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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
Posted by Pumpkin1
I understand that everyone makes a sacrifice. I personally feel that many SAHMs are very judgmental and condescending to working moms and which, in turn, makes working moms feel like they are neglecting or abusing their children, guilty and inadequate.
SAHM are always whining that their work is not recognized, but many working moms are doing all of that and working full time as well. I'm tired of hearing "I couldn't clean the house, I have a full time job taking care of my child," but they can tell you exactly what happened on Oprah yesterday.
I am sorry, I realize that my statements here are far more offensive than anything else posted here, but it is something that I've needed to get off my chest for a while.
And I think you're making a huge generalization. The fact is *people* are judgmental and condescending, not just SAHM's or Working Moms. And, anytime it happens, from either side, it's wrong, just as it's wrong that you've demonstrated some harsh and unfounded criticism of SAHM's. I know for myself that part of the reason why I enjoy working is that I find that staying at home with what I think is a collicky baby is much more challenging. And, no, I really don't think that you can say that as a working mom you're doing everything a SAHM does plus more by working, because you're not at home all day tending to a child or baby. And, what, are we supposed to say that a SAHM doesn't deserve a little "off" time just because she's at home? Are you going to tell me that you don't take a lunch break here and there? A coffee break? Why doesn't a SAHM deserve the same "break", whether it's to watch a little TV, take a shower, or whatever, that working mom's deserve during the day?
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Posted 2/23/06 1:57 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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BabyAvocado
Happy New Year
Member since 5/05 17334 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
It's just as easy to be judgemental and condescending to a SAHM as it is to be that way to a working mom. As a matter of fact, you just did it.
I understand where you are coming from pumpkin, but it's like we've been saying... everyone makes sacrifices.
On a side note:
Barb - I'll hold her down so you can get your licks in! 
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| Posted 2/23/06 2:00 PM |
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JennChris
life moves fast
Member since 5/05 4225 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
Posted by Pumpkin1
I understand that everyone makes a sacrifice. I personally feel that many SAHMs are very judgmental and condescending to working moms and which, in turn, makes working moms feel like they are neglecting or abusing their children, guilty and inadequate.
SAHM are always saying that their work is not recognized, but many working moms are doing all of that and working full time as well. I'm tired of hearing "I couldn't clean the house, I have a full time job taking care of my child," but they can tell you exactly what happened on Oprah yesterday.
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Now that I found offensive!! you SAY that we, SAHMs make working moms feel inadequate, but it's OK for you to say that you think we have it easy! My kids are at home with me alll day long which in turn makes a dirtier house, more laundry, and more dishes, it is hard to keep up with.... we are also the ones that have to teach our kids everything, not a caregiver... it's a full time job....but at the same time working moms get to have adult interaction and if they want to go to the bathroom by themselves they get too If watching Oprah or talking on LIF is our only outlet to the outside world and to adult conversation, don't knock it!
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| Posted 2/23/06 2:14 PM |
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WhatNow
Say Cheese!
Member since 1/06 8033 total posts
Name:
A (formerly WhatNow?)
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
Posted by Pumpkin1
I understand that everyone makes a sacrifice. I personally feel that many SAHMs are very judgmental and condescending to working moms and which, in turn, makes working moms feel like they are neglecting or abusing their children, guilty and inadequate.
SAHM are always saying that their work is not recognized, but many working moms are doing all of that and working full time as well. I'm tired of hearing "I couldn't clean the house, I have a full time job taking care of my child," but they can tell you exactly what happened on Oprah yesterday.
I am sorry, I realize that my statements here are far more offensive than anything else posted here, but it is something that I've needed to get off my chest for a while.
Edited to say: This was harsh, and I apologize. But, I only changed one word because, unfortunately, this is how I feel for the most part.
Pumpkin, I definitely see what you are saying. I am a working mom, not by choice though... and I can absolutely relate to most of the things you said. Of course, it is a very tough job to be a SAHM, BUT it's waaaay tougher to be a working mother. I can say that because I have experienced it both ways.
Don't get me wrong, when I am home with the baby all day I am absolutely dead tired when my DH gets home. However, when I work all day and than come home, I still have to do all the things that I would have been doing if I was home with my son all day: cooking, cleaning, making baby food, etc. etc. etc. Except, i get to do them AFTEr coming home for work and after spending time with the baby, feeding and washing him and getting him to bed.
