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RMA9728
LIF Adolescent
Member since 1/08 863 total posts
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Need some help with CPSE meeting / for next year
My ds has a severe speech delay. Right now he is in a language based preschool and doing well. He is 3 1/2 (will be 4 in September).
Although he has improved since last year, he still has a way to go and needs a lot of intense speech therapy (IMO).
Right now he is going 5 1/2 days and receiving speech 2 x for 30 mins. They re-evaluated him and the therapists are recommending he continue with school and go to 3 days a week speech.
I really think he needs more than that at least 4 days. Last year when they evaluated him he was on a 9 month expressive level, now he has gone up to a 1 year 9 month level. I know he has improved, but the fact that he will be 4 in September and he is not even hitting a 2 year level with speech worries me. Do you think CPSE will give me 4 days, is there something else I should be asking for?
I also really think he may have verbal apraxia, but the therapists are still telling me it's too early to tell especially since he just started with his words.
Any thoughts? Thanks
Message edited 4/18/2009 8:20:38 AM.
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Posted 4/18/09 8:15 AM  |
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Re: Need some help with CPSE meeting / for next year
I think you should def. push for as much as possible, and try to get the therapist to do the same.
As for the apraxia, I know 2 children who were diagnosed at 3, so I'm pretty sure he is not too young.
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| Posted 4/18/09 8:28 AM |
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FranM
And so it goes....
Member since 9/05 2217 total posts
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Re: Need some help with CPSE meeting / for next year
Are you working with a social worker? They often have a good feel for what will be approved. Are you continuing services throught the summer?
I have always asked for a little more than I wanted so there is something that I cna "give up". I have pushed back hard on any decrease in service if I didnt feel DS was ready. This has worked well so far.
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| Posted 4/18/09 8:35 AM |
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Diane
Hope is Contagious....catch it
Member since 5/05 30683 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: Need some help with CPSE meeting / for next year
Definitely push for more if that is what you want.
We just had Christopher's CPSE meeting on Friday, and I was ready to fight for more, because he will be tranisitioning to Preschool in Septemeber. The board memebers actually gave him more speech and OT without me bringing out the claws
I was so excited.
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| Posted 4/18/09 9:28 AM |
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EmmaNick
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Member since 12/06 16001 total posts
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Re: Need some help with CPSE meeting / for next year
You have to be VERY persistent and push for what YOU think he needs. If they say no, you say okay lets table the meeting and I'll need to get an advocate. Then they might give in.
You have the best interest of your child in mind, most districts have the best interst of their $$$ in mind. You would be surprised at how often parents have to fight for what the kids NEED. I attended a seminar with a special education attorney recently, and it was very enlightening.
Good luck!!
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| Posted 4/18/09 9:43 AM |
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RMA9728
LIF Adolescent
Member since 1/08 863 total posts
Name:
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Re: Need some help with CPSE meeting / for next year
Thanks everyone for responding so quickly. I did speak with the social worker and she said they are recommending summer school and going from 2 to 3 days for speech. She said even though he is still behind, b/c he went up so much in his scores, she is not sure that he will get 4 days of speech. I am going to ask for it though.
I just want to make sure I'm doing everything in my power to get him what he needs.
As far as the apraxia, his SLP says she thinks it is not fair to "judge" him yet since he just started saying a few words. She feels we have to give him a bit more time to catch up before we "jump" the gun on labeling him with apraxia. She feels that he probably doesn't have it, but he just is very severely delayed in speech and that with continued therapy he'll continue to improve.
I was thinking of getting an outside eval, maybe with a speech therapist who is spefically trained with apraxia and see what they say. What do you think?
Message edited 4/18/2009 9:48:36 AM.
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| Posted 4/18/09 9:46 AM |
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Porrruss
Nya nya nya
Member since 5/05 11618 total posts
Name:
Amy
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Re: Need some help with CPSE meeting / for next year
Posted by EmmaNick
You have to be VERY persistent and push for what YOU think he needs. If they say no, you say okay lets table the meeting and I'll need to get an advocate. Then they might give in.
You have the best interest of your child in mind, most districts have the best interst of their $$$ in mind. You would be surprised at how often parents have to fight for what the kids NEED. I attended a seminar with a special education attorney recently, and it was very enlightening.
Good luck!!
I have to be honest- this really disheartens me. I'm a provider and I determine the amount of services needed based on documented data, observations, and my professional opinion. I have NEVER witheld services to a child because of budget- nor have I ever been pressured to do so. To do that is unethical. To imply it is insulting.
Do parents always agree with me? No. Does that mean I increase services to make the parent happy or because they've hired an advocate? Not if I've done my job (and I always do) and have the documentation to support it.
