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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: Serious Question
Posted by LFitzy79
if a teens parents doesn't let them drink-then that teen knows they aren't allowed, and if they decide to drink it's thier choice. They are old enough to make the determination.
You have to be kidding me!! How many bad choices do teenagers make? I know I certainly made a few. When I was that age I was trying to act as grown up as possible and get away with as much as I could (which wasn't much). Tell me you don't know people who tried to swipe drinks when they knew they weren't allowed! Does every kid do what their parents say?
Few kids are mature enough to handle that responsibility. If all your friends were- then that is great. But in every circle there is at least one kid who isn't so responsible and didn't know their limits at 15- 18 and I can't tell how many people drank till they got drunk, sick or passed out- not to mention stupid (and dangerous) things people do while their drunk.
Following your logic- if a 16 year old girl drank despite her paretns warning, and met some guy, went home with him and was raped- she would be responsible??
Not to mention- if one of these kids got in trouble- your dad would be legally responsible and could face criminal charges. Whether you agree with it or not, it is illegal to serve minors alcohol. Anyone caught doing this can be arrested and thrown in jail.
To me- it just isn't worth the risk.
Message edited 11/15/2005 11:10:51 AM.
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Posted 11/15/05 11:08 AM  |
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unknown1
****
Member since 5/05 2771 total posts
Name:
lisa
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Re: Serious Question
Posted by LFitzy79
Posted by unbelievable
Posted by LFitzy79
Wow, I'm so in the minority, and I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I've been drinking at family events/parties since I was 14. The rules were no getting obnoxious, and drink out of a glass (my father doesn't like it when girls drink out of beer bottles). I drink more at family parties than I do when I am out with my friends.
My graduation party was in my backyard, with a full bar and two kegs...granted my dad collected keys and then determined at the end of the night who could drive, but I always drank at weddings, and so did all of my cousins.
My friends and I used to drink all the time when we were 16, whether it was at a house party, or at a restaurant that we knew would serve us, or if we chalked our id's to get into bars.....
Was it that you didn't feel comfortable with the teens driving after drinking, or that no one was in charge? Or just the drinking in and of itself?
It's terrible that it upset you so much...I'm just trying to understand why....
OK now this disturbs me how can you control the fact of getting obnoxious you can't .... and unless your farther was a cop and performed a sobriety test he had NO right to determine who gets to drive home... encouraging underage drinking is horrifying to me... IMO please don't take this personal it is just my opinion but I am truly horrified
you can control how much you drink so that you don't get obnoxious, and that's what the rules were-"know your limits".
as for being horrified by my father being the key holder, and determining who was okay to drive-I have to say-it's not encouraging underage drinking to have alcohol available, if a teens parents doesn't let them drink-then that teen knows they aren't allowed, and if they decide to drink it's thier choice. They are old enough to make the determination.
everyone has thier own opinion and that's great, it's when someone fights to make a point that there way is the "right way" that things get sticky.
I am not forcing my issue I am stating my opinion however sticky or not sticky NO minor knows their limit.. at the age of 14 I should know my bedtime not my alcohol limit....
Old Enough ???? I won't go there .. but I am sorry I don't agree
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| Posted 11/15/05 11:08 AM |
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unknown1
****
Member since 5/05 2771 total posts
Name:
lisa
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Re: Serious Question
Posted by Shellyesq
Posted by LFitzy79
if a teens parents doesn't let them drink-then that teen knows they aren't allowed, and if they decide to drink it's thier choice. They are old enough to make the determination.
You have to be kidding me!! How many bad choices did you make when you were a teenager!! I know I certainly did. When I was that age I was trying to act as grown up as possible and get away with as much as I could. Tell me you don't know people who tried to swipe drinks when they knew they weren't allowed! Does every kid do what their parents say?
Few kids are mature enough to handle that responsibility. If all your friends were- then that is great. But the kids I knew (from high school/ college/ camp) weren't all so responsible and didn't know their limits at 15- 18 and I can't tell how many people drank till they got drunk, sick or passed out- not to mention stupid (and dangerous) things people do while their drunk.
Following your logic- if a 16 year old girl drank despite her paretns warning, and met some guy, went home with him and was raped- she would be responsible??