So, basically a working mother has 2 full time jobs, PLUS incredible guilt and sadness over not being able to be with her baby all day... It is much tougher!
I say this not to make SAHM feel bad but to make them feel incredibly LUCKY! SAH moms, we are very jealous of you and your life ( in the best way possible ) I only wish I could stay a SAHM, but i know it will not work. Nobody ever said being a SAHM is a peace of cake, H**LL NO!!! It is very hard work but it's still easier physicilly and especially emotionally than being a working mother!!!
Message edited 2/23/2006 2:49:25 PM.
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| Posted 2/23/06 2:31 PM |
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JennChris
life moves fast
Member since 5/05 4225 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
say thing not to make SAHM feel bad but to make them feel incredibly LUCKY! SAH moms, we are very jealous of you and your life ( in the best way possible) I only wish I could stay a SAHM, but i know it will not work. Nobody ever said being a SAHM is a peace of cake, H**LL NO!!! It is very hard work but it's still easier physicilly and especially emotionally than being a working mother!!!
I think that's the whole point here... we each see it differently... nobody is right here... we all do what we need to do for our family.
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| Posted 2/23/06 2:41 PM |
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maybebaby
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 6870 total posts
Name:
Maureen
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
I wanted to add a comment if i may...i am not a mom yet, i am a "mom to be" and don't know yet what i'm going to do. I would LOVE to stay home with my child...but finacially it may not be feasible for us.
However...I did want to add...my mother was a SAHM of 6 children. Well 4 children were under the age of 7 at one time, the other two older but not my much. She didn't rest for a minute and devoted every second of her day to housework, homework, dinner etc..you name it! Her break came at 9pm when she could sit down with a cup of coffee and attempt to watch the oprah session she had taped during the day.
My point is...i do not think either party has it easy and i'm sure you all know that. When and if i have to continue working it will break my heart to leave my baby. I know it will. But should i stay home, i know the day isn't any easier. Its a "different" kind of day..both equally demanding, both tiring and both rewarding in the end. In my opinion.
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| Posted 2/23/06 2:44 PM |
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WhatNow
Say Cheese!
Member since 1/06 8033 total posts
Name:
A (formerly WhatNow?)
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
..both equally demanding, both tiring and both rewarding in the end. In my opinion.
I seriously doubt they are both EQUALY rewarding the only rewarding thing about my job is being able to pay the bills
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| Posted 2/23/06 2:55 PM |
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CunningOne
***
Member since 5/05 26975 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
Posted by Bxgell2
What would be inspirational is for women to recognize that and give each other the mutual respect and support we deserve for making that individual choice and that individual sacrifice, no matter what side of the fence it lies on.
Very nicely put!
Posted by nrthshgrl
Remember I'm the mom that will bring them to daycare on my day off so I can get things done for ME (and this includes taking pictures of OTHER PEOPLE'S CHILDREN). It's because it's something I can enjoy -the ONLY thing I do for myself. If we all didn't have "me" time (just like SAHMs who watch Oprah), than all of our children would be worse off for having the overworked, tired SAHM mom or Working Mom who needs a break.
And I can't begin to tell you how much that is appreciated by others!
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| Posted 2/23/06 2:59 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
Posted by chmlengr
Posted by nrthshgrl
Remember I'm the mom that will bring them to daycare on my day off so I can get things done for ME (and this includes taking pictures of OTHER PEOPLE'S CHILDREN). It's because it's something I can enjoy -the ONLY thing I do for myself. If we all didn't have "me" time (just like SAHMs who watch Oprah), than all of our children would be worse off for having the overworked, tired SAHM mom or Working Mom who needs a break.
And I can't begin to tell you how much that is appreciated by others!
Flattery will get you everywhere...
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| Posted 2/23/06 3:06 PM |
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maybebaby
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 6870 total posts
Name:
Maureen
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
Posted by WhatNow
..both equally demanding, both tiring and both rewarding in the end. In my opinion.
I seriously doubt they are both EQUALY rewarding the only rewarding thing about my job is being able to pay the bills
Well..rewarding if you are passionate about the job you do and love it. I do know women who HAD the choice to stay at home but worked because they couldn't bear to leave their job. In that aspect i would find it rewarding.
for me?? No way. The thought of going back to catering and serving the public every day scares the holy heck out of me. I wish i could know that i had the choice to stay home :(
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| Posted 2/23/06 3:12 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
Posted by maybebaby
Posted by WhatNow
..both equally demanding, both tiring and both rewarding in the end. In my opinion.
