Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

This is a complete reversal from other legal decisions made on the matter.

Total mistake in my opinion. A parent should have the right to choose who is in his/her child's life as long as he/she is a fit parent.

Hopefully it will be appealed & knocked down.

Any other opinions?

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Grandmother wins visitation with grandson
BY ANN GIVENS
[email protected]

February 16, 2007

A Huntington man lost a five-year fight to keep his mother-in-law away from his son yesterday when the state's highest court ruled that a law allowing grandparents visitation rights is constitutional.

According to the Court of Appeals decision, the grandmother, Ethel Schutz, 82, lived with her daughter, son-in-law and grandson beginning in 1997 while her daughter was terminally ill with breast cancer. After her daughter died in 1998, Schutz continued to live there and care for her grandson, the decision said.

But then Schutz had a falling out with her daughter's husband over parenting techniques, and Schutz was asked to leave, the decision said.

Since then, Schutz has been fighting for the right to visit her grandson. Her son-in-law, a law professor who was not named in the decision, has argued in court that "fit parents enjoy a constitutional right to determine with whom their children associate."

Reached at home yesterday, Schutz said she's thrilled that she will get to see her 13-year-old grandson regularly - one weekend a month, and once a month for dinner.

The father's lawyer, William O'Leary of Albany, declined to comment, saying publicity is not in the boy's best interest.

Under state law, grandparents can seek visitation rights with their grandchildren only if one parent has died, the decision said. If the surviving parent objects to the visits, then the grandparent must prove that the visits are in the child's best interest, the decision said.

"While this presumption creates a high hurdle, the grandmother in this case surmounted it: From the time the child was almost 4 until he was 7, grandmother was his surrogate, live-in mother," Judge Susan Philips Read wrote.

Schutz said she never wanted the case to go to trial, but in the end she was willing to do whatever it took to see her grandson. Asked why that was so important, Schutz said, "The simple answer is because we love each other."

Message edited 2/17/2007 12:52:11 PM.

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

I think it should be a case by case basis. I mean in this case it sounds like the father is pizzed off at the grandmother. Unless she is a danger to the child why shouldn't she be able to have a relationship with her grandson. If anything happened to my DH I would never deny his parents access to our children.

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

But if he is of sound mind & for whatever reason doesn't want his child around the grandparent isn't it his right to decide that?

Think along the lines of an Anna Nicole Smith. She hated her mother. Her mother may not harm the child. Should she still have the right to have the baby one weekend a month?

I'm not saying I would deny my child their grandparents - but it should be my legal decision as long as I'm not declared unfit.

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

I understand and agree with the decision in this case. This grandmother was a "surrogate mother" to this child for quite a while. While her daughter was sick and after. To have taken this woman out of this child's life, after the loss of his mother, was wrong. That being said, I believe this sets a dangerous precedent. I believe a parent has the absolute right to decide who should be in their child's life. This will open the floodgates for grandparents to try and gain access to grandchildren they have no business being in touch with. I am a grandparent and to not see my grandson would hurt me beyond belief. However, if that decision was made, I would respect it. To do otherwise would only bring unnecessary hurt and hardship to the one person I would want to protect.

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

I feel pretty close to this case as my parents moved in last April to help take care of me. If this cancer were to get the best of me, I would HATE for my parents to have no visitation of Joseph. After all, who will tell him my mistakes as a child? who will tell him what his mom was like as a little girl? etc.
This Grandmother had such a relationship with that child and to me it sounds like Dad is just cranky at g-ma. It is a shame to make them both suffer because of his anger.

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

Message edited 2/17/2007 1:04:12 PM.

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

IMO all Grandparents love their Grandchild but they might not love their child's choice in a spouse.

If that spouse dies and there was a strong Grandparent connection prior the Grandparent's should have a right to see the child every now and then.

I can totally understand a falling out especially since the love of the both their lives was sick and then died which would lead to tons of stress. I think the courts made the right call.

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

Oh boy that is a tough one, I voted its the parents decision.
I think it would have to be based on the circumstances, this one sounds ok, just 2 different opinions on how to raise a child and since they were under her roof she felt it was ok to sound off. But I dont think its enough to keep her away from her grandson.

