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MrsPenthouse
LIF Adult
Member since 11/10 924 total posts
Name:
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Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
Just looking to vent and hopeful that anyone has had a positive experience with this.
We had expected to close on our home this week and instead are in limbo because it turns out the house is missing a CO for a garage conversion.
Our lawyer says it's very odd because EVERYTHING on that house has proper permits/filings in place, apparantley the former owner (this is an estate sale) was a police officer and did everything by the book. Maybe the CO was lost/misfiled....no idea.
The sellers have hired an expediter but I know it can still take months. I am heartbroken that we a loan approved to close and this comes up because sellers are allowed to put houses on the market without all proper docs in place. I mean, I get that the kids don't own the home but I don't understand how someone is allowed to list a house that isn't ready to sell.
Our hard earned money is sitting in an account not generating any return in the equity markets because we are waiting this out, hopeful that things might come together by some miracle.
To add insult to injury, it's the Town of North Hempstead which is notoriously slow and sucky.
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Posted 8/14/13 2:32 PM  |
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LoveLee2009
LIF Infant
Member since 6/12 275 total posts
Name:
St.Gerard
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Re: Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
this is actually very common!
it happened to us and they expedited the process and from putting the application for a permit in till the TOH inspector came it was 6 weeks..but we closed with a high amount in escrow so it didnt delay us too much.
this is also happening to some friends closing now..
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| Posted 8/14/13 2:42 PM |
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MrsPenthouse
LIF Adult
Member since 11/10 924 total posts
Name:
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Re: Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
Posted by LoveLee2009
this is actually very common!
it happened to us and they expedited the process and from putting the application for a permit in till the TOH inspector came it was 6 weeks..but we closed with a high amount in escrow so it didnt delay us too much.
this is also happening to some friends closing now..
I am leery of closing with an escrow, too much can go against us and while I know it's remote I'm very risk averse.
I'm sad to learn this is common, it should be required that a seller have all COs in place before an agent can list, seems like a double standard.
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| Posted 8/14/13 2:47 PM |
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JandJ1224
Member since 6/06 5911 total posts
Name:
Jannette
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Re: Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
Make sure you take into account the amount your taxes may go up after the paperwork goes through the town.
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| Posted 8/14/13 2:51 PM |
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MrsPenthouse
LIF Adult
Member since 11/10 924 total posts
Name:
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Re: Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
Posted by JandJ1224
Make sure you take into account the amount your taxes may go up after the paperwork goes through the town.
Thanks, definitely have.
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| Posted 8/14/13 2:56 PM |
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LoveLee2009
LIF Infant
Member since 6/12 275 total posts
Name:
St.Gerard
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Re: Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
i was also afraid but the amount of money they had in escrow they want back so they had no choice.
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| Posted 8/14/13 3:05 PM |
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Beth
The Key to your new home....
Member since 2/06 24849 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
who is requiring the c/o? banks generally don't care about a garage conversion
unless you want it- there should be no reason not to close with out it
I aviod this now by running title searches earlier in the transaction- this shouldn't be coming up the week before
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| Posted 8/14/13 3:35 PM |
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MrsPenthouse
LIF Adult
Member since 11/10 924 total posts
Name:
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Re: Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
Posted by Beth
who is requiring the c/o? banks generally don't care about a garage conversion
unless you want it- there should be no reason not to close with out it
I aviod this now by running title searches earlier in the transaction- this shouldn't be coming up the week before
The bank is ok closing withoug it but our lawyer strongly advises against closing without it in hand...there's the remote scenario of the conversion not being up to code and having to either tear it down or remediate it.
Glad to hear you're running searches earlier in the process...that makes so much sense.
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| Posted 8/14/13 3:52 PM |
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LoriH
There's no place like home
Member since 8/07 4110 total posts
Name:
Lori
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Re: Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
I feel your pain. We are in a similar situation except they are missing a CO for the rear dormer and upstairs bath. The bank will not even close with money in escrow and we do not want to. They also needed a variance which was the reason the permits were being held. The variance hearing was last week, so they should have permits in a few weeks. We already sold our house and are now living with family. We are at the point where we can get out soon but would have to start all over. Whatever we decide we are stuck in limbo for another month at the absolute least.... We can't even easily get an apt at the moment because we have no idea how long it is going to take right now could be weeks or months.
