Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

And if so, I was wondering what the majority think about the individual mandate in which all Americans would be required to purchase health insurance or face a penalty.

Do you feel this is constitutional or isn't it?

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

I don't know enough about the law to say- but if someone does not have insurance, gets ill/injured, who pays for it? Don't we pay for it anyway via higher taxes/premiums? I do understand people not wanting to be forced to buy something (but it's ok to mandate things for women related to reproductive health, of course. ) but I also find it unfair to be on the hook as a taxpayer, especially when certain accidents and illnesses are caused by lifestyle choices (smoking, speeding, etc.)

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

Yes, I hope it doesn't get struck down!

Health care has risen 7-8% each year for awhile now and will become a financial burden on everyone living in the U.S. if it continues this way. For many of us, about 14% of our income goes towards health care while it's 7% in other developed countries like Sweden and Canada.

That % will keep going up until something is done. At what point do we say enough is enough? When health care is 20%, 30% or maybe 40% of our income?

W/o a mandate, the cost will only continue to rise and rise unless the cost of healthcare is spread among many more...

For those who oppose the mandate, I'm guessing they have not had a medical crisis where they benefitted from Obamacare or they hope their state will provide some type of universal healthcare in the future...

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

I am divided on the issue. On 1 hand, I feel the law should pass because I think health care in this country is a disaster. Uninsured people are forced to declare bankruptcy because they can't pay medical bills and if they have a debilitating illness like AIDS or Cancer, they will struggle to bear costs.

On the other hand, if it does go forward - we are looking at increased costs across the entire system. Taxpayers will be paying for it in some form, whether employees paying increased premiums through their paychecks, increased deductibles, or higher costs by the health care providers for certain services/equipment. The amount of spending required to sustain such a model will result in increased deficit spending - and that is just..not good.

I am not sure how SCOTUS will decide - I haven't had time to watch the oral arguments on the news networks, but will prob review the transcripts over the weekend.

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

I really don't know enough about it to say if it's constitutional......and I know that was your question.

But I can say that I do *in theory* agree with it. We are required (by NYS) to carry car insurance. Just because we've never had an accident before does not mean we should be exempt. If we are provided with AFFORDABLE health insurance options I don't see the problem. But I question whether or not it will be affordable. At the end of the day, people are going to weigh their options and go with the cheapest. If the penalty/fine is cheaper, that's what they'll do.

However, it was also my understanding that the bill does not provide a clear cut way of enforcing the penalty except to withold tax refunds.....if this is true it will turn into a mess.

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

I am also divided in the issue... In one hand some people CANT afford it its just too much money an when you are living in a minimun income those $60-$100 a paycheck make a difference.
In the other hand my BF work in a NY hospital solely taking care of the people who dont have insurance and through medicaid or other forms of government assistant figuring out how the bill is going to get paid.. She deal in a daily basis with 3-4 cases with outstanding bill from $100- to $500,000 that at the end of the day get paid by the government. Which equal much higher taxes at the end for the people.

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

Message edited 3/29/2012 11:20:41 AM.

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

I am not a constitutional scholar, but in NYS you need car insurance, and that's allowed. i know it is different becuase you can choose not to drive, but you can't choose not to live BUT

My sister is an ER nurse. They have to take care of patients whether or not that have insurance. Someone has to foot that bill somewhere down the line.

Why a mandate would help is that a lot of these people show up to the ER literally with a cold, a cough, the flu, a minor abrasion, a minor sprain, etc. All things someone with insurance would go to a doctor for, but since the ER is the place they can be seen without having to pay, they go there. This costs a LOT of money because 1) The same care is MUCH cheaper at a primary doctor than in the ER 2) They are wasting valuable resources, causing hospitals to have to hire more staff or run understaffed 3) Instead of the lower amount to see a PCP coming out of a fund all are paying into, the higher amount for the ER is paid by tapayers or by the hospitals increasing the costs for paying customers. It's not fair.

