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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by shamrock124
I posted this same example a week or two back.
The only fault I find with it is that it doesn't account for the effect that AMT has on taxes.
that's not my bag, baby. 
Mr. Ophelia would have to talk to you about that  
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Posted 10/27/08 4:38 PM  |
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twiceasnice
LIF Adult
Member since 2/08 1126 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by twiceasnice
Maybe you could just give it to her to be, how Obama says "Neighborly" 
right!...such a laughable and disgusting concept.
Well its only 12 bucks!
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| Posted 10/27/08 4:40 PM |
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Luv2bAmom
LIF Adult
Member since 2/08 1255 total posts
Name:
J
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by twiceasnice
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by twiceasnice
Maybe you could just give it to her to be, how Obama says "Neighborly"
right!...such a laughable and disgusting concept.
Well its only 12 bucks!
Yes because helping each other is so unthinkable..... its funny
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| Posted 10/27/08 4:41 PM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14021 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by shamrock124
I posted this same example a week or two back.
The only fault I find with it is that it doesn't account for the effect that AMT has on taxes.
that's not my bag, baby.
Mr. Ophelia would have to talk to you about that
I was thinking out loud - not really expecting anyone to calculate federal income tax.
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| Posted 10/27/08 4:44 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
I was thinking out loud - not really expecting anyone to calculate federal income tax.
oh oops. ok.
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| Posted 10/27/08 4:50 PM |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
Name:
BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by MrsR
I understand why Luv2bamom said what she said - that is why I cleared it up.
My husband is a small business owner so this is not just about personal income tax for me. I am sorry if I was not specific but I don't want to go into too much on a public board. I hope you understand.
I completely understand my DH is a small business owner too; I must have missed your post replying.
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| Posted 10/27/08 4:51 PM |
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twiceasnice
LIF Adult
Member since 2/08 1126 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by Luv2bAmom
Posted by twiceasnice
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by twiceasnice
Maybe you could just give it to her to be, how Obama says "Neighborly"
right!...such a laughable and disgusting concept.
Well its only 12 bucks!
Yes because helping each other is so unthinkable..... its funny
Its not unthinkable, that's what Obama supports. If his plan takes affect MrsR will be helping others more, so instead of telling her to redo her research you could be very democratic, cut back and help her out.
I do think this is funny because it is easy to go on these boards and say how its no big deal for people to have higher taxes, but I also know, no one who supports that would be forking over 12 bucks to help one of those HENRY's out.
I have been told I have a sick sense of humor =)
EDIT:
I would like edit the "no one who supports" part. I was generalizing and should say "its very unlikely that anyone" (so this would include me too)
Message edited 10/27/2008 5:04:25 PM.
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| Posted 10/27/08 4:53 PM |
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MissJones
I need a nap!
Member since 5/05 22136 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
I've said it before and I'll say it again. You make 250K, you MAKE it stretch.  You FIND a way to make that work. Maybe it means the LX model, not the EX. Maybe it means the 4 bedroom ranch and not the 6 bedroom McMansion. Maybe it means the gap and not Nordstroms. Maybe it means putting the credit card down. I've seen people make it farther on less.
Message edited 10/27/2008 5:11:32 PM.
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| Posted 10/27/08 5:09 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by MissJones
I've said it before and I'll say it again. You make 250K, you MAKE it stretch. You FIND a way to make that work. Maybe it means the LX model, not the EX. Maybe it means the 4 bedroom ranch and not the 6 bedroom McMansion. Maybe it means the gap and not Nordstroms. Maybe it means putting the credit card down. I've seen people make it farther on less.
Seriously, I'm a big proponent of tax reform and have said it many times, but I am starting to take offense at some of these comments. If the people who earn in the $250k tax bracket were to flip the argument and make some of the reverse accusations of people who earn less, they would be crucified. It's just as unacceptable to make these type of judgments, on either side of the coin.
