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Thanks!

Message edited 3/20/2016 9:43:00 PM.

Re: If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

Hi...
Obviously don't know what your reasons are for your child taking these assessments but just a few things I wanted to add..
Opting out is a personal choice. Has nothing to do with your district.
I'm a teacher and a mom to a 3rd grader and she will not be taking these tests. They are really flawed. Don't necessarily match curriculum and are developmentally inappropriate. You should check out the LI Opt out page on Facebook. You'll be able to find more information about these tests.
As for your other questions, it almost sounds like you want to study or prep your child, which believe me, they are getting enough of in school. I think it's BS that schools
Say they use these tests for placement. What did they do before when tests were only 4th and 8th grade? These tests are first and foremost used for teacher evaluation. There are many other ways schools progress monitor.
Good luck with whatever you decide!

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Message edited 3/20/2016 9:43:22 PM.

Re: If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

Okay, so I agree with the PP that you were unhappy with, but I can answer your questions:

1. How do the kids take these tests - particularly talking about the 3rd grade tests - are they scantron? or do they answer by circling in their test booklets?

SCANTRON. PLUS SOME OPEN ENDED QUESTIONS (not usually on math, just ELA)

2. The tests are a little over a month away and my DC has only covered 1/2 the math topics. Is it typical for the kids to take the tests without having learned much of the material they will be tested on?

YES, THEY FOCUS SOLELY ON TEST PREP FOR A LONG TIME THOUGH.

3. How much prep has your child done for the NYS math and ELA tests at this point if they are/were in 3rd grade?

WHEN TESTS WERE COMING AROUND IT WAS TEST PREP 24/7. AT LEAST 1-2 PERIODS PER DAY, IF NOT MORE.

4. If your child is a generally bright kid and always does well on tests did you feel that the state tests were the same? Did anyone have a situation where a bright child getting 100's for years did not perform well on the tests?

YES OF COURSE. TESTS ARE NOT A GOOD PREDICTOR. SOME OF THE WORST KIDS SCORE VERY HIGH AND SOME OF THE BEST KIDS DO NOT DO WELL.

5. where can I find a clear list of what is covered on the 3rd grade ELA? I have looked at past tests and they are all reading comp - is there grammar, usage etc. as well?

YOU CAN'T.

6. Does the 3rd grade math require written essay type responses or is it all numbers and showing work?

UNLESS IT CHANGED IN THE PAST 5 YEARS, (VERY LIKELY) BUT IT WAS JUST SCANTRON FOR MATH.

Re: If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

It's scantron plus written responses for BOTH ELA and Math. The math written response might ask your child to explain how try got their answer or to use two statements to explain why an answer is correct or not.

It's impossible to get through the whole curriculum before the test.

There are a limited selection of sample questions available online, but there is no list of the types of questions you can expect to see.

Re: If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

Message edited 2/21/2016 9:42:36 AM.

Re: If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

Re: If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

I am a third grade teacher on LI. It appears that other posters have mostly answered your questions, however, I just wanted to add that I am only halfway through module 3 in math, and there are 7 modules, putting my class at the halfway mark as well.

In addition to that I do almost no test prep that is specific to the state tests.

I hope that helps.

If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

1. How do the kids take these tests - particularly talking about the 3rd grade tests - are they scantron? or do they answer by circling in their test booklets? Scantron and written response in booklets and the best part is how many times I have seen students bubble 1 question wrong and the rest of the test is then wrong. It is against the law as a test administrator to tell the students to go back and fix their bubbling.

2. The tests are a little over a month away and my DC has only covered 1/2 the math topics. Is it typical for the kids to take the tests without having learned much of the material they will be tested on? Much of the tests are on material that has not been taught, and is developmentally inappropriate.

3. How much prep has your child done for the NYS math and ELA tests at this point if they are/were in 3rd grade? Generally the real push is 4 weeks before. However, all of those test workbooks, computer based programs are year long.

