BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

I know this is controversial somewhat- and I really need honest opinions from some BTDT moms about this! I appreciate all of your feedback!

I've posted before about Matty's sleep problems and I'm at my wits end now. DH and my mom are pressuring me to start CIO but I don't think I can.


He is five months old today and instead of feeling happy about it I was so tired I could barely make it through the grocery store. I talked to a therapist and she told me I don't have PPD- what I have is extreme sleep deprivation! Here is our typical night:
Asleep at 7:30pm- up at 3am for five minutes, up at 4:30am to nurse one boob, up at 5:40am for the other boob and then in bed with me to sleep until 6:45am. Then 2-3 naps a day in bed with me or in the swing. this has been going on since he was born and I'm just so tired. Even with my mom coming over to help I still hear him and wake up at night- DH thinks I should sleep on a mattress in the basement- that's how tired he knows I am. In the meantime since he has started sleeping through from 8pm till at least 1am I am going to go to bed when he does but that leaves very little time for a life....

1- I'm scared he will feel abandoned if we do CIO.
2- I'm aslo scared he won't grow well and will be an unhappy cranky baby because I'm too chicken to do it!
3- Maybe start it for napping in the crib during the day but go to him at night?

I don't know- can someone tell me if they think he will just outgrow this- I am so scared to do CIO! should I start trying it for naps- is five months too little?

TIA!

ETA: I really feel like so many babies on here are already sleeping through the night and I must be doing something wrong!

Message edited 4/29/2007 5:14:30 PM.

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

My DH and I were about to trade our DS in after a few weeks of MAJOR sleep deprivation (at 3.5 months)! He would fall dead asleep on us and everytime we placed him down he would wake up screaming. We would place him in bed with us, but then we would hardly sleep knowing he was there.
We were worried there was something wrong with him, so we took him to the doctors - perfectly healthy! She said it appeared to be a classic case of him "training us"!! Little bugger!
So, she told us to let him CIO. She said during those first few months CIO isn't the best option as they're getting used to the new surroundings, but at that time it was absolutely ok.
So that night we came home and tried, I cried some, my husband put the pillow over his face... we turned the monitor off so it wasn't "amplifying" the sound, and after about an hour it was over and he was asleep.
The next night, he went to bed right away on his own!!

Moral of the story: try it - you won't be hurting him and he won't even remember it! The worst that could happen is you'll shed a tear or two!

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

Oh... just to add - my DS is 5.5 months now and sleeps from 8:30 until 7:00am and rarely wakes up once

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

Sleeping from 7:30pm and up at 3am is sleeping throught the night. 5 hours + is considered sleeping through the night... Can't help with CIO since we do NOT believe in it. DD has never slept more than a 4 - 5 hour stretch since birth so I can relate to the exhaustion

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

You aren't doing anything wrong. I did CIO and my daughter still needed one feeding around 4 am until she was 21 months old. Not all babies are ready to sleep all the way through the night at 5 months. The two or three naps a day are totally normal too. What is a problem is the 3 am, 4:30 am, 5:40 am wake ups. At 3 am does he refuse both sides? Getting him to eat more at once instead of a little so many times might help...

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

When are you going to do the CIO. That doesn't seem like a horrible night schedule. Have you tried going to bed early, like 9. This way you at least get 6 hours from 9-3.

I have not tried CIO because I really haven't had the need to. Sort of. DS goes to sleep at 8, up at 3/3:30 for paci. Sometimes he's up for an hour or more, but sometimes he goes right back down and up for the day at 6:30.

Matty is 5 months and sleeping for a 7.5 hour stretch, which I think is GREAT! They consider "sleeping through the nigh" a 5 hour stretch. I we all would like for it to be 8pm-8am, but I don't think it works that way yet

Hang in there. Whatever you choose, you have to stick with it. Consistency is key.

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

Oh no - I hope I wasn't insinuating you were doing anything wrong! I wasn't!!
Another thing that helped with us was that we integrated formula with breast milk - totally personal choice.
His last bottle before bed would be formula, and since it's thicker it really seemed to help him sleep through the night (or at least longer periods at first).
I have a few friends who do the same.

