that you can call me a lemming. The AAP, CDC and other major bodies in the field of medicine make their recommendations with a lot of research and discussion. Most of us in the field teach evidence based medicine as the backbone of medical decision making. I mean you would honestly trust a pediatrician who said to you:" well a distinguished panel of infectious disease experts after reviewing the current clinical literature say we should follow this schedule, but me, Dr. Smith, in my suburban practice with google by my side tells me to vaccine this way..."? This isn't about getting sued, this is about following the best evidence.
2. Training on vaccines: Most folks in pediatrics are pretty well versed in the details of how vaccines work and what the current literature is.
3. No one knows my kid like I do: I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. However, I think a lot of parents use this a little too liberally to "go against the grain" of what's considered best practice. For example, if a parent said, asthma drug x works better for my kid than drug y and they explained with some empiirical data on how much the kid coughs at night and wheezes, etc, etc after being on both drugs. Even if y is the "prefered" drug I think most of us would take the parent at their word and stick with drug x. However, when a parent says I want to use Dr. Quack's delayed vaccine schedule instead of the CDC's schedule because well, I know my kid will react badly to the vaccines and I want to skip the MMR alltogether, that to me is a cop out not based in any shred of reasonable medical fact.
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| Posted 12/23/09 10:35 PM |
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brownie
Baby #1 is here!
Member since 11/08 13903 total posts
Name:
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
Posted by BlackJack96
Wow I didn't realize my response would generate so much discussion. A few final points:
1. Following the CDC like lemmings: If following the expert consensus derived from a thorough review of the current medical literature makes someone a lemming that you can call me a lemming. The AAP, CDC and other major bodies in the field of medicine make their recommendations with a lot of research and discussion. Most of us in the field teach evidence based medicine as the backbone of medical decision making. I mean you would honestly trust a pediatrician who said to you:" well a distinguished panel of infectious disease experts after reviewing the current clinical literature say we should follow this schedule, but me, Dr. Smith, in my suburban practice with google by my side tells me to vaccine this way..."? This isn't about getting sued, this is about following the best evidence.
2. Training on vaccines: Most folks in pediatrics are pretty well versed in the details of how vaccines work and what the current literature is.
3. No one knows my kid like I do: I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. However, I think a lot of parents use this a little too liberally to "go against the grain" of what's considered best practice. For example, if a parent said, asthma drug x works better for my kid than drug y and they explained with some empiirical data on how much the kid coughs at night and wheezes, etc, etc after being on both drugs. Even if y is the "prefered" drug I think most of us would take the parent at their word and stick with drug x. However, when a parent says I want to use Dr. Quack's delayed vaccine schedule instead of the CDC's schedule because well, I know my kid will react badly to the vaccines and I want to skip the MMR alltogether, that to me is a cop out not based in any shred of reasonable medical fact.
ITA w/you
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| Posted 12/23/09 11:00 PM |
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DancinBarefoot
06ers Rock!!
Member since 1/07 9534 total posts
Name:
The One My Mother Gave Me ;-)
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
Posted by BlackJack96
Wow I didn't realize my response would generate so much discussion. A few final points:
1. Following the CDC like lemmings: If following the expert consensus derived from a thorough review of the current medical literature makes someone a lemming that you can call me a lemming. The AAP, CDC and other major bodies in the field of medicine make their recommendations with a lot of research and discussion. Most of us in the field teach evidence based medicine as the backbone of medical decision making. I mean you would honestly trust a pediatrician who said to you:" well a distinguished panel of infectious disease experts after reviewing the current clinical literature say we should follow this schedule, but me, Dr. Smith, in my suburban practice with google by my side tells me to vaccine this way..."? This isn't about getting sued, this is about following the best evidence.
2. Training on vaccines: Most folks in pediatrics are pretty well versed in the details of how vaccines work and what the current literature is.
3. No one knows my kid like I do: I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. However, I think a lot of parents use this a little too liberally to "go against the grain" of what's considered best practice. For example, if a parent said, asthma drug x works better for my kid than drug y and they explained with some empiirical data on how much the kid coughs at night and wheezes, etc, etc after being on both drugs. Even if y is the "prefered" drug I think most of us would take the parent at their word and stick with drug x. However, when a parent says I want to use Dr. Quack's delayed vaccine schedule instead of the CDC's schedule because well, I know my kid will react badly to the vaccines and I want to skip the MMR alltogether, that to me is a cop out not based in any shred of reasonable medical fact.
