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Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
I have a feeling this will get a lot of views, and fewer posts 
Ok... Here goes....
I am a behavior consultant, and am in a few districts. One middle school Class I'm in has four students, all relatively low functioning... Down Syndrome, as well as other severe developmental delays. They have language and are very social. They can talk, answer questions, know everyone's names, etc....
The district they are in have mostly Portuguese, but few black students. Their teacher is trying to teach them about black people by showing the kids pictures, pointing out students in the school who are black, as well as teachers.
She keeps telling me they aren't getting it. They don't get what makes someone black. If they are asked what color someone is, they can't answer it.
Today, a light skinned black woman came into the class... I think she may have been a teacher. The middle school teacher asked the kids if she was black. Again, the kids looked at her and didn't answer. They were told yes, she is black.
Again, the teacher tells me they aren't getting it. I said maybe because she was light skinned?
The teacher said, no...even with darker skinned people, they aren't getting it.
So, here is what I said. And I swear, I got looks from the both of them as if i just told them I'm a grand wizard of the local KKK.....
I said, "well, that's a good thing..."
I was asked, after they looked at each other why it was a "good" thing
I said, "they obviously see the person, and not the color of their skin."
The other woman rolled her eyes and said, well, I guess you can look at it like that. And walked out...
Ummmm... Is what i said in any way wrong? Or racist? I understand the importance of celebrating diversity. Of learning about the contributions of all groups that make up our country.
But Is it necessary to force a group of developmentally delayed youth to see a diffence if it doesn't come naturally to them?
Didn't King say one day his children will be judged by the content of their character and not the color of their skin?
I just found it so contrived.....
Please share your thoughts.....
Message edited 2/15/2011 6:27:16 PM.
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Posted 2/15/11 11:22 AM  |
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
Btw sorry for typos and lack of punctuation... I'm on my iPad.... Can't edit.
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:24 AM |
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
Message edited 2/15/2011 6:27:29 PM.
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:25 AM |
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MrsKS
Thank You St. Gerard.....
Member since 12/09 8306 total posts
Name:
Kerri
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
i see both sides.
you are looking at it from a very kumba ya love everyone way. In a good sense. A great sense actually.
she is seeing it as an educational failure that they just don't understand what she's trying to teach them.
One is the feelings side and the other is the black and white textbook side of it.
what you said is certainly not wrong... and 1000000% NOT racist. It's the complete opposite.
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:26 AM |
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
Message edited 2/15/2011 6:27:43 PM.
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:27 AM |
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jilliibabii
Mrs. O'Connor
Member since 6/10 12821 total posts
Name:
Jillian
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
Posted by lipglossjunky73
But Is it necessary to force a group of developmentally delayed youth to see a diffence if it doesn't come naturally to them?
This is exactly what I was thinking the entire time I was reading this. Why are they pushing this on them so much? I agree with you- I think it's great that they don't see someone and think "That's a black person." Why is it so wrong just to think "That's a person."
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:27 AM |
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
Posted by MrsKS
i see both sides.
you are looking at it from a very kumba ya love everyone way. In a good sense. A great sense actually.
she is seeing it as an educational failure that they just don't understand what she's trying to teach them.
One is the feelings side and the other is the black and white textbook side of it.
what you said is certainly not wrong... and 1000000% NOT racist. It's the complete opposite.
if it were any other type of student, I would agree. But this is also a population who could say something about someone being black and get themselves in trouble if it's taught to them as well.... It's more like, for their everyday functioning, what's the most important thing for them to know?
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:29 AM |
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MrsKS
Thank You St. Gerard.....
Member since 12/09 8306 total posts
Name:
Kerri
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
PS - I don't think she is thinking of it as forcing a group of developmentally delayed youth to see a difference that doesn't come naturally to them. She sees it as teaching them something. She is probably faced with teaching them things that don't come naturally to them on a daily basis and this is just another one of the daily teachings to her.
i think she's looking at it from more of a learning perspective rather than a "gift of not seeing races" perspective.
Does that make sense? I just think neither one of you are wrong here and you are both just thinking about it from opposite ends of the spectrum.
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:29 AM |
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AngnShaun
Sisters
Member since 1/10 21015 total posts
Name:
Ang
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
im trying to figure out how to say this...
i find it strange that these children cant tell the difference just based on skin color... i guess i understand her frustration... seeing someone as different because of thier skin color is different than not being able to tell the difference between skin color
I dont think what you said was wrong at all... and her reaction was strange IMO...
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:30 AM |
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
Posted by jilliibabii
Posted by lipglossjunky73
But Is it necessary to force a group of developmentally delayed youth to see a diffence if it doesn't come naturally to them?