4. If your child is a generally bright kid and always does well on tests did you feel that the state tests were the same? Did anyone have a situation where a bright child getting 100's for years did not perform well on the tests? I have had many STRONG students score 1's and 2's. Sometimes, the brightest students over think these poorly constructed tests, run out of time, testing anxiety etc. Students that you would have thought to be the highest scorers often are not.

5. where can I find a clear list of what is covered on the 3rd grade ELA? I have looked at past tests and they are all reading comp - is there grammar, usage etc. as well? There is no clear list. That's what puts both students and teachers at a disadvantage. These are not the tests prior to common core from 5 years ago that were better constructed, predictable, and were more student friendly and achievable.

6. Does the 3rd grade math require written essay type responses or is it all numbers and showing work? Yes, they have to explain how they got their answers, and there are constructed response.

Just an FYI- it is against the law to use these NYS assessments in 3-8 as a SOLE measure for placement. A bunch of measures have to be used. So for example, if you opt out of these assessments, other measures will be used instead. Some principals and superintendents were/are using scare tactics. NYSAPE.org is a great resource to look over.

ALSO engageNY does not publish most of what the students are being tested on. Teachers have to sign off on wavers saying they will not talk about what is on the test. You will never see what your child was tested on, and neither will the teacher once the tests are over. These tests in no way shape or form are ever used again to inform instruction.

Message edited 2/21/2016 4:24:04 PM.

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Message edited 3/20/2016 9:43:53 PM.

Re: If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

Re: If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

To the OP: Can I ask what the reasons may be that you think your DC should take these tests?

It's a sincere question, I'm not trying to be snarky or create drama.

If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

My mom is a former principal and hugely supports these tests... She is completely against opting out but after reading some if the responses, i could understand why people dont want to participate.

Re: If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

My son is in 5th grade and took the tests he past 2 years and I have a son in 3rd grade who will be taking the tests for the first time this year. From what I understand from my son the ELA is a combo scantron, short answers and essays. The Math is scantron and showing work and explaining work. My son in 5th grade finds the tests to be easy and doesn't stress them. He always says day 1-2 are the easiest for ELA and day 3 is the hardest. He hates to write but does well. He is a very good student and does well year round and scored 4's both years on both parts. He follows direction well so the training he gets thru the year he follows up with on the tests.

I think a lot of what my son is doing in 3rd grade so far is preparing for the tests. The Math homework is all showing work and short answer/explanation type questions. He has weekly writing assignments where he reads passages and either answers short answers for essays each week. She is definitely grading them as they are state test questions. Not sure if they took any sample tests yet - think it may be early. I do remember after winter break it kicks in more from my older son. This son does well in school as well and I Will have him take the test. Not sure how he will do as he is very smart but very different than my other son but so far I think he do well enough to at least get 3's based on what I have seen from him so far.

Message edited 2/23/2016 7:22:50 AM.

Re: If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

When my daughter took the tests in seventh grade, she scored below average (1's and 2's) after being in high honors her entire school career. The next year, we refused the tests.

As a sophomore in high school right now, she is ranked 6th in her high school class of 425! Does that sound like someone who is below average to you? She's already getting offers from colleges.

These tests are flawed. My kids will never take another one.

Re: If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

Sent u a FM Chatham chick :)

Message edited 2/23/2016 5:11:03 PM.

Re: If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

This article was written by Michael Hynes, Superintendent of Pat-Med. It's a very good article for anyone that is on the fence.


When it comes to advocating what is best for our students, I try hard to push back but not push buttons. It’s difficult not to push buttons.

To date, the U.S. Education Department will not relent on requirements to test students on English Language Arts and mathematics in third through eighth grades. In December, it reminded New York State that federal funding could be at stake if too many children don’t take the tests. Because parents of 240,000 students opted out of state assessments last year, hundreds of public schools fell below the 95 percent participation rate. This year will be higher.


