So frustrated! Do you think this is right? UPDATED

We took the boys, my step-sons and DS, to Disney for two weeks, August 9 - 22. BM took them on vacation to Tennessee where her father lives for two weeks in July. We have the boys every other weekend and Tuesdays and Thursday evenings from when DH pics them up after work until between 8 p.m. and 10 p.m. depending on school, etc.

We have not seen the boys since we came back from vacation.

Last week, we expected that she was going to keep them on Tuesday and Thursday since she hadn't seen them in two weeks. OK - we understand. DH just got a text from BM that she's keeping the boys today. He tries to call her... of course, no answer. Our next weekend with them is September 18 because she has them Labor Day this year.

We are already feeling anxious and sad about how we will probably be seeing less of them when school starts because at ages 12 and almost 10, they are getting into sports at school, friends, and lots of homework.

The fact of the matter is there is really nothing we can do to "make' her "let us have" the boys when we are supposed to, but is this reasonable or right?

I could just use some support I guess...

Thanks!




UPDATE:

So today, our next regularly scheduled day, after not calling DH back (he called again yesterday), she calls today and says perfectly nicely, if you have the checkbook in the car... I need the CS check when you pick the boys up today. I also need co-pay reimbursement because I brought SS to doctor. OH... now she wants her money so she'll "LET" DH pick up the boys...

I know in the great scheme of things this is trivial nonsense, but I am so infuriated right now... She made no mention of why she kept them on Tuesday (or last week for that matter) or why she didn't return his calls. DH didn't ask either, which surprises me. I think he's just getting worn down. In the past, he would have jumped down her throat. I guess he knows by now it's pointless... she does what she wants.

I guess I just needed to vent.

Thanks for listening!

Message edited 9/3/2009 12:56:18 PM.

Re: So frustrated! Do you think this is right?

Is there a visitation agreement? Is it written in there that you DH gets the boys those nights? If so, he should attempt to pick them up and when she doesn't show, DH's lawyer has him call the police to make a record of the fact. Ignoring the visitation agreement is a giant no-no. The police won't do anything other than make an official report, but you can use it in court.l

Re: So frustrated! Do you think this is right?

The boys are old enough now, I'd let them have some input on what they'd like to do. It's not fair that she keeps them on nights/weekends you're supposed to have them; especially since I'm sure the boys want to see their father and you and DS. DH should call and talk to his sons; if they say they want to be with him then he should go pick them up regardless of what she says. If they want to be with their mother then just drop it.

Re: So frustrated! Do you think this is right?

Re: So frustrated! Do you think this is right?

Re: So frustrated! Do you think this is right?

Posted by cgdg61606

Posted by imthecindyofcindyandkevin

The boys are old enough now, I'd let them have some input on what they'd like to do. It's not fair that she keeps them on nights/weekends you're supposed to have them; especially since I'm sure the boys want to see their father and you and DS. DH should call and talk to his sons; if they say they want to be with him then he should go pick them up regardless of what she says. If they want to be with their mother then just drop it.

She won't even answer the phone to let the boys talk to DH. She's totally uncooperative. If she would call or text DH with a reason why she needs to keep them... school clothes shopping, even as lame as that reason is since she could take them any other time, at least she's communicating... She sends a text simply saying she's keeping them and then doesn't reply to texts or answer her phone. We've always been agreeable when she asks to keep them during our visitation for things that seem reasonable, but to just keep them and refuse to communicate is infuriating.

Thank you for your reply!

Re: So frustrated! Do you think this is right?

Posted by imthecindyofcindyandkevin

Posted by cgdg61606

Posted by imthecindyofcindyandkevin

The boys are old enough now, I'd let them have some input on what they'd like to do. It's not fair that she keeps them on nights/weekends you're supposed to have them; especially since I'm sure the boys want to see their father and you and DS. DH should call and talk to his sons; if they say they want to be with him then he should go pick them up regardless of what she says. If they want to be with their mother then just drop it.

She won't even answer the phone to let the boys talk to DH. She's totally uncooperative. If she would call or text DH with a reason why she needs to keep them... school clothes shopping, even as lame as that reason is since she could take them any other time, at least she's communicating... She sends a text simply saying she's keeping them and then doesn't reply to texts or answer her phone. We've always been agreeable when she asks to keep them during our visitation for things that seem reasonable, but to just keep them and refuse to communicate is infuriating.

Thank you for your reply!

Totally uncool!! It makes me so mad to hear stuff like that!!

Is there any way you can get your older SS a cell phone? Maybe add him to your family plan with restricted minutes, chaperone, that kind of thing. DD is 12 and she got one now that she's becoming more independent (home alone from school for a while). It's for her to use in emergencies but it's also a great way for us to reach her if necessary.

