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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
I get this part. but she seems to be saying that the UNIONS have been paying the 12k, NOT the city.
so I am confused. I am sorry if I am frustrating you. I am not that smart. 
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Posted 2/23/11 1:40 PM  |
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SlurpeeDad
LIF Adolescent
Member since 1/11 713 total posts
Name:
SlurpeeDad
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
Posted by emilylives
The other link wasn't meant to provide information. It was a 30 second video designed to strike an emotional chord, which I felt was done really well. Your link was supposed to be informational. I was just wondering what you felt like it added to the discussion, as I didn't see any new information in it.
These emotional chords have already been pulled at, therefore that link was redundant as well.
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| Posted 2/23/11 1:41 PM |
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LAMGAJ28
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Member since 10/05 6039 total posts
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Message edited 10/3/2011 11:18:16 PM.
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| Posted 2/23/11 1:42 PM |
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emilylives
biking
Member since 12/09 2163 total posts
Name:
Emily
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
Posted by SlurpeeDad
Posted by emilylives
The other link wasn't meant to provide information. It was a 30 second video designed to strike an emotional chord, which I felt was done really well. Your link was supposed to be informational. I was just wondering what you felt like it added to the discussion, as I didn't see any new information in it.
These emotional chords have already been pulled at, therefore that link was redundant as well.
To you it was redundant. To me it wasn't. To me it summed up a lot of the rambling on this and the other threads into a really succinct 30 seconds. In any case, I don't think I was being hypocritical, but we can agree to disagree on that as well.
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| Posted 2/23/11 1:44 PM |
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Mommy2Boys
My Boys!!!!
Member since 6/06 14437 total posts
Name:
C
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
Posted by Deedlebugs
LOL My DH doesn't make $150K a year (or even close) and he has been a NCPD PO for 6 years. I wouldn't say most of them make that much.
Top pay for a Suffolk cop after 5 years is $108k, not inclusive of OT. Nassau is a little lower. And if you work for a village it may vary.
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| Posted 2/23/11 1:44 PM |
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Pumpkin1
LIF Adult
Member since 12/05 3715 total posts
Name:
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
Not to be snarky, but exactly where are you getting your information from? Someone earlier posted that these payments to corrections officers have been suspended for at least 10 years because the fund isn't doing that well. You are repeating yourself without answering any questions about where the money is coming from or how the fund is doing.
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| Posted 2/23/11 1:46 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
Posted by MrsFresca
Posted by sometimesmommy
Please dont take this the wrong way but if you offered any of the soldiers who are at war right now 73K they would be over joyed.
Military pay Scale
This is not to trivialize what NYPD or FDNY do--it just aggrivates me when people talk about how certain professions deserve X when you have others who are in a hostile environment EVERYDAY and get squat. They do it for a greater reason than $$$.
If you ask me, the troops deserve a lot more than that. But I think they're in a hostile environment mostly when they are deployed to war. Many other professions face dangers every day so I'm thinking that's why they are offered more. I didn't see that link but are they offer more when they are at war? They definitely should. I'm thinking that's a tax increase that perhaps many people would hopefully have no problem paying for.
yes, the military gets combat pay and it goes by rank.
my brother made more $$ on his second tour than he did on his first, though they did wait to give him a promotion that was due to him until he came back.  THAT is think is ridiculous. just so he wouldn't get the higher rank of combat pay.
but when you are trying to spread tax payers dollars, every bit of savings helps.
and more to your point, while my brother was only in Fallujah a total of 14 months, he is forever changed by it.
I am sure there are those who can relate, but I cannot express to you what I felt to hear my brother tell me he was scared of what I and others would think of him when he got back, b/c he had to kill.
these men and women kill for our country. they go against all moral code and kill and have to come back and assimilate into regular society with very little help.
and there is very little help b/c financially we cannot support it.
b/c when we talk about tax increases we do it in the abstract so that we don't connect our complaints of tax burden to others real trials and tribulations in service of our society.
 hopping off now. 
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| Posted 2/23/11 1:48 PM |
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LAMGAJ28
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Member since 10/05 6039 total posts
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.....
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Message edited 10/3/2011 11:17:51 PM.
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| Posted 2/23/11 1:50 PM |
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Mommy2Boys
My Boys!!!!
Member since 6/06 14437 total posts
Name:
C
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
Posted by MrsFresca
Posted by Ophelia
I get this part. but she seems to be saying that the UNIONS have been paying the 12k, NOT the city.
so I am confused. I am sorry if I am frustrating you. I am not that smart.
Yes, since 1996 the city has contributed ZERO dollars to pay for this benefit. This is why these unions are very upset with him calling it a bonus and for giving erroneous information.
