Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

I'm having an issue with my step-daughter's teacher. She is in the 4th grade. The teacher assigned them the book Charlie and the Chocolate Factory to read. Each night they are supposed to read about 2 chapters and write chapter notes (like a brief summary, 3 key points). Whenever DH and I review them, they are horrid...like she doesn't know how to pick out the main points of the story. So...we will usually make her do them over like 2-3 times before we are satisfied (and we help along the way trying to make her understand). It's painful sometimes...and takes way too long.

Anyway....the last 2 nights neither DH or I reviewed the chapter notes before she turned them in...I saw them this morning, and again...they are horrid. They are really just hap-hazard sentences pulled from the chapter itself...but don't really describe what's going on in the book. The teacher put a "C" across them to show that they are correct...or accepted or whatever.

I'm so mad. She obviouslly is not reading these chapter notes, or she would not say thye are correct. So, how are we supposed to as parents make her to the best work she can....if it doesn't get looked at by the teacher for spelling, grammer, content? Why do we waste our time making her fix them to be good chapter notes...if the teacher doesn't even pay attention to what's being turned in?

Do I say something to the teacher? Do I just let her do crappy work since nobody is looking? How are we to instill good work ethics and values into her, if she is not being held responsible for her work now....she will grow up thinking that this is acceptable? Please tell me your thoughts....thanks.

Message edited 5/19/2006 6:19:34 AM.

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

As a teacher i will take a stab at this! DO Not let your daughter get away with that. Especially if you know she can do better. You are the best advocate for your daughters education.

Now for the teacher. I would talk to her/him. Find out what she is looking for. In her defense I might say she is just using this to see if she read the chapters at all. This time of year she is probably winding down and wants them to start doing more on thier own. Which is where you come in. If you find this unacceptable let the teacher know you expect more from your daughter, and to make sure she is producing more.

Hope it all works out. Oh yeah. Are you sure the C means completed or correct. Maybe its a C on a scale of A-F.

Jennifer

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

Although you posted this for teachers and I am not one, I felt the need to reply. Both of my girls are grown, but when they were in elementary school, I went through the same thing. I don't know the district you are in, and, certainly, not the teacher your child has, but, this sounds all too familiar. There was never a great deal of emphasis put on spelling, grammar, punctuation or sentence structure. If there appeared to have been enough written, the paper was accepted. I was the one who would make them re-do their work if it was not done properly. My oldest would say, "but my teacher will accept it". I told her I would not. I was the one who taught them how to write a proper book report. I showed them the importance of handing in work that was done properly and completely. I was the one who had them re-write their work if it was illegible and had spelling, grammar and punctuation errors. While they hated doing this, when they reached college they understood my reasons. When taking Freshman Composition, they both could write well enough to have the proper amount of pages required. However, almost every paper had corrections for spelling and grammar. I can only imaging how bad it could have been if I had not taken the initiative when they were younger. However, I only had control over what work was done at home. I had absolutely no control over what was done in the classroom, and, when they reached the secondary level, I didn't have any input at all. These issues should have been addressed throughout their entire younger years, but were not. I know teachers will say that I do not understand what happens in the classroom and that they have a great deal of material to cover that is state mandated. However, it does not serve a child well to teach them content if they cannot put together a proper sentence. It, also, does not benefit any child to accept work that is not properly completed. Keep doing what you can for your child. She may resent you for it now, but, she will, certainly, thank you for it later.

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

Thanks for both of your replies. We normally do make her correct the work, but both DH and I are getting tired of doing what we feel should be the teacher's job. For us to teach her how to write properly and such...why are we sending her to school and paying all these taxes if we have to do it ourselves anyway?

Sorry...I'm just frustrated. My sister is a teacher and I don't think all teachers are bad...just not liking this one these days.

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

I can understand your frustration, and I give you many compliments for even looking at your daughters homework because not many parents do anymore.
In the teachers defense, I can say that she is probably having them write the notes just to see if they read the chapters. That does not mean that she should accept unacceptable grammar, but she may not have time to sit and correct the grammar when all she needs to know is if they read it. I'm not saying this is the right thing for her to do, but it's just something that happens, especially at this point in the year when you're trying to fit everything in that needs to get done. You have to prioritize as a teacher, and this may be one of the things that she just can't get to when doing her grading.
That being said..........on the other hand, if this has been an on-going issue with this teacher where she allows your daughter to make these mistakes all the time and get away with it, then I think a phone call is needed PRONTO. But if it hasn't been an issue all year, I would just chock it up to her not having the time right now to sit and correct everything the kids do. It happens. I work with fourth grade enrichment students, supposedly the "creme de la creme" of smart kids, right? Well, when they rush, they don't even capitolize the beginning of their sentences or put proper punctuation! But sometimes, I'm looking for more content than anything else, and if we're short on time, I give them a verbal reminder that they need to check their grammar before handing things in, and we move on.

