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DebG
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Member since 5/05 18602 total posts
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Spin off vehicular manslaughter
Do you think this is a crappy deal?
You decide to drive drunk you make a decision that you might kill someone.
I think this should NEVER be an option in a drunk driving case.
Can you persuade me to believe in VM?
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Posted 9/12/06 5:29 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
This is what i found:
MANSLAUGHTER - The unlawful killing of a human being without malice or premeditation, either express or implied; distinguished from murder, which requires malicious intent.
The distinctions between manslaughter and murder, consists in the following: In the former, though the act which occasions the death be unlawful, or likely to be attended with bodily mischief, yet the malice, either express or implied, which is the very essence of murder, is presumed to be wanting in manslaughter.
It also differs from murder in this, that there can be no accessaries before the fact, there having been no time for premeditation. Manslaugbter is voluntary, when it happens upon a sudden heat; or involuntary, when it takes place in the commission of some unlawful act.
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| Posted 9/12/06 5:33 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
I am assuming that the INTENT part is where the difference is
in the case of this guy who killed the little girl in the wedding party
i am not sure there was a INTENT to kill her
Message edited 9/12/2006 5:35:05 PM.
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| Posted 9/12/06 5:34 PM |
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DebG
Pick a cause & stand up for it
Member since 5/05 18602 total posts
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The cure IS worse!
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
Se, I guess I just think that drinking and making the decision to drive IS malicious intent
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| Posted 9/12/06 5:34 PM |
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Redhead
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Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
Posted by DebG
Se, I guess I just think that drinking and making the decision to drive IS malicious intent
i don't think it is a malicious intent to KILL though
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| Posted 9/12/06 5:35 PM |
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Beth
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Beth
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
vehicular manslaughter isn't just for drunk drivers
it can apply to other driving accidents-
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| Posted 9/12/06 5:38 PM |
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Redhead
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Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
Posted by Beth1210
vehicular manslaughter isn't just for drunk drivers
it can apply to other driving accidents-
true...like irresponsible driving
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| Posted 9/12/06 5:40 PM |
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Redhead
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Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
vehicular manslaughter n. the crime of causing the death of a human being due to illegal driving of an automobile, including gross negligence, drunk driving, reckless driving, or speeding. Vehicular manslaughter can be charged as a misdemeanor (minor crime with a maximum punishment of a year in county jail or only a fine) or a felony (punishable by a term in state prison) depending on the circumstances. Gross negligence or driving a few miles over the speed limit might be charged as a misdemeanor, but drunk driving resulting in a fatality is most likely treated as a felony. Death of a passenger, including a loved one or friend, can be vehicular manslaughter if due to illegal driving
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| Posted 9/12/06 5:41 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9509 total posts
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
Posted by DebG
Se, I guess I just think that drinking and making the decision to drive IS malicious intent
I agree.
To elaborate, I feel as though in the case of drunk driving there is intent - you drove your car somewhere and then made the decision to start drinking when you were in a clear frame of mind. You knew that you would likely drive home at the end of the night so i feel like the decision to start drinking is malicious intent.
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| Posted 9/12/06 5:45 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
and to be honest...
i really don't care what it is called
i think that the PUNISHMENT for VM should be severe
i think for VM in the second degree it is punishable up to 15 years in prison
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| Posted 9/12/06 5:48 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
Posted by lululu
Posted by DebG
Se, I guess I just think that drinking and making the decision to drive IS malicious intent
I agree.
To elaborate, I feel as though in the case of drunk driving there is intent - you drove your car somewhere and then made the decision to start drinking when you were in a clear frame of mind. You knew that you would likely drive home at the end of the night so i feel like the decision to start drinking is malicious intent.
but it isn't INTENT to KILL
IMO there is a difference there
ETA...whether you drove your car anywhere really has little to do with anything
that IMO doesn't make the act more INTENT...
plenty of people call for rides...
Message edited 9/12/2006 5:50:26 PM.
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| Posted 9/12/06 5:49 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
this is all correct.
they needed to differentiate the punishment a person who had the desire to terminate someone elses life, from the punishment a person who through their actions unintentionally caused the termination of another life.
even murder is broken down into different catergories.
drunk driving is a mitigating factor, which can have an influence on the maximum sentence...
impairment in decision making of any kind (drinking/mental state) is always taken into consideration, as it can mitigate intent.
instinctively it bothers me that someone can wipe a little girl off the face of the earth b/c they were too drunk to know how drunk they actually were and have their sentence lessened b/c of that. but the law itself makes sense. His intent was never to kill, but his lack of care and good judgement caused a terrible thing to happen.
the one consolation is that usually, when an "average" (ie not murderous) person takes a life in this type of situation, they have to live with the guilt and the shame of it, and that is a life sentence in and of itself.
