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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by BabyAvocado
I mean no offense but I have to ask - for the vegetarians that won't allow meat to be cooked in the same pans and using the same utensils, what is the reasoning behind that? I just think forcing your SO to eat off of a paper plate just because they are eating something you don't like (or chose not to eat) sounds like a bit much.
It's not an issue for us because DH and I decided to become vegetarians together. But, if my daughter ever decides to eat meat, I would prefer that she cook it using other cookware because, honestly, I became a vegetarian because the thought of eating meat really turns my stomach, it really does. If I go to a restaurant and see that the chef cooks my veggies right on top of all the meat juices, it grosses me out. I know it happens, so I prefer just to not see it, but at home, if I knew my pans had animal fat residue on them, it would really gross me out 
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Posted 5/3/06 2:46 PM  |
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heidla
Me and the guys
Member since 5/05 4024 total posts
Name:
Heidi
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by BabyAvocado
Interesting - this was just posted on Parenting.
Soy Milk & Rice Milk
Post on Parenting
Given the fact that Rice Milk & Soy Milk do not provide the all of nutrients babies need to grow, not to mention the fact that there is no mention of DHA which is essential to brain development, IMO, vegans should make damn sure they breastfeed.
The flip side is that cow's are injected with all kind of hormones that transfer to their milk and to the drinker of that milk.
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| Posted 5/3/06 2:50 PM |
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BabyAvocado
Happy New Year
Member since 5/05 17334 total posts
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by Colleen9304
I didn't read the entire Soy & Rice Milk article but does it address enriched Soy milk?
Most people are lactose intolerant and if you're not absorbing enough Vit C, you're not absorbing the D that you need. Humans don't digest animal-based protein as easily as they digest plant-based protein and as a result if their diet is mostly animal-based, they are not getting the nutrients they need.
Yes, but they did not address Soy based formula which I think IS a viable subsitute though I don't know if soy formula can be considered vegan...I doubt it.
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| Posted 5/3/06 2:51 PM |
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BabyAvocado
Happy New Year
Member since 5/05 17334 total posts
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by Bxgell2
It's not an issue for us because DH and I decided to become vegetarians together. But, if my daughter ever decides to eat meat, I would prefer that she cook it using other cookware because, honestly, I became a vegetarian because the thought of eating meat really turns my stomach, it really does. If I go to a restaurant and see that the chef cooks my veggies right on top of all the meat juices, it grosses me out. I know it happens, so I prefer just to not see it, but at home, if I knew my pans had animal fat residue on them, it would really gross me out
I totally understand what Heidla said - about the juices collecting - that I get. You might actually end up ingesting some animal product that you would not otherwise do by choice.
I don't get the gross out factor though. I'm completely grossed out by pickles and pickle juice, and even the smell, but DH loves them. I don't make him eat them on separate plates and if they could be cooked I wouldn't make him cook them in separate pans, KWIM?
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| Posted 5/3/06 2:54 PM |
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heidla
Me and the guys
Member since 5/05 4024 total posts
Name:
Heidi
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by BabyAvocado
Posted by Colleen9304
I didn't read the entire Soy & Rice Milk article but does it address enriched Soy milk?
Most people are lactose intolerant and if you're not absorbing enough Vit C, you're not absorbing the D that you need. Humans don't digest animal-based protein as easily as they digest plant-based protein and as a result if their diet is mostly animal-based, they are not getting the nutrients they need.
Yes, but they did not address Soy based formula which I think IS a viable subsitute though I don't know if soy formula can be considered vegan...I doubt it.
Enriched soy milk is vegan and the Silk brand of soy milk is enriched and organic.
IMO, It is a personal choice how you raise your child. In my experience most vegans know more about food then your regular person. They have to in order to supplement their own diets. I am sure this is something that they don't just jump into without research.
Message edited 5/3/2006 2:59:11 PM.
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| Posted 5/3/06 2:58 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by BabyAvocado
Posted by Bxgell2
It's not an issue for us because DH and I decided to become vegetarians together. But, if my daughter ever decides to eat meat, I would prefer that she cook it using other cookware because, honestly, I became a vegetarian because the thought of eating meat really turns my stomach, it really does. If I go to a restaurant and see that the chef cooks my veggies right on top of all the meat juices, it grosses me out. I know it happens, so I prefer just to not see it, but at home, if I knew my pans had animal fat residue on them, it would really gross me out
I totally understand what Heidla said - about the juices collecting - that I get. You might actually end up ingesting some animal product that you would not otherwise do by choice.
I don't get the gross out factor though. I'm completely grossed out by pickles and pickle juice, and even the smell, but DH loves them. I don't make him eat them on separate plates and if they could be cooked I wouldn't make him cook them in separate pans, KWIM?