This is exactly what I was thinking the entire time I was reading this. Why are they pushing this on them so much? I agree with you- I think it's great that they don't see someone and think "That's a black person." Why is it so wrong just to think "That's a person."
thank you... Yes!!
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:30 AM |
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groovypeg
:)
Member since 5/05 2423 total posts
Name:
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
Posted by jilliibabii
Posted by lipglossjunky73
But Is it necessary to force a group of developmentally delayed youth to see a diffence if it doesn't come naturally to them?
This is exactly what I was thinking the entire time I was reading this. Why are they pushing this on them so much? I agree with you- I think it's great that they don't see someone and think "That's a black person." Why is it so wrong just to think "That's a person."
i agree....and you can always throw the "is it functional" card at her bc really what comes out of them knowing the difference? does it change the way they interact with people?
etd to add: maybe the bigger picture is that she just doesn't know how to teach them. obviously what she is doing is not working!
Message edited 2/15/2011 11:31:54 AM.
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:30 AM |
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MrsH2009
Thank you St. Gerard!
Member since 8/09 6631 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
I agree with you. Thank god these kids don't get it. While I agree with teaching Black History month, so students know about their country's history, not sure why she is forcing differences on them.
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:31 AM |
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
I should say that I also have a different history with this teacher that you guys don't know about, which does make this a little different....
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:32 AM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
Well, I guess she REALLY does not get it then. Why is she even if that field if she does not grasp that?
Because DS is oblivious of colors. Yes, he may know you are different. He does not why and could not care less. His World is different than ours. In essence, I feel he is so remote from reality. He lives in a perfect lalaland World. His World. And he is happy in his World.
DH and I are there to shelter him.
He will look at you for who you are. He may or may not like you but it's not out of being mean. He is incapable of mean. He is forever "innocent".
And she should know that they CAN'T get it either. Black people are not "black". So can they really get it. It's the perception of black. They are so literal that those children cannot associate black people with the color black. Because black people are really "brown" or "beige". Try teaching that to a child with special needs.
OK... that was my 2 cents!
ETA: Should we teach them? yes. Because they need to understand what we are talking about. Someone is a red hair, etc.. yet, we have to accept they may not get it.
Message edited 2/15/2011 11:34:36 AM.
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:32 AM |
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
Sophie.... BINGO!
The funny thing is... Because they are black and white, they can't identify black in other people!
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:34 AM |
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MrsKS
Thank You St. Gerard.....
Member since 12/09 8306 total posts
Name:
Kerri
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by MrsKS
i see both sides.
you are looking at it from a very kumba ya love everyone way. In a good sense. A great sense actually.
she is seeing it as an educational failure that they just don't understand what she's trying to teach them.
One is the feelings side and the other is the black and white textbook side of it.
what you said is certainly not wrong... and 1000000% NOT racist. It's the complete opposite.
if it were any other type of student, I would agree. But this is also a population who could say something about someone being black and get themselves in trouble if it's taught to them as well.... It's more like, for their everyday functioning, what's the most important thing for them to know?
I'm not sure I have the answer for this.
But it also doesn't sit 100% well with me to not teach them things based on this possibility. I think it's more because I don't believe in holding back teachings to kids or adults with developmental disabilities. I think they deserve a chance. there's no telling if they would or wouldn't make a comment about race.
My niece has cerebral palsy and they said she would never do soo many things that she was able to do... and had they not tried and worked really hard with her she probably wouldn't be doing them now. But I wouldn't hold back on their potential due to the fact that "she might not use that teaching the right way" or "she might not really understand that" or "there's no point in her learning that because it doesn't assist in her daily functioning".
Does that make sense?? I just don't believe in ceilings for special needs kids.
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:34 AM |
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MrsKS
Thank You St. Gerard.....
Member since 12/09 8306 total posts
Name:
Kerri
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
However... just to say this...
I think if they aren't getting it, then no need for her to get upset or frustrated. She should either change her approach on the topic...
or move onto a new topic.
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:39 AM |
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groovypeg
:)
Member since 5/05 2423 total posts
Name:
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
Posted by MrsKS
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by MrsKS
i see both sides.
you are looking at it from a very kumba ya love everyone way. In a good sense. A great sense actually.
she is seeing it as an educational failure that they just don't understand what she's trying to teach them.
One is the feelings side and the other is the black and white textbook side of it.
what you said is certainly not wrong... and 1000000% NOT racist. It's the complete opposite.
if it were any other type of student, I would agree. But this is also a population who could say something about someone being black and get themselves in trouble if it's taught to them as well.... It's more like, for their everyday functioning, what's the most important thing for them to know?