This is just an unbelievable sweeping generalization to presume that families who are earning $250k+ who feel stretched are wasting their $$ on luxury items. You have absolutely NO idea what each person's individual story is - some have insane student loans, some are taking care of elderly parents, etc. The judgment and generalizations that come out of these threads are so disturbing...
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| Posted 10/27/08 5:16 PM |
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Mommy2Boys
My Boys!!!!
Member since 6/06 14437 total posts
Name:
C
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by MrsR
Ok I'll admit I didnt read this whole thread...so maybe my statement is coming out of left field - I'll give it a shot anyway.
I don't really understand what is going on here.
The idea of the american dream is to make $$, have a good life, save for college and retirement, send your kids to good schools, etc...
SO - when people have that...they have a portfolio, and send their kids to private school, and have extra money every month to save for retirement..they are getting flamed..."no sympathy from me...stop your moaning" etc....
When really isn't that what we are all aiming for in this life? Don't we all want the neccessities and maybe some luxeries in life? I mean isnt that our responsibility - To take care of OURSELVES. That is what these Henry's are doing!!
I have to be honest...I'm in that henry group - and if Obama is elected I am going to have to make some different choices in my life. I may have to go back to work since our taxes are going to go up. We have talked about moving - I might be in a position that I can't move because of changes in the tax laws. Do I HAVE To move...no...can I make other cut backs to stay home, maybe...but I am resentful that anyone would tell me to "Stop my moaning"...when we worked long and hard to get what we have and now that might be taken away.
I have sympathy for the have nots, I came from have-nots...I know what it is like....so I cant help but find it disrespectful when someone tells me to "stop my moaning" when more of my hard earned money is going to be taken away from me and my husbands small business, and my family.
did you, per chance, see the chart that would tell you roughly how much higher your taxes are going to get?
I would do that before making any rash decisions.
if you don't trust internet calculators, your acct could perhaps shed some light. there are also non partisan charts you could look at to get an idea.
good luck.
I was going to suggest the same thing. I honestly dont think your taxes are going to go up so much higher that it is going to warrant you moving or changing your life around.
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| Posted 10/27/08 5:17 PM |
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CkGm
They get so big, so fast :(
Member since 5/05 13848 total posts
Name:
Christine
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by jellybean1420
Posted by kerrycec03
I'm sorry, this article def. just redefines my ideas that if you are living with a salary of 250K or more you are comfortable. More comfortable than most and you're not getting any sympathy from me.
ITA!!!! I would love to know the world people are living in making $250k+ thinking they have it hard....I dont care where you live. You can live anywhere in the US on $250k very comfortably, in some places more comfortably than others.
NOTE: My DH and I do not have an income level of $250 but I consider us comfortable anyhow.
Depending on your level of comfort, I respectfully disagree. Southern California (Los Angeles area) has some of the highest median home prices and the cost of living, taxes etc. is outrageous. Even on 250k you are living in a 1800 sq ft home for an average of 775,000 with your fixed rate mortgage, you are not taking fancy vacations or buying expensive clothing. Your bulk of your pay is going toward your ridiculous mortgage. Which is why even though we love living here, DH and I decided we needed to move once the housing crisis passes in a couple of years.
ETA: I finally got to read the article and all the people quoted live in neighborhoods around mine in California. Its no wonder they feel the pinch for the reasons I described above.
Message edited 10/27/2008 6:36:23 PM.
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| Posted 10/27/08 5:25 PM |
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MissJones
I need a nap!
Member since 5/05 22136 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by MissJones
I've said it before and I'll say it again. You make 250K, you MAKE it stretch. You FIND a way to make that work. Maybe it means the LX model, not the EX. Maybe it means the 4 bedroom ranch and not the 6 bedroom McMansion. Maybe it means the gap and not Nordstroms. Maybe it means putting the credit card down. I've seen people make it farther on less.
