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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
which brings me back to the my point....
if a woman is making the ultimate decision....SHE should deal with it..
A man shouldn't be forced to be a dad
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Posted 3/8/06 9:20 PM  |
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dooodles
When you wish upon a star
Member since 5/05 11997 total posts
Name:
Because 2 people fell in love
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Posted by Colleen9304
Posted by dooodles
Where is that fair?
Isn't that part of the "rules" thouh - that you CAN get pregnant no matter what precautions you take (b/c accidents do happen and abstinence is the only 100% guarantee) and thus should take responsibility?
okay, but on the same page, how responsible is it of a woman to decide to raise a child knowing the father does not want to be a dad?
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:20 PM |
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Karen
Just chillin'!!
Member since 1/06 9690 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Posted by Colleen9304
He consented to having sex - he should live with the consequences. If he didn't want a child, he shouldn't be having sex if he can't handle the "what if's".
so you are saying that people who 100% do not want kids, should never have sex??
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:21 PM |
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dooodles
When you wish upon a star
Member since 5/05 11997 total posts
Name:
Because 2 people fell in love
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Posted by Redhead
What if the MAN wanted the child and the WOMAN didn't....
she can just abort without any input of the "dad"....
now how fair is that...
Well said Jen. Why should this all be the woman's decision?
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:21 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Posted by Colleen9304
Posted by dooodles
Where is that fair?
Isn't that part of the "rules" thouh - that you CAN get pregnant no matter what precautions you take (b/c accidents do happen and abstinence is the only 100% guarantee) and thus should take responsibility?
Yet the woman can arbitrarily decide NOT to take that responsibility....
where is it then?
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:21 PM |
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~Colleen~
my loves...
Member since 5/05 9129 total posts
Name:
guess
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Posted by dooodles
Posted by Colleen9304
Posted by mrswask
OK - so to play devil's advocate for a moment - let's say he wore a condom and it broke - let's say she was on the pill and she still got pregnant - and now chooses to have and keep the baby....
He consented to having sex - he should live with the consequences. If he didn't want a child, he shouldn't be having sex if he can't handle the "what if's".
So for a guy to consent to having sex, means he is signing on for a lifetime committment???
I think in this day and age, where we have sex-ed in school, we know what can happen if we have sex. We can get diseases and we can get pregnant. If we aren't ready or responsible enough to handle that committment, then we shouldn't be having sex.
So yes, if you're going to step up to the plate to pla in the game, you have to be prepared for whatever ball you're going to get.
IMO.
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:24 PM |
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dooodles
When you wish upon a star
Member since 5/05 11997 total posts
Name:
Because 2 people fell in love
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Posted by Colleen9304
Posted by dooodles
Posted by Colleen9304
Posted by mrswask
OK - so to play devil's advocate for a moment - let's say he wore a condom and it broke - let's say she was on the pill and she still got pregnant - and now chooses to have and keep the baby....
He consented to having sex - he should live with the consequences. If he didn't want a child, he shouldn't be having sex if he can't handle the "what if's".
So for a guy to consent to having sex, means he is signing on for a lifetime committment???
I think in this day and age, where we have sex-ed in school, we know what can happen if we have sex. We can get diseases and we can get pregnant. If we aren't ready or responsible enough to handle that committment, then we shouldn't be having sex.
So yes, if you're going to step up to the plate to pla in the game, you have to be prepared for whatever ball you're going to get.
IMO.
But why doesn't this apply to the woman the same way it does to a man?
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:25 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Posted by Colleen9304
I think in this day and age, where we have sex-ed in school, we know what can happen if we have sex. We can get diseases and we can get pregnant. If we aren't ready or responsible enough to handle that committment, then we shouldn't be having sex.
So yes, if you're going to step up to the plate to pla in the game, you have to be prepared for whatever ball you're going to get.
IMO.
true....
but the woman have:
1. the last word
2. have the ability to say NO...
where the man does not...
What if the man wanted the child? and the woman wanted to abort?
Where did the responsibility go there?
the Sex ed
the you did the deed ....you take the responisibilty?
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:27 PM |
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mrswask
Pookie Love
Member since 5/05 20229 total posts
Name:
Michal
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Posted by Colleen9304
Posted by mrswask
OK - so to play devil's advocate for a moment - let's say he wore a condom and it broke - let's say she was on the pill and she still got pregnant - and now chooses to have and keep the baby....