Well I was the original paper plates/ separate utensils poster. Manyjuices get "cooked into" pans, and many utensils like woodne spoons or other utensils with wooen handles can absorb meat residues.
It's really not far fetched at all. MANY kosher homes have separate utensils and cookware for meat and dairy.
Also, think about washing dishes together, that resude can also get onto the other plates, etc and end up where you don't want it.
Separate sealed rubbermaid containers has worked for us so far...
And I think if you don't eat meat opening your fridge to see a dead animal in it, is a lot different from opening your fridge and seeng a vegetable or condiment you don't like. So it's a different kind of gross out factor, hence my separate firdge argument, which we may or may not do once we're married. So far it hasn't been an issue since FH does not generally feel the need to cook a roast or anything
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| Posted 5/3/06 3:01 PM |
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heidla
Me and the guys
Member since 5/05 4024 total posts
Name:
Heidi
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by BabyAvocado
Posted by Bxgell2
It's not an issue for us because DH and I decided to become vegetarians together. But, if my daughter ever decides to eat meat, I would prefer that she cook it using other cookware because, honestly, I became a vegetarian because the thought of eating meat really turns my stomach, it really does. If I go to a restaurant and see that the chef cooks my veggies right on top of all the meat juices, it grosses me out. I know it happens, so I prefer just to not see it, but at home, if I knew my pans had animal fat residue on them, it would really gross me out
I totally understand what Heidla said - about the juices collecting - that I get. You might actually end up ingesting some animal product that you would not otherwise do by choice.
I don't get the gross out factor though. I'm completely grossed out by pickles and pickle juice, and even the smell, but DH loves them. I don't make him eat them on separate plates and if they could be cooked I wouldn't make him cook them in separate pans, KWIM?
I understand what you are saying, but I think the difference is that becoming vegetarian is more then not liking meat, it is a lifestyle choice. Now, I am not one of those vegetarians (going on 17 yrs.) that trys to conform others. I do however want others to respect my choice as I do theirs. If that means that my DH has to pick up the steak package because it has blood oozing out of it and has to cook it in his personal calphlon pan I don't see the problem. It is him respecting my beliefs.
Edited for a crazy run on sentence.
Message edited 5/3/2006 3:05:59 PM.
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| Posted 5/3/06 3:04 PM |
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BabyAvocado
Happy New Year
Member since 5/05 17334 total posts
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by heidla
Enriched soy milk is vegan and the Silk brand of soy milk is enriched and organic.
IMO, It is a personal choice how you raise your child. In my experience most vegans know more about food then your regular person. They have to in order to supplement their own diets. I am sure this is something that they don't just jump into without research.
Enriched still doesn't mean it has everything a baby needs. I believe DHA & ARA are fatty acids that are found in breastmilk. In order to synthesize the ones that are found in formula (which I found out are in soy formula - I'm talking baby formula now, not soy/rice milk off the shelves) they may use animal proteins which would make it not vegan. There is no completely vegan baby formula. I don't know, that kinda tells you something.
I agree that vegans do know alot more about what's in food than most people and I'm sure alot do alot of research before jumping in. I guess what I'm saying is it would be irresponsible if they didn't.
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| Posted 5/3/06 3:07 PM |
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~Colleen~
my loves...
Member since 5/05 9129 total posts
Name:
guess
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by BabyAvocado
I don't get the gross out factor though.
That's probably why you're NOT a vegetarian 
People become veg for various reasons - health, moral issues, etc. For those that became veg b/c of moral issues, comparing cow or pig meat to a pickle is apples & oranges.
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| Posted 5/3/06 3:08 PM |
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BabyAvocado
Happy New Year
Member since 5/05 17334 total posts
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by marymoon
Well I was the original paper plates/ separate utensils poster. Manyjuices get "cooked into" pans, and many utensils like woodne spoons or other utensils with wooen handles can absorb meat residues.
It's really not far fetched at all. MANY kosher homes have separate utensils and cookware for meat and dairy.
Also, think about washing dishes together, that resude can also get onto the other plates, etc and end up where you don't want it.
Separate sealed rubbermaid containers has worked for us so far...
And I think if you don't eat meat opening your fridge to see a dead animal in it, is a lot different from opening your fridge and seeng a vegetable or condiment you don't like. So it's a different kind of gross out factor, hence my separate firdge argument, which we may or may not do once we're married. So far it hasn't been an issue since FH does not generally feel the need to cook a roast or anything
The fridge I totally understand. Alot of people give up meat because of the way animals are slaughtered...why would you then want to open your fridge to find parts of a slaughtered animal in it! Totally get that.
Still haven't convinced on the paper plate thing though, Jenn.