I seriously doubt they are both EQUALY rewarding the only rewarding thing about my job is being able to pay the bills
Well..rewarding if you are passionate about the job you do and love it. I do know women who HAD the choice to stay at home but worked because they couldn't bear to leave their job. In that aspect i would find it rewarding.
for me?? No way. The thought of going back to catering and serving the public every day scares the holy heck out of me. I wish i could know that i had the choice to stay home :(
That's me - we could certainly afford for me to be a SAHM, but I truly love my job, and I've worked so hard to get to this point in my career (though I'm fairly close to losing it at this point, and I'm sure posting on LIF everyday isn't helping! ). But, at the same time, I feel immense, immense, guilt and depression over the fact that I leave my daughter at daycare everyday. So, I can totally understand why a working mom would feel as though she's judged and being criticized, but I think it has more to do with those inner feelings of guilt. And, that's simply a hang-up that most working mom's have and must deal with. I really don't think most SAHM's "judge" working moms. I think the root of all this defensiveness is that we judge ourselves. I know, at least, for myself, I do...
Message edited 2/23/2006 3:18:28 PM.
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| Posted 2/23/06 3:17 PM |
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JennChris
life moves fast
Member since 5/05 4225 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
I feel immense, immense, guilt and depression over the fact that I leave my daughter at daycare everyday.
I can't speak for other SAHM, but I think that I feel guilt sometimes because I don't bring an income into our family, and sometimes it's a struggle... I think you have a very very good point about judging ourselves
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| Posted 2/23/06 3:21 PM |
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mommy2Alex
3 babies for me :)
Member since 5/05 6683 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
I was not trying to knock working moms or SAHMs. I think everyone needs to make the choice for themselves and I recognize the fact that not everyone truly has the choice to SAH because of economic reasons. I have friends who do both and don't look at them differently based on their choices.
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| Posted 2/23/06 3:25 PM |
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Melbernai
I am a lucky Momma!
Member since 7/05 15652 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
I am a working mother, and while I would love to be a SAHM I don't have the option at this point in my life. My family needs both of our incomes, and we need my job most of all because I have the better health insurance and benefits and my family just couldn't gt by without them.
Don't get me wrong -- my job does have it's benefits and it's rewards. I teach special ed 1st grade and have been with these students for 2 years -- so I have a personal interest in the wellbeing and education of many of them. There are also days when getting out of the house is a good thing -- we all need a mommy break sometimes and even though mine includes working, it also means I get to see my coworkers and just get out of the house a little.
However, ultimately, if I had a choice, I would certainly chose to be a SAHM. I wouldn't see it as putting my education to waste, because I'd be using it to help raise a wonderful daughter, and someone who is going to grow up to be part of society. There is a lot of critisism about how adolesents are growing up to be, and so if I had the opportunity to be with my future teenager every day during her childhood, to make her a better adult later, I'd jump on the chance. But for now it's just not an option and I have to do the best I can when I am home with her.
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| Posted 2/23/06 4:01 PM |
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michele31
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 3372 total posts
Name:
Michele
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
Education is never wasted..on anyone...no matter if they are a prisioner, a SAHM, or the President ..well okay education was wasted on him ...but my point is that women fought really, really hard so that I would not be told that I had NO choice...my own grandmother was forced to quit her job at 5 months pregnant because clients were not allowed to see her pregnant and when her boss was in total chaos he begged her to come back but she was never allow to stand if a client was in the office. Once she was 8 months pregnant and trained a new person she was NOT ALLOWED to work. And when my grandfather was deployed oversees in the Airforce she had 3 small children and had no choice but to have a job in retail at nights..she could barely make ends meet but most of the executives she knew who needed assistants would not hire a women with children. So I admire and appreciate ALL that those women fought for...I have a right to make a good salary and to not be forced out of my job.
Now on the other side I think SAHMs have hard jobs. Yes, I have a full-time outside the home job and the full-time inside the home job too...but I don't think either one of us has it easier, except on days when Molly is sick and can't go to daycare...then I know being a SAHM is easier for that situation.  No boss to deal with or sick day to take.