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

Honestly, if you are firmly against CIO, then I do not think you should do it. I think that maybe reading some literature on the subject might help. I read How to Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems by Ferber. While it advocates CIO, I think people overlook his many other theories on what babies need. His main discussion in the book isn't about CIO, it's about sleep associations and how babies really need to have their sleep conditions be consistent at all times. He advocates a healthy routine and doing away with unhealthy attachments. I would suggest reading it or another book that is similar to help guide you.
I thought I could do CIO on my own, but once I read Ferber's book, I realized that the CIO part is just a small piece of the bigger puzzle. It really helped.
Hang in there

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

Thanks so much everyone. I just don't know whether or not to do it. I was thinking of trying it first for getting him to sleep in his crib for naps. I know he will really cry for an hour though and I just don't think I can do that to him when I know he will sleep in his swing or with me. It just feels wrong. But having him nap in his crib would make a world of difference for us.

I've tried having him nurse on both sides at 4am but mostly he falls back asleep after one boob. We've tried giving him formula at night and it doesn't seem to make a difference. He's taking oatmeal now at 5:30pm maybe that will make a difference in another week or so?

I read the Weissbluth book and it makes me feel so guilty about NOT letting him CIO! Like I will ruin his life for keeping him sleep deprived! I also know that if DH and I were better rested we would all be a happier family. But it feels wrong to me to do it- I just don't know.

I think for now I'm going to just go to bed at 8:30/9:00- that will help!

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

you DO need some sleep.

AT 5 months old, you need to AT LEAST get him to nap in his crib.

You can ABSOLUTELY try a modified CIO. Babies know that certain behaviors will elicit a reaction from momma or dadda.

Have you tried any of the sleep habit books?

I guarantee that once he starts sleeping WELL, he'll sleep longer and better.

and you need to nap when he naps.

ETA: it can't hurt to try......they say 3 days will change a bad habit...so try it for 3 days or 5 days and see if anything changes. Come up with a game plan FIRST and STICK to it, even it means getting someone else to wait the 5 min, 10 min, 15 min of crying intervals while you get out of the house so you don't hear it!

Message edited 4/29/2007 7:43:11 PM.

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

we did it with Ella around 5 months. Now she consistently sleeps 12+ hours.

Its hard for a few nights but SO worth it, for all of you.

Its great that he's sleeping 7:30-3am, but that he's getting up every hour after that must be really rough for you. He's old enough now that he doesn't need to eat that often. Can you give him both boobs at 3am, and hold him off a bit longer? Has he started cereals yet?

eta: we didn't CIO for naps. There are some nights where she'll wake up but we take those one by one. Like this week with her teeth bothering her, I've fed her during the night to get her back to sleep. But thats not the norm - she generally sleeps through.

Message edited 4/29/2007 7:50:37 PM.

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

We did CIO at 5 1/2 months, we started with the crib at night and I kept her napping in the swing until she was about 7 months old.
I did try napping her in the crib during the day but she just wasn't doing it until she was ready.
But the nighttime was so important for me so we did CIO and it wasn't great the 1st night but by the 3rd night she was fallling asleep and staying asleep on her own.
Good luck!

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

Maybe another approach will help get him passed that 3am wake-up..tryi dream feeding him before you go to bed at 9 or 10pm... Take him out of the crib and let him nurse until he stops. Topping off his belly might help since he may be waking from hunger still at 5 months. Molly is 6 months and I did that for a while and now she sleeps from 7-6 every night. I'm not liking the 6am wakeup but I don't think I should complain.

I am a CIO advocate. It was the only thing that worked for Jack since he was so strong willed. Molly seems to be a lot more easy going and I really haven't had to do it with her...so hopefully that will stay the same.

Good luck!

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

First off, I feel your pain. But, breastfeeding is different. They need to nurse more often. My son started sleeping in longer stretches (waking up twice a night) at 8 months and now at 10 months he sleeps through the night a few nights a week. A few nights he still wakes up once. I tried CIO at bedtime but not in the middle of the night, but finally I just gave in and I figure this wont last forever so I nurse him to sleep and back to sleep if he wakes up.

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

CIO did NOT work for Matthew, I read a GREAT book called the No-Cry Solution, and now Matthew sleeps through the night
I HIGHLY recommned this book.

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

So sorry you are exhausted, we have all been there.

I can tell you if you are considering CIO because of desperation Dont' do it in my opinion. We tried CIO out of desperation and I cried, DH was on the verge of tears and my poor little girl was a mess. YOU HAVE to 150% consistent and 100% agreed to follow through. We just couldn't bear to hear her cry and scream so hard for more than 5 minutes.

