Please help with sleeping issues in BOTH kids (kind of long, sorry)

I bought Dr. Ferber's book but haven't had time to read it yet, and I am in need of help before I totally lose it.

Marron (turns 4 this month) will NOT go to sleep at a reasonable time. Last night she was still awake at midnight...in bed since 10:30. I know even that is late but she just shows no signs of being sleepy. It didn't help that she fell asleep watching TV some time in the evening, I'm not sure when b/c DH was watching them while I caught a nap for about an hour. He said it was only for about 5-10 minutes but who really knows. But she had been up since 7:30am. Even with a catnap I think she should have been tired at night.

Erin (11 months old tomorrow) wakes up almost every hour ALL NIGHT LONG!! And she is a terrible napper during the day. She will usually take about a 2 hour nap in the morning but after that, she is impossible to get to sleep. And the only way I can get her to sleep in the afternoon, evening and at night is to give her something in a bottle...and she won't drink water. We sometimes give her a "medicine bottle" (10mL of Gripe Water, a splash of Mylants and a dropperful of simethicone) which usually calms her down so she can fall asleep but I hate that she has to rely on that to go to sleep. When I try to let her CIO she gets herself so worked up that she is literally dripping sweat from her whole head and gets SO upset that she swallows so much air that when I finally go in to her she lets out the biggest burp! And when she starts out with the crying, it doesn't even sound like crying...it is more like real struggling and straining...I can't even describe the sound.

Anybody have any suggestions of what I can do to help either of them? I'm about at my wits end with both of them...and after almost a year, I really need to start getting a decent night of sleep. I'm willing to do CIO with the baby but don't really know how far to push it considering how upset she gets, and the fact that she has severe reflux...it makes me nervous.

Re: Please help with sleeping issues in BOTH kids (kind of long, sorry)

I don't want to presume to know much about this b/c I only have a 4 month old but I found:

"HEALTHY SLEEP HABITS HAPPY CHILD" soo helpful. They even have a quick summary at the end of the chapter in case you don't hve time to read the entire chapter. AND they break it down for the childs age range too!!

Good Luck!!

Re: Please help with sleeping issues in BOTH kids (kind of long, sorry)

It really sounds like you need professional help. Try this website -
[email protected]. She offers an email package that is quite affordable and also a phone package in which you can call up and discuss your children's sleep issues and they can help with some suggestions.

Your 11 month old sounds like she needs more sleep. What time are you putting her down? She should be in bed between 7 & 8pm. She's waking at night because she is either over tired or teething. Putting her to bed earlier should help the first situation and baby motrin should help with the latter.

Your 4 year old needs to go to bed much earlier as well. I really don't know how you can get her to bed earlier but would bribery work.

Check out the website above. There is some free pamplets you can get that may be able to help you.

Message edited 4/1/2010 10:28:08 AM.

Re: Please help with sleeping issues in BOTH kids (kind of long, sorry)

Thank you so much for the above recommended website. I had no idea anything like that even existed.

I know my baby is overtired I just don't know how to help her. I try putting her down early. Last night we put her down at 7pm. She woke at 8 and was up until 11. I know she takes a good nap in the morning but I just can't seem to get her to nap in the afternoon, which is what I think leads to the overtired behavior.

Tuesday night we tried the Motrin and she still woke up every hour.

I'm also struggling alot with how to get her on a schedule and keep her on a schedule when she has physical therapy two times a week (soon to be 3 times), at different times, many doctor visits a month, and an older DD who goes to dance once a week. If anybody has advice on scheduling, PLEASE share...I have to try to help this baby.

Message edited 4/1/2010 7:00:54 PM.

Re: Please help with sleeping issues in BOTH kids (kind of long, sorry)

Bump

Re: Please help with sleeping issues in BOTH kids (kind of long, sorry)

I dont have a lot of advice but just wanted to tell you that my DD is almost the same age..she will be 4 in June. I personally think 10:30 sounds WAY too late....my DD goes to sleep at 7:30 every night and sleeps til 7:30 am. I think you need to switch up her schedule a little...does she sleep late in the AM? Maybe youll need to wake her a little earlier so shes tired earlier at night and then you can get back on track? I also think CIO in a sense may work for her...if she realizes theres no chouce but to go to sleep she will. My DD tells me all of the time she is NOT tired at bedtime...but I make her go to sleep and shes out within minutes.

I definately think CIO is needed with the baby too unfortunately

sending lots of hugs your way! Its hard when your not getting sleep!

Re: Please help with sleeping issues in BOTH kids (kind of long, sorry)

I agree that 10:30 is way too late. Believe me...I'm DONE by 7pm. She does sleep later in the morning...some days until past 10 if she's been up late the night before. Now last night she was up until past midnight...in her room for over an hour telling us she wasn't tired, getting up every 15 minutes or so, talking to herself and playing. this morning I woke her at 9am. She seemed cranky several times during the day. DH tried putting her to bed at 9:30 (still too late but much better than previously and since she'd been up since 9am, figured it was a place to start). Well at 11:15 he was still sending her back to her room and fighting her to go to sleep. When I left for work at 10:30 she was in her bed crying, almost hysterical that she wasn't tired!! How long are we supposed to keep forcing her to stay in her room? What is a reasonable period of time for a 4 year old to get the idea that it really IS time to go to bed. Oh, and she does pull all the stall tactics...I need a drink, I need to to potty, I need to kiss Erin, I need, I need, I need...I hate yelling at her at bedtime, and I know that is not how to "win" but I end up at my wits end.