I am a women and proud of it. I am proud of my SAHM friends, and my working friends. I refuse to allow anyone to judge me or judge anyone else because of their paycheck status.
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| Posted 2/23/06 4:02 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
Posted by mommy2Alex
I was not trying to knock working moms or SAHMs. I think everyone needs to make the choice for themselves and I recognize the fact that not everyone truly has the choice to SAH because of economic reasons. I have friends who do both and don't look at them differently based on their choices.
On the flip side (since not every working mom wants to stay home), I know a lot of SAHMs that would love a career but wouldn't make enough to cover their daycare costs.
In the end, I think we're all agreeing that we wish we could clone ourselves and have it all.
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| Posted 2/23/06 4:19 PM |
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Kierasmom
I love my kids
Member since 5/05 2885 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
I am a working mom and although it crushes me that I can't be with my daughter, DH and I decided that in order to give my daughter, and any other future kids we may have, the best life, right now we need the dual income. That's what works for us. We both wish that one of us made enough money so that the other could stay home. But we don't. Yes we could cut back on a lot of things, and maybe we could have bought a smaller home and then maybe one of us could stay home and take a part time job. But we don't feel that's what's best for our family. That's what we chose. I'm not saying it's what everyone should do, but it's what we need to do.
It's an individual choice, or I should say a family choice. Even the people who can afford to stay home, they are still making a sacrafice financially and also emotionally. But for them that's what works best. I hate that society looks at both situations in a negative manner. Families have to do what's best for them. And nobody should try to say who works harder or who's giving their child the better upbringing. BOTH are very difficult to do. That's what being a parent is all about. As a SAHM or a working mom, no matter which choice you make it's difficult and it's a sacrifice.
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| Posted 2/23/06 6:55 PM |
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Stacey1403
Where it all began....
Member since 5/05 24065 total posts
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
my daughter rolled for the first time in daycare And, as a SAHM, I would imagine that the sacrifice is that you don't have the opportunity to pursue your own, individual career. What it comes down to is that we are all in the same boat - no matter what our decision, we all are making a sacrifice. What would be inspirational is for women to recognize that and give each other the mutual respect and support we deserve for making that individual choice and that individual sacrifice, no matter what side of the fence it lies on.
As a day care director you should talk to the director of your day care. If I ever heard one of my staff telling a parent they witnessed a baby's "first" before they did I would flip out. You have enough guilt about leaving them all day, you should be the one to enjoy all her firsts
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| Posted 2/23/06 7:35 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
Posted by Stacey1403
my daughter rolled for the first time in daycare And, as a SAHM, I would imagine that the sacrifice is that you don't have the opportunity to pursue your own, individual career. What it comes down to is that we are all in the same boat - no matter what our decision, we all are making a sacrifice. What would be inspirational is for women to recognize that and give each other the mutual respect and support we deserve for making that individual choice and that individual sacrifice, no matter what side of the fence it lies on.
As a day care director you should talk to the director of your day care. If I ever heard one of my staff telling a parent they witnessed a baby's "first" before they did I would flip out. You have enough guilt about leaving them all day, you should be the one to enjoy all her firsts
No, they were really sweet about it... they were yapping away when I was picking her up about how active she is, and loves to roll back and forth. I looked at them and said, what? She rolled? The director turned red and said, you didn't know? I wouldn't have ever told you! So, they did mean well and I'm sure there are so many other things she does that they know about before we do...
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| Posted 2/23/06 7:43 PM |
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anon
where's winter?
Member since 11/05 2209 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
Message edited 2/8/2007 11:16:36 AM.
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| Posted 2/23/06 8:09 PM |
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dandr10199
Grace is growing up too fast!
Member since 10/05 11561 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
Posted by anon
personally, the real problem I see is that the work force really is not supportive of the working mother.
I completely agree with you on this. It is really sad to me the way our country treats mothers in general. I have read that Italy and Canada have great leave policies and pay you a full salary close to a year after you give birth. I feel that "motherhood" is more respected in other countries. 
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| Posted 2/23/06 8:25 PM |
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CaseyGirl
Mommy to 3 Boys :)
Member since 5/05 19978 total posts
Name:
Jen - counting my blessings...