"The Variable Supplement Fund has long been self-funded and still is today. It does not cost the city a dime," said PBA President Patrick Lynch.
And to add to that, it is 12k BEFORE tax and the payout is contingent upon a variety of factors why it is called the VARIABLE supplement.
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| Posted 2/23/11 1:55 PM |
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Pumpkin1
LIF Adult
Member since 12/05 3715 total posts
Name:
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
Posted by Mommy2Boys
Posted by MrsFresca
Posted by Ophelia
I get this part. but she seems to be saying that the UNIONS have been paying the 12k, NOT the city.
so I am confused. I am sorry if I am frustrating you. I am not that smart.
Yes, since 1996 the city has contributed ZERO dollars to pay for this benefit. This is why these unions are very upset with him calling it a bonus and for giving erroneous information.
"The Variable Supplement Fund has long been self-funded and still is today. It does not cost the city a dime," said PBA President Patrick Lynch.
And to add to that, it is 12k BEFORE tax and the payout is contingent upon a variety of factors why it is called the VARIABLE supplement.
Ok, I'm still confused. Is this $12K payment a dividend payment from a fund or repayment for a loan taken out by the city when it was broke? If it is from a fund, than it does not cost the city a dime. If it is repayment of a loan, than the city is making the payments. Also, if it is repayment of a loan, than why would these payments continue indefinitely?
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| Posted 2/23/11 2:00 PM |
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LAMGAJ28
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Member since 10/05 6039 total posts
Name:
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Message edited 10/3/2011 11:18:49 PM.
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| Posted 2/23/11 2:00 PM |
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IrishLasss334
I'll be there soon!
Member since 1/08 6549 total posts
Name:
Patty
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
We all agree the military makes the most sacrifice, financially, and in every way, they are underappreciated, kind of out of sight out of mind and it's terrible. They should be paid more and their benefits better. I don't think anyone feels differently. I don't have a federal job, so I can't tell you if everyone receives the same benefits and I have no idea if the pay scale for all branches of military and pensions are the same. I do know my friend is in the US Coast Guard and if you ask her she will tell you her benefits are great, the pay is great, she gets allowances for meals, etc. when she has to fly somewhere and she loves it. Everyone has their own opinions.
With no emotion in this statement. I don't think Federal military can be compared with local law enformcement, fire or other local service. Federal is federal, they are funded federally and it's from our federal taxes. Benefits come from the employer, regardless of who they are.
For example - NYPD - just benefits alone - nothing else - medical comes from the City of NY, they get offered the same exact thing every other city employee gets, nothing special. There are more than 5 plans to choose from that range in price and level of coverage. Due to the large number of NYC Employees, NYC has excellent bargaining power with the health care companies to get good rates and plans. Dental, optical, RX comes from the PBA/Unions that all the employees pay into. I believe the other unions are run the same way, but I'm not 100%.
Suffolk County Sheriff (I know only b/c DH turned the job down years ago) - everything came from Suffolk County, it wasn't split up between a union, etc.
NCPD - benefits from the county.
An argument could be made by Nassau and Suffolk County residents, of which I am one, that the should start funding some of their own benefits to save the taxpayers money, like the way NYC does. '
We can like them, hate them, love them, think they stink, but they are separate employers, although funded by public taxes, offering different benefits, the same as the private sector companies.
OFF TOPIC OF THIS POST - My brother graduated from NCPD 3 years ago and he hits top pay at I believe his completed 6th or 7th year, not sure and I'm not sure what it is but I know it's at least $105,000, base pay. I can't get him on the phone to ask him.
Message edited 2/23/2011 2:13:31 PM.
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| Posted 2/23/11 2:07 PM |
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Mommy2Boys
My Boys!!!!
Member since 6/06 14437 total posts
Name:
C
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
Posted by Pumpkin1
Ok, I'm still confused. Is this $12K payment a dividend payment from a fund or repayment for a loan taken out by the city when it was broke? If it is from a fund, than it does not cost the city a dime. If it is repayment of a loan, than the city is making the payments. Also, if it is repayment of a loan, than why would these payments continue indefinitely?
It is a payment from a fund.
Here is the history (courtesy of IrishLass)
May 1970: Mayor Lindsay approves of the Collective Bargaining Agreement (“CBA”) between the City and Police/Fire Unions to create the Variable Supplement Fund (“VSF”) in exchange for permission to invest Pension Fund assets in the stock market.
May 1988: Mayor Koch approves of the CBA between the City and the Patrolmens Benevolent Association to transfer the VSF into a “defined benefit” in exchange for a $75 million payment and other “value” that includes agreement to increase the steps to top salary from 3 years to 5 years. Defined payments began at $2,500 and increased to a maximum of $12,000 per year in 2007.