He consented to having sex - he should live with the consequences. If he didn't want a child, he shouldn't be having sex if he can't handle the "what if's".
I understand what you're saying - but realistically, people have sex. If you are in what you think is a trusting monogamous relationship and you are taking every precaution to have safe sex and these methods fail - due to deceit on the part of the woman - I still don't feel he should be responsible. The man truly has no choice in the decision - we all know that.
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:28 PM |
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~Colleen~
my loves...
Member since 5/05 9129 total posts
Name:
guess
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Posted by Redhead
Posted by Colleen9304
Posted by dooodles
Where is that fair?
Isn't that part of the "rules" thouh - that you CAN get pregnant no matter what precautions you take (b/c accidents do happen and abstinence is the only 100% guarantee) and thus should take responsibility?
Yet the woman can arbitrarily decide NOT to take that responsibility....
where is it then?
But by raising the child instead of handing it off to someone else (adoption) or having an abortion (which may be against her beliefs), she IS taking on the responsibility.
Why is it b/c women can get pregnant that all the responsibility SHOULD automatically be on them? Her decision to keep or abort, abort or adopt, shirk responsibility or raise the child.
I honestly think that if this ever passed, it would open too many doors for people who refuse to take responsibility. Now all they would have to say is "I never wanted the kid" and *poof* they are exhonerated of all responsibility. Scarey, imo.
Karen - no, I'm not saying people shouldn't have sex. I'm saying more people should be responsible for their actions and subsequent consequences. That goes for just about anything in life. Imo.
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:28 PM |
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~Colleen~
my loves...
Member since 5/05 9129 total posts
Name:
guess
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Posted by dooodles
But why doesn't this apply to the woman the same way it does to a man?
How doesn't it?
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:29 PM |
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VirginiaDeb
Don't eat me, hippo!
Member since 5/05 9252 total posts
Name:
Deb
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
This is such a difficult idea to really go on either side of. Are there cases where the woman tricks the man? Of course. But, at the same time, both the woman and the man took part in sex, and with sex, there is always a chance that a baby could result.
This could lead to so many fathers neglecting their responsiblity... but it could also lead to less women tricking men into pregnancies.
I really don't know on this one...
But really, what's next? A pre-sex contract. "In the event of an unplanned pregnancy, the male will or will not provide child support."
Okay, I know that's very slippery slope... but with this, who really knows?
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:30 PM |
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dooodles
When you wish upon a star
Member since 5/05 11997 total posts
Name:
Because 2 people fell in love
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Posted by Colleen9304
Posted by dooodles
But why doesn't this apply to the woman the same way it does to a man?
How doesn't it?
Because if you scroll up to read what you wrote, you are talking about the man and his responsibilities only
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:31 PM |
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~Colleen~
my loves...
Member since 5/05 9129 total posts
Name:
guess
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Posted by VirginiaDeb
But really, what's next? A pre-sex contract. "In the event of an unplanned pregnancy, the male will or will not provide child support."
Okay, I know that's very slippery slope... but with this, who really knows?
Exactly! With our litigious society, who the heck knows where this would lead us.
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:32 PM |
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mrswask
Pookie Love
Member since 5/05 20229 total posts
Name:
Michal
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Posted by Colleen9304
Posted by Redhead
Posted by Colleen9304
Posted by dooodles
Where is that fair?
Isn't that part of the "rules" thouh - that you CAN get pregnant no matter what precautions you take (b/c accidents do happen and abstinence is the only 100% guarantee) and thus should take responsibility?
Yet the woman can arbitrarily decide NOT to take that responsibility....
where is it then?
But by raising the child instead of handing it off to someone else (adoption) or having an abortion (which may be against her beliefs), she IS taking on the responsibility.
Why is it b/c women can get pregnant that all the responsibility SHOULD automatically be on them? Her decision to keep or abort, abort or adopt, shirk responsibility or raise the child.
I honestly think that if this ever passed, it would open too many doors for people who refuse to take responsibility. Now all they would have to say is "I never wanted the kid" and *poof* they are exhonerated of all responsibility. Scarey, imo.
Karen - no, I'm not saying people shouldn't have sex. I'm saying more people should be responsible for their actions and subsequent consequences. That goes for just about anything in life. Imo.
Colleen - the way you're explaining it, it does sound to me that you are saying that people should only have sex to procreate. Because IMO,you're pretty much saying that if you have sex - even if you were responsible and took every precaution, even if you were completely deceived and lied to - you have no control, no part in the decision, and now you're in it for life and you deserve that.