I'm not sure I have the answer for this.
But it also doesn't sit 100% well with me to not teach them things based on this possibility. I think it's more because I don't believe in holding back teachings to kids or adults with developmental disabilities. I think they deserve a chance. there's no telling if they would or wouldn't make a comment about race.
My niece has cerebral palsy and they said she would never do soo many things that she was able to do... and had they not tried and worked really hard with her she probably wouldn't be doing them now. But I wouldn't hold back on their potential due to the fact that "she might not use that teaching the right way" or "she might not really understand that" or "there's no point in her learning that because it doesn't assist in her daily functioning".
Does that make sense?? I just don't believe in ceilings for special needs kids.
I don't think it has anything to do about ceilings. I think it is about a) does this teacher really know how to teach because all people are capable of learning and b)how will these students use this information in a functional manner to be independent and productive. Because to spend months on teaching 1 concept for them not to use is wasting the precious time we have with them.
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:40 AM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
Posted by MrsKS
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by MrsKS
i see both sides.
you are looking at it from a very kumba ya love everyone way. In a good sense. A great sense actually.
she is seeing it as an educational failure that they just don't understand what she's trying to teach them.
One is the feelings side and the other is the black and white textbook side of it.
what you said is certainly not wrong... and 1000000% NOT racist. It's the complete opposite.
if it were any other type of student, I would agree. But this is also a population who could say something about someone being black and get themselves in trouble if it's taught to them as well.... It's more like, for their everyday functioning, what's the most important thing for them to know?
I'm not sure I have the answer for this.
But it also doesn't sit 100% well with me to not teach them things based on this possibility. I think it's more because I don't believe in holding back teachings to kids or adults with developmental disabilities. I think they deserve a chance. there's no telling if they would or wouldn't make a comment about race.
My niece has cerebral palsy and they said she would never do soo many things that she was able to do... and had they not tried and worked really hard with her she probably wouldn't be doing them now. But I wouldn't hold back on their potential due to the fact that "she might not use that teaching the right way" or "she might not really understand that" or "there's no point in her learning that because it doesn't assist in her daily functioning".
Does that make sense?? I just don't believe in ceilings for special needs kids.
It's not necessarily about ceilings but more about not grasping the reality of some of these children.
Some more functioning children will get it. Some will NEVER get it. Regardless! Should they be taught. YES!!! But you have to accept that you chances of sucess are much lower in those hard concepts. Because those concepts are VERY complicated.
I am talking about PDD especially. PERVASIVE Developement Disorder. That's the whole concept of this.
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:46 AM |
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MrsKS
Thank You St. Gerard.....
Member since 12/09 8306 total posts
Name:
Kerri
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
Posted by groovypeg
Posted by MrsKS
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by MrsKS
i see both sides.
you are looking at it from a very kumba ya love everyone way. In a good sense. A great sense actually.
she is seeing it as an educational failure that they just don't understand what she's trying to teach them.
One is the feelings side and the other is the black and white textbook side of it.
what you said is certainly not wrong... and 1000000% NOT racist. It's the complete opposite.
if it were any other type of student, I would agree. But this is also a population who could say something about someone being black and get themselves in trouble if it's taught to them as well.... It's more like, for their everyday functioning, what's the most important thing for them to know?
I'm not sure I have the answer for this.
But it also doesn't sit 100% well with me to not teach them things based on this possibility. I think it's more because I don't believe in holding back teachings to kids or adults with developmental disabilities. I think they deserve a chance. there's no telling if they would or wouldn't make a comment about race.
My niece has cerebral palsy and they said she would never do soo many things that she was able to do... and had they not tried and worked really hard with her she probably wouldn't be doing them now. But I wouldn't hold back on their potential due to the fact that "she might not use that teaching the right way" or "she might not really understand that" or "there's no point in her learning that because it doesn't assist in her daily functioning".
Does that make sense?? I just don't believe in ceilings for special needs kids.
I don't think it has anything to do about ceilings. I think it is about a) does this teacher really know how to teach because all people are capable of learning and b)how will these students use this information in a functional manner to be independent and productive. Because to spend months on teaching 1 concept for them not to use is wasting the precious time we have with them.
my ceiling comment was more specifically to the idea of not even attempting to teach something because it's not something they would need in a day to day situation. I think it's worth a shot. if it doesn't work then it doesn't work and rather than (the teacher) get upset over it, go onto another topic that they either do understand or would be something more necessary for them to know about.