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

Does it change anyone's opinion if BOTH parents don't want the grandparent in the child's life?

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

I voted that grandparents have the right to see their grandchildren as long as they are not a negative influence.

This case hit very close to home for me, becuase my sister who is a single mother of 2, has recently decided to cut off all contact with my parents, who have established a strong relationship with both kids. They babysat every week for 2-3 days and are completely heartbroken over this. They will most likly be hiring a lawyer to see if they have any change at a case like this, there is possiblity that my sister can be shown to be unfit so they have hope.

Unfortunatly I think that as adults we let small arguements cloud the bigger picture of what is best for the children. Even thought I certainly do not have the best relationship with my inlaws, now that my DD has established a connection with them I would never cut them out of her life.

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

Well, I see both sides of the coin here. On the one side, if it were JT's mother fighting for visitation rights, she would have absolutely NO business being around my child as she is mentally unstable. If it were MY mother fighting to see Ava after my death, I could see it being granted. My mother loves my daughter THAT much. And I would hope she would always have the right to see my DD, whether I was living or not.

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

Well the Court of Appeals is the highest court in the state, so unless they can take the case to the US Supreme Court, which is highly unlikely, this is going to stick. I have to say I am very suprised that this court decided this way.

I have a hard time forming an opinion whether its right or not. But I really think the parent should have the final say who is and isn't in their child's life.

However, I know that if I passed away, I would definitely want my mother to remain in my children's life. So in that regard, I am torn. But I do think that a weekend a month -- an overnight stay without the father's permission -- is definitely too much. I think it would sit better with me if it was a dinner a month, and a phone-call a week, or something more along those lines.

Another concern is that the law is opening the door to a ton of lawsuits. What if a parent decides that an aunt or uncle should no longer be in a child's life? Will now they have the right to sue? Its essentially taking away a parent's right to parent and leaving it in the hand's of a judge. Its much easier to say that its the parent's right to decide, presuming they are a fit parent. It also gives the judge a lot of discretion. What if another judge decides to give a grandmother a week a month? Or even joint custody? As a parent, something about a judge making these decisions does not sit right with me.

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

Who is to determine whether the grandparent is toxic or a neg. influence...????

To many my MIL- is so wonderful- but the cr@p she has put me through is beyond TOXIC... (which therefore creates turmoil w/in my family ie: for my son)

IMO- the parents should have the ultimate say who they want in their childs life... plain and simple!

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

Posted by DebG

Posted by nrthshgrl

But if he is of sound mind & for whatever reason doesn't want his child around the grandparent isn't it his right to decide that?

Think along the lines of an Anna Nicole Smith. She hated her mother. Her mother may not harm the child. Should she still have the right to have the baby one weekend a month?

I'm not saying I would deny my child their grandparents - but it should be my legal decision as long as I'm not declared unfit.

Its different, her mother was not a staple in the child's life. To me, THAT is what makes this case different. It's not like this kid just callled g-ma once a week at her retirement home in FL. SHe clothed, fed, changed, and took care of all needs.


eta- I think the father is NOT thinking of the best interest of his child. To take TWO women away.....just a shame

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

I would go along with it if it was supervised visitation. No way do I think a court should rule against parent to sent child somewhere that parent doesn't agree on.

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

I see everyones point. But, the article doesn't give enough details for me to make a decision. If the g-ma was unfit and was asked to leave that is one side, if it is just spite, that is the other side. We can't tell that from the article.

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

I don't think it's right to keep a grandparent away just out of spite, but I think that at the end of the day, the parent(s) should be allowed to decide who gets to spend time with their children.

There are some people who do and say the right things in front of other people, and are very different when it's just the parents and grandchildren around. At least that's what I've heard.

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

I have VERY strong feelings about this. My husbands mother is emotionally unstable overall and has treated my husband like garbage. She hasnt spoken or made an effort to see my son since he is 3 months old. A very selfish woman.

If she decided one day, she wanted to see him, there would be no way I would let her.

She should have no rights to see him!

Re: Grandmother wins visitation with grandson

Honestly, I don't think I know enough. If it said what their falling out was about, then perhaps I could judge better...