I am not saying to never ask for more services. Of course the parent's input is needed on the team. But parents also need to realize that the service providers are trained pofessionals and know what amount of services are appropriate.
I just hate the "us and against them" attitude some people come to the table with (both parents AND service providers).
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| Posted 4/18/09 10:21 AM |
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Porrruss
Nya nya nya
Member since 5/05 11618 total posts
Name:
Amy
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Re: Need some help with CPSE meeting / for next year
Message edited 9/12/2009 2:20:40 PM.
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| Posted 4/18/09 10:46 AM |
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RMA9728
LIF Adolescent
Member since 1/08 863 total posts
Name:
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Re: Need some help with CPSE meeting / for next year
Posted by Porrruss
[
Here's my thought on this. What are you hoping will change if a private SLP diagnosis apraxia?
To properly diagnose apraxia both verbal AND nonverbal tasks need to be assessed. A hallmark of the apraxia diagnosis is a large discrepency between receptive and expressive language (usually scores within normal limits for receptive and very delayed expressive) + inconsistent speech sound subsitutions. For example, the child might say "dog", then in the next sentence say "gog", then in the next sentence say "kok". If he's JUST starting to create words, perhaps giving him some more time is best- ESPECIALLY since he's receiving services.
I will say this though- the speech language pathologist is the most qualified person to diagnose apraxia, so if you go the route of spending $$ on a private evaluation, please make sure it's an SLP. I recently had a parent shell out $$$$$ on private evaluations that were essentially invalid because the tests (psych, speech, OT) were done by a person who was only qualified to assess academic performance.
have you checked outApraxia kids
It's a fantastic resource for both parents and service providers.
Good luck to you!
This is exactly what he is starting to do, that's why I'm worried. My dh and I are both teachers and we always support the therapists....so far we haven't had a problem with our district giving us the needed help. I thought maybe if I find a SLP with the experience working / diagnosising apraxia then maybe we would be able to get the intense therapy that my ds would need. His SLP is wonderful and has 17+ experience, but she has told me that apraxia is not her area of expertise and she's only worked with 3 kids who have had it. Thanks again. I'm going to see what happens on Wednesday at the meeting.
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| Posted 4/18/09 12:44 PM |
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EmmaNick
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Member since 12/06 16001 total posts
Name:
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Re: Need some help with CPSE meeting / for next year
Posted by Porrruss
Posted by EmmaNick
You have to be VERY persistent and push for what YOU think he needs. If they say no, you say okay lets table the meeting and I'll need to get an advocate. Then they might give in.
You have the best interest of your child in mind, most districts have the best interst of their $$$ in mind. You would be surprised at how often parents have to fight for what the kids NEED. I attended a seminar with a special education attorney recently, and it was very enlightening.
Good luck!!
I have to be honest- this really disheartens me. I'm a provider and I determine the amount of services needed based on documented data, observations, and my professional opinion. I have NEVER witheld services to a child because of budget- nor have I ever been pressured to do so. To do that is unethical. To imply it is insulting.
Do parents always agree with me? No. Does that mean I increase services to make the parent happy or because they've hired an advocate? Not if I've done my job (and I always do) and have the documentation to support it.
I am not saying to never ask for more services. Of course the parent's input is needed on the team. But parents also need to realize that the service providers are trained pofessionals and know what amount of services are appropriate.
I just hate the "us and against them" attitude some people come to the table with (both parents AND service providers).
Not sure why the defensiveness. I gave my answer based on *my* experience, the experience of MANY parents I know of children with special needs, and the information I have been given from an attorney. I realize not all therapists and districts have their bottom line in mind, but I can assure you that many do. Especially once they enter elementary school.
I personally think it's absurd to tell a parent to not push for what *they* think their child needs. We all know our own children best, not the educators that see them for a few hours a day.
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| Posted 4/18/09 9:13 PM |
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Porrruss
Nya nya nya
Member since 5/05 11618 total posts
Name:
Amy
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Re: Need some help with CPSE meeting / for next year
Posted by EmmaNick
Posted by Porrruss
Posted by EmmaNick
You have to be VERY persistent and push for what YOU think he needs. If they say no, you say okay lets table the meeting and I'll need to get an advocate. Then they might give in.
You have the best interest of your child in mind, most districts have the best interst of their $$$ in mind. You would be surprised at how often parents have to fight for what the kids NEED. I attended a seminar with a special education attorney recently, and it was very enlightening.
Good luck!!
I have to be honest- this really disheartens me. I'm a provider and I determine the amount of services needed based on documented data, observations, and my professional opinion. I have NEVER witheld services to a child because of budget- nor have I ever been pressured to do so. To do that is unethical. To imply it is insulting.