Here are the facts for the testing season this spring:

EDITORIAL
Editorial: What new education law can’t lose sight of
State Education Commissioner MaryEllen Elia and Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo have said parents have the right to opt out their third- through eighth-graders of assessments.
Assessments of third- through eighth-graders will not count for students and teachers for the next several years
This year, assessments in ELA and mathematics are still designed by Pearson. The state Education Department did not extend its contract with the company in July. In 2012, Pearson-made tests included errors, such as an absurd reading passage with the illogical theme “Pineapples don’t wear sleeves.”
The state Education Department has pointed to significant changes in this year’s assessments. The new assessments are now untimed and have fewer questions. It may sound like something significant, but the devil is always in the details. In a memo to superintendents, Deputy Commissioner Angelica Infante-Green highlighted the “significant changes.” For example, the third- and fourth-grade ELA tests will have four reading passages (one fewer than last year) and seven short essays (one fewer than last year).
The assessments are age-inappropriate and aligned with the Common Core standards, which won’t exist as we know them in New York State in the future. In December, Elia said new standards would be designed and rewritten over the next few years. In fact, she said, “We’ve already started it.”
Knowing this, why would any student take these assessments? Over-testing students with invalid and unreliable state assessments is not what’s best for our children. The answer is to swing the testing pendulum back toward reality — focusing on the whole child. This includes the social, emotional and academic growth for all our students. This means more play and recess for children. We can do this as we hold students, teachers and school districts accountable.

There is value in appropriate and varied assessments for different purposes that inform students, parents, the school district and community. But assessments should never be attached to teacher performance. For assessment to have any value, it needs to move away from the autopsy model to a daily checkup. This in turn will allow teachers and principals to continuously identify student strengths, accomplishments and talents so we can design the ideal learning experiences that meet student needs. Preparing students for the workforce takes a back seat to preparing our children for success in life.


School districts with high opt-out rates should not be penalized with loss of federal education funds. These students need resources the most. In fact, school districts with the highest opt-out rates should be rewarded because that exemplifies that we value our children.

The next few months will set the stage for the next 40 years in public education. To get to the root of the problem, we first must define it. We don’t have a child problem. The problem is the adult leaders who influence and set policy and mandates for school districts related to perpetuating the autopsy model. These adults make decisions that reduce our children to numbers, and the “substantive changes” proposed by state education officials are fixes that fail.



Pushing the pendulum back to focus on the whole child is what’s best for all children.

Re: If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

My DD will not be taking the test. There is no reason to take them. Why subject kids to taking week long tests for nothing. The scores mean nothing, they can not do placement on these scores alone, they do not show a true potential in a student. they do not factor into class averages. Remedial services can be obtained without these test scores and getting into to honors can also be done without the test scores. I'd rather they use these two weeks to add some fun learning into the curriculum which is now lacking due to common core.

Re: If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

Re: If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

Here's my personal experience. Both DH and I were on the same page that DS would be taking the tests, if and only if they passed his 504, which they did the Friday before tests began. My DS is ADD Inattentive and I knew he would need extra time to do his best. He wasn't stressed about the test, as our district doesn't make kids feel it's the end-all be-all. I told him to take just take his time and do his best. That's it. It turns out he did exceptionally well. Does that mean anything in the grand scheme? No, of course not. But we felt it was important for him to get used to the idea of testing, as that's something he will deal with all throughout school. The pressure and time management lessons were more important to us then the results.

If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

I have a random question. When I was in elementary school I remember taking CAT tests. From what I recall, they had some really ridiculous questions and reading passages. They were timed as well. To this day, I have no clue what they were for, but everyone took them. There was no "opting out."

How were those tests different from the ones they are giving today? My son is in 2nd grade now, so I haven't had to make a decision yet for him.

Re: If you are a teacher or if your child has taken the state tests...questions for you

Message edited 3/20/2016 8:17:28 AM.

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