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Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3073 total posts
Name:
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Legal ? re: time clock
Every employee (exempt or not) has to punch in and out each day through an online program.
Memorial Day weekend, we closed at noon. Everyone punched out at approximately 12:00 pm. The office manager went in and adjusted everyone's punch out time to reflect EXACTLY 8 hours from your punch in time. In other words, if you punched in at 8:57 and punched out at 12:00, she changed your punch out time to 4:57.
Everyone got paid for working a full day, but I was under the impression that it was illegal for her to do this.
Several employees had come in early so where they would normally get paid for working 8 hours and say 15 minutes, they are now getting paid for only 8 hours. OT does not have to be approved here unless it is more than 2 hours a pay period.
Question: is it legal for a manager to adjust your time card without your knowledge or consent?
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Posted 5/31/13 9:49 AM  |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
Name:
That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
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Legal ? re: time clock
How could any employee expect 15 minutes of overtime when they only worked a 4 hour and 15 minute day? Seems pretty ridiculous to me.
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| Posted 5/31/13 9:56 AM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: Legal ? re: time clock
Posted by Mill188
Every employee (exempt or not) has to punch in and out each day through an online program.
Memorial Day weekend, we closed at noon. Everyone punched out at approximately 12:00 pm. The office manager went in and adjusted everyone's punch out time to reflect EXACTLY 8 hours from your punch in time. In other words, if you punched in at 8:57 and punched out at 12:00, she changed your punch out time to 4:57.
Everyone got paid for working a full day, but I was under the impression that it was illegal for her to do this.
Several employees had come in early so where they would normally get paid for working 8 hours and say 15 minutes, they are now getting paid for only 8 hours. OT does not have to be approved here unless it is more than 2 hours a pay period.
Question: is it legal for a manager to adjust your time card without your knowledge or consent?
Did the employees who come in to work early WORK the 8 hours & 15 minutes?
If not, they would not be entitled to OT.
As for adjusting the time card without your consent, as long as they aren't shorting you the time, I see no legal issue with it but I'm not an employment attorney.
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| Posted 5/31/13 9:57 AM |
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Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3073 total posts
Name:
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Re: Legal ? re: time clock
Let me add this dislcaimer: This doesn't affect me because I'm exempt, but the staff is going nuts over it and it's causing quite a few problems.
We didn't know until after 9 am that the firm was closing early. Everyone reported to work expecting to work a full day.
The firm is very relaxed and really doesn't care how you do your hours as long as you work your required amount. So, for example, if on Thursday you worked 7.5 hours and you came in on Friday 30 minutes early to make up that 1/2 hour, it would be allowed.
In addition, they do not get OT until working 45 hours because they get "paid" for their lunch hour even though everyone takes one.
Our OM isn't in today and when she is, she's extremely difficult. Everyone is coming into my office to b!tch to me and I am trying to calm them down. I'm using the "wait till Monday and then say something" line, but just curious as to whether or not they have a valid complaint.
I also want to add that this is a professional office and the staff is a really hardworking bunch, so I don't think anyone is tyring to "get over."
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| Posted 5/31/13 10:07 AM |
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gdubs
This baby is awesome!
Member since 11/10 2467 total posts
Name:
Gina
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Legal ? re: time clock
In a closing early situation such as before a holiday weekend, snow days etc yes, they can adjust it. If the employee actually worked 8 hours and 15 minutes and they changed it to 8 hours that would be illegal. However since no one actually worked any OT and basically got a free half day how could they think they were entitled to OT?
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| Posted 5/31/13 10:10 AM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
Name:
That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
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Legal ? re: time clock
It sounds like the employees who came in early thinking they are going to bank an extra 15 or 30 minutes of OT are pissy because now they worked an extra 15 minutes for "nothing" due to the early close.
Too bad so sad IMO. They should be happy they have a job that pays occasional OT in the first place.
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| Posted 5/31/13 10:13 AM |
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gdubs
This baby is awesome!
Member since 11/10 2467 total posts
Name:
Gina
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Re: Legal ? re: time clock
Posted by Mill188
We didn't know until after 9 am that the firm was closing early. Everyone reported to work expecting to work a full day.
A lot of offices do this. Companies see it as a nice thing to do for their workers, a little surprise to let them start their weekend early.
I find it interesting that you have people complaining that they were given a free half day. They need to look at the bigger picture here. Whether or not the office manager is difficult they still got paid for 3.5-4 hours they didn't work.
I work in HR and never once in a decade of doing this has anyone ever complained that we got out early. This is really so weird to me no matter how it was communicated to the staff.