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| Posted 8/15/13 8:14 AM |
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JDubs
different, not less
Member since 7/09 13160 total posts
Name:
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Re: Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
is it possible to close with money in escrow? This is what we did because the sellers needed a CO to maintain the 6 ft fence. The contract at closing stated they had 4 months to get the CO otherwise we would get the money from the escrow account (the amount was based on the cost to build a new fence). Good luck!
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| Posted 8/15/13 8:59 AM |
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JackiePags
They're the love of my life
Member since 8/10 1299 total posts
Name:
Jackie
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Re: Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
Posted by JDubs
is it possible to close with money in escrow? This is what we did because the sellers needed a CO to maintain the 6 ft fence. The contract at closing stated they had 4 months to get the CO otherwise we would get the money from the escrow account (the amount was based on the cost to build a new fence). Good luck!
This is exactly what we are doing with an upstairs attic conversion. There was a building permit that expired - we are closing without the CO being taken care of.
Why are you weary of closing with money in escrow?
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| Posted 8/15/13 9:11 AM |
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LoriH
There's no place like home
Member since 8/07 4110 total posts
Name:
Lori
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Re: Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
Posted by JackiePags
Posted by JDubs
is it possible to close with money in escrow? This is what we did because the sellers needed a CO to maintain the 6 ft fence. The contract at closing stated they had 4 months to get the CO otherwise we would get the money from the escrow account (the amount was based on the cost to build a new fence). Good luck!
This is exactly what we are doing with an upstairs attic conversion. There was a building permit that expired - we are closing without the CO being taken care of.
Why are you weary of closing with money in escrow?
I'm not the OP but our lawyer advised against it. For smaller items such as fences and decks she said it was fine. However with items such as extensions and dormers she felt we should not do it. The amount of money that would need to be held in escrow if the entire dormer needs to be rebuilt or an extension needs to be rebuilt/torn down is significant. Our bank would not allow it anyway.
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| Posted 8/15/13 9:49 AM |
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JackiePags
They're the love of my life
Member since 8/10 1299 total posts
Name:
Jackie
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Re: Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
Posted by LoriH
Posted by JackiePags
Posted by JDubs
is it possible to close with money in escrow? This is what we did because the sellers needed a CO to maintain the 6 ft fence. The contract at closing stated they had 4 months to get the CO otherwise we would get the money from the escrow account (the amount was based on the cost to build a new fence). Good luck!
This is exactly what we are doing with an upstairs attic conversion. There was a building permit that expired - we are closing without the CO being taken care of.
Why are you weary of closing with money in escrow?
I'm not the OP but our lawyer advised against it. For smaller items such as fences and decks she said it was fine. However with items such as extensions and dormers she felt we should not do it. The amount of money that would need to be held in escrow if the entire dormer needs to be rebuilt or an extension needs to be rebuilt/torn down is significant. Our bank would not allow it anyway.
That makes sense then. We already know the windows need to be bigger upstairs (through expeditor) not such a large job.
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| Posted 8/15/13 10:03 AM |
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MrsPenthouse
LIF Adult
Member since 11/10 924 total posts
Name:
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Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
Ladies just checking in with an update...ugh! Still in a holding pattern and our rate lock expires next Friday.
This has got to be the biggest waste of time ever. An expeditor was brought in (after much delay) and his estimate is that we will need an escrow of 20-30K to be safe and ensure that the garage conversion in question can be reconverted to a garage (in the worst case that the extra living space exceeds the allowed amount for our lot). The Sellers balked at an escrow of $50 thousand (which our lawyer requested, expecting to negotiate down) and said something like $10 grand is what they expected to put up.
The sellers attorney seems to think $40 grand is reasonable and is going back to his client....I can't believe how many months of my life, how much money has been lost on this. I hate the town of North Hempstead. I feel so stupid. We missed out on other opportunities waiting for this to be resolved and now the market is dry...sigh.
