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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
Name:
That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
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Re: Excessive money charged by toyota on lease
Posted by angelicd77
Posted by ave1024
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by mommy2be716
yes that is 100% right. 3k down means 3k PLUS the taxes which you pay based on the whole vehicle. So if it's a 30k car at our tax rate in NY, you pay approx. $2500. Plus title and registration is over 3k. So that is why it's 6k down.
ETA: never put any money down on a lease, especially the taxes. God forbid you drive off that lot and total the car, you just lost all that money on tax that you will never get back.
Agree. We have a Toyota Highlander and we put ZERO down. We paid the taxes, fees and first lease payment. Never put money down on a lease, it's a waste of your money.
This. You never put any money down on a lease and you never get the gap insurance either. Obviously it's too late for OP since she did both and it's already done, but you know for next time. I have only ever leased cars, I will never buy one.
Yeah leases have tons of fees. I am personally not a fan of leasing although I did lease a new car a few months ago. I have a business I can deduct a leased car against so that helps offset all the fees.
I forgot about the dealer doc fee in my estimate above. NYS caps it at like $85 but CT and NJ can charge whatever they want (as much as 400-500 in some places). So maybe that brings it closer to 6k if the car was bought outside of NYS.
Doc fee in NY is $75 and that will be changing very soon. It will be much higher, comparable to the states around us.
When is this changing? I looked this up online and see nothing about it changing anytime in the future. Got a link that backs this up?
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Posted 12/20/19 2:39 PM  |
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angelicd77
LIF Adolescent
Member since 12/13 794 total posts
Name:
Kim
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Re: Excessive money charged by toyota on lease
Posted by ave1024
Posted by angelicd77
Posted by ave1024
Posted by longislemom
Thanks everyone. Its a 2020 camry and 21,667.00.
The lease paper says ...ugh. ill just take a pic i think lol
.
I was so mad but she drove to work this morning and asked me to drive behind her. so I'm just gonna relish in her happiness and learn from you gals IF i ever lease again.
I think its just horrible how these car dealerships take advantage of consumers.
I crunched numbers so I am struggling how you paid 6k down. I came up with maybe 5000, but 6000 is difficult.
3000 down payment
650 acquisition fee
200 title/tags
152 1st month payment
1014 taxes
For taxes I assumed MSRP on the car was 24k. Residual on these Camrys on average is about 51%. That means you have to cover the 49% in your lease payments and you only pay taxes on the lease payments.
24000 * .49 * .08625 = 1014
Am I missing something?
money factor. dont even try to figure out a lease payment without a program. its impossible. even with putting the numbers into a program its virtually impossible to duplicate deals too.
I included .00007 MF on my initial numbers which gave me somewhere a $152 monthly payment but I only needed $5000 at signing to get there.
Of course no idea what the MF on this deal was. Dealers can mark up the MF to their liking if they choose. Residual cannot be modified.
OP would need to take a scan or picture of the deal to better examine it.
You absolutely cannot markup a money factor or any rate to what you want. There would be no point in credit tiers or approvals at that point. Sometimes you cant mark up a rate at all. Especially if its a program rate. It is what it is. I do contracts and DMV all day long for 10+ years. And .00007 is well below what any program rate would be. Our best rates right now are .00215 and thats on a tier 1 with a discount for being a previous customer. As far as residuals, that CAN change based on certain accessories purchased. Some higher ticket items can be residualized and put into the payment so that you arent paying the full amount on the accessory.
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| Posted 12/20/19 2:40 PM |
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angelicd77
LIF Adolescent
Member since 12/13 794 total posts
Name:
Kim
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Re: Excessive money charged by toyota on lease
Posted by ave1024
Posted by angelicd77
Posted by ave1024
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by mommy2be716
yes that is 100% right. 3k down means 3k PLUS the taxes which you pay based on the whole vehicle. So if it's a 30k car at our tax rate in NY, you pay approx. $2500. Plus title and registration is over 3k. So that is why it's 6k down.
ETA: never put any money down on a lease, especially the taxes. God forbid you drive off that lot and total the car, you just lost all that money on tax that you will never get back.
Agree. We have a Toyota Highlander and we put ZERO down. We paid the taxes, fees and first lease payment. Never put money down on a lease, it's a waste of your money.
This. You never put any money down on a lease and you never get the gap insurance either. Obviously it's too late for OP since she did both and it's already done, but you know for next time. I have only ever leased cars, I will never buy one.