We also have an issue where young and healthy people don't get insurance. Keeping those people out of the system means there are fwer people paying in and a group of high risk individuals in the pool. It also hurts those young people, because who knows when they will have a catastrophic health issue? it can happen to anyone.

The other thing is, if people have insurance they are more likely to get regular preventive care (my plan insists on certain preventive care or i get fined..seriously), and it's a proven fact that regular preventive care prevents larger problems from occurring and lowers overall healthcare costs.

I think the plan needs to happen in a way that controls the costs, and also makes sure that there is insurance available that truly is affordable for everyone. What we don't want is to force people for whom paying for health insurance is a hardship to starve over it.

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

I live in Massachusetts and I am torn on Healthcare reform. I do agree that healthcare is a basic human need and we should all have access to it, but you need to pay your fair share. That being said, since the state wide healthcare reform in MA I feel like I am paying more and getting less. Every year premiums go up and with this economy pay is not increasing. The services and amount that my plan will cover goes down every year as does the amount my employer will contribute.
Massachusetts has one of the highest, if not THE highest, health care cost in the US. In my opinion you are not getting your money's worth. My DH does not have health insurance since he was laid off over 2 years ago. Him going on a family plan was going to take needed money out of my check, the only income we have, and also going to cost my company (a small business) a LOT of money. Paying the fine at tax time is less money than paying the insurance from every check. This is the decision we have made. I cannot wait until my DH gets enough hours at his new job where he can get a family plan though them and it will be 100% paid for by the company. It will be that much more we can take home from my check.

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

I'm against it.

There are people who do not want to buy insurance. I didn’t want to pay for insurance when I moved to NY because I don’t care HOW cheap it was I couldn’t afford it at the time. I got a stomach flu and I just winged it as long as I could. I thought I was going to die. But it was my choice.

No insurance is mandatory due to the essence of “just because” not even Auto insurance. If you want to own a car, you need to insure it. If you don’t want to insure it, you shouldn’t have a car. If you break the law enough we’ll take your license from you.

If you are breathing you MUST have health insurance? That’s a bit more drastic, in my opinion.

By inaction, currently, there is no fine, damages etc. If you never ever get sick its even better. If you do get sick and you choose to pay for it out of pocket, I don’t care, that’s YOUR choice. Your RIGHT. I don’t pick up Vision and no Dental for my daughter. Both are very pricy. If my daughter needed a major oral surgery, I’d pay for it. Honestly its why I choose to have an FSA (a tax free way of putting money aside for unexpected medical – again voluntary). If I run through my FSA, I make payment plans. Its taken me YEARS to pay off my medical bills and that’s with insurance.

By inaction, if I understand their suggestion, then it’s a federal law I’m breaking and I am fined. If I choose to be honest and raise my hand and say I don’t want it, then I must pay money into a pool that I may never use. Or even if I ever did need medical assistance I could still afford to pay it out of pocket.

Plenty of statistics are flying around. I think that maybe there should be federal assistance, though I cringe when I think how badly we run our other social services. I do not think that if someone chooses not to take that assistance they should be punished in ANYWAY. The rich old woman (aka my Aunt) who’d rather pay for things herself shouldn’t have to be fined for her choice.

What’s next? Do we force all homeless people into a home otherwise put them in jail for not following the law? Do we force all unemployed citizens into forced labor so they can contribute?

We should never have a right to force any citizen in our country to pay a fee for the right to be an American Citizen. Even taxes are generated out of our voluntary choice to work. We don’t go door to door and require even working adult to pay a tax regardless of income. If you choose not to work and choose not to have any earnings, or taxable income and/or assets then you should have no taxable liability (ie the unemployed slacker 30yr old living at home).

I actually LIKE what they were thinking of doing. But parts of it (such as this) make me uneasy.