June 1993: Mayor Dinkins approves of the CBA between the City and Police “Superior Officer” unions to transfer the Superior Officer VSF into a “defined benefit” in exchange for $51.75 million payment, and other “value” that includes reduced entry base wage for new promotees, lengthened term of the contract and increased steps to top salary.
September 2002: Mayor Bloomberg approves of “Deferred Retirement Option Plan” legislation under which officers who continued working after marking their 20th year on the job could “bank” the VSF payment for each year they would have received it had they retired
And reaction of PBA:
PBA REACTS TO STATE OF THE CITY PENSION CHANGES
In response to the Mayor's call for an end to the VSF benefit that he erroneously calls a "holiday bonus," PBA president Patrick J. Lynch said:
“The Variable Supplement Fund benefit — what the Mayor refers to as a holiday bonus — was bought and paid for by New York City Police Officers, having been derived from a collective bargaining agreement that benefited both the City and our members. Police officers gave over $75 million up front and in excess of a billion dollars of surplus pension earnings over the years to the City’s coffers while a small portion was shared with our members in a defined benefit. Having realized billions in benefits, the City now wants to renege on the agreement. We intend to hold them to it.”
Message edited 2/23/2011 2:15:49 PM.
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| Posted 2/23/11 2:11 PM |
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IrishLasss334
I'll be there soon!
Member since 1/08 6549 total posts
Name:
Patty
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
Posted by Mommy2Boys
It is a payment from a fund.
Here is the history (courtesy of IrishLass)
I know I copied/pasted it from somewhere but this has been going on for so many days I don't remember! LOL.
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| Posted 2/23/11 2:17 PM |
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LAMGAJ28
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Member since 10/05 6039 total posts
Name:
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........
Message edited 10/3/2011 11:19:32 PM.
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| Posted 2/23/11 2:40 PM |
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sometimesmommy
Always in my heart.....
Member since 11/06 6686 total posts
Name:
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
Posted by Mommy2Boys
Posted by sometimesmommy
Please dont take this the wrong way but if you offered any of the soldiers who are at war right now 73K they would be over joyed.
I dont take it the wrong way. I think we treat our troops like crap too.
DH works with ALOT of guys who are ex-military or currently in the military. One of the guys he works with just came back after completing his last year of service. He had to leave his wife for a year with their newborn baby. Fortunately, the NYPD does one thing right and continues to pay their salary while they are away at war.
ETA: And the point of my post was not to minimize other professions such as military, fireman, corrections officers, etc. People who put themselves in danger protecting others.
I was simply responding to the ignorant comments about cops jobs being no different or no more stressful than any others. To cops jobs being stressful because they blew a red light to go to a deli. To past comments about a cop being rude while taking a statement. Just as military, these guys see ALOT of stuff and as I've said before it is emotionally, mentally and physically draining on them.
Not you specifically-its in general. Its the self centered/self serving comments on here and IRL.
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| Posted 2/23/11 2:48 PM |
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sometimesmommy
Always in my heart.....
Member since 11/06 6686 total posts
Name:
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
Posted by emilylives
Posted by sometimesmommy
Please dont take this the wrong way but if you offered any of the soldiers who are at war right now 73K they would be over joyed.
Military pay Scale
This is not to trivialize what NYPD or FDNY do--it just aggrivates me when people talk about how certain professions deserve X when you have others who are in a hostile environment EVERYDAY and get squat. They do it for a greater reason than $$$.
Okay, don't take this the wrong way, but why do you keep bringing up the military? Everyone who has responded to you has agreed that the military doesn't get paid enough, doesn't get enough benefits, is treated poorly. That doesn't mean that there aren't problems in other areas too. You don't need to jump in every time someone says they think something is unreasonable and say, "Well, the military has it worse!" We're not talking about the military. Everyone has a right to voice their concerns about professions without other people jumping in and saying their concerns are trivial because others have it worse.
Exactly-everyone has a right to voice their opinions. So I did.
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| Posted 2/23/11 2:53 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
Posted by MrsFresca
Ophelia, I'm still looking for that link where I read city has not contributed anything since 1996.
it's ok. I really don't think I have the brain capacity to understand it if you did.
I am going to step out as awkwardly as I came in. 
on a serious note, I hope we can all find a conclusion that we can live with, and that the city's coffers can support.
and of course, may God continue to watch over those who protect and serve our communities. 
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| Posted 2/23/11 3:03 PM |
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Pumpkin1
LIF Adult
Member since 12/05 3715 total posts
Name:
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
No offense, but quoting from the FDNY union website is not a biased view. but I found what I was looking for elsewhere.