Yeah leases have tons of fees. I am personally not a fan of leasing although I did lease a new car a few months ago. I have a business I can deduct a leased car against so that helps offset all the fees.
I forgot about the dealer doc fee in my estimate above. NYS caps it at like $85 but CT and NJ can charge whatever they want (as much as 400-500 in some places). So maybe that brings it closer to 6k if the car was bought outside of NYS.
Doc fee in NY is $75 and that will be changing very soon. It will be much higher, comparable to the states around us.
When is this changing? I looked this up online and see nothing about it changing anytime in the future. Got a link that backs this up?
It was a dealer association notification we got a few months ago. There is no set date that we know of as of yet. Its up with Albany now for approval.
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| Posted 12/20/19 2:41 PM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
Name:
That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
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Re: Excessive money charged by toyota on lease
Posted by angelicd77
You absolutely cannot markup a money factor or any rate to what you want. There would be no point in credit tiers or approvals at that point. Sometimes you cant mark up a rate at all. Especially if its a program rate. It is what it is. I do contracts and DMV all day long for 10+ years. And .00007 is well below what any program rate would be. Our best rates right now are .00215 and thats on a tier 1 with a discount for being a previous customer. As far as residuals, that CAN change based on certain accessories purchased. Some higher ticket items can be residualized and put into the payment so that you arent paying the full amount on the accessory.
Money factor can MOST DEFINITELY be marked up if a dealer chooses to do it. Amazing that you say you work for a dealer and don't know this. Maybe your dealership doesn't do it, but some do and it's something that a buyer needs to keep an eye out for. Residual cannot be marked up.
How dealers can mark up money factor
Different manufacturers offer different MFs on their lease deals. Some manufacturers offer very low MFs to attract lease buyers and aim for lower payments.
.00007 MF is available for a 2019 Camry because Toyota want dealers to make room for 2020s. The OP didn't state what year they got. .00215 is a lousy number for a lease MF. The car I leased was .00195 and I thought that was insane high. But I bought a high end and relatively rare German car which gave me that high MF.
MF for 2019 Camry
If the OP got a 2020 Camry then maybe the numbers make a little more sense as MF is little higher and no incentives. Still no where near .00215 though.
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| Posted 12/20/19 2:57 PM |
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angelicd77
LIF Adolescent
Member since 12/13 794 total posts
Name:
Kim
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Re: Excessive money charged by toyota on lease
Posted by ave1024
Posted by angelicd77
You absolutely cannot markup a money factor or any rate to what you want. There would be no point in credit tiers or approvals at that point. Sometimes you cant mark up a rate at all. Especially if its a program rate. It is what it is. I do contracts and DMV all day long for 10+ years. And .00007 is well below what any program rate would be. Our best rates right now are .00215 and thats on a tier 1 with a discount for being a previous customer. As far as residuals, that CAN change based on certain accessories purchased. Some higher ticket items can be residualized and put into the payment so that you arent paying the full amount on the accessory.
Money factor can MOST DEFINITELY be marked up if a dealer chooses to do it. Amazing that you say you work for a dealer and don't know this. Maybe your dealership doesn't do it, but some do and it's something that a buyer needs to keep an eye out for. Residual cannot be marked up.
How dealers can mark up money factor
Different manufacturers offer different MFs on their lease deals. Some manufacturers offer very low MFs to attract lease buyers and aim for lower payments.
.00007 MF is available for a 2019 Camry because Toyota want dealers to make room for 2020s. The OP didn't state what year they got. .00215 is a lousy number for a lease MF. The car I leased was .00195 and I thought that was insane high. But I bought a high end and relatively rare German car which gave me that high MF.
MF for 2019 Camry
If the OP got a 2020 Camry then maybe the numbers make a little more sense as MF is little higher and no incentives. Still no where near .00215 though.
Okay- Absolutely different manufacturers offer different programs and money factors but they cant be marked up by any arbitrary amount. I didn't say they couldn't be marked up at all. There are rules that need to be followed, but obviously you know better than I do. Ill take my real world, on the job experience over some internet article. But thanks.
ETA- Those responses on Edmunds could be anyone. Ive NEVER seen lease rates that low. Neither has my Office Manager who has been in the auto industry 25+ years. Oh, and realcartips.com? Seriously? Find me a legitimate, dealer related source and Ill entertain reading it.