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:32 PM |
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~Colleen~
my loves...
Member since 5/05 9129 total posts
Name:
guess
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Posted by dooodles
Posted by Colleen9304
Posted by dooodles
But why doesn't this apply to the woman the same way it does to a man?
How doesn't it?
Because if you scroll up to read what you wrote, you are talking about the man and his responsibilities only
I was talking about the article and how in this case he should take responsibility. Regardless of what he may think, his ex's daughter is also HIS daughter. Strap it on and take responsibility. I think it's pretty cowardly to say AFTER THE FACT, "sorry, never wanted the kid in the first place". Well if you don't want it, why'd you do everything you could do to make it?
If she is raising the child, how is she NOT taking responsibility?
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:34 PM |
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dooodles
When you wish upon a star
Member since 5/05 11997 total posts
Name:
Because 2 people fell in love
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Here's the scenario:
Both men and women are aware of the consequences that having sex brings. If a woman finds out she is pregnant and they sit down and have a discussion about what they want to do. Protection was taken in this instance and an unwanted pregnancy occured. One half wants the pregnancy and the other half doesn't. For arguement sake, lets say the man wants to keep the child and the woman doesn't. So she aborts the pregnancy. This is her body and her decision correct? So why when the mother wants to keep the child and not the father, is he automatically entitled to pay her?
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:34 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
for me....
i think that the responisibilty factor when a women gets PG in these scenarios
well it is entirely up to the female.
the female gets to decided is SHE wants the child. If SHE wants the responibility. How SHE will deal with it. If SHE wants to end the PG.
IMO this is completely unfair. And it takes ANY apect of a dad out of the equation...
And if the dad isn't in the equation in the beginning then he should be forced into it after the fact
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:35 PM |
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dooodles
When you wish upon a star
Member since 5/05 11997 total posts
Name:
Because 2 people fell in love
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Posted by Colleen9304
Posted by dooodles
Posted by Colleen9304
Posted by dooodles
But why doesn't this apply to the woman the same way it does to a man?
How doesn't it?
Because if you scroll up to read what you wrote, you are talking about the man and his responsibilities only
I was talking about the article and how in this case he should take responsibility. Regardless of what he may think, his ex's daughter is also HIS daughter. Strap it on and take responsibility. I think it's pretty cowardly to say AFTER THE FACT, "sorry, never wanted the kid in the first place". Well if you don't want it, why'd you do everything you could do to make it?
If she is raising the child, how is she NOT taking responsibility?
Where is she taking responsibility making him pay child support for a child he told her he didn't want??????
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:36 PM |
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dpli
Daylight savings :)
Member since 5/05 13973 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Posted by mrswask
Posted by Colleen9304
But by raising the child instead of handing it off to someone else (adoption) or having an abortion (which may be against her beliefs), she IS taking on the responsibility.
Why is it b/c women can get pregnant that all the responsibility SHOULD automatically be on them? Her decision to keep or abort, abort or adopt, shirk responsibility or raise the child.
I honestly think that if this ever passed, it would open too many doors for people who refuse to take responsibility. Now all they would have to say is "I never wanted the kid" and *poof* they are exhonerated of all responsibility. Scarey, imo.
Karen - no, I'm not saying people shouldn't have sex. I'm saying more people should be responsible for their actions and subsequent consequences. That goes for just about anything in life. Imo.
Colleen - the way you're explaining it, it does sound to me that you are saying that people should only have sex to procreate. Because IMO,you're pretty much saying that if you have sex - even if you were responsible and took every precaution, even if you were completely deceived and lied to - you have no control, no part in the decision, and now you're in it for life and you deserve that.
I actually agree with Colleen, and I didn't take it to mean that she was saying that people should only have sex to procreate, but rather that they should think about the fact that everytime a person has sex, it is possible to conceive a child and they might have to take responsibility for that.
And she is taking responsibilty by raising the child.
Message edited 3/8/2006 9:38:33 PM.
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:37 PM |
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~Colleen~
my loves...
Member since 5/05 9129 total posts
Name:
guess
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Posted by mrswask
Posted by Colleen9304
But by raising the child instead of handing it off to someone else (adoption) or having an abortion (which may be against her beliefs), she IS taking on the responsibility.
Why is it b/c women can get pregnant that all the responsibility SHOULD automatically be on them? Her decision to keep or abort, abort or adopt, shirk responsibility or raise the child.