This is just an unbelievable sweeping generalization to presume that families who are earning $250k+ who feel stretched are wasting their $$ on luxury items. You have absolutely NO idea what each person's individual story is - some have insane student loans, some are taking care of elderly parents, etc. The judgment and generalizations that come out of these threads are so disturbing...
I apologize if I offended anyone. Hence why I am not in politics. Obviously my views would not be agreed with. However, take a look around. The malls are packed, cars are still flying off lots, hotels are still booked and restaurants are still filled. People are crying poverty but aren't thinking twice about spending. I think that it's safe to say that A LOT of people are wasting their $$ on luxury items. And the people I know who are taking care of their elderly parents are not the ones who are in that category because their priorities have shifted.
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| Posted 10/27/08 5:44 PM |
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organichic
LIF Adult
Member since 9/08 2223 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by BabyAvocado
Ugh. Where do I start.
I agree that (depending on where you live) $250k/yr is not necessarily rich.
However, when I read things like this:
distressed by their shrinking portfolios.
I don't have a "portfolio".
Lindsay Mayer and her husband, Zach, a Dallas attorney, feel stretched on $500,000 a year.
STRETCHED? At 500k? You have serious money management issues.
She's saving $800 a month for the children's college fund and $4,000 a month for retirement
That's not even my mortgage payment, bills, savings, etc combined in one month and she can just tuck it away like she doesn't need it.
During that period companies wrested far more productivity from their midlevel employees and were extremely cautious about adding new factory workers, secretaries, or salesmen, a major reason that profits exploded. But it was a great time for executives
But that was ok?
I CANNOT feel sympathy for these people or sudden understanding of their "plight". Instead, they sound profoundly GREEDY to me.
The fact is, it would be nice if we didn't have to raise taxes on anyone. But that's not reality. My understanding is that these so-called "henrys" have been getting tax BREAKS all these years and it's now time that they pay their fair share. I could be wrong about that, and if so, that's fine. If they've been paying their fair share all along, great.
But I can tell you this: right now we are far from making that much money and I consider us living well (no where near rich, not poor, just doing fine - maybe more than fine when compared to some) and making $250k/yr eventually is not unrealistic for us. If it did happen I would EXPECT to be paying more taxes at that level of income.
I don't think it's fair to levy a crushing burden on this income level, and I don't think that's what will happen. But pay a little more? I don't see anything wrong with that.
It's not punishment for success. It comes with the territory.
Very well said.. I feel the exact same way.
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| Posted 10/27/08 5:44 PM |
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MrsR
My love.
Member since 5/05 6247 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by MissJones
I've said it before and I'll say it again. You make 250K, you MAKE it stretch. You FIND a way to make that work. Maybe it means the LX model, not the EX. Maybe it means the 4 bedroom ranch and not the 6 bedroom McMansion. Maybe it means the gap and not Nordstroms. Maybe it means putting the credit card down. I've seen people make it farther on less.
Seriously, I'm a big proponent of tax reform and have said it many times, but I am starting to take offense at some of these comments. If the people who earn in the $250k tax bracket were to flip the argument and make some of the reverse accusations of people who earn less, they would be crucified. It's just as unacceptable to make these type of judgments, on either side of the coin.
This is just an unbelievable sweeping generalization to presume that families who are earning $250k+ who feel stretched are wasting their $$ on luxury items. You have absolutely NO idea what each person's individual story is - some have insane student loans, some are taking care of elderly parents, etc. The judgment and generalizations that come out of these threads are so disturbing...
Thank you Beth - as usual you so neatly state the point that I was trying to prove. I was trying to show another point of view - and to explain how hurtful it is when people who don't have crucify and judge those who do.
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| Posted 10/27/08 6:16 PM |
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MissJones
I need a nap!
Member since 5/05 22136 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by MrsR
I was trying to show another point of view - and to explain how hurtful it is when people who don't have crucify and judge those who do.