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| Posted 5/3/06 3:11 PM |
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BabyAvocado
Happy New Year
Member since 5/05 17334 total posts
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by Colleen9304
Posted by BabyAvocado
I don't get the gross out factor though.
That's probably why you're NOT a vegetarian
People become veg for various reasons - health, moral issues, etc. For those that became veg b/c of moral issues, comparing cow or pig meat to a pickle is apples & oranges.
Yeah, I guess I'm not morally grossed out by pickles. It is a different type of gross out in that sense.
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| Posted 5/3/06 3:13 PM |
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heidla
Me and the guys
Member since 5/05 4024 total posts
Name:
Heidi
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by BabyAvocado
Posted by heidla
Enriched soy milk is vegan and the Silk brand of soy milk is enriched and organic.
IMO, It is a personal choice how you raise your child. In my experience most vegans know more about food then your regular person. They have to in order to supplement their own diets. I am sure this is something that they don't just jump into without research.
Enriched still doesn't mean it has everything a baby needs. I believe DHA & ARA are fatty acids that are found in breastmilk. In order to synthesize the ones that are found in formula (which I found out are in soy formula - I'm talking baby formula now, not soy/rice milk off the shelves) they may use animal proteins which would make it not vegan. There is no completely vegan baby formula. I don't know, that kinda tells you something.
I agree that vegans do know alot more about what's in food than most people and I'm sure alot do alot of research before jumping in. I guess what I'm saying is it would be irresponsible if they didn't.
Most vegans I know do breastfeed. The most common vegan stance on drinking animal milk is that the animals produce it for their young not for us, just like we do.
I am not vegan so I don't know if there is a completely vegan formula on the market, but now I am curious.
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| Posted 5/3/06 3:14 PM |
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~Colleen~
my loves...
Member since 5/05 9129 total posts
Name:
guess
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by heidla
I am not vegan so I don't know if there is a completely vegan formula on the market, but now I am curious.
There isn't.
Does anyone find it weird that we're the only species that drinks milk after infancy/childhood...AND to boot, we're the only species that drinks another species' milk?!?? 
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| Posted 5/3/06 3:16 PM |
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BabyAvocado
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by Colleen9304
There isn't.
Does anyone find it weird that we're the only species that drinks milk after infancy/childhood...AND to boot, we're the only species that drinks another species' milk?!??
\
That's what I found also - no vegan formula. Like I said, I think that tells us something. Babies do need some form of animal product to be healthy. (Breastmilk included)
When my cousin gave up dairy for a temporary health issue she explained it to me this way and I was like wow, you're right. It is pretty odd.
But think off all the good things we'd be missing without dairy - ice cream, whipped cream, cheeses (forget pizza!), hmmm...hey...we'd probably be a lot thinner without dairy too.
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| Posted 5/3/06 3:20 PM |
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heidla
Me and the guys
Member since 5/05 4024 total posts
Name:
Heidi
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by Colleen9304
Posted by heidla
I am not vegan so I don't know if there is a completely vegan formula on the market, but now I am curious.
There isn't.
Does anyone find it weird that we're the only species that drinks milk after infancy/childhood...AND to boot, we're the only species that drinks another species' milk?!??
I found one, but you can't get it in the US.
Yeah, the milk industry has done quite a number on us. AHHHH big business.
I have always found milk disgusting unless it had chocolate in it.
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| Posted 5/3/06 3:20 PM |
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baghag
:P
Member since 5/05 10278 total posts
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by Colleen9304
Does anyone find it weird that we're the only species that drinks milk after infancy/childhood...AND to boot, we're the only species that drinks another species' milk?!??
Actually- yes! I don't drink milk b/c i don't like the taste, and I am some what lactose intolerant. I have always wondered whose idea it was for people to drink animal milk. And how it got so popular. I'm not against it, nor do I look down on people for doing it, I just wondered.
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| Posted 5/3/06 3:22 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
A few things - technically, I'm not vegan because I eat fish, though I don't eat meat and I avoid dairy as much as possible. But, I would never raise my child vegan. I think that's trampling on dangerous territory and I don't think it's fair of me to impose my moral views on my daughter to the point where it may endanger her health. And, yes, I did breastfeed my daughter! 
Second, I think a vegetarian's dislike of meat is a little different in comparison to a person's food preferences. I don't eat meat because ethically, I'm not comfortable with eating the flesh of another living mammal that experiences pain and fear right before and during the slaughter, and honestly, meat, even when I hesitatingly ate it, always grossed me out. So, when I see a chunk of meat, it evinces a whole bunch of emotions - first and foremost, the gag reflux, but on top of that, all of the moral and ethical emotions reasons that go with it as well. I don't think someone who is averse to pickles has all that other baggage to deal with as well when he/she smells or sees a pickle, KWIM?