Not to mention- if one of these kids got in trouble- your dad would be legally responsible and could face criminal charges. Whether you agree with it or not, it is illegal to serve minors alcohol. Anyone caught doing this can be arrested and thrown in jail.
To me- it just isn't worth the risk.
Well said...
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| Posted 11/15/05 11:11 AM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Serious Question
Posted by Kelly
Posted by MrsFresca
Posted by nrthshgrl
Posted by Redhead
i agree..the parents should be watching and monitoring but i think legally it is the restaurants responsibility
While it's legally the restaurants responsibility, as a parent I can say that it's 100% my job to make sure my kids are behaving.
I would've have told the manager -
I agree with this.
Well you can't be with your child every moment of every day. And chances are when they are teenagers you're not going to be going to a party with them. Certainly you can teach them and try to encourage them to make proper decisions, but at that point, I would also like to be able to trust that alcohol (for example) is not going to be readily available to them. (Especially at a family run party!)
no you can't be with your child every moment of every day but you should be aware of what your child is doing while at a party.
And if it is tooo hard for parents to watch their own children WHY SHOULD THE HOST do it?
that makes no sense at all
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| Posted 11/15/05 11:12 AM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Serious Question
Posted by LFitzy79
as for being horrified by my father being the key holder, and determining who was okay to drive-I have to say-it's not encouraging underage drinking to have alcohol available, if a teens parents doesn't let them drink-then that teen knows they aren't allowed, and if they decide to drink it's thier choice. They are old enough to make the determination.
everyone has thier own opinion and that's great, it's when someone fights to make a point that there way is the "right way" that things get sticky.
honestly it is horrifying that your dad thinks he is ok to determine who should and shouldn't drive
that is a BIG MISTAKE on his part...
just because someone "looks" or is acting ok to drive...DOES NOT mean they should be driving...
BAD BAD ERROR in judgement on your fathers part
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| Posted 11/15/05 11:14 AM |
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LFitzy79
can hardly wait
Member since 5/05 2650 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: Serious Question
Posted by unbelievable
Posted by LFitzy79
Posted by unbelievable
Posted by LFitzy79
Wow, I'm so in the minority, and I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I've been drinking at family events/parties since I was 14. The rules were no getting obnoxious, and drink out of a glass (my father doesn't like it when girls drink out of beer bottles). I drink more at family parties than I do when I am out with my friends.
My graduation party was in my backyard, with a full bar and two kegs...granted my dad collected keys and then determined at the end of the night who could drive, but I always drank at weddings, and so did all of my cousins.
My friends and I used to drink all the time when we were 16, whether it was at a house party, or at a restaurant that we knew would serve us, or if we chalked our id's to get into bars.....
Was it that you didn't feel comfortable with the teens driving after drinking, or that no one was in charge? Or just the drinking in and of itself?
It's terrible that it upset you so much...I'm just trying to understand why....
OK now this disturbs me how can you control the fact of getting obnoxious you can't .... and unless your farther was a cop and performed a sobriety test he had NO right to determine who gets to drive home... encouraging underage drinking is horrifying to me... IMO please don't take this personal it is just my opinion but I am truly horrified
you can control how much you drink so that you don't get obnoxious, and that's what the rules were-"know your limits".
as for being horrified by my father being the key holder, and determining who was okay to drive-I have to say-it's not encouraging underage drinking to have alcohol available, if a teens parents doesn't let them drink-then that teen knows they aren't allowed, and if they decide to drink it's thier choice. They are old enough to make the determination.
everyone has thier own opinion and that's great, it's when someone fights to make a point that there way is the "right way" that things get sticky.
I am not forcing my issue I am stating my opinion however sticky or not sticky NO minor knows their limit.. at the age of 14 I should know my bedtime not my alcohol limit....
Old Enough ???? I won't go there .. but I am sorry I don't agree
I never said YOU were forcing your issue. And I don't know why are are getting so heated.
Here is my point- we shouldn't be judging someone else's actions, because we are not all-knowing, and there are a million different variables-and NO ABSOLUTES.