With respect to Point # 1 . . . your original statement was:
2. As someone who deals with some pretty sick kids on a regular basis I am very passionately provaccine. My kids get all the shots on time, no quesitons asked. Aside from the "immunity of the waiting room" issue, any pediatrician who is not pro vaccine is not a child advocate and not someone I would want my children going to.
I stand by what I said there is a HUGE difference between being pro-vaccine and blindly following recommendations like a lemming. You personally may be in the medical field (as you implied) and be willing to move forward with your child's health care "no questions asked" but just because you have blind confidence doesn't mean parents as a whole shouldn't ask questions of their pediatricians AND have their individual concerns addressed rather than be dismissed or be told to take their business elsewhere.
Furthermore, the skeptical side of my nature does not in any way shape or form believe that the majority of the current recommendations of what is considered best practice in the medical field is the result of "thorough review of the current medical literature" rather than what the pharmaceutical industry wants us to think. Many doctors prescribe based on what rep just visited their office. Insurance companies have non-medical people reviewing cases to determine whether or not to cover services. Ten years ago there was not a single ad on television for prescription drugs, and now the only channel that is free from drug advertising is Noggin! Hypochondriacs of the world are delighting in the detailing of every single symptom and knowing just the right drug to take for it!
2. I would like to think that peds are well versed on how vaccines work, but how many can tell you exactly what the potential side effects are of each and every one? Do they know they can order preservative free vaccines? Do they choose to do so? If not, why not? Are they ALL up on the latest research regarding use of tylenol as a prophylaxis and the links to asthma? I could go on, but you get the point.
3. One more comment on best practice . . . once upon a time, all but one man believed the world was flat, and everyone who believed that thought Christopher Columbus was crazy. He set sail anyway and proved the skeptics wrong because he had the courage to challenge the populace. Parents who are brave enough to ask questions should be encouraged, not scoffed at or made to feel guilty or that they are not doing right by their child.
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| Posted 12/24/09 12:16 AM |
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
Posted by BlackJack96
Wow I didn't realize my response would generate so much discussion. A few final points:
1. Following the CDC like lemmings: If following the expert consensus derived from a thorough review of the current medical literature makes someone a lemming that you can call me a lemming. The AAP, CDC and other major bodies in the field of medicine make their recommendations with a lot of research and discussion. Most of us in the field teach evidence based medicine as the backbone of medical decision making. I mean you would honestly trust a pediatrician who said to you:" well a distinguished panel of infectious disease experts after reviewing the current clinical literature say we should follow this schedule, but me, Dr. Smith, in my suburban practice with google by my side tells me to vaccine this way..."? This isn't about getting sued, this is about following the best evidence.
2. Training on vaccines: Most folks in pediatrics are pretty well versed in the details of how vaccines work and what the current literature is.
3. No one knows my kid like I do: I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. However, I think a lot of parents use this a little too liberally to "go against the grain" of what's considered best practice. For example, if a parent said, asthma drug x works better for my kid than drug y and they explained with some empiirical data on how much the kid coughs at night and wheezes, etc, etc after being on both drugs. Even if y is the "prefered" drug I think most of us would take the parent at their word and stick with drug x. However, when a parent says I want to use Dr. Quack's delayed vaccine schedule instead of the CDC's schedule because well, I know my kid will react badly to the vaccines and I want to skip the MMR alltogether, that to me is a cop out not based in any shred of reasonable medical fact.
Perfectly, perfectly, PERFECTLY said!!! 
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| Posted 12/24/09 7:16 AM |
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alexlynn7
Big brother to be!
Member since 9/06 6314 total posts
Name:
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
OK. WOW.
i've already spoken my thoughts about this topic, and i thank those of you who considered and supported my viewpoint.
but i have one more comment that i can't let go.
i am so utterly disgusted and disappointed at many of the sentiments expressed by the women on this thread about medical doctors.
ijust to name a few, i've read that doctors:
-don't get the education they need to do their job
-follow what the CDC says without much thought or consideration
-prescribe drugs based on the latest pharm rep to visit the office
you have GOT to be KIDDING me.
maybe, just for a second, you might consider the possibility that your doctors actually CARE about the well-being of you and your children.
maybe we sacrifice YEARS of our lives, COUNTLESS sleepless nights, so that YOU can rest easy knowing that your child/mother/father/whomever is getting good care.
MAYBE - just MAYBE - we practice with integrity.
and maybe we're actually human beings and parents ourselves?? imagine that.
i find it unbelievably hypocritical that any one of you would go RUNNING to your pediatrician if your child was critically ill.
and, of course, he or she would BE THERE.
but then you feel it's okay to come on a board like this and criticize and bash with little to no respect.
disgustiing.
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| Posted 12/24/09 7:21 AM |
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Re: Just left PED and soooo UPSET!