I honestly think that if this ever passed, it would open too many doors for people who refuse to take responsibility. Now all they would have to say is "I never wanted the kid" and *poof* they are exhonerated of all responsibility. Scarey, imo.
Karen - no, I'm not saying people shouldn't have sex. I'm saying more people should be responsible for their actions and subsequent consequences. That goes for just about anything in life. Imo.
Colleen - the way you're explaining it, it does sound to me that you are saying that people should only have sex to procreate. Because IMO,you're pretty much saying that if you have sex - even if you were responsible and took every precaution, even if you were completely deceived and lied to - you have no control, no part in the decision, and now you're in it for life and you deserve that.
Oh no, I'm definitely not saying that people should only have sex to procreate.  But one of the consequences of having sex is that you COULD get pregnant. Just like you could get a disease. I'm sure the guy who gets syphillis doesn't want it, is he not supposed to get treatment for it b/c he didn't want it? 
I'm just saying that people should take responsibility, whatever the consequences.
We don't know that he was tricked - we're only hearing his side...there are two others - hers and the truth 
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:38 PM |
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~Colleen~
my loves...
Member since 5/05 9129 total posts
Name:
guess
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Posted by dooodles
Where is she taking responsibility making him pay child support for a child he told her he didn't want??????
I think it's laughable that anyone would consider $500 a MONTH actual support of a child. But that's another story...
I don't think it's damaging his computer programming bank account to shell out $500 a month for his daughter.
What if he did want the kid? What if they got married and lived happily ever after? Then one day he wakes up 40 and itching for that red Vette - and leaves. Says he never wanted the kid or the wife. I think we'd all agree that he was an a-hole. We don't know who's telling the truth here.
Doesn't matter, imo. Just the thought of this going to legislation is dangerous. Imo. There are too many misinterpretations that could lead to a lot of fatherless kids. Where is the kid in this whole debate?
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:42 PM |
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mrswask
Pookie Love
Member since 5/05 20229 total posts
Name:
Michal
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
I agree - we don't know for a fact that he was tricked and really no way to prove it - unless there are pre-sex contracts - sounds nuts - but may be the only way
Let me add this scenario for a comparison though - we've all heard of this - or at least have seen it on TV - man or woman has HIV/AIDS - they know this - they sleep around and don't tell their partners - we know there have been cases where these people are then brought up on murder or attempted murder charges!!
So let's say - there was a way that we KNEW the woman deceived the man - isn't this in some way similar? How come she is not fully responsible then if she knowingly and intentionally set out to lie and deceive him for the purpose of having a baby, forcing a marriage, getting money...
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:42 PM |
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QuoteTheRaven424
22 Months?!!!!
Member since 5/05 13659 total posts
Name:
And If That Isn't A True Blue Miracle
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Folks,
This thread is making me laugh because I have said this before. There IS NO SUCH THING AS AN UNPLANNED PREGNANCY.
I understand that you can be on the pill or be using a condom and still get pregnant. That's one thing.
But, if you use NOTHING, you may not be actively trying, but you certainly aren't looking to prevent it either.
This UNPLANNED thing is a bunch of crap IMO. As is all of this stuff about tricks and what-not. You do the deed, there's always a risk.
All this sh*t where people say "He didn't pull out in time" or "she put a hole in my condom" -- gimme a break and grow a f*cking set.
Now, as for the question at hand.
If you're both going to be stupid and have sex unprotected, and get pregnant before either of you are ready, you both need to make the decision as to what to do with the child. If one wants the child and one doesn't, the one who wants the child should expect to take FULL financial responsibility.
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:43 PM |
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Karen
Just chillin'!!
Member since 1/06 9690 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Men Want Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
Posted by Colleen9304
Oh no, I'm definitely not saying that people should only have sex to procreate. But one of the consequences of having sex is that you COULD get pregnant. Just like you could get a disease. I'm sure the guy who gets syphillis doesn't want it, is he not supposed to get treatment for it b/c he didn't want it?
I'm just saying that people should take responsibility, whatever the consequences.
We don't know that he was tricked - we're only hearing his side...there are two others - hers and the truth
sorry, but I wouldn't compare contracting syphillis to having an unwanted child. A child is an 18 year financial contract - I don't think a case of syphillis ever lasted that long, or was that expensive!!
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| Posted 3/8/06 9:45 PM |
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