If you don't think minors should be drinking in your home, or at your parties-then don't let them. But it's not your place to tell someone else what to do. Another poster said "it's against the law"-and it is, so those that do allow underage drinking know what the consequences are, and it's thier decision.
The whole point behind my original post was that it's not uncommon for high school kids to drink.
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| Posted 11/15/05 11:16 AM |
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suvenR
designer mutt
Member since 5/05 4239 total posts
Name:
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Re: Serious Question
I just hosted a party on Friday night for my DH.
I didn't have anyone under 21 there, but to be honest, at no time during my final prep was I ever asked if certain tables should have alcohol withheld. (I provided wine and beer at each table.) And, I never thought to exclude it. Even if I had, I don't know if the hall would have followed my instructions- quite a few things were not set up properly.
I don't think it was your place to step in at all. You really don't know what the host may have been doing or saying.
I know that I had someone drink far too much. I asked a close member of that family (who was seated at another table) to make sure that this person didn't drive home.
I would have been VERY offended if I found out that a guest went to the manager to discuss this situation. And, I'd also be very offended if I received a phone call after the fact from a guest who was questioning my actions or the way the party was set up.
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| Posted 11/15/05 11:16 AM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: Serious Question
Posted by suvenR
I just hosted a party on Friday night for my DH.
I didn't have anyone under 21 there,
That's a big difference. When you have kids there, whether you like it or not- you're responsible. There is a crime called "contributing to the delinquincy of a minor". Frankly- kids are more vulnerable. Adults are responsible for their actions, but kids aren't always. That's why the host (if they are an adult) is responsible.
ETA: What do you think of the paretn who was arrested for providing drugs, alcohol and sex to her son and hsi friends. She wanted to be a "cool mom". Now the kid has a jailed mom. Is there a difference? If so- what is it?
Message edited 11/15/2005 11:21:28 AM.
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| Posted 11/15/05 11:19 AM |
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LadyMaravilla
Fall Is Here
Member since 5/05 12023 total posts
Name:
Sonia
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Re: Serious Question
I never said YOU were forcing your issue. And Here is my point- we shouldn't be judging someone else's actions, because we are not all-knowing, and there are a million different variables-and NO ABSOLUTES.
The whole point behind my original post was that it's not uncommon for high school kids to drink.
I would have to agree w/ you Lauren. We all know it's Illegal and yet it happens all the time. We have all been raised differently and see issues in a different light. I feel that if you decide to let an underage family member be it a daughter/son/neice/nephew or whatever, just be prepared for all the consequences that come along w/ that choice. Like I said, I know a few older couples that let their kids do it. Do I judge them based on it no, I don't agree with it but I can't go to their homes and impose my parenting rules on them. 
Message edited 11/15/2005 11:26:11 AM.
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| Posted 11/15/05 11:22 AM |
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suvenR
designer mutt
Member since 5/05 4239 total posts
Name:
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Re: Serious Question
Posted by Shellyesq
Posted by suvenR
I just hosted a party on Friday night for my DH.
I didn't have anyone under 21 there,
That's a big difference. When you have kids there, whether you like it or not- you're responsible. There is a crime called "contributing to the delinquincy of a minor". Frankly- kids are more vulnerable. Adults are responsible for their actions, but kids aren't always. That's why the host (if they are an adult) is responsible.
ETA: What do you think of the paretn who was arrested for providing drugs, alcohol and sex to her son and hsi friends. She wanted to be a "cool mom". Now the kid has a jailed mom. Is there a difference? If so- what is it?
The reason I had a party at a hall was because I didn't want to have to do all of the work and worry that is involved with a party. That's why I paid the hall to have the party there. And, I paid them even more money to make beer and wine available. For $5 per person, plus tax and tip, I expect the restaurant to be responsible for monitoring who is drinking. (as per NJ law)
I don't see any relevance to the mom who provided drugs, alcohol and sex to her son to my situation. I'm not sure if that was directed at me, or at everyone, but if it was directed at me, I think you're making quite a stretch with that comparison.
ets: did I do extra monitoring? Sure. But, like I said, I expect that the hall would also be monitoring who they are serving. And, this is required by NJ law...(which is where I had the party)
Message edited 11/15/2005 11:27:19 AM.