Do parents always agree with me? No. Does that mean I increase services to make the parent happy or because they've hired an advocate? Not if I've done my job (and I always do) and have the documentation to support it.
I am not saying to never ask for more services. Of course the parent's input is needed on the team. But parents also need to realize that the service providers are trained pofessionals and know what amount of services are appropriate.
I just hate the "us and against them" attitude some people come to the table with (both parents AND service providers).
Not sure why the defensiveness. I gave my answer based on *my* experience, the experience of MANY parents I know of children with special needs, and the information I have been given from an attorney. I realize not all therapists and districts have their bottom line in mind, but I can assure you that many do. Especially once they enter elementary school.
I personally think it's absurd to tell a parent to not push for what *they* think their child needs. We all know our own children best, not the educators that see them for a few hours a day.
Not sure where you see me being defensive? Also not sure where you see me advising against asking for more services.
Of course a parent should ask for what they think a child needs, but at the same time there needs to be some trust in the providers on the team. To use the threat of an advocate to get people to "give in" just seems harsh and counter-productive to having a good relationship with the team.
The whole, "you don't know my child" argument is so unfair. I DO know those children. I spend hours with them in a totally different environment than their parents see them in- so I should think that my professional opinion SHOULD carry some weight.
It's obvious you've had a bad experience- and for that I'm sorry. MY reason for posting was to give insight into why I as a service provider don't always agree with a parent's request to increase services. I felt you were implying *I* (as in the service provider) don't increase services for unethical reasons and wanted to respond to it.
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| Posted 4/18/09 10:19 PM |
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EmmaNick
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Member since 12/06 16001 total posts
Name:
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Re: Need some help with CPSE meeting / for next year
Posted by Porrruss
Posted by EmmaNick
Posted by Porrruss
Posted by EmmaNick
You have to be VERY persistent and push for what YOU think he needs. If they say no, you say okay lets table the meeting and I'll need to get an advocate. Then they might give in.
You have the best interest of your child in mind, most districts have the best interst of their $$$ in mind. You would be surprised at how often parents have to fight for what the kids NEED. I attended a seminar with a special education attorney recently, and it was very enlightening.
Good luck!!
I have to be honest- this really disheartens me. I'm a provider and I determine the amount of services needed based on documented data, observations, and my professional opinion. I have NEVER witheld services to a child because of budget- nor have I ever been pressured to do so. To do that is unethical. To imply it is insulting.
Do parents always agree with me? No. Does that mean I increase services to make the parent happy or because they've hired an advocate? Not if I've done my job (and I always do) and have the documentation to support it.
I am not saying to never ask for more services. Of course the parent's input is needed on the team. But parents also need to realize that the service providers are trained pofessionals and know what amount of services are appropriate.
I just hate the "us and against them" attitude some people come to the table with (both parents AND service providers).
Not sure why the defensiveness. I gave my answer based on *my* experience, the experience of MANY parents I know of children with special needs, and the information I have been given from an attorney. I realize not all therapists and districts have their bottom line in mind, but I can assure you that many do. Especially once they enter elementary school.
I personally think it's absurd to tell a parent to not push for what *they* think their child needs. We all know our own children best, not the educators that see them for a few hours a day.
Not sure where you see me being defensive? Also not sure where you see me advising against asking for more services.
Of course a parent should ask for what they think a child needs, but at the same time there needs to be some trust in the providers on the team. To use the threat of an advocate to get people to "give in" just seems harsh and counter-productive to having a good relationship with the team.
The whole, "you don't know my child" argument is so unfair. I DO know those children. I spend hours with them in a totally different environment than their parents see them in- so I should think that my professional opinion SHOULD carry some weight.
It's obvious you've had a bad experience- and for that I'm sorry. MY reason for posting was to give insight into why I as a service provider don't always agree with a parent's request to increase services. I felt you were implying *I* (as in the service provider) don't increase services for unethical reasons and wanted to respond to it.
I understand what you are saying.
I actually have not had a "bad" experience with the districts my son has been in, I have just learned how they operate.
Good luck OP, let us know how it goes!
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| Posted 4/18/09 10:26 PM |
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Porrruss
Nya nya nya
Member since 5/05 11618 total posts
Name:
Amy
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Re: Need some help with CPSE meeting / for next year
Posted by RMA9728
This is exactly what he is starting to do, that's why I'm worried. My dh and I are both teachers and we always support the therapists....so far we haven't had a problem with our district giving us the needed help. I thought maybe if I find a SLP with the experience working / diagnosising apraxia then maybe we would be able to get the intense therapy that my ds would need. His SLP is wonderful and has 17+ experience, but she has told me that apraxia is not her area of expertise and she's only worked with 3 kids who have had it. Thanks again. I'm going to see what happens on Wednesday at the meeting.