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| Posted 5/31/13 10:14 AM |
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Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3073 total posts
Name:
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Re: Legal ? re: time clock
Posted by ave1024
It sounds like the employees who came in early thinking they are going to bank an extra 15 or 30 minutes of OT are pissy because now they worked an extra 15 minutes for "nothing" due to the early close.
Too bad so sad IMO. They should be happy they have a job that pays occasional OT in the first place.
I honestly don't think it's that anyone is expecting to get paid OT. There were a few people that needed the extra time to get to their 40 hour work-week, which is permissible under our employee handbook. I agree that anyone who came in early that day, should suck it up, or they could have left at 11:45 am.
My AA is actually the sticky-wicket. She left at 4:20 on Thursday for a valid reason, which I signed off on and approved. She stayed until 12:20 on Friday (and clocked out at 12:23), which I saw from her time card which she had printed out and left on my desk for me Friday when I got back to the office after a meeting. However, the OM changed her clock out time to 12:00. Everyone else in the office was already gone, she stayed later than our closing time to make up time. I got back to the office by 1 pm and it was a ghost town.
I'm trying to determine if I should go to battle for her or tell her that there was nothing illegal done. She's a great employee and the best assistant ever. If I have to pay her out of my own pocket in order to make her paycheck this pay period whole, I will, but I'm concerned about this happening to her again.
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| Posted 5/31/13 10:20 AM |
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Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3073 total posts
Name:
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Re: Legal ? re: time clock
Posted by gdubs
A lot of offices do this. Companies see it as a nice thing to do for their workers, a little surprise to let them start their weekend early.
I find it interesting that you have people complaining that they were given a free half day. They need to look at the bigger picture here. Whether or not the office manager is difficult they still got paid for 3.5-4 hours they didn't work.
I do too actually. When I was a non-exempt employee, I never would have complained about it. 
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| Posted 5/31/13 10:24 AM |
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Pomegranate5
LIF Adult
Member since 2/11 4798 total posts
Name:
Pomegranate5
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Re: Legal ? re: time clock
So these employees are upset because instead of getting paid for an extra 5 hours that they didn't work they are only getting paid for 4 hours 45 minutes?
i have no idea about the legality of it, but it's the kind of complain that is going to rub your boss the wrong way and I don't get why anyone would be stupid enough to do that over a lost 15 minutes.
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| Posted 5/31/13 10:26 AM |
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Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3073 total posts
Name:
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Re: Legal ? re: time clock
I think they're upset because they all hate the OM - but that's another story.
I agree that no one should be complaining if they came in early.
I'm on the fence in a situation like my AA. She stayed to make up time after I had signed off on it. She worked longer than anyone else that day and still is getting paid the same amount. I love her to death, but don't know what to tell her. She's upset because had she known, she would have stayed late either Wednesday or come in early Thursday to make up the time.
Help! I don't know what to say to her and she's really upset.
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| Posted 5/31/13 10:31 AM |
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Pomegranate5
LIF Adult
Member since 2/11 4798 total posts
Name:
Pomegranate5
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Re: Legal ? re: time clock
In the case of your AA it does sound like an unfortunate situation, especially since she stayed LATE and is now losing the time that she needed. I guess I do see why it might be an issue.
I guess I would explain the situation to the OM and ask them to correct the time card this one time. I suppose you'll have to do it for everyone that was also affected. And just tell everyone that this is a one time thing. In the future they will just have to suck it up if they lose out on some OT.
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| Posted 5/31/13 10:43 AM |
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Cacarina
Two girls!
Member since 12/09 2971 total posts
Name:
Cari
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Legal ? re: time clock
How much time is she missing?
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| Posted 5/31/13 10:44 AM |
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Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3073 total posts
Name:
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Re: Legal ? re: time clock
She came in 20 minutes early on Friday and stayed 20 minutes later. She was missing a total of 40 minutes which she thought she made up on Friday.
She is now concerned that they are going to take some PTO from her for that 40 minutes. She's a single mom (a widow) and she trieds to hold onto whatever PTO she gets for days off with the kids, etc.
She said it's not so much the paycheck as it's her PTO bank.
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| Posted 5/31/13 10:51 AM |
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VikingChick
LIF Adult
Member since 5/11 1024 total posts
Name:
Anna
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Re: Legal ? re: time clock
To answer the original question, I agree with the pps that it is legal to adjust time cards to benefit the employees- i.e. if everyone worked 4 hours, and were clocked out as if they worked 8 hours there is no problem.