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| Posted 9/19/13 1:21 PM |
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CSK
LIF Adolescent
Member since 9/11 892 total posts
Name:
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Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
not to ask a stupid qusetion, but is it OK with you if they remove the garage conversion? obviously you saw the house origionally with the room converted, I'm assuming liked it, thought it was ncie to have that additonal living space........ isn't it worth less to you and others without that living space? the cost to reconvert, isn't immaterial, but not a HUGE deal. the lost value/space would be a big deal to me
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| Posted 9/19/13 3:46 PM |
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MrsPenthouse
LIF Adult
Member since 11/10 924 total posts
Name:
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Re: Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
Posted by CSK
not to ask a stupid qusetion, but is it OK with you if they remove the garage conversion? obviously you saw the house origionally with the room converted, I'm assuming liked it, thought it was ncie to have that additonal living space........ isn't it worth less to you and others without that living space? the cost to reconvert, isn't immaterial, but not a HUGE deal. the lost value/space would be a big deal to me
Not a stupid question at all, for the price of the house we would be willing to deal with having a garage vs. the living space it currently is for the short term but would would look to sell the house in a few years. As it stands, it appraised for almost 10% above asking so I definitely think it's a great opportunity even with the lost living space.
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| Posted 9/19/13 3:53 PM |
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JandJ1224
Member since 6/06 5911 total posts
Name:
Jannette
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Re: Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
I don't understand how the expeditor wouldn't be familiar with the zoning regarding allowable living area!?
Hope there is some resolution soon!
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| Posted 9/19/13 4:01 PM |
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Re: Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
Honestly, Town of North Hempstead is notorious for being asked to come in to get a C/O for item x, and then finding violations re: items a, b, c, and d that they weren't even asked about. There could be additional interior changes that wouldn't show up when the title company investigates, especially if it's an older home. I have a deal right now in Town of North Hempstead and when looking into the cost of getting a C/O for a deck, a host of other issues came up that did not and would not show up on title... things like washer/dryer being moved from main floor to basement, venting for bathrooms, etc. So inviting the town in to inspect the garage conversion in order to get the C/O may open a whole can of worms re: the house. It's almost as if TONH wants people to rebuild their entire houses up to current building codes, which is not realistic and is cost prohibitive!
Also, just for perspective - almost every house on Long Island has missing C/Os (unless it's a new construction), so it's not as if you started over with another house you would necessarily be any better off. Of course, something major and integral to the house, like an addition, a dormer, etc., can't and shouldn't be overlooked. But something like a garage conversion shouldn't be that big of a deal to handle.
With something that's obviously been changed, it really benefits you to ask to see C/Os prior to going to contract. A lot of sellers think they have them, but they don't (or they have open permits that haven't been closed out, etc.). If a seller can't produce documentation, the only way to know for sure if there's a C/O in place for an improvement on the property is to go to the town and look it up.
At this point, I think the simplest thing to do would be either to have them give you a credit to compensate you for the fact that the garage conversion is not legal and has no value, or have them reconvert the space back to a garage. If the garage was original to the house (or added with a C/O later), then converting it back solves the C/O issue. Did your lender's appraisal factor in the converted living space into the interior square footage. Often, the lenders I deal with don't care if a garage has been converted without C/O BUT they won't factor that converted space into square footage. If that space wasn't even factored into the appraisal as living space, then there's no harm in converting it back, which is usually not that big of a project to do.
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| Posted 9/19/13 4:29 PM |
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LINewbie
Tigger the the Rescue!
Member since 8/08 5647 total posts
Name:
LB
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Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
Well, it is probably too late but we closed before we got the CO for the basement remodel. I know something was written in the contract about it - I guess it was the escrow thing that was mentioned (It was 5 years ago, I don't remember!). We needed to have a few things fixed and needed a variance for ceiling height (granted as long a it wasn't sleeping quarters... good thing the illegal apt. it was before never had a fire!)
Anyway sorry your lawyer was holding you back... it was a PITA but it did work out for us. (for some reason the garage conversion had one but the basement didn't)
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| Posted 9/20/13 1:13 PM |
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MrsPenthouse
LIF Adult
Member since 11/10 924 total posts
Name:
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Re: Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
Posted by Century 21 Dallow - Christine Braun
Honestly, Town of North Hempstead is notorious for being asked to come in to get a C/O for item x, and then finding violations re: items a, b, c, and d that they weren't even asked about. There could be additional interior changes that wouldn't show up when the title company investigates, especially if it's an older home. I have a deal right now in Town of North Hempstead and when looking into the cost of getting a C/O for a deck, a host of other issues came up that did not and would not show up on title... things like washer/dryer being moved from main floor to basement, venting for bathrooms, etc. So inviting the town in to inspect the garage conversion in order to get the C/O may open a whole can of worms re: the house. It's almost as if TONH wants people to rebuild their entire houses up to current building codes, which is not realistic and is cost prohibitive!