Well, this 'have not' is not judging. This 'have not' is basically saying that people need to watch their spending. And if someone is struggling with 250K, then someone needs to re-evaluate their spending. And it doesn't take a 'have not' to say that. I'm sure most millionaires would advise THE SAME THING.
1. Avoid the Earn-to-Spend Mentality
Michael LeBoeuf, author of The Millionaire in You, points out that to increase wealth, it's essential to emulate millionaires who view money as something to save and invest, rather than income to spend. Many wealthy people live quite simply, he points out, choosing less pretentious homes than they could theoretically afford and opting for financial independence over material showmanship.
So, while you may think I'm judging, I'm not. I'm saying that 250K is pretty damn good and you MAKE that work. It might suck, it might be hard, but the single mom making 10 times less than that is trying, too.
Message edited 10/27/2008 8:07:50 PM.
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| Posted 10/27/08 8:05 PM |
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Chatham-Chick
*********************
Member since 5/05 10311 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
I have to wonder if some of you even read the article in its entirety.
I know for us, just as others stated in the article, it's frustrating and somewhat insulting when Obama and Biden brands us as "rich" and state we're not paying our fair share in taxes.
I didn't take anyone in that article as whining or moaning about their financial circumstances. I took it as them explaining their financial situations...where they are and what their concerns are for their future (as well as their children's).
The article in fact stated that the proposed tax increase under Obama is not as harsh as it looks. It's the AMT that concerns most. Regardless of who's elected, there will still be tax increases. There's no way around it.
The criticsm for people wanting to make more money is laughable. Just as HENRYs make choices to better their lives, so do those who make less. Many of us could live in cheaper homes or apartments, but we don't. Of course it would benefit our bank accounts, but yet we opt for a better location in hopes of a better future for ourselves (and possibly children, depending on your circumstances). Of course no one has to live in a 700K home, but no one has to live in a 300K home either when there's a 100K home available.
Again, the assumption (as proven by a poster) that someone who makes 250K drives a luxury vehicle and lives in a McMansion is comical. Sure, there are folks who fit that bill, but there are plenty more who live rather modestly.
Message edited 10/27/2008 8:34:11 PM.
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| Posted 10/27/08 8:33 PM |
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MrsR
My love.
Member since 5/05 6247 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by MissJones
Posted by MrsR
I was trying to show another point of view - and to explain how hurtful it is when people who don't have crucify and judge those who do.
Well, this 'have not' is not judging. This 'have not' is basically saying that people need to watch their spending. And if someone is struggling with 250K, then someone needs to re-evaluate their spending. And it doesn't take a 'have not' to say that. I'm sure most millionaires would advise THE SAME THING.
1. Avoid the Earn-to-Spend Mentality
Michael LeBoeuf, author of The Millionaire in You, points out that to increase wealth, it's essential to emulate millionaires who view money as something to save and invest, rather than income to spend. Many wealthy people live quite simply, he points out, choosing less pretentious homes than they could theoretically afford and opting for financial independence over material showmanship.
So, while you may think I'm judging, I'm not. I'm saying that 250K is pretty damn good and you MAKE that work. It might suck, it might be hard, but the single mom making 10 times less than that is trying, too.
The thing is - I agree with this point on all accounts. Part of the reason DH and I have what we have is because we live below our means.
I never said it was hard - what I said was I don't think it is fair that those with or without money decide and criticize what others do with their money or decide what is important to others.
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| Posted 10/27/08 8:33 PM |
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itsbabytime
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 9644 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by MissJones
I've said it before and I'll say it again. You make 250K, you MAKE it stretch. You FIND a way to make that work. Maybe it means the LX model, not the EX. Maybe it means the 4 bedroom ranch and not the 6 bedroom McMansion. Maybe it means the gap and not Nordstroms. Maybe it means putting the credit card down. I've seen people make it farther on less.
