Problem with the Crate - Training Help

Ok, so we're intending to crate train Arnold, with that being said, I went to put him in his crate last night and all hell broke loose!!!

He did NOT want to be in there by ANY means. He cried for about 5 minutes straight and so hard that he actually started to bark!

So the sucker that I am, went downstairs and let him out. He wound up sleeping in his bed that is out in the kitchen and stopped the whining and crying.

Now the problem that came up last night is that he's "doing his business" in the crate. He did this once earlier last night and my husband cleaned it up and even used clorox wipes so the scent would be elminated but then apparently he did it again over night after I let him out of the crate. To make matters worse, he didn't even go on the papers I left in there, he went on his blanket.

Now fast forward to this morning, after breakfast, he did the same thing! Into the crate and he pooped in there! So in I go, clean it up and just after I finished cleaning that up, he went in and peed a tiny bit on the blanket (almost like he was "marking his terrirtory").

This is my concern: In the shelter, his "potty" area was in a crate like shelter. I'm nervous that he may be confusing the use of this crate for the other one he had in the shelter.

What do I do? I've always been told the crate is the way to go, but it seems like for him, it's just a place to go to the bathroom!

Help!

Thanks and I'm sorry this was SO long winded!!

Message edited 1/31/2008 10:23:28 AM.

Re: Problem with the Crate

Hmmm let's see.

Yes, that is one possible problem with a dog from a shelter/pet store who lived in a crate.

Personally I think if I was in your shoes, b/c he "lived" in a crate, I would try not using a crate, but limiting him to one room...

the question is, how long is he alone all day? B/c I think the real trick here will be getting him outside as SOON as he has an accident, so he can learn to realize NOW THIS is where I go.

And Jennie, you know I mean this as your friend, I would personally NOT start with papers. B/c not only did he learn that he can "go" in his crate, I would not want him to start learning to "go" in your house.

I never used papers with either of my dogs. But then again, I was home often to run them out every 2 hours or so, always about 15 mins after eating, etc.

So tell me, what is your schedule
with him going to be like and let's see if we can come up with a plan.

ETA And he is def not marking his territory, he is a baby who just has no routines or ability to control just yet. THat is all it is.

Message edited 1/31/2008 10:02:26 AM.

Re: Problem with the Crate

I agree, it might be more of a force of habit then anything right now.

What about getting a pen for him, that way it is open on the top so he does not feel that he is in a crate, he will have his own space, etc...

It might take a little while to get him out of that habit since he was basically trained that way and it was not the wrong thing to do at the time.

I am crate training my Puppy right now, for one reason is it is just way to cold outside, she does not have all her shots either. She basically never has an accident and always goes straight to the wee wee pad, she also has NEVER had an accident in the crate since dogs basically never go where they sleep.

I am going to train her to go outside whent he weather gets warmer and she has all her shots. Allmost every day I try to take her out on the deck for at least 10-15 min's to get used to it in the meantime.

Message edited 1/31/2008 10:25:01 AM.

Re: Problem with the Crate

I would not put papers in the crate at all. Put soft blankets and some food, he won't want to mess near it. Also, when it comes time to put him in there give him a treat and don't give in to his fussing! You should practice putting him in there several times a day and only take him out once he has stopped fussing. This worked with Katie.

Re: Problem with the Crate

Well, he didn't really live in a crate. He had a small area in the shelter, kind of like an alcove with gate. In that area was an open crate which was where he went. He had a separate bed in this area that he slept in.

His time alone during the day will be broken up. He'll get walked in the morning by my husband, say, around 7am. He will then give him breakfast. I get up around 7:30 so I will walk him after he eats. So far it seems that it takes him about twenty or more minutes for the need to eliminate to kick in.

Then I'll get ready for work and be out the door by about 8:30, 8:40 the latest. At this point the water will come up as well as any left over food. Actually the food gets pulled after about 15 mins of him walking away from it.

I will then come home around 12:30 for lunch at which point I will take him out for a walk and give him lunch. Then he'll get walked. Food and water come up again and he's on his own until about 4:30 five o'clock.

My SIL has offered to stop by during the day and while I appreciate her doing this, I'm not sure it's a good idea unless she can keep it up for awhile. Right now the puppy is a novelty, we're trying to maintain a schedule and if she can't do it all the time, I'm not sure we should accept her offer.

Now here's the biggest issue... We tried to walk him yesterday and he would NOT go out! The poor little guy was scared out of his wits!! I figured we would try again today (I took today off from work as well!) but I'm not sure that I really want to force him to go outside. I don't want to scare him.

Unfortunately, he's already paper trained b/c that's what they did in the shelter. Between that and being completely scared out of his wits to go outside what do you think I should do?

Re: Problem with the Crate - Training Help

As far as walking him...put his leash on in the house and let him pull it around so he gets used to it. He will adjust to it. Try and let him out in the yard to do his business as opposed to walking him.

As far as going in the crate...remove the paper from the crate and put some outside. You want him to connect the paper and going to the bathroom. If it's in the crate, he thinks he should go in the crate. If it's outside, he'll get the outside part. I would also either put him in the crate and let him cry it out or take the crate away altogether if you aren't going to use it and pen him in a small area.

Good luck.

Re: Problem with the Crate - Training Help

I found this website that offered very helpful hints




House training a dog is one of the most difficult parts of owning a dog for many owners and failing to house train a dog is also one of the main reason dogs are abandoned. The following is a list of keys factors used by Josh Schermer of Downtown Pets a New York City dog walking and dog training company.

1. The best way to house train a dog is with a crate.

Crating a dog while also increasing it's daily walks provides the best example of home and bathroom to the dog.