Posted by DancinBarefoot
Posted by BlackJack96
Wow I didn't realize my response would generate so much discussion. A few final points:
1. Following the CDC like lemmings: If following the expert consensus derived from a thorough review of the current medical literature makes someone a lemming that you can call me a lemming. The AAP, CDC and other major bodies in the field of medicine make their recommendations with a lot of research and discussion. Most of us in the field teach evidence based medicine as the backbone of medical decision making. I mean you would honestly trust a pediatrician who said to you:" well a distinguished panel of infectious disease experts after reviewing the current clinical literature say we should follow this schedule, but me, Dr. Smith, in my suburban practice with google by my side tells me to vaccine this way..."? This isn't about getting sued, this is about following the best evidence.
2. Training on vaccines: Most folks in pediatrics are pretty well versed in the details of how vaccines work and what the current literature is.
3. No one knows my kid like I do: I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. However, I think a lot of parents use this a little too liberally to "go against the grain" of what's considered best practice. For example, if a parent said, asthma drug x works better for my kid than drug y and they explained with some empiirical data on how much the kid coughs at night and wheezes, etc, etc after being on both drugs. Even if y is the "prefered" drug I think most of us would take the parent at their word and stick with drug x. However, when a parent says I want to use Dr. Quack's delayed vaccine schedule instead of the CDC's schedule because well, I know my kid will react badly to the vaccines and I want to skip the MMR alltogether, that to me is a cop out not based in any shred of reasonable medical fact.
With respect to Point # 1 . . . your original statement was:
2. As someone who deals with some pretty sick kids on a regular basis I am very passionately provaccine. My kids get all the shots on time, no quesitons asked. Aside from the "immunity of the waiting room" issue, any pediatrician who is not pro vaccine is not a child advocate and not someone I would want my children going to.
I stand by what I said there is a HUGE difference between being pro-vaccine and blindly following recommendations like a lemming. You personally may be in the medical field (as you implied) and be willing to move forward with your child's health care "no questions asked" but just because you have blind confidence doesn't mean parents as a whole shouldn't ask questions of their pediatricians AND have their individual concerns addressed rather than be dismissed or be told to take their business elsewhere.
Furthermore, the skeptical side of my nature does not in any way shape or form believe that the majority of the current recommendations of what is considered best practice in the medical field is the result of "thorough review of the current medical literature" rather than what the pharmaceutical industry wants us to think. Many doctors prescribe based on what rep just visited their office. Insurance companies have non-medical people reviewing cases to determine whether or not to cover services. Ten years ago there was not a single ad on television for prescription drugs, and now the only channel that is free from drug advertising is Noggin! Hypochondriacs of the world are delighting in the detailing of every single symptom and knowing just the right drug to take for it!
2. I would like to think that peds are well versed on how vaccines work, but how many can tell you exactly what the potential side effects are of each and every one? Do they know they can order preservative free vaccines? Do they choose to do so? If not, why not? Are they ALL up on the latest research regarding use of tylenol as a prophylaxis and the links to asthma? I could go on, but you get the point.
3. One more comment on best practice . . . once upon a time, all but one man believed the world was flat, and everyone who believed that thought Christopher Columbus was crazy. He set sail anyway and proved the skeptics wrong because he had the courage to challenge the populace. Parents who are brave enough to ask questions should be encouraged, not scoffed at or made to feel guilty or that they are not doing right by their child.
We have had a lot of reps visit my last practice (North Shore LIJ) - the medical community doesn't get easily swayed by each rep that walks through the door - they rely on research as well.
My issue is when Christopher columbus empirically proves over and over again that the world is round, and he is faced with:
who funded his trip?
Who paid for his ships?
Why should we trust this man in a boat when my gut is telling me the world could still be flat, rectangular, or possibly some other shape?
Science is continuously challenged - that is good. Hypotheses are challenges.
Hypotheses ask, "We know we are told this works. We have seen this work - but how can we DISPROVE this theory just in case?" Hypotheses don't set out to prove - they set out to disprove using every variable possible! Once it sets out to prove, it skews the results!
The beauty of science and research is that it's basis is not on doubt, beliefs, or skepticism. It is based on black and white numbers. Data. Over and over again. And the numbers and data are compared continuously. No one ever falls asleep at the wheel. No one becomes complacent, wipes their hands and says - well, that answers THAT. The questions are asked in different ways, and the research is carried out in every way possible given the controls. The thing is, the answers keep coming out the same, no matter how much the researchers try to eliminate factors and disprove again and again.
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| Posted 12/24/09 7:28 AM |
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