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| Posted 9/12/06 5:49 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
Posted by lululu
Posted by DebG
Se, I guess I just think that drinking and making the decision to drive IS malicious intent
You knew that you would likely drive home at the end of the night so i feel like the decision to start drinking is malicious intent.
this is not necessarily the case at all.
malicious intent= I am going to get drunk, get into my car, and mow some innocent people down
extreme stupidity- I'll just have a few beers...I am totally fine enough to drive man...don't worry, I'm cool
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| Posted 9/12/06 5:51 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
i just really can't put someone who woke up one day and killed someone in the same category as a drunk driver..
i think it is terrible...
but i just do NOT see the intent to kill for a drunk driver..
we cannot sit there and say he INTENDED to kill someone that night
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| Posted 9/12/06 5:52 PM |
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Redhead
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Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
Posted by jf1975
Posted by lululu
Posted by DebG
Se, I guess I just think that drinking and making the decision to drive IS malicious intent
You knew that you would likely drive home at the end of the night so i feel like the decision to start drinking is malicious intent.
this is not necessarily the case at all.
malicious intent= I am going to get drunk, get into my car, and mow some innocent people down
extreme stupidity- I'll just have a few beers...I am totally fine enough to drive man...don't worry, I'm cool
true
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| Posted 9/12/06 5:52 PM |
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DebG
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Member since 5/05 18602 total posts
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
Posted by Redhead
Posted by DebG
Se, I guess I just think that drinking and making the decision to drive IS malicious intent
i don't think it is a malicious intent to KILL though
You know its a possibility therefor it is malicious.
With all of todays research you can't just say you didnt know it could happen or just say its a stupid mistake
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| Posted 9/12/06 5:58 PM |
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DebG
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Member since 5/05 18602 total posts
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
Posted by Redhead
malicious intent= I am going to get drunk, get into my car, and mow some innocent people down
extreme stupidity- I'll just have a few beers...I am totally fine enough to drive man...don't worry, I'm cool
by driving drunk, I do believe this is exactly what you are saying.
Message edited 9/12/2006 5:59:40 PM.
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| Posted 9/12/06 5:59 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
Posted by DebG
Posted by Redhead
Posted by DebG
Se, I guess I just think that drinking and making the decision to drive IS malicious intent
i don't think it is a malicious intent to KILL though
You know its a possibility therefor it is malicious.
With all of todays research you can't just say you didnt know it could happen or just say its a stupid mistake
i just don't see it as a intent to kill...jmho
and to be honest...
there are levels of V manslaughter..which i also agree with..
and i think if you are going to say that DD is intentful
then so is drag racing..
and all the other aspects for VM..
then what is the point of having it at all?
I just think that the PUNISHMENTS for the act should be severe
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:01 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
Posted by DebG
Posted by Redhead
malicious intent= I am going to get drunk, get into my car, and mow some innocent people down
extreme stupidity- I'll just have a few beers...I am totally fine enough to drive man...don't worry, I'm cool
by driving drunk, I do believe this is exactly what you are saying.
it's what can happen, but I am sure you know someone that has done it at least ONCE, and I am sure if you asked them, they have no (real) desire to kill anyone.
it's maddening b/c it IS avoidable if people would just smarten up and THINK before they act, BUT unless you can prove that he WANTED TO KILL...and that was his INTENTION of the evening...not to get out and have some fun with friends...but having the desire to KILL someone, then you don't have malicious intent to KILL.
how do you thendifferentiate this person from someone who just walks up to someone in the street and kills them? whether you like or agree with it, it's different, and our society looks at circumstances in deciding and meting out punishments.
Message edited 9/12/2006 6:06:59 PM.
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:05 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
Posted by jf1975
it's what can happen, but I am sure you know someone that has done it at least ONCE, and I am sure if you asked them, they have no (real) desire to kill anyone.
it's maddening b/c it IS avoidable if people would just smarten up and THINK before they act, BUT unless you can prove that he WANTED TO KILL...and that was his INTENTION of the evening...not to get out and have some fun with friends...but having the desire to KILL someone, then you don't have malicious intent to KILL.
how do you thendifferentiate this person from someone who just walks up to someone in the street and kills them? whether you like or agree with it, it's different, and our society looks at circumstances in deciding and meting out punishments.
i agree...
and exactly...if DD is murder
what is the point of having other laws?
there is a distinction for a reason..
just like there are different degrees of VMS, MS, and MURDER
i think the DA nor shoudl the public has the right to be going around changing that because they are outraged..
i mean...what if someone is caught DD (no accident)...is that INTENT FOR MURDER?
i
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| Posted 9/12/06 6:13 PM |
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DebG
Pick a cause & stand up for it
Member since 5/05 18602 total posts
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The cure IS worse!
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
Posted by Redhead
i mean...what if someone is caught DD (no accident)...is that INTENT FOR MURDER?
I have to say it is.
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| Posted 9/12/06 7:43 PM |
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suvenR
designer mutt
Member since 5/05 4239 total posts
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
I think society has a need to define every type of wrong doing and then quantify it.
Like, accidentally hitting the gas instead of the break and killing someone probably wouldn't be punished because it was a pure accident.
But, talking on your phone and forgetting to hit the break is worse, so that's punishable- minor though because it was still an accident.
and, so on and so on in increasing magnititude.
IMO, for a repeat drunk driver who's already been caught and punished when they DIDN'T kill someone to then do it again and now kill someone, the punishement should be just as severe as if we were to use the word "murder".
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| Posted 9/12/06 7:54 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Spin off vehicular manslaughter
Posted by DebG
Posted by Redhead
i mean...what if someone is caught DD (no accident)...is that INTENT FOR MURDER?
I have to say it is.
but that will never hold up..
that will never happen realistically..
what i do think should happen
is the penalty for VMS should be stiffer..AND i think that a prior offense should be taken into account during sentencing
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| Posted 9/12/06 7:57 PM |
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