2. A dog must earn it's freedom from the crate.

When you wake up in the morning take your dog out immediately for a bathroom break. If it goes it can be out of the crate for a short period of time. If it doesn't go then you need to put it back in the crate, feed it and then take it out again. This must be the routine in the beginning of housetraining and your dog must earn it's freedom.

3. How long can this freedom last for?

Start on the short side with thirty minutes to an hour BUT you also must keep your dog within viewing distance during this time. Close the doors to the area you're in and / or keep your dog on a lead too. As your dog proves an ability to not go in the house you can increase this free time out of the crate.

4. How long should a dog be "in" a crate?

As a rule a dog should not be in a crate more than five hours unless it's during the time you go to sleep at night where they will be in there all night.

5. Can I crate an adolescent puppy?

Yes you can but keep in mind that a puppy will likely need to go to the bathroom a frequency in respect to it's age. So a two month old puppy will need to go every two hours and so on.

6. Why is my dog going # 1 in the crate?

The major reason a dog goes in a crate is because it has been left in there to long. But when it makes a mistake is it only going number one? If it is try and start only giving it water as it leaves the crate to go out for a walk. If after that your dog is still is going number one in the crate it might have a bladder infection and you should make an appointment with your vet. Please make sure to consult your veterinarian before altering your dogs drinking and or eating schedule.

7. Why is my dog going # 2 in the crate.

Your crate might be to big? It should only allow your dog to stretch out and no more. The point of the crate is to not let your dog move away from a #1 or #2 if they go in the crate. If the crate is to big then can move to a side of the mistake.

8. What type of walking schedule should I keep to housetrain my dog?

Start on the heavy side. If your dog is a medium to big dog and over six months you can get away with a walk every five or six hours from waking up in the morning. But if you have a younger puppy and or a smaller dog who is not housetrained you might want to start with a heavier walk load. Keep in mind the majority of these can be bathroom breaks but throw in at least one good cardio walk a day too.

9. Do dogs like crates?

Overall they do and it actually has a calming affect on many dogs. We've had many owners who once their dog has become house trained they have taken the door off the crate, put a cover on it and it's become their dogs own little den (which is how they look at it anyway, like a wolf would).



housetraining tips

Message edited 1/31/2008 11:18:48 AM.

Re: Problem with the Crate - Training Help

First off thank you all for your responses, I appreciate them!!!

Here's my concern with crating him - especially without the papers in there.

He's basically going to be in the crate about an hour or so longer than his little body can hold it. I'm concerned that if I don't at least have the papers in the crate he may go on the blanket I have in there... which he's already done.

So is it ok for him to be in there regardless of the fact that he's still too young to be able to hold it?

This is my major issue right now with this crate training thing. I'd be more inclined to crate him if I knew he could physically hold himself until I got home to let him out.

What do you guys think?

Re: Problem with the Crate - Training Help

I think you should give the crate another try. If he can hold it then you'll find out.
Katie was 8 weeks when we got her and she would be in the crate from 8:45 - 12:15 and then 12:45 to 5:45.
She had a tiny bit of water in her crate but she never drank it, she slept the whole time.

One other thing- I found that Katie really liked it when there was a cover on the crate - it was like a nice dark cave.

Re: Problem with the Crate - Training Help

Message edited 1/31/2008 3:54:23 PM.

Re: Problem with the Crate - Training Help

Re: Problem with the Crate - Training Help

My Puppy is crated from 8:00-12:30 and then I let her out at lunch and then in the crate again from 1:30-5:30. I do not leave food or water in the crate with her, when she is out of the crate, she eats, drinks, does her business and then back in the crate.

How big is the crate? That is a factor also, if the crate is big enough so the Puppy can move around freely, they usually have accidents this way. Now I might have been lucky, but I have a bed in Bella's crate that takes up the entire size of the crate. She has never had an accident once in there. As soon as I let her out of the crate, we go straight to the pad and she goes.

Just try to stick with a routine, it will get so much easier I promise. I remember the first couple of weeks, I really did not think I was going to be able to do it, but now I look at how far she has come and how much I have learned.

I wanted to add a tip and I have learned this the hard way, but it worked out amazing. Everytime I changed the wee wee pad, I would wipe a little pee from the old one to the new one so her scent was there all the time. Now, she goes to that pad like clockwork . It is all about being consistant, dogs are VERY smart, it just takes time and effort.

Message edited 1/31/2008 4:37:25 PM.

Re: Problem with the Crate - Training Help

Re: Problem with the Crate - Training Help

Re: Problem with the Crate - Training Help

Don't give up!!!!

It was so hard with Lilly at first, we felt like we had a newborn. We were up 4-5 times a night for the first 2 weeks with her. She would whine, cry, mess - We crated her from the get-go during the day. For a few days, she did mess in it while we were gone, but she soon learned not to. The nights continued to be bad, though, and now we keep her in the bed with us and she sleeps through the night and even sleeps in on the weekends until 10!

Now that she is older (8 months), she can go the entire day without messing in her crate. She is in there from 8:30 until 3:30.

It s u c k s at first, but it will be so worth it in the end!

Re: Problem with the Crate - Training Help

Re: Problem with the Crate - Training Help

we crated Bella, actually still do. Bella was about 9 weeks when we got her. We turned her crate to face into the laundry room, and then put paper in the laundry room incase she had to go during the day. She never went to the bathroom in her crate, and she was crated from 8-4:30. After a month and a half she was able to hold it all day. We also had a crate that had a divider that made the crate smaller, since we bought a large one for her to grow into, I think that helped alot because there was only room for her to lay down, no extra room to pee. Now Bella is almost two, she is still in the crate with access to the small room, not because of potty issues, but because I feel bad that she is in such a small space, so if she can go into the bathroom at least she can walk around a little. This is a pic when she was a puppy, we just turned the crate around to face the little room.

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