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| Posted 5/3/06 3:25 PM |
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~Colleen~
my loves...
Member since 5/05 9129 total posts
Name:
guess
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by BabyAvocado
That's what I found also - no vegan formula. Like I said, I think that tells us something. Babies do need some form of animal product to be healthy. (Breastmilk included)
I'm not sure if it tells us anything scientific...it's only been in the past 10 years that there has been any frozen vegetarian meals in the supermarket - and I've seen that shelf grow to 2 fridge's in only the past 5 years. I won't argue that vegan's need supplements that vegetarian's don't but I don't think this is all so black & white either.
The thing with the meat industry is that it is in bed with the dairy industry and so on and so forth. Flip over that food pyramid card and check out who produces it In actuality, we don't need to consume the suggested amounts if we ate a more plant-based diet.
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| Posted 5/3/06 3:25 PM |
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TheLorax
LOVE
Member since 2/06 5581 total posts
Name:
Suzanne / SuzBride
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
I am vegetarian, and FH is not - he respects my beliefs, and I respect his decision to keep eating meat. He did give up veal for me though. If one day he gave up meat, that would be wonderful, but it would be his decision, not mine.
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| Posted 5/3/06 3:25 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by Colleen9304
Posted by heidla
I am not vegan so I don't know if there is a completely vegan formula on the market, but now I am curious.
There isn't.
Does anyone find it weird that we're the only species that drinks milk after infancy/childhood...AND to boot, we're the only species that drinks another species' milk?!??
LOL... that's one of the main reasons why DH and I avoid it at all costs. Not to mention, I'm lactose intolerant
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| Posted 5/3/06 3:26 PM |
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~Colleen~
my loves...
Member since 5/05 9129 total posts
Name:
guess
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
I don't drink milk - b/c I think it smells and tastes gross and b/c I don't digest it - however I do eat cheese. It is the sole reason why I didn't become vegan years ago. 
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| Posted 5/3/06 3:29 PM |
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BabyAvocado
Happy New Year
Member since 5/05 17334 total posts
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by Colleen9304
I'm not sure if it tells us anything scientific...it's only been in the past 10 years that there has been any frozen vegetarian meals in the supermarket - and I've seen that shelf grow to 2 fridge's in only the past 5 years. I won't argue that vegan's need supplements that vegetarian's don't but I don't think this is all so black & white either.
The thing with the meat industry is that it is in bed with the dairy industry and so on and so forth. Flip over that food pyramid card and check out who produces it In actuality, we don't need to consume the suggested amounts if we ate a more plant-based diet.
Oh I agree there too...but like I said, breastmilk included. And if they could make a [human] milk-based formula I think that would be great and would be better than all the soy and cow's milk based formulas. I'm only concerned about babies that are being raised vegan. Once the children are old enough that being a vegan isn't going affect their health & development negatively, then I guess it's fine if parents want to make them adhere to their beliefs.
ETA: Let me stop hi-jacking now!
Message edited 5/3/2006 3:34:22 PM.
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| Posted 5/3/06 3:33 PM |
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heidla
Me and the guys
Member since 5/05 4024 total posts
Name:
Heidi
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by Colleen9304
I do eat cheese. It is the sole reason why I didn't become vegan years ago.
Darn those wonderful, fabulous and delicious cheeses. That is the reason I can't go vegan as well.
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| Posted 5/3/06 3:52 PM |
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Tanaholic
My Big Boy!
Member since 10/05 2383 total posts
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Posted by Kathy116
I'm a vegetarian and my husband eats meat...I don't have a problem with his eating habits, and he doesn't mind mine as well.
same here! My Dh loves meat and I don't think it would be right to tell him not to eat in front of me or keep it in the house.
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| Posted 5/3/06 3:56 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: spinoff to vegetarians and carnivores
Babies are meant to drink milk. I don't think a baby who does not have breastmilk could be healthy on a vegan diet.
Many soy milk containers have a warning that says "not to be used as an infant formula." I think a major part of it has to do with fat content.
I think it's strange and completely gross that we eat other animals' milk. If you think about it, it's completely disgusting. Like I've seen in movies people accidentally drinking breast milk and freaking out, but if you think about it, at least that's from another human, not a cow or a goat.
I still haven't completely given up dairy though, so go fig.
About the food pyramid, and the new low carb fads. Most people get TOO MUCH protein and not enough veggies. My mom and I are the vegetarians in the family and I'd say we're actually the healthiest people in the family. My mom even used to be anemic, so it going vegetarian was a concern, but she has been absolutely fine without even taking an iron supplement. My uncle always tells us to go eat a steak, but neither of us have any dietary/nutritional problems.
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| Posted 5/4/06 3:25 AM |
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