I agree about moving onto another topic. I wouldn't ever say to waste months on teaching this one concept. it's not as necessary as other topics would be. But I'd give it a whirl. If it didn't work, then change the approach (just to give it a 2nd try in the same day) and if they still don't get it then move it along. I added to my post in a 2nd post right after about moving on.
i don't know anything about the competence level of this particular teacher. I don't have much to go on with the teacher's level of expertise other than this one post about her. So if she is or isn't capable... I have really no opinion.
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:47 AM |
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MrsKS
Thank You St. Gerard.....
Member since 12/09 8306 total posts
Name:
Kerri
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
Posted by smdl
Posted by MrsKS
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by MrsKS
i see both sides.
you are looking at it from a very kumba ya love everyone way. In a good sense. A great sense actually.
she is seeing it as an educational failure that they just don't understand what she's trying to teach them.
One is the feelings side and the other is the black and white textbook side of it.
what you said is certainly not wrong... and 1000000% NOT racist. It's the complete opposite.
if it were any other type of student, I would agree. But this is also a population who could say something about someone being black and get themselves in trouble if it's taught to them as well.... It's more like, for their everyday functioning, what's the most important thing for them to know?
I'm not sure I have the answer for this.
But it also doesn't sit 100% well with me to not teach them things based on this possibility. I think it's more because I don't believe in holding back teachings to kids or adults with developmental disabilities. I think they deserve a chance. there's no telling if they would or wouldn't make a comment about race.
My niece has cerebral palsy and they said she would never do soo many things that she was able to do... and had they not tried and worked really hard with her she probably wouldn't be doing them now. But I wouldn't hold back on their potential due to the fact that "she might not use that teaching the right way" or "she might not really understand that" or "there's no point in her learning that because it doesn't assist in her daily functioning".
Does that make sense?? I just don't believe in ceilings for special needs kids.
It's not necessarily about ceilings but more about not grasping the reality of some of these children.
Some more functioning children will get it. Some will NEVER get it. Regardless! Should they be taught. YES!!! But you have to accept that you chances of sucess are much lower in those hard concepts. Because those concepts are VERY complicated.
I am talking about PDD especially. PERVASIVE Developement Disorder. That's the whole concept of this.
I totally agree. What I'm saying is... I'd try it, if it worked then great, if not then moving on.
My ceiling was just more of a give it a try... don't not teach it off the bat under the assumption they won't get it.
ETA: I didn't mean my post of not holding back teachings to mean to continue teaching a topic that they clearly don't understand for weeks or months until they do understand it. I meant it in more of a give it a try.
Message edited 2/15/2011 11:51:31 AM.
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:49 AM |
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
There's absolutely no ceiling. I am firm in that position.
However, ther must be a prioritization of skill, and there needs to be that awareness when teaching this population. These kids have difficulty with discriminations, and very simple concepts that are necessary for their everyday functioning. Concepts that are taught to them everyday.
To expect that a very specific concept taught to them one time a year that does not have any impact on their lives in any way at all, and expect that that concept is Going to stick is not realistic.
And to get frustrated about eleven and twelve year olds not getting a concept like that needs to be examined. The way to examine any skill is to look at rate of skill acquisition in that individual, the past history of learning, and the functionality of that skill.
Message edited 2/15/2011 6:29:14 PM.
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:52 AM |
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
I'm not saying not to teach it, but it needs to be taught according to their learning styles, and with an understanding of how they grasp concepts overall. Based in their language, grasp of abstract concepts, and how it relates to them functionally....
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:54 AM |
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JennB
My princess <3
Member since 5/09 2473 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
I think you had a great response! Why is it so important to know to distinguish between black and white or whatever color?? I think its odd that the teacher asks what color a person is when they walk in the room.
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:55 AM |
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MrsKS
Thank You St. Gerard.....
Member since 12/09 8306 total posts
Name:
Kerri
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Re: Thoughts? Regarding black history month....
Posted by lipglossjunky73
I'm not saying not to teach it, but it needs to be taught according to their learning styles, and with an understanding of how they grasp concepts overall. Based in their language, grasp of abstract concepts, and how it relates to them functionally....
does this particular teacher have other issues in teaching these types of students?
Is this like a one time deal or an ongoing problem??
This post sounds like she's not teaching effectively in a manner they would specifically understand. as if her teaching skills need refreshing. On multiple topics. not just this one.
she def shouldn't be showing frustration. I hope she's at least letting it out to you and not allowing the students to see it.
Oh and eta: I thought you were saying to NOT teach this topic at all because they might stay the wrong thing to the wrong person. I understand what you were saying now. especially after your last 2 posts.
Message edited 2/15/2011 12:00:06 PM.
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| Posted 2/15/11 11:58 AM |
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