Also, just for perspective - almost every house on Long Island has missing C/Os (unless it's a new construction), so it's not as if you started over with another house you would necessarily be any better off. Of course, something major and integral to the house, like an addition, a dormer, etc., can't and shouldn't be overlooked. But something like a garage conversion shouldn't be that big of a deal to handle.
With something that's obviously been changed, it really benefits you to ask to see C/Os prior to going to contract. A lot of sellers think they have them, but they don't (or they have open permits that haven't been closed out, etc.). If a seller can't produce documentation, the only way to know for sure if there's a C/O in place for an improvement on the property is to go to the town and look it up.
At this point, I think the simplest thing to do would be either to have them give you a credit to compensate you for the fact that the garage conversion is not legal and has no value, or have them reconvert the space back to a garage. If the garage was original to the house (or added with a C/O later), then converting it back solves the C/O issue. Did your lender's appraisal factor in the converted living space into the interior square footage. Often, the lenders I deal with don't care if a garage has been converted without C/O BUT they won't factor that converted space into square footage. If that space wasn't even factored into the appraisal as living space, then there's no harm in converting it back, which is usually not that big of a project to do.
Christine and lovely ladies who weighed in, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to share your experiences.
We JUST scheduled for a Tuesday closing! The sellers have agreed to a concession of $25K (our attorney is amazing) which is beyond what I could have imagined. At this point I will believe this is all real when I have the keys in my hand but wonderful news indeed!
Message edited 9/20/2013 4:26:27 PM.
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| Posted 9/20/13 4:12 PM |
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Re: Venting- House we were a week from closing on is missing a Certificate of Occupancy..
Posted by MrsPenthouse
Posted by Century 21 Dallow - Christine Braun
Honestly, Town of North Hempstead is notorious for being asked to come in to get a C/O for item x, and then finding violations re: items a, b, c, and d that they weren't even asked about. There could be additional interior changes that wouldn't show up when the title company investigates, especially if it's an older home. I have a deal right now in Town of North Hempstead and when looking into the cost of getting a C/O for a deck, a host of other issues came up that did not and would not show up on title... things like washer/dryer being moved from main floor to basement, venting for bathrooms, etc. So inviting the town in to inspect the garage conversion in order to get the C/O may open a whole can of worms re: the house. It's almost as if TONH wants people to rebuild their entire houses up to current building codes, which is not realistic and is cost prohibitive!
Also, just for perspective - almost every house on Long Island has missing C/Os (unless it's a new construction), so it's not as if you started over with another house you would necessarily be any better off. Of course, something major and integral to the house, like an addition, a dormer, etc., can't and shouldn't be overlooked. But something like a garage conversion shouldn't be that big of a deal to handle.
With something that's obviously been changed, it really benefits you to ask to see C/Os prior to going to contract. A lot of sellers think they have them, but they don't (or they have open permits that haven't been closed out, etc.). If a seller can't produce documentation, the only way to know for sure if there's a C/O in place for an improvement on the property is to go to the town and look it up.
At this point, I think the simplest thing to do would be either to have them give you a credit to compensate you for the fact that the garage conversion is not legal and has no value, or have them reconvert the space back to a garage. If the garage was original to the house (or added with a C/O later), then converting it back solves the C/O issue. Did your lender's appraisal factor in the converted living space into the interior square footage. Often, the lenders I deal with don't care if a garage has been converted without C/O BUT they won't factor that converted space into square footage. If that space wasn't even factored into the appraisal as living space, then there's no harm in converting it back, which is usually not that big of a project to do.
Christine and lovely ladies who weighed in, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to share your experiences.
We JUST scheduled for a Tuesday closing! The sellers have agreed to a concession of $25K (our attorney is amazing) which is beyond what I could have imagined. At this point I will believe this is all real when I have the keys in my hand but wonderful news indeed!
You are welcome, and congrats on scheduling the closing! It's never done til it's done, but think positive. 
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| Posted 9/20/13 5:21 PM |
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