However, as to your AA, she should not be penalized the 20 mins, since she actually did make up the time. I would explain the situation to the OM. Maybe she can just add the time back to Thursday, or add in the extra 20 mins for Friday. However, I don't know that this is a "legal issue" since she has been paid for all the time she worked, but I see this more as a fairness issue.
HTH!
Let us know what happens!
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| Posted 5/31/13 10:52 AM |
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Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3073 total posts
Name:
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Re: Legal ? re: time clock
Posted by anskiv
To answer the original question, I agree with the pps that it is legal to adjust time cards to benefit the employees- i.e. if everyone worked 4 hours, and were clocked out as if they worked 8 hours there is no problem.
However, as to your AA, she should not be penalized the 20 mins, since she actually did make up the time. I would explain the situation to the OM. Maybe she can just add the time back to Thursday, or add in the extra 20 mins for Friday. However, I don't know that this is a "legal issue" since she has been paid for all the time she worked, but I see this more as a fairness issue.
HTH!
Let us know what happens!
I will - thanks for everyone's help. So for my own clarification, it's ok to adjust a time clock "up" but not "down?" I'm going to have to gear up for battle with the OM on Monday morning 
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| Posted 5/31/13 10:59 AM |
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Cacarina
Two girls!
Member since 12/09 2971 total posts
Name:
Cari
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Legal ? re: time clock
Good luck - sounds like if you can protect your AA's PTO all will be okay.
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| Posted 5/31/13 11:10 AM |
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VikingChick
LIF Adult
Member since 5/11 1024 total posts
Name:
Anna
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Re: Legal ? re: time clock
Posted by Mill188
Posted by anskiv
To answer the original question, I agree with the pps that it is legal to adjust time cards to benefit the employees- i.e. if everyone worked 4 hours, and were clocked out as if they worked 8 hours there is no problem.
However, as to your AA, she should not be penalized the 20 mins, since she actually did make up the time. I would explain the situation to the OM. Maybe she can just add the time back to Thursday, or add in the extra 20 mins for Friday. However, I don't know that this is a "legal issue" since she has been paid for all the time she worked, but I see this more as a fairness issue.
HTH!
Let us know what happens!
I will - thanks for everyone's help. So for my own clarification, it's ok to adjust a time clock "up" but not "down?" I'm going to have to gear up for battle with the OM on Monday morning
yes, I think that is correct. You DEFINITELY cannot adjust an employee's time down, unless it is to adjust it to the actual time worked (e.g. if the clock somehow made an error, or if the employee clocked in earlier than work began or clocked out later then she stopped work).
Hopefully OM won't see it as a battle, but merely adjusting to reflect actual time worked!!
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| Posted 5/31/13 11:36 AM |
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Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3073 total posts
Name:
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Re: Legal ? re: time clock
Thanks again everyone! 
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| Posted 5/31/13 11:45 AM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: Legal ? re: time clock
If I were them, I would be really hesitant to complain about time cards being upped by 4 hours.
If they make a case where they're complaining to the (bitchy) office manager, she may to the hourly staff that they don't get paid for the 4 hours they didn't work. End of story.
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| Posted 5/31/13 11:53 AM |
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Domino
Always My Miracle
Member since 9/05 9923 total posts
Name:
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Re: Legal ? re: time clock
I work in a law office. As per our handbook:
All employees at work that day (closing early) will be credited with the time from when the office closed to 5:00pm
Employees should write down on their timesheet the time they left, not 5pm or their regularly scheduled time. This will enable payroll to ascertain if you are entitled to additional pay for time worked beyond the time the office closed without having to call for verification.
Example: Office closes at 3:00pm
Employee B works from 9-5 with one hour lunch (Employee stays past early closing at 3:00):
9-5 = 8 hours
lunch = -1 hour
3-5 = +2 hours
Total time = 9 hours
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| Posted 5/31/13 1:40 PM |
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Mill188
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 3073 total posts
Name:
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Re: Legal ? re: time clock
Posted by Domino
I work in a law office. As per our handbook:
All employees at work that day (closing early) will be credited with the time from when the office closed to 5:00pm
Employees should write down on their timesheet the time they left, not 5pm or their regularly scheduled time. This will enable payroll to ascertain if you are entitled to additional pay for time worked beyond the time the office closed without having to call for verification.
Example: Office closes at 3:00pm
Employee B works from 9-5 with one hour lunch (Employee stays past early closing at 3:00):
9-5 = 8 hours
lunch = -1 hour
3-5 = +2 hours
Total time = 9 hours
This is a law firm too and that's the way it always was but our new handbook doesn't have that language....it's missing tons of stuff (some of it beneficial, some not ) - this new OM is just awful.
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| Posted 5/31/13 2:27 PM |
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