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
That lady is a nut. I agree with what someone before said, I always half joke that the feminists of the 60s and 70s f*ed it up for the rest of us because now, the way the economy is and the expectations society has of us, staying home is no longer expected but it is unexpected and "tragic"  gimme a break lady and get a life!
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| Posted 2/23/06 9:30 PM |
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mable
2 1/2
Member since 12/05 1304 total posts
Name:
kristen
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
Posted by Pumpkin1
Posted by Stefanie
I have my masters in literacy...yeah it's such a tragedy that I'm staying home for the most important times of my child's life...
Morons.
I don't understand this statement. Are you saying that working moms are missing "the most important times" of their childrens' lives? How about working moms are generating incomes that can be used to send their children to college so they are not burdened with student loans afterwards? How about some women have no choice but to work in order to put a roof over their heads or feed them.
As a working mom, I find many of these posts offensive and are exactly the reason people roll their eyes when SAHMs start to speak.
I am due on Tuesday and I have been home for a month but I know for a fact I have no choice but to go back to work.. SO I agree.. congrats to those who are able to stay home but as of right now I am not as lucky..
I guess it is nice to be a sahm or a working mom.. but you can't say we are missing the most important times of their lives.. Its actually hurtfull..
Message edited 2/23/2006 10:24:02 PM.
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| Posted 2/23/06 10:23 PM |
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WhatNow
Say Cheese!
Member since 1/06 8033 total posts
Name:
A (formerly WhatNow?)
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
Posted by MrsTC
I agree with what someone before said, I always half joke that the feminists of the 60s and 70s f*ed it up for the rest of us
Pumpkin did mentioned feminism in her post.
The problem with that movement was that even though feminists allowed women to enter the workforce and go all the way to the top in whatever field they chose, they forgot to take into consideration that the life (i.e. the need to procreate) still goes on and the only people who make that happen are still women: we have to get pregnant, have babies and are, in majority of cases, are the main care provider. So, now here we are, all free and independent and career oriented, and our families are suffering because of it...
For feminist movement to really have been successful they should have taken into consideration and fought for what happens AFTER women enter workforce! Where are the great, affordable, on-site day care centers they have everywhere in Europe, where is the great maternity leave policy that most European and Canadian mothers enjoy, where are the family-oriented, mother-friendly office policies with readily available part-time and work-from-home opportunities? That's what they should have been fighting for....
...Instead they shoved us in offices, may be even lucrative corner offices in many cases, but left everything else unattended. Now our children are in super expensive carecenters, we only get to see them an hour a day while other people are raising them, and we sit in the office and wonder if announcing our pregnancy to the boss will hurt our chances for a promotion... So, may be F*ed up is not such a bad term to use... The position we were all put in can certainly be described as such!
Message edited 2/23/2006 11:38:27 PM.
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| Posted 2/23/06 11:05 PM |
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mable
2 1/2
Member since 12/05 1304 total posts
Name:
kristen
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Re: Article - SAHM's "A Tragedy"
Posted by WhatNow
Posted by MrsTC
I agree with what someone before said, I always half joke that the feminists of the 60s and 70s f*ed it up for the rest of us
Pumpkin did mentioned feminism in her post.
The problem with that movement was that even though feminists allowed women to enter the workforce and go all the way to the top in whatever field they chose, they forgot to take into consideration that the life (i.e. the need to procreate) still goes on and the only people who make that happen are still women: we have to get pregnant, have babies and are, in majority of cases, are the main care provider. So, now here we are, all free and independent and career oriented, and our families are suffering because of it...
For feminist movement to really have been successful they should have taken into consideration and fought for what happens AFTER women enter workforce! Where are the great, affordable, on-site day care centers they have everywhere in Europe, where is the great maternity leave policy that most European and Canadian mothers enjoy, where are the family-oriented, mother-friendly office policies with readily available part-time and work-from-home opportunities? What's what they should have been fighting for....
...Instead they shoved us in offices, may be even lucrative corner offices in many cases, but left everything else unattended. Now our children are in super expensive carecenters, we only get to see them an hour a day while other people are raising them, and we sit in the office and wonder if announcing our pregnancy to the boss will hurt our chances for a promotion... So, may be F*ed up is not such a bad term to use... The position we were all put in can certainly be described as such!
Very true!!!!
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| Posted 2/23/06 11:23 PM |
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