Message edited 12/20/2019 3:10:03 PM.
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| Posted 12/20/19 3:01 PM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
Name:
That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
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Re: Excessive money charged by toyota on lease
Posted by angelicd77
Okay- Absolutely different manufacturers offer different programs and money factors but they cant be marked up by any arbitrary amount. There are rules that need to be followed, but obviously you know better than I do. Ill take my real world, on the job experience over some internet article. But thanks.
The rules that need to be followed is residual cannot be marked up as that is based off MSRP, both are set by manufacturer. Acquisition and Disposition fee is set by the bank. Doc fees are bogus fees, thank god NY caps them at $75 (I don't see Albany passing legislation to increase this).
Money Factor can be marked up. The bank may set a limit on how high it can go but it can definitely be marked up.
If you went on leasehackr forums saying you worked for a dealership and MF can't be marked up, you would get destroyed.
Dealer MF markups
With a lease, there is no interest rate as with a loan. The lease has what is called a “money factor” set by the lender that is applied to the “lease capitalized cost.” The dealer can mark up the money factor and get money back from the leasing company, the difference between the “buy rate” and what the dealer sells it for. It is almost impossible for the consumer to determine what the actual interest rate is. (To convert the “money factor” just multiply it by 2400. For example, a factor of .00375 is a 9% interest rate).
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| Posted 12/20/19 3:11 PM |
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angelicd77
LIF Adolescent
Member since 12/13 794 total posts
Name:
Kim
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Re: Excessive money charged by toyota on lease
Posted by ave1024
Posted by angelicd77
Okay- Absolutely different manufacturers offer different programs and money factors but they cant be marked up by any arbitrary amount. There are rules that need to be followed, but obviously you know better than I do. Ill take my real world, on the job experience over some internet article. But thanks.
The rules that need to be followed is residual cannot be marked up as that is based off MSRP, both are set by manufacturer. Acquisition and Disposition fee is set by the bank. Doc fees are bogus fees, thank god NY caps them at $75 (I don't see Albany passing legislation to increase this).
Money Factor can be marked up. The bank may set a limit on how high it can go but it can definitely be marked up.
If you went on leasehackr forums saying you worked for a dealership and MF can't be marked up, you would get destroyed.
Dealer MF markups
With a lease, there is no interest rate as with a loan. The lease has what is called a “money factor” set by the lender that is applied to the “lease capitalized cost.” The dealer can mark up the money factor and get money back from the leasing company, the difference between the “buy rate” and what the dealer sells it for. It is almost impossible for the consumer to determine what the actual interest rate is. (To convert the “money factor” just multiply it by 2400. For example, a factor of .00375 is a 9% interest rate).
again, I DIDNT say it couldn't be marked up. I said there are GUIDELINES to be followed. And I couldn't care less what some bogus online forum has to say. I do this every day and its what feeds my kids and pays my mortgage. Benny on leasehackr means nothing to me. I don't need a lesson on how to do my job. Thanks again.
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| Posted 12/20/19 3:16 PM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
Name:
That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
|
Re: Excessive money charged by toyota on lease
Posted by angelicd77
Posted by ave1024
Posted by angelicd77
Okay- Absolutely different manufacturers offer different programs and money factors but they cant be marked up by any arbitrary amount. There are rules that need to be followed, but obviously you know better than I do. Ill take my real world, on the job experience over some internet article. But thanks.
The rules that need to be followed is residual cannot be marked up as that is based off MSRP, both are set by manufacturer. Acquisition and Disposition fee is set by the bank. Doc fees are bogus fees, thank god NY caps them at $75 (I don't see Albany passing legislation to increase this).
Money Factor can be marked up. The bank may set a limit on how high it can go but it can definitely be marked up.
If you went on leasehackr forums saying you worked for a dealership and MF can't be marked up, you would get destroyed.
Dealer MF markups
With a lease, there is no interest rate as with a loan. The lease has what is called a “money factor” set by the lender that is applied to the “lease capitalized cost.” The dealer can mark up the money factor and get money back from the leasing company, the difference between the “buy rate” and what the dealer sells it for. It is almost impossible for the consumer to determine what the actual interest rate is. (To convert the “money factor” just multiply it by 2400. For example, a factor of .00375 is a 9% interest rate).
again, I DIDNT say it couldn't be marked up. I said there are GUIDELINES to be followed. And I couldn't care less what some bogus online forum has to say. I do this every day and its what feeds my kids and pays my mortgage. Benny on leasehackr means nothing to me. I don't need a lesson on how to do my job. Thanks again.