I know if BM tried to pull that crap DH would be over there so fast knocking down the door to see his kid.

Re: So frustrated! Do you think this is right?

If the visitation agreement states that he is supposed to have them and if when you do finally see/speak to your SS's and they express interest in seeing dad on the regularly scheduled days-

I would first- Send a registered, return receipt letter to BM...very matter of fact stating....Per our custody agreement, visitation is scheduled to take place on XYZ at so and so time. Please have the boys ready for pick-up at scheduled time etc...

Although I know a police report is the "next step" I have had a very unfortunate experience with that but my SD was younger (8)...BM brainwashed my SD into thinking my DH was trying to get her in trouble ( or something along those lines) Having her watch out the window as my DH filled out the report ( which is lawyer instructed him to do)

For me, I would exhaust all possibe options before the police as it ended up being extremely traumitizing for my SD...

Keep a log of all contact attempts and ultimately he may need to go to court to enforce the visitation or possibly have a law guardian act on behalf of the children...

I am sorry you are going through this, unfortunately I know the feeling all too well

Re: So frustrated! Do you think this is right?

Posted by Bops

If the visitation agreement states that he is supposed to have them and if when you do finally see/speak to your SS's and they express interest in seeing dad on the regularly scheduled days-

I would first- Send a registered, return receipt letter to BM...very matter of fact stating....Per our custody agreement, visitation is scheduled to take place on XYZ at so and so time. Please have the boys ready for pick-up at scheduled time etc...

Although I know a police report is the "next step" I have had a very unfortunate experience with that but my SD was younger (8)...BM brainwashed my SD into thinking my DH was trying to get her in trouble ( or something along those lines) Having her watch out the window as my DH filled out the report ( which is lawyer instructed him to do)

For me, I would exhaust all possibe options before the police as it ended up being extremely traumitizing for my SD...

Keep a log of all contact attempts and ultimately he may need to go to court to enforce the visitation or possibly have a law guardian act on behalf of the children...

I am sorry you are going through this, unfortunately I know the feeling all too well

Re: So frustrated! Do you think this is right?

Its such a tough situation...My SD also has a loyalty to her mother , and also walks on egg-shells around her afraid to say she wants to come for visits or "gasp'"that she HAD A GOOD TIME ....

Although technically visitation in paperwork looks nice and its easy for people to tell you to "just go to court", once you walk out of the court-room and you are supposed to have visits with the child, you have no idea what emotional turmoil the child is being put through at their home over wanting to see their non residential father/mother...

The most important thing above all the legal mumbo jumbo for your DH to do is just always re-itterate to your SS's
( when he does see/speak to them) is that they are always welcome to come over and that you all loves them very much and thinks of them all the time...
We also photocopy every piece of mail/cards that we send to SD, because one day she WILL be old enough to make her own decisions and opinions and she will see that my DH never let a holiday go by etc...( BM has witheld things from my SD)...

You may/may not have followed my story, but we lost over 2 years worth of seeing my SD due to the parental alienation tactics of her BM ...For 8+ years she was a regular part of our lives, then suddenly visitaion just stopped altogether ( BM lost in court over a CS increase and it hit the fan)

Only now have we started to regain a relationship with my SD...We kept mail contact which eventually tuned into phone contact....It finally all payed off because now we get to see her again, and she comes happily !

We have resorted to the fact that our visits will no longer occur every other week-end and vacations as they used to , but now we take what we can get and make the most of the time we DO get to see her ...Now that she is 11, my DH goes straight through her to set up visits and only has contact with the BM mainly through written correspondence ( unless of course its something medical etc..)...


Anyhow, bottom line is to make sure you keep records and tell the boys you love them every chance you get..there is nothing you can do about the crummy relationship with the BM, but there IS things you can do to make sure your relationship with your SS's is not

Re: So frustrated! Do you think this is right?

Posted by Bops

Its such a tough situation...My SD also has a loyalty to her mother , and also walks on egg-shells around her afraid to say she wants to come for visits or "gasp'"that she HAD A GOOD TIME ....

Although technically visitation in paperwork looks nice and its easy for people to tell you to "just go to court", once you walk out of the court-room and you are supposed to have visits with the child, you have no idea what emotional turmoil the child is being put through at their home over wanting to see their non residential father/mother...

The most important thing above all the legal mumbo jumbo for your DH to do is just always re-itterate to your SS's
( when he does see/speak to them) is that they are always welcome to come over and that you all loves them very much and thinks of them all the time...
We also photocopy every piece of mail/cards that we send to SD, because one day she WILL be old enough to make her own decisions and opinions and she will see that my DH never let a holiday go by etc...( BM has witheld things from my SD)...