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

Thanks. Yes...I we have spoke to the teacher numerous times in the past....via emails, parent/teacher conferences, and DH even visited the principle on several occassions. I will also mention that this teacher is absent quite often...at least 2-3x per month. She is preggo....and while I understand the need for doctor's appointments and such...I feel like the kids in the class are the ones suffering.

I just hope that next year things are better with the teacher...but I worry that the 5th grade teachers will just think that she is dumb because she can't write well because it wasn't really a focus in 4th grade. I've got math covered, because like I said my sister is a HS math teacher...so when I feel like she is falling behind in Math, my sister tutor's her.

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

As a former teacher, I can tell you that I worked with teachers who would sometimes give writing assignments and told the students not to worry about grammar and punctuation, in the hopes of getting the creative juices flowing. Then, there were other assignments that were graded more carefully for proper grammar, spelling and punctuation. I would speak with the teacher and find out what the purpose of the assignment is and explain that you are concerned with the poor writing skills you have seen on these assignments.

On the other hand, my mom often had much higher standards than what was expected of me at school. I appreciated it later on in life. Keep doing what you are doing, because your daughter will definitely benefit from your efforts

Message edited 5/19/2006 10:04:09 AM.

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

See, this is another story, then. If you are not satisfied with this teacher, then I would make sure to ask around as to who is good for 5th grade and then request them. It's hard because I know a lot of these teachers are under pressure to "teach to the tests", with all these stupid standardized tests the kids have to take. However, it does not make up for her neglecting something as important as writing. If you are very worried about your daughter's skills in writing, how about getting some of those summer bridge books with writing activities? And if you can afford it, maybe a place like Sylvan just to help her firm up her skills?
I'm sorry her teacher s-cks My SIL is having MAJOR issues with my niece's teacher, too, and nothing has been done. Now my poor niece is freaking out about going into third grade because she feels like she learned nothing this year. And for a second grader to feel that way is awful. Hang in there. Hopefully there'll be some resolution!

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

DH is a highschool English teacher and he still checks their grammar and punctuation. I do admit that sometimes he does do a quick check but that's if like the other ladies said it's an issue of time. But I can vouch for him when he has collected the journals and reads everyone of them thoroughly because he has spend so many hours reading them. He reads all assignments. In a way I feel good about this because I know he'll be great at helping our son with his homework when he's in school. I can just see it now he will read his work and make sure his punctuation is right.

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

Posted by dpli

As a former teacher, I can tell you that I worked with teachers who would sometimes give writing assignments and told the students not to worry about grammar and punctuation, in the hopes of getting the creative juices flowing. Then, there were other assignments that were graded more carefully for proper grammar, spelling and punctuation. I would speak with the teacher and find out what the purpose of the assignment is and explain that you are concerned with the poor writing skills you have seen on these assignments.

On the other hand, my mom often had much higher standards than what was expected of me at school. I appreciated it later on in life. Keep doing what you are doing, because your daughter will definitely benefit from your efforts

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

.

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Message edited 11/5/2006 11:28:47 AM.

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

Posted by luvsun27

Posted by bedda26

DH is a highschool English teacher and he still checks their grammar and punctuation. I do admit that sometimes he does do a quick check but that's if like the other ladies said it's an issue of time. But I can vouch for him when he has collected the journals and reads everyone of them thoroughly because he has spend so many hours reading them. He reads all assignments. In a way I feel good about this because I know he'll be great at helping our son with his homework when he's in school. I can just see it now he will read his work and make sure his punctuation is right.

This is exactly my point! If when my child or any child get to HS, they haven't learned these skills in grammer school because they weren't enforced, how the heck are the HS teachers going to react? Grammer school is where they learn their skills for HS..and if they are not being taught or being held to certain standards, how are they going to survive HS.

Message edited 5/19/2006 1:03:34 PM.

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

Believe me you would not believe some of the grammar and spelling errors that these HS students make. They can't even spell the most simplest words. DH shows me some of the work and he cannot believe the most simple errors they make. Every homework assignment DH checks he will circle in read their punctuation and spelling errors. Sometimes DH says he feels like he's teaching Elementary school because some of these kids still don't know their basic grammar.

The fundamentals should be taught in Elementary school, if they are overlooked then lots of luck for when these kids go to highschool. And I don't think a college professor will even bother with checking punctuation and grammatical errors. They don't put up with that in college. You have to know your stuff by then.