Should I wake her at like 6am and just deal with her for a day? But then my problem becomes that if she naps for even the slightest amount of time, like in the car, she's up until midnight again!

God, I never thought I'd say it, but I need the SuperNanny!

Re: Please help with sleeping issues in BOTH kids (kind of long, sorry)

Can I ask what type of bedtime routine you have with them? i know you said you have Ferber's book and haven't read it yet, but I really think you should. It was honestly a life saver for us. A lot of what he talks about is setting a routine and sticking to it. Ava's about the same age, and her evenings go like this:
6:30- shower
6:45- watches a few minutes of tv while I dry her hair
7:00- in her room, lights off with just a little dim lamp on while we read three books, talk about the day, snuggle, etc.
7:15-7:20- in bed and I'm leaving her room and she's out for the night until the next morning.

The entire evening after 6:30 is devoted to winding down her day and slowly easing into bedtime. Kids thrive on a bedtime routine and the best part is that eventually, the routine is what dictates bedtime, so she never knows if it's past her bedtime or not. So, on the weekends, if we get home late, as long as we do her routine, she has no clue that it's not at the same time as usual.

It will take a while until you feel like it's working, but I promise that if you find a bedtime routine that you can stick with, it will definitely pay off.
When they're overtired, falling asleep can be impossible for them. Every now and then when Ava is overtired, she literally bounces off the walls and cannot fall asleep and that's what it sounds like is going on.

Definitely make the time to read that Ferber book. It also has a whole thing on sleep associations and how if they fall asleep under certain conditions and wake up to different conditions, it can freak them out. This is more an issue for your 11 month old, but take a look at what's going on in her room at night or how she falls asleep, if she can't have those same exact conditions all night long, then she'll feel freaked out when she wakes in the middle of the night.
For example: does she fall asleep to music, but then it's off when she wakes up? Does she have a light on at bedtime, but not in the middle of the night? Etc.

This is where the CIO of is method comes in. the point is that if a baby falls asleep with you rocking them or patting them or in their room, when they wake up in the middle of the night adn you're not there, it's freaks them out, so if they can fall asleep on their own, wake up and see all is the same as when they went to bed, then it doesn't freak them out.

HTH! And goo luck!

Re: Please help with sleeping issues in BOTH kids (kind of long, sorry)

Posted by prncsslehcar

Can I ask what type of bedtime routine you have with them? i know you said you have Ferber's book and haven't read it yet, but I really think you should. It was honestly a life saver for us. A lot of what he talks about is setting a routine and sticking to it. Ava's about the same age, and her evenings go like this:
6:30- shower
6:45- watches a few minutes of tv while I dry her hair
7:00- in her room, lights off with just a little dim lamp on while we read three books, talk about the day, snuggle, etc.
7:15-7:20- in bed and I'm leaving her room and she's out for the night until the next morning.

The entire evening after 6:30 is devoted to winding down her day and slowly easing into bedtime. Kids thrive on a bedtime routine and the best part is that eventually, the routine is what dictates bedtime, so she never knows if it's past her bedtime or not. So, on the weekends, if we get home late, as long as we do her routine, she has no clue that it's not at the same time as usual.

It will take a while until you feel like it's working, but I promise that if you find a bedtime routine that you can stick with, it will definitely pay off.
When they're overtired, falling asleep can be impossible for them. Every now and then when Ava is overtired, she literally bounces off the walls and cannot fall asleep and that's what it sounds like is going on.

Definitely make the time to read that Ferber book. It also has a whole thing on sleep associations and how if they fall asleep under certain conditions and wake up to different conditions, it can freak them out. This is more an issue for your 11 month old, but take a look at what's going on in her room at night or how she falls asleep, if she can't have those same exact conditions all night long, then she'll feel freaked out when she wakes in the middle of the night.
For example: does she fall asleep to music, but then it's off when she wakes up? Does she have a light on at bedtime, but not in the middle of the night? Etc.

This is where the CIO of is method comes in. the point is that if a baby falls asleep with you rocking them or patting them or in their room, when they wake up in the middle of the night adn you're not there, it's freaks them out, so if they can fall asleep on their own, wake up and see all is the same as when they went to bed, then it doesn't freak them out.

HTH! And goo luck!

Message edited 4/2/2010 7:09:41 AM.

Re: Please help with sleeping issues in BOTH kids (kind of long, sorry)

I agree with the PPs- starting a strict bedtime routine was a lifesaver for us. We still have hiccups every now and again, but generally bedtime at 7-7:30 is not an issue anymore.

I also highly recommend the Healthy Sleep habits book as it deals with sleep issues all the way up to adolescence.