You may/may not have followed my story, but we lost over 2 years worth of seeing my SD due to the parental alienation tactics of her BM ...For 8+ years she was a regular part of our lives, then suddenly visitaion just stopped altogether ( BM lost in court over a CS increase and it hit the fan)

Only now have we started to regain a relationship with my SD...We kept mail contact which eventually tuned into phone contact....It finally all payed off because now we get to see her again, and she comes happily !

We have resorted to the fact that our visits will no longer occur every other week-end and vacations as they used to , but now we take what we can get and make the most of the time we DO get to see her ...Now that she is 11, my DH goes straight through her to set up visits and only has contact with the BM mainly through written correspondence ( unless of course its something medical etc..)...


Anyhow, bottom line is to make sure you keep records and tell the boys you love them every chance you get..there is nothing you can do about the crummy relationship with the BM, but there IS things you can do to make sure your relationship with your SS's is not

Re: So frustrated! Do you think this is right?

Well, the way I understand it- There needs to be a just cause for a CS increase....When the magistrate asked the BM what the reasons were that she felt that she should be granted an increase- The only reason she could give is that she pays for internet service for my SD to use the computer ....The judge said " Is your daughter the only person in the home that uses the computer?" BM replied yes ....( menawhile she also has a 14 year old DD from a previous relationship)...She also turned down free childcare by me , so the judge could see it wan't about having enough $,...Basically, amongst many other things, BM totally ruined her credibility with the magistarate thus no increase...

The magistrate could tell that she brought him to court out of spite ( BM didn't handle the fact that my DS was born very well and things went down hill from there)

ETA- my DH already pays
50% extra-curricular activities,

100% of health coverage,

50% camp and school related expenses

48% of child-care ( oh yeah, he used to pay 50% but when BM brought him for the increase and the judge did the pro-rata, judge said my DH was OVERPAYING for childcare - BM was NOT happy about that - LOL) So not only did BM NOT get an increase, she ended up with a decrease of sorts !

So sometimes they do factor those types of things in ( meaning if your DH didnt previously pay for sports etc because they were too young, and now that they are older they have additional expenses because of that)

Message edited 9/2/2009 11:21:27 AM.

Re: So frustrated! Do you think this is right?

Posted by Bops

Well, the way I understand it- There needs to be a just cause for a CS increase....When the magistrate asked the BM what the reasons were that she felt that she should be granted an increase- The only reason she could give is that she pays for internet service for my SD to use the computer ....The judge said " Is your daughter the only person in the home that uses the computer?" BM replied yes ....( menawhile she also has a 14 year old DD from a previous relationship)...She also turned down free childcare by me , so the judge could see it wan't about having enough $,...Basically, amongst many other things, BM totally ruined her credibility with the magistarate thus no increase...

The magistrate could tell that she brought him to court out of spite ( BM didn't handle the fact that my DS was born very well and things went down hill from there)

ETA- my DH already pays
50% extra-curricular activities,

100% of health coverage,

50% camp and school related expenses

48% of child-care ( oh yeah, he used to pay 50% but when BM brought him for the increase and the judge did the pro-rata, judge said my DH was OVERPAYING for childcare - BM was NOT happy about that - LOL) So not only did BM NOT get an increase, she ended up with a decrease of sorts !

So sometimes they do factor those types of things in ( meaning if your DH didnt previously pay for sports etc because they were too young, and now that they are older they have additional expenses because of that)

Re: So frustrated! Do you think this is right?

Posted by cgdg61606

Posted by Bops

Well, the way I understand it- There needs to be a just cause for a CS increase....When the magistrate asked the BM what the reasons were that she felt that she should be granted an increase- The only reason she could give is that she pays for internet service for my SD to use the computer ....The judge said " Is your daughter the only person in the home that uses the computer?" BM replied yes ....( menawhile she also has a 14 year old DD from a previous relationship)...She also turned down free childcare by me , so the judge could see it wan't about having enough $,...Basically, amongst many other things, BM totally ruined her credibility with the magistarate thus no increase...

The magistrate could tell that she brought him to court out of spite ( BM didn't handle the fact that my DS was born very well and things went down hill from there)

ETA- my DH already pays
50% extra-curricular activities,

100% of health coverage,

50% camp and school related expenses

48% of child-care ( oh yeah, he used to pay 50% but when BM brought him for the increase and the judge did the pro-rata, judge said my DH was OVERPAYING for childcare - BM was NOT happy about that - LOL) So not only did BM NOT get an increase, she ended up with a decrease of sorts !