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

I am a middle school english teacher,so I understand what you're saying here. Unfortunately, there simply isn't enough time in the day for me to read everything that I want to! I place different emphasis on different types of assignments. Homework assignments, I generally just check that they do them without looking for grammatical mistakes. Sometimes, I'll collect and grade an assignment, just to keep the students on their toes.
But Ii also like to give the students some freedom to write without having to worry about it being picked over by a teacher. Book summaries are that type of assignment. If the student reads the book and understands what he/she has read, that is good enough for me.
So the teacher may be checking for reading comprehension over proper format. And I personally that's ok to do in school. Not everything has to be perfect! That sometimes causes too much stress!

I do commend you for taking such an interest in her education though! There are too many parents out there that could care less what their child hands in for homework, and that is incredibly frustrating!

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

Message edited 5/19/2006 2:24:39 PM.

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

While I agree that middle school and high school teachers can't correct each and every assignment...you have several classes of at least 25 kids each....we are talking elementary school here....28 kids, that's it.

The problem I have is that in elemtary school..if the teacher doesn't take the time to correct things properly...students will think it's "ok" work...and so that's what they turn in at the middle school and high school level. I would not expect teachers in middle school and high school shoool to teach these types of things to her...I would have expected her to learn them as stepping stones in elementary school.

I agree with Palebride that teachers should grade things occassionally to keep students on their toes...but I feel like all these book reports/writing assignments get treated them same way...they are assigned but not looked over carefully, by the teacher, only the us (the parents). I am the first one to admit I don't have patience for doing homework and checking everything over at night...I find it disgusting that she has the same issues with this over and over again...and I'm not a teacher, so I may not know how to teach her the proper way to do things.

Just so frustrating

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

Posted by luvsun27

While I agree that middle school and high school teachers can't correct each and every assignment...you have several classes of at least 25 kids each....we are talking elementary school here....28 kids, that's it.

The problem I have is that in elemtary school..if the teacher doesn't take the time to correct things properly...students will think it's "ok" work...and so that's what they turn in at the middle school and high school level. I would not expect teachers in middle school and high school shoool to teach these types of things to her...I would have expected her to learn them as stepping stones in elementary school.

I agree with Palebride that teachers should grade things occassionally to keep students on their toes...but I feel like all these book reports/writing assignments get treated them same way...they are assigned but not looked over carefully, by the teacher, only the us (the parents). I am the first one to admit I don't have patience for doing homework and checking everything over at night...I find it disgusting that she has the same issues with this over and over again...and I'm not a teacher, so I may not know how to teach her the proper way to do things.

Just so frustrating

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

Posted by Maathy317

Posted by luvsun27

While I agree that middle school and high school teachers can't correct each and every assignment...you have several classes of at least 25 kids each....we are talking elementary school here....28 kids, that's it.

The problem I have is that in elemtary school..if the teacher doesn't take the time to correct things properly...students will think it's "ok" work...and so that's what they turn in at the middle school and high school level. I would not expect teachers in middle school and high school shoool to teach these types of things to her...I would have expected her to learn them as stepping stones in elementary school.

I agree with Palebride that teachers should grade things occassionally to keep students on their toes...but I feel like all these book reports/writing assignments get treated them same way...they are assigned but not looked over carefully, by the teacher, only the us (the parents). I am the first one to admit I don't have patience for doing homework and checking everything over at night...I find it disgusting that she has the same issues with this over and over again...and I'm not a teacher, so I may not know how to teach her the proper way to do things.

Just so frustrating

I know that 28 children in a class is looked upon as having quite a few. Way, way back when I was in school, we had 60 in a class. We not only learned content and how to properly write a book report, but, we, also, learned sentence structure, spelling, punctuation and grammar. We were able to communicate our thoughts on paper and have others understand what we were saying. Eventually, the children of today will be tomorrow's adults and they will be at a loss. How terribly sad!

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

Hi Kim!!

I would definitely say something to the teacher. Honestly, she should not be assigning something that she can't look at.

Good luck!

Re: Question for the teachers out there...(Long post)

Posted by CkGm

Posted by Maathy317
I know that 28 children in a class is looked upon as having quite a few. Way, way back when I was in school, we had 60 in a class. We not only learned content and how to properly write a book report, but, we, also, learned sentence structure, spelling, punctuation and grammar. We were able to communicate our thoughts on paper and have others understand what we were saying. Eventually, the children of today will be tomorrow's adults and they will be at a loss. How terribly sad!

You also had children who had stable family lives, parents that never excused a child's bad behavior as a result of some designer disorder, and a system that supported the teacher. Oh, those were the days.