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| Posted 11/15/05 11:24 AM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: Serious Question
Posted by suvenR
The reason I had a party at a hall was because I didn't want to have to do all of the work and worry that is involved with a party. That's why I paid the hall to have the party there. And, I paid them even more money to make beer and wine available. For $5 per person, plus tax and tip, I except the restaurant to be responsible for monitoring who is drinking.
I don't see any relevance to the mom who provided drugs, alcohol and sex to her son to my situation. I'm not sure if that was directed at me, or at everyone, but if it was directed at me, I think you're making quite a stretch with that comparison.
ets: did I do extra monitoring? Sure. But, like I said, I expect that the hall would also be monitoring who they are serving. And, this is required by NJ law...(which is where I had the party)
You missed my point. I was saying BECAUSE you DIDN'T have any minors at the party it was not an issue of you being responsible for the actions of your guests.
When you do have minors at a party, the hosts responsibities grow because they ARE responsible for the safety of those minors. When all you are dealing wiht is adults- they adults are responsible for their own actions.
ETA: I was comparing parents who provide alcohol to other people's children to the parent who provided drugs, sex and alcohol to other people's children. Again- not a comparison to your situation since you did not have minors there.
Message edited 11/15/2005 11:30:25 AM.
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| Posted 11/15/05 11:28 AM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Serious Question
Posted by LadyLainez
I never said YOU were forcing your issue. And Here is my point- we shouldn't be judging someone else's actions, because we are not all-knowing, and there are a million different variables-and NO ABSOLUTES.
The whole point behind my original post was that it's not uncommon for high school kids to drink.
I would have to agree w/ you Lauren. We all know it's Illegal and yet it happens all the time. We have all been raised differently and see issues in a different light. I feel that if you decide to let an underage family member be it a daughter/son/neice/nephew or whatever, just be prepared for all the consequences that come along w/ that choice. Like I said, I know a few older couples that let their kids do it. Do I judge them based on it no, I don't agree with it but I can't go to their homes and impose my parenting rules on them.
is it a parenting rule or a LAW?
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| Posted 11/15/05 11:43 AM |
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LadyMaravilla
Fall Is Here
Member since 5/05 12023 total posts
Name:
Sonia
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Re: Serious Question
is it a parenting rule or a LAW?
What is...that you allow your underage son/daughter to drink? It's a choice that some parents make. Is it a legal choice, no. But they make that choice anyway.
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| Posted 11/15/05 11:48 AM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Serious Question
Posted by LadyLainez
is it a parenting rule or a LAW?
What is...that you allow your underage son/daughter to drink? It's a choice that some parents make. Is it a legal choice, no. But they make that choice anyway.
IMO saying "it happens all the time" or allowing your child who is underage to drink IS WRONG
IMO this isn't something that should be considered a CHOICE or a parenting rule that people make for their children
It is ILLEGAL...
Message edited 11/15/2005 11:50:54 AM.
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| Posted 11/15/05 11:50 AM |
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LadyMaravilla
Fall Is Here
Member since 5/05 12023 total posts
Name:
Sonia
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Re: Serious Question
IMO saying "it happens all the time" or allowing your child who is underage to drink IS WRONG
IMO this isn't something that should be considered a CHOICE that people make for their children
It is ILLEGAL...
Yes, it is wrong to me and to you, but obviously not to everyone. We all know it's illegal and it happens anyway.
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| Posted 11/15/05 11:52 AM |
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suvenR
designer mutt
Member since 5/05 4239 total posts
Name:
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Re: Serious Question
Posted by Shellyesq
When all you are dealing wiht is adults- they adults are responsible for their own actions.
In NJ, we are also responsible if we host/serve an adult who leaves our home (or party) intoxicated and then has a car accident.
My big point was that it is not appropriate for a guest to assume that a host is doing nothing about it, just because that guest doesn't see the host doing something.
I had one guest throw up on herself, at the dinner table.  I didn't make a scene. I didn't even approach her table. I walked over to another table and spoke to someone else, to make sure that the vomiting guest didn't get behind the wheel. I'm sure to many other guests, it appeared that I didn't do a thing about the situation.