I also honestly think that CIO works for many but not all babies and even some successful CIO moms will tell you the tiniest bit of variation from the schedule will send you back to square one.

I totally believe in gentler techniques that teach baby is bedtime, then having them CIO by learning, well mommy and daddy aren't coming to help me, I am exhausted, I have nothing to do but sleep now.

Do you have a nighttime bedtime routine? How many naps does DC take? Are you putting DC bed drowsy and not out cold?

Sleep begets sleep-if DC isn't taking enough naps, it will kill the nighttime sleep. Maybe DC needs a nap in the late afternoon, then go bed around 8 and sleep til 5am.

A routine is also key, it signals baby it's time for bed and gives them a wind down period. Babies THRIVE on routine.

Hang in there, it may work or DC may not be ready to sleep longer than 7 hours a night yet without eating.

I rec The no cry sleep solution and the secrets of the baby whisperer. Both books helped us tremendously when DD was waking up screaming 4-5 times a night.

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

EXACTLY what Michele said

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

CIO didn't work for my DD. She's relentless!!! I used some of the suggestions in a book titled, "Good Night, Sleep Tight" by Kim West. Not to say there was no crying, but it was a much gentler approach & it worked. Someone already mentioned trying a "dream feeding." I do this every night. My DD goes to bed by 6:30 then I pick her up and feed her at 10:00 (before I go to bed). She is pretty much still in the dream state so after I feed her she's still asleep and goes right back down. Then she wakes up at 4:00 to be fed and wakes at 6:00 ready for the day to start. I am tickled pink with the schedule. She used to have me up every 2.5-3 hours so this is a great improvement. My DD is 6 1/2 months old now.

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

Jack wasn't BF so I don't know if it makes a difference, but we had him CIO at 5 months. He was already sleeping through the night from 11-7, but needed to fall asleep in my arms. We used CIO to break him of that habit.

We started out where we'd go in and soothe him every 3-5 mins and quickly learned that it was making it so much worse. Evertime we went in, it was like starting all over again and his level of "upset" would increase everytime we left. We decided to stick it out and see how long it would take.

No doubt the HARDEST 40 mins of my life....BUT the next night was 30 mins, then 20 mins, 10 mins, 6 mins and finally by the end of the week NO MORE CRYING AT ALL!!! we couldn't believe it

Now he sleeps from 8-8:30am through to 8:30-9am every night. It totally works if you can get through those 1st few nights.


I guess it doesn't work for everybody and you really have to be consistent no matter what you do. You and DH have to be on the same page. You have to do what feels right for you, kwim. Good luck, whatever you do


if you do decide to try it, getting in the shower helps to not break down and go in their room

eta:

Message edited 4/29/2007 9:31:04 PM.

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

we did cio but were under a diff situation - dh would sleep from 7 or 8 to 8 and then all of a sudden lost her ability to do so, she just wanted to be soothed and would wake up and didn't know how to put herself to sleep....she wasn't hungry or anything but i guess had become reliant on a binky and when she spit it out would wake up....after two nights of cio it (first one was the worst, dh laid there almost hypervenitilating and huffing, and i laid there crying....) was much better....now she is back to 7 or 8 to 7 in the am.....

i never thought i would cio but everytime we would go in, she would "reset" and then when we left, it was back to square one, so we tried it and it worked for us....

eta: she is breastfed too....

Message edited 4/29/2007 9:59:38 PM.

Re: BTDT moms- need opinions on CIO!

thank you ladies for all of your suggestions!

Last night was bad for me- I was so upset about all of this that I couldn't fall asleep myself until 11:30- but DH was awesome and got up with him last night.

See, when he wakes up before 4:00am its always just for a second, we shhh him for a minute and give him the binky and he goes back right away- we don't even pick him up- but he did that twice and then got up at 5:00am, had a bottle and then went back in the crib until 6:30. He was whining but DH and I were so beat we let him whine for a few minutes and he fell back asleep- so, I guess thats a start.

We have a nice bedtime routine and he naps 2-3 times a day, just not in the crib...he sleeps in the bed with me or the swing for naps...

I don't know, we have a lot to think about and to decide- I'm so torn, I feel like CIO is best for our family overall but I just don't know if I can do it....I may start with naps though- of course, I've been saying that for two weeks!

ETA: we had been doing the dream feed a few months ago and then stopped when he was getting up anyway- maybe we should try it again!

Message edited 4/30/2007 12:21:52 PM.