And what are the guidelines? They can only jerk the customer a little and not a lot?
The "bogus" leasehackr online forum has the most consumer aided information on the planet. Only somebody that works at a dealership would call it bogus. 
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| Posted 12/20/19 3:22 PM |
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angelicd77
LIF Adolescent
Member since 12/13 794 total posts
Name:
Kim
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Re: Excessive money charged by toyota on lease
Riiiiight. Only someone at a dealer. Okay. This is where I’m going to end this conversation. You obviously know WAY more about my job then I do.
OP - if you have any questions, please PM me so I don’t have to explain myself to people who know better than I do. Definitely ask what the extra $6 is for though. You shouldn’t be paying for GAP on a lease.
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| Posted 12/20/19 3:31 PM |
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CSK
LIF Adolescent
Member since 9/11 892 total posts
Name:
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Re: Excessive money charged by toyota on lease
Posted by angelicd77
Riiiiight. Only someone at a dealer. Okay. This is where I’m going to end this conversation. You obviously know WAY more about my job then I do.
OP - if you have any questions, please PM me so I don’t have to explain myself to people who know better than I do. Definitely ask what the extra $6 is for though. You shouldn’t be paying for GAP on a lease.
what do you mean you shouldn't be paying for gap on a lease? It is most definitely something that you can/should have. Some lease companies have it built into their lease, others do not. You can purchase gap through the dealer or through an insurance broker if its not included.
you definitely can't change the residual rate on a car. some accessories can be residualized and some cannot, but if the residual for a Camry LE is 51% for 3/36, then its 51%, you're not making it 49% or 53%.
Money factors are marked up all the time. There may be guidelines at your dealership or the finance company you are working with, but you're making it sound like its not done and that the plethora of information out there regarding leases on the internet is irrelevant and bogus.
Message edited 12/20/2019 4:50:19 PM.
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| Posted 12/20/19 4:49 PM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
Name:
That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
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Re: Excessive money charged by toyota on lease
Posted by CSK
you definitely can't change the residual rate on a car. some accessories can be residualized and some cannot, but if the residual for a Camry LE is 51% for 3/36, then its 51%, you're not making it 49% or 53%.
Agree with all your points, just an FYI the residual can be changed if it's a advertised manufacturer's option or promo for an item being added to the car. If that's what you are referring to in your post then yeah.
For instance for an Audi lease if you buy AudiCare at the $950 or whatever it costs, Audi will increase the residual by one percentage point which is a benefit to the buyer as their lease payments go down. Audicare is prepaying your first four services and Audi feels that is the car is "well serviced" the car will be worth more at lease end. Rolling Audicare into the monthly payments barely increases the monthly payment because of the 1% different in residual saved. Any other dealer installed options cannot affect residual, at least with Audi/VW.
But yeah dealers can't mark residuals down on their own like they can mark MFs up.
Message edited 12/20/2019 5:43:49 PM.
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| Posted 12/20/19 5:42 PM |
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longislemom
LIF Adult
Member since 8/06 912 total posts
Name:
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Re: Excessive money charged by toyota on lease - UPDATED pic
pic
ugh says too large
first monthly lease 163
security deposit 0
cash down capitalied reduction 4324
rebate capitalized reduction 600
trade as capitalized red. 0
Bank acquizition 650
admin fee 0
document fee 0
NYS inspection 10
registration fee 0
upfront sales tax 564.16
sales tax on capitalized red. 424.70
sales tax on rebate 0
sales tax on admin fee 0
tire disposal fee 12.50
total 6749
less rebate 600
less deposit 1500
total at delivery 4649.00
.
Message edited 12/21/2019 4:23:51 PM.
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| Posted 12/21/19 4:12 PM |
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angelicd77
LIF Adolescent
Member since 12/13 794 total posts
Name:
Kim
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Re: Excessive money charged by toyota on lease - UPDATED pic
Posted by CSK
Posted by angelicd77
Riiiiight. Only someone at a dealer. Okay. This is where I’m going to end this conversation. You obviously know WAY more about my job then I do.