Will your insurance cover an assessment? If so, go for it!
There are a number of programs available for SLPs to learn how to treat apraxia. The problem with apraxia is that what may work for one child might not work for another. Some kids DO respond well to typical articulation training, while a whole language approach might benefit others. PROMPT is a popular therapy used in NY as well.
Apraxia has become my latest *obsession* as it seems LOTS of kids are being diagnosed with it lately. I currently have 3 kids in my caseload who have "pure" apraxia (with no other deficits) and they are fascinating. BTW- they are all in the older grades (3rd-5th)and you would NEVER know how delayed their speech was when they were in pre-K. Now they each have minor speech distortions that are very hard to pick up on unless you're paying attention.
GL with your meeting.
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| Posted 4/18/09 10:39 PM |
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RMA9728
LIF Adolescent
Member since 1/08 863 total posts
Name:
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Re: Need some help with CPSE meeting / for next year
Posted by Porrruss
Apraxia has become my latest *obsession* as it seems LOTS of kids are being diagnosed with it lately. I currently have 3 kids in my caseload who have "pure" apraxia (with no other deficits) and they are fascinating. BTW- they are all in the older grades (3rd-5th)and you would NEVER know how delayed their speech was when they were in pre-K. Now they each have minor speech distortions that are very hard to pick up on unless you're paying attention.
GL with your meeting.
That's what a few people have told me that apraxia usually is not diagnosed until later, but then while doing some research myself, it says that it is better to get the extensive therapy much earlier for a better outcome. They do PROMPT with him now. Is there anything else that works with children who have this? Or is it more about the amount of therapy they receive? Thanks again everyone for all your help!
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| Posted 4/19/09 7:58 AM |
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Angelheart
LIF Infant
Member since 2/09 222 total posts
Name:
Cathy
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Re: Need some help with CPSE meeting / for next year
I have 2 children who are classified. My only advice to you is fight,fight fight.You are the only voice your child has. You know them the best and you know what they need. What I do when I do not agree,which has been a few times,is that I do not sign the paper at the end of the meeting if I do not agree. Then I appeal there decision. From my experience when I do that they give me what I need. I think they try to get out of doing sometimes because of the money for the special services. I once had an attorney who was a friend of ours write a letter for me. But just appeal their decision of you do not agree or if it not what you want.
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| Posted 4/19/09 10:30 PM |
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Re: Need some help with CPSE meeting / for next year
Can you bring his therapist with you to the meeting?
I found at Ryan's meeting, that they were more inclined to listen to the teacher or therapist, than me or DH. They really helped get Ryan everything he needed.
Maybe if they can come, you can express to them before that you want more speech per week?
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| Posted 4/20/09 12:29 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Need some help with CPSE meeting / for next year
Posted by Porrruss
Posted by EmmaNick
You have to be VERY persistent and push for what YOU think he needs. If they say no, you say okay lets table the meeting and I'll need to get an advocate. Then they might give in.
You have the best interest of your child in mind, most districts have the best interst of their $$$ in mind. You would be surprised at how often parents have to fight for what the kids NEED. I attended a seminar with a special education attorney recently, and it was very enlightening.
Good luck!!
I have to be honest- this really disheartens me. I'm a provider and I determine the amount of services needed based on documented data, observations, and my professional opinion. I have NEVER witheld services to a child because of budget- nor have I ever been pressured to do so. To do that is unethical. To imply it is insulting.
Do parents always agree with me? No. Does that mean I increase services to make the parent happy or because they've hired an advocate? Not if I've done my job (and I always do) and have the documentation to support it.
I am not saying to never ask for more services. Of course the parent's input is needed on the team. But parents also need to realize that the service providers are trained pofessionals and know what amount of services are appropriate.
I just hate the "us and against them" attitude some people come to the table with (both parents AND service providers).
I think it depends on your school district, the need of your child, etc.. School budgets are being cut. So it is known that some parents have to "fight" with their schoold district to get what their child want. What Summer said, I have heard 1st hand from therapists themselves. I am sure it's not with all therapists, all school districts but it DOES happen.
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| Posted 4/20/09 6:13 PM |
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LauraD419
LIF Infant
Member since 5/08 97 total posts
Name:
Laura
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Re: Need some help with CPSE meeting / for next year
I'm a special education teacher. I would push for it in your cpse meeting. If they disagree tell them that you'll take it to an impartial hearing. During this they will either, give in, or go ahead with an impartial. It can't hurt. What district is it? FM me if you have any questions.
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| Posted 4/20/09 7:30 PM |
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