Seriously, I'm a big proponent of tax reform and have said it many times, but I am starting to take offense at some of these comments. If the people who earn in the $250k tax bracket were to flip the argument and make some of the reverse accusations of people who earn less, they would be crucified. It's just as unacceptable to make these type of judgments, on either side of the coin.
This is just an unbelievable sweeping generalization to presume that families who are earning $250k+ who feel stretched are wasting their $$ on luxury items. You have absolutely NO idea what each person's individual story is - some have insane student loans, some are taking care of elderly parents, etc. The judgment and generalizations that come out of these threads are so disturbing...
I agree. And, sorry to break to you but a 4 bedroom house in some of the nice areas in LI close commuting distance to the city will cost you over a million dollars - a down payment for that and the mortgage payments - and keep in mind that the person wasn't ALWAYS making $250,000 a year. A mcmansion - in these areas will prob cost you 3 mil and up - something not even $500,000/yr could afford you with a family
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| Posted 10/27/08 8:39 PM |
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lucyloo
nope
Member since 1/06 9758 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
No sympathy here. For us having a child is a huge financial decision. If we can afford it we will have 2. This guy has 5. Please.
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| Posted 10/27/08 8:59 PM |
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HelenZ
So worth the wait :)
Member since 10/07 2862 total posts
Name:
Helen
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by MrsR
. I guess my point is not really about me...more about the Henrys in general. I dont understand then critisism of them from the people who are working hard to BE them.
ahhh..I see sorry.
oh, well to that point I say this...
I am not working to BE RICH in this life, I am working to HAVE a life that is RICH.
I don't need to be a "HENRY" for that at all.
so I'd have to say nay to that. not working hard to be anything but happy and fulfilled.
I just read this whole flippin' thread, and THIS is what I most agree with! 
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| Posted 10/27/08 9:08 PM |
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Chatham-Chick
*********************
Member since 5/05 10311 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
What's wrong with wanting and having both?
Just because you're "rich in this life", it doesn't necessarily mean you won't have a life that is rich.
Sure money is great for materialistic things, but it also brings you a lot of freedom & options...ask those who had the cash for unexpected medical expenses.
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| Posted 10/27/08 9:22 PM |
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mrsej
The cutest!
Member since 1/07 2495 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
I think the main reason people also have a problem with Obama/biden is the way they are describing what they want to do - "fairness", "redistributing the wealth", "patriotic duty" - the terminology they use is offensive to people.
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| Posted 10/27/08 9:25 PM |
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Jackie24
~We Did it~
Member since 7/06 6718 total posts
Name:
Jackie
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Most of us on this board have the ability to make over 250K a year if we wanted to put in the time, effort, energy and make the sacrifices to do so.
Sorry but like the others said, NYC teacher over here and I will never make 250k per year, I often put in 60-70 hour weeks plus the work I do at home and I still wont make that much
I have no desire to work for Morgan stanley or do anything in the financial field that would allow me to make this kind of money.......also I know plenty of "finance" majors that are having hard times finding jobs so making 250 and up is out of reach for most people IMO
I also don't consider 250k salary to be rich either
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| Posted 10/27/08 9:33 PM |
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HelenZ
So worth the wait :)
Member since 10/07 2862 total posts
Name:
Helen
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by Chatham-Chick
What's wrong with wanting and having both?
Just because you're "rich in this life", it doesn't necessarily mean you won't have a life that is rich.
Sure money is great for materialistic things, but it also brings you a lot of freedom & options...ask those who had the cash for unexpected medical expenses.
I understand what you're saying, and of course most people would love to have the extra freedom that more $$$ brings......but my applauding of Ophelia's comment was b/c while I work for a company filled with investment bankers and traders, I personally would never trade off my personal time for that wealth. as far as the comment that people are working hard to "be" those people making more than $250K.....I think many of those who posted on this thread are happy with what they are doing now, not trying to climb to the top, and in my case, we're just hoping that neither DH or I get laid off in these tough times. 
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| Posted 10/27/08 9:48 PM |
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