OP - if you have any questions, please PM me so I don’t have to explain myself to people who know better than I do. Definitely ask what the extra $6 is for though. You shouldn’t be paying for GAP on a lease.
what do you mean you shouldn't be paying for gap on a lease? It is most definitely something that you can/should have. Some lease companies have it built into their lease, others do not. You can purchase gap through the dealer or through an insurance broker if its not included.
you definitely can't change the residual rate on a car. some accessories can be residualized and some cannot, but if the residual for a Camry LE is 51% for 3/36, then its 51%, you're not making it 49% or 53%.
Money factors are marked up all the time. There may be guidelines at your dealership or the finance company you are working with, but you're making it sound like its not done and that the plethora of information out there regarding leases on the internet is irrelevant and bogus.
Any lease bank I have ever worked with had GAP built in. I’ve never seen a customer purchase GAP on a lease.
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| Posted 12/21/19 4:24 PM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
Name:
That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
|
Re: Excessive money charged by toyota on lease - UPDATED pic
Posted by longislemom
pic
ugh says too large
first monthly lease 163
security deposit 0
cash down capitalied reduction 4324
rebate capitalized reduction 600
trade as capitalized red. 0
Bank acquizition 650
admin fee 0
document fee 0
NYS inspection 10
registration fee 0
upfront sales tax 564.16
sales tax on capitalized red. 424.70
sales tax on rebate 0
sales tax on admin fee 0
tire disposal fee 12.50
total 6749
less rebate 600
less deposit 1500
total at delivery 4649.00
.
Why did you put down $4324 and not the $3000? All that does is lower the monthly payment which may hide the fact that the dealer is charging more for the car than the advertised price.
Everything else looks somewhat standard. Although I am curious why they have upfront sales tax and sales tax on cap red. Maybe you are financing part of the sales tax?
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| Posted 12/22/19 2:14 PM |
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hanna7636
LIF Adult
Member since 8/06 921 total posts
Name:
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Re: Excessive money charged by toyota on lease - UPDATED pic
What leasing app did you use? I am in the market for a SUV
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| Posted 12/22/19 6:44 PM |
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LuckyStar
LIF Adult
Member since 7/14 7274 total posts
Name:
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Re: Excessive money charged by toyota on lease - UPDATED pic
Posted by hanna7636
What leasing app did you use? I am in the market for a SUV
Rodo. It used to be honcker. Both cars we have the dealership wasn’t able to beat the price. Friends of ours have used it, too, and all had a good experience.
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| Posted 12/22/19 7:47 PM |
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mommy2be716
LIF Adult
Member since 1/16 2921 total posts
Name:
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Re: Excessive money charged by toyota on lease - UPDATED pic
Posted by LuckyStar
Posted by hanna7636
What leasing app did you use? I am in the market for a SUV
Rodo. It used to be honcker. Both cars we have the dealership wasn’t able to beat the price. Friends of ours have used it, too, and all had a good experience.
we used honcker for our nissan rogue. They advertised it for $291/month with like 1k down. I showed it to my dealer and they didn't notice the 1k down, but they agreed to match the price on the app. I think we paid about $500 down
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| Posted 12/23/19 2:55 PM |
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LuckyStar
LIF Adult
Member since 7/14 7274 total posts
Name:
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Re: Excessive money charged by toyota on lease - UPDATED pic
Posted by mommy2be716
Posted by LuckyStar
Posted by hanna7636
What leasing app did you use? I am in the market for a SUV
Rodo. It used to be honcker. Both cars we have the dealership wasn’t able to beat the price. Friends of ours have used it, too, and all had a good experience.
we used honcker for our nissan rogue. They advertised it for $291/month with like 1k down. I showed it to my dealer and they didn't notice the 1k down, but they agreed to match the price on the app. I think we paid about $500 down
Good for you! I couldn’t find a dealership that could match the price. With the last car the guy at the dealership was such a d!ck, trying to tell me the that I didn’t know what I was doing. Yeah, ok. Come in under the price or I’m out.
I wish there were a way to not have to test drive at a dealership. I hate even going in. I always tell them I need to be somewhere in a half hour. I don’t have time for their fake back and forth bs. “Need to check the numbers.” There’s a computer right in front of you. Are the prices written on the manager’s arm in sharpie that they aren’t readily available to you? With the Rodo app they locate the car and set up delivery. You deal with no one which is perfect for me because I hate people.
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| Posted 12/23/19 4:05 PM |
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