So sometimes they do factor those types of things in ( meaning if your DH didnt previously pay for sports etc because they were too young, and now that they are older they have additional expenses because of that)

Thank you so much for the info.

So DH was already paying the set % of his current salary for CS and she requested more on top of that?

DH's CS hasn't been ajusted since 2002, but from what i understand, if BM wants it adjusted, she has to bring him to court and therefore pay to bring him to court. Does that sound right?

Message edited 9/2/2009 12:32:49 PM.

Re: So frustrated! Do you think this is right?

Posted by Bops

Posted by cgdg61606

Posted by Bops

Well, the way I understand it- There needs to be a just cause for a CS increase....When the magistrate asked the BM what the reasons were that she felt that she should be granted an increase- The only reason she could give is that she pays for internet service for my SD to use the computer ....The judge said " Is your daughter the only person in the home that uses the computer?" BM replied yes ....( menawhile she also has a 14 year old DD from a previous relationship)...She also turned down free childcare by me , so the judge could see it wan't about having enough $,...Basically, amongst many other things, BM totally ruined her credibility with the magistarate thus no increase...

The magistrate could tell that she brought him to court out of spite ( BM didn't handle the fact that my DS was born very well and things went down hill from there)

ETA- my DH already pays
50% extra-curricular activities,

100% of health coverage,

50% camp and school related expenses

48% of child-care ( oh yeah, he used to pay 50% but when BM brought him for the increase and the judge did the pro-rata, judge said my DH was OVERPAYING for childcare - BM was NOT happy about that - LOL) So not only did BM NOT get an increase, she ended up with a decrease of sorts !

So sometimes they do factor those types of things in ( meaning if your DH didnt previously pay for sports etc because they were too young, and now that they are older they have additional expenses because of that)

Thank you so much for the info.

So DH was already paying the set % of his current salary for CS and she requested more on top of that?

DH's CS hasn't been ajusted since 2002, but from what i understand, if BM wants it adjusted, she has to bring him to court and therefore pay to bring him to court. Does that sound right?

My DH and the BM were never married...

The BM wrote up an agreement w/ an attorney and my DH hired an attorney to review it and they settled on an amount out of court...It was never a set 17%, it was just an amount that they both agreed was fair at the time....

In the agreement it also outlined the extra-curriculars, schooling, camps, childcare, health coverage etc...They also agreed on that together...

When you go to court, they will ask both parents to bring a W-2, income tax form, and fill out a form regarding personal monthly expenses, bank statements...The judge takes it all into consideration combined...

Just because 7 years has passed does not automatically qualify her for an increase ( in my DHs' case 8 years )
Time is not the only determining factor and neither is increase in the support payers wages...Bluntly stated in the determination that was made to my DH by the court ( they mail you the verdict) it says something to the effect of " It appears the plaintiff ( BM) is merely interested in the respondents increased wages and therfore her request is denied"....Cost of living however is factored in...

As for her having to pay to bring him to court...She doesn't need an attorney to represent her in family court and that is the only expense she would incur if she chose to hire one...There is no fee to apply for a modification

ETA- I really like this attorneys site, here is a list of some reasons for an increase:http://www.sarilaw.com/Family_Law/Modification_of_Child_Support.aspx

Re: So frustrated! Do you think this is right?

Exactly- her financial situation is also taken into consideration so it very well may not be worth it for her

Re: So frustrated! Do you think this is right?

It feels so good to vent to people who understand!!!

Thank you all!!

Re: So frustrated! Do you think this is right? UPDATED

Update in first post...

Thanks for your support!!

Re: So frustrated! Do you think this is right? UPDATED

Omg, just read your update.

So DH should go pick up the boys, give her the CS and anything else she's entitled to, and then tonight he should call her and tell her he's going to keep the boys tomorrow too. I'm sure your DH is above her level but it's sweet revenge to show her that 2 can play that game.

And while you have your 12 y/o SS with you I would stress the fact that the cell phone is so that DH can get in touch with him too, it's not just for BM. If he's afraid he's going to get in trouble with BM, tell him to call DH and he'll deal with her.

Re: So frustrated! Do you think this is right? UPDATED

She sounds all too familiar

Well, from this point on, I would say your DH should show up on his scheduled days and document, document, document.....Every time your SS's are not there, write it down and keep a log ( unless you decide to go the police report route, than that will suffice)

I still suggest he send her a registered return receipt letter stating his intentions per their agreement...

At this point, not only is she disrespecting your DH and her children, but she is violating a court order which is a big no no ...

Sorry you have to deal with this