And, yes, I would be very offended if a guest approached the manager or questioned my actions. I don't think it's appropriate for a guest to take that kind of role, unless asked by a host to do so.
And, another big point is that a restaurant/hall DOES have a legal obligation to monitor who is imbibing and if they are intoxicated and to further prevent that person from getting behind the wheel.
Message edited 11/15/2005 11:57:04 AM.
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| Posted 11/15/05 11:55 AM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: Serious Question
I'm sorry you woudl be offended- but if I saw someone who looked like they could harm themselves or others then I would go to the host to make sure they were aware of it and they were doing something about it. When you invite people to a place you are responsible to make sure that they are going to be safe.
If I were the host- I would be very concerned if someone was getting sick- I would want to make sure they were going to be OK and be safe and I woudl make sure they were- even if I had to take them home and tuck them in myself.
I take back part of what I said- when you deal with adults you are also responible for them, but far more so when its a minor.
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| Posted 11/15/05 11:59 AM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Serious Question
Posted by Shellyesq
When you invite people to a place you are responsible to make sure that they are going to be safe.
since when?
I have never heard of that at all
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| Posted 11/15/05 12:02 PM |
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june262004
But I love the Snow!
Member since 5/05 15379 total posts
Name:
Kristin
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Re: Serious Question
Would I allow it NO but its done with cant say anything now.
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| Posted 11/15/05 12:03 PM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: Serious Question
Posted by Redhead
Posted by Shellyesq
When you invite people to a place you are responsible to make sure that they are going to be safe.
since when?
I have never heard of that at all
Its the law. If someoen dies or gets hurt while your hosting a party, or gets drunk and gets into an accident- the host can be responsible by law. If that person is a minor, the host can go to jail.
ETA: If the accident is alcohol related, the host is almost always held responsible.
Message edited 11/15/2005 12:05:44 PM.
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| Posted 11/15/05 12:04 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Serious Question
Posted by Shellyesq
Posted by Redhead
Posted by Shellyesq
When you invite people to a place you are responsible to make sure that they are going to be safe.
since when?
I have never heard of that at all
Its the law. If someoen dies or gets hurt while your hosting a party, or gets drunk and gets into an accident- the host can be responsible by law. If that person is a minor, the host can go to jail.
so at a wedding the bride and groom are responsible for making sure each person who attended their wedding gets home safe?
I never heard of that
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| Posted 11/15/05 12:05 PM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: Serious Question
Well if they get drunk and get into an accident, they, along with the hall, can be sued. It happens much more than you think.
ETA: I read the law journal every day. These things DO happen.
Message edited 11/15/2005 12:06:52 PM.
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| Posted 11/15/05 12:06 PM |
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Elbee
Zanzibar
Member since 5/05 10767 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Serious Question
Posted by Redhead
Posted by Shellyesq
Posted by Redhead
Posted by Shellyesq
When you invite people to a place you are responsible to make sure that they are going to be safe.
since when?
I have never heard of that at all
Its the law. If someoen dies or gets hurt while your hosting a party, or gets drunk and gets into an accident- the host can be responsible by law. If that person is a minor, the host can go to jail.
so at a wedding the bride and groom are responsible for making sure each person who attended their wedding gets home safe?
I never heard of that
For a minor, if they get intoxicated and get hurt or hurt someone or get caught even the host is responsible - weather it is the homeowner or the establishment where the party is.
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| Posted 11/15/05 12:07 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Serious Question
Posted by Shellyesq
Well if they get drunk and get into an accident, they, along with the hall, can be sued. It happens much more than you think.
WOW never knew that
i guess i consider myself lucky
But i on't think i could begin to understand how someone should figure out how over 250 peopple are ok or not without a breathalizer on hand
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| Posted 11/15/05 12:07 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Serious Question
Posted by Elbee
For a minor, if they get intoxicated and get hurt or hurt someone or get caught even the host is responsible - weather it is the homeowner or the establishment where the party is.
WOW...this is all news to me
SO people should stop b!tching about why the Brides do not want children at their weddings 
joking 
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| Posted 11/15/05 12:08 PM |
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