The information is from the NYS Insurance Department Examination of the Fund from 2003. It can be found at:
http://viewer.zoho.com/api/urlview.do?url=http://www.ins.state.ny.us/exam_rpt/n2596c03.pdf
Based upon this report, the fund is paid for by the individual agencies. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those agencies funded by the city? Thus, if this fund is no longer being "funded," the city can decrease its funding to those individual departments by a like amount.
The report also acknowledges that this fund can be amended, modified or repealed by the NYS and its Legislature. That means that is not a contracted benefit, it was a legislated one that can be repealed.
Finally, as of 2003, the fund had assets totalling about $233M (yes, I realize it was a long time ago, but the economic climate at that time was far more favorable than now). Based upon the $2,500 being paid to 30K retirees at that time, the fund only had enough assets to pay for a little more than 3 years.
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| Posted 2/23/11 3:55 PM |
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IrishLasss334
I'll be there soon!
Member since 1/08 6549 total posts
Name:
Patty
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
Posted by THUMPER
Original Poster said" The NYPD is going to be a $hit show with the crap they are hiring now". So she did call them crap and it is offensive.
I know OP apologized. I was trying to inform you of the the half-a-perps your nephew graduated with and why people whose spouses or who are currently cops feel this way about the new hires. We know there are good apples in the barrel, there are just less and less good ones as the standards get lower and lower. You may have been aware of the lowering standards, and if you were, I'm sorry. I am by NO means indicating that your nephew needed them, but there are more and more people that do and they shouldn't be there.
Unfortunately, your nephew and all the other good ones will bear the burden for the bad apples. It just suck$ for the good ones.
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| Posted 2/23/11 4:55 PM |
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IrishLasss334
I'll be there soon!
Member since 1/08 6549 total posts
Name:
Patty
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
The VSF for the NYPD was originally borrowed from the City from the NYPD Pension Fund, paid into by the NYPD.
The pension fund is payed into in every pay check in union dues.
Message edited 2/23/2011 5:24:33 PM.
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| Posted 2/23/11 5:16 PM |
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IrishLasss334
I'll be there soon!
Member since 1/08 6549 total posts
Name:
Patty
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
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| Posted 2/23/11 5:19 PM |
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WNA01
my 2 boys
Member since 10/08 4240 total posts
Name:
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
Posted by IrishLass
The VSF for the NYPD was originally borrowed from the City from the NYPD Pension Fund, paid into by the NYPD.
The pension fund is payed into in every pay check in union dues.
I dont know how many times this has been repeated over and over and people still just dont get it... 
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| Posted 2/23/11 5:36 PM |
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WNA01
my 2 boys
Member since 10/08 4240 total posts
Name:
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
Posted by Pumpkin1
Not to be snarky, but exactly where are you getting your information from? Someone earlier posted that these payments to corrections officers have been suspended for at least 10 years because the fund isn't doing that well. You are repeating yourself without answering any questions about where the money is coming from or how the fund is doing.
not to be snarky? LOL seriously have u done any research on this topic whatsoever?
Each department has their OWN fund.. they just didnt put all their monies into one big fund and hope for the best. Im going to make this really simple...
NYPD has their own fund funded by their members
NYCD has their own fund funded by their members
FDNY has their own fund funded by their members
DSNY has their own fund funded by their members
etc etc
Each union negotiates their own monies..
Hope that makes sense. if someone else can clarify it even better for the people who dont feel like reading the last 12 pages please do so.
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| Posted 2/23/11 5:43 PM |
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Pumpkin1
LIF Adult
Member since 12/05 3715 total posts
Name:
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Re: Since bashing teachers went on for 12 pages, can we discuss how Bloomberg is trying to $crew the NYPD, FDNY, etc.?
Posted by WNA01
seriously have u done any research on this topic whatsoever?
Before today, no. Why would I need to? However, based upon the "facts" that were thrown around here (i.e., "it's a fund," "it's a loan," "this is a legal contract"), I decided to do my research and found the answers to these questions. (see my earlier thread).
Look, I understand there are lots of NYPD and FDNY wives on here and this is something close to their heart. There is such hostility here, I am not bashing. I'm just trying to figure out what's going on.
From what I can tell, there is a limited pool of money and someone's gotta give but no-one wants to and as much as people say the mayor is pitting people against each other, it is inevitable because the cuts need to be made somewhere. This payment is an easy target because it is not a contractual right but a legislative one that can be revoked.
Now, this is entirely my opinion, but I cannot see how members (which, I presume, through union dues) can fully fund this payment because $12K times 30k recipients equals $360million. That's a lot of money.
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| Posted 2/23/11 6:09 PM |
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