I think we should instead fine the Fudge out of Fraud. I think tort law should be reviewed. I think our premiums are high not because there are people not buying insurance and then using the medical system but doctors who ask for test only to get paid, people who lie to get drugs, people who pad injuries to milk the system (even with insurance) lawyers who profit because they know insurance companies can't afford bad press or don't have the time to worry about smaller claims which then multiply into insane prices.

Flame away

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

I think what's missing in your story Veronica, is that when your little girl needs dental surgery, you're paying for it. What the larger and more costly issue is that many people with health insurance show up to Emergency rooms all over and they are NOT paying for it.

What's a better way to solve that issue?

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

The way I see the healthcare issue is like I see education. Everyone agrees that everyone is entitled to free education, no matter what you socio-economic category is? I mean, just because your poor doesn't mean that you don't deserve to be educated, right? Why is healthcare any different?

If you are against Obamacare, do you not have a problem with healthcare premiums that are increasing by double-digits each year for less coverage?

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

Can anyone tell me how much this will cost and who is paying for it? What is the price difference if everyone is not insured versus being insured?

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

The difference between the auto insurance claim and health is that one is a state mandate, the other federal. If you own a car, you must have insurance. But, the constitutionality of
this law is brought up because it's at the Federal level. Even I, someone in favor of universal healthcare, question this mandate.


Now, my rant:

There is something fundamentally wrong with the general mentality of this country in regards to healthcare, IMVHO. People tend to live in a bubble believing that things are ok for them because they have insurance, jobs, assets. But that isn't the reality that I've watched for almost 20 years.

I have problems with healthcare in this country. I have been doing medical billing and collections since 1995. Prior to that I worked for a major Massachusetts insurer (and later subsidiary) processing claims. So almost 20 years I've been doing this, for a variety of providers - hospitals, anesthesia, home health care, durable medical, ER.. I've been around the block..........

I have sent bills and paid bills totaling close to a million dollars for hospital stays post accident. I have had a few bills which exceed a million dollars. I have sent bills to families for 5 figures for services like home oxygen, hospital bed rental, medical supplies........ and those bills are LESS than what a hospital would bill them. And many of these people HAD insurance. They may have maxed out their policy lifetime or yearly limits. Their insurers (in some cases, wrongly) called the condition preexisting. Their insurers just refused to pay for random reasons. I have placed hospital liens against people's assets for medical bills in the mid 6 figure range.

Never assume that because you have "great" insurance you'll be protected. Never assume that because you have savings or assets one hospital stay won't bankrupt you. Never assume you can make a payment plan on a bill totaling over a million dollars. Never assume that a hospital will not make your life hell by suing you and getting a judgment against you. Never assume your wages won't be garnished. Never assume your credit won't be destroyed. Never assume you won't have to file for bankruptcy even after you lose everything. Never assume that a provider will treat you if you lose your insurance.

Never assume you are immune from financial disaster because you're OK right now. You may own a home, have a good job, have decent insurance, savings, bonds etc etc etc.

Trust me, I've seen even the most financially planned/secure people lose every penny paying for medical care for their loved ones. And it's heartbreaking. But, it's reality. Until you're there, living it, you won't know what really happens. You may not even believe that it could happen. But it does, every day. And the stories you read only tell the half of the pain of these families. I've always been fortunate enough to work for providers (sans one) who would help their patients and assist them with their insurers. I've been on the phone with grown men who have been reduced to hysterical sobbing because of the astronomical costs and stress. Inconsolable.Wondering which bill to pay. It's not right.

I hope that NONE of us have to be there, ever.

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

I vote that we just deduct 3-5% extra on each income earner's paycheck and use that to pay for healthcare... forget the mandate.

There will always be someone who says, I don't benefit from obamacare, why should I be penalized?

Well, I don't have kids, why should I pay for school taxes?

I don't intend to retire and take SS, why should I pay into it?

In both cases, I am already being penalized...

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

Posted by tarabelle99

The difference between the auto insurance claim and health is that one is a state mandate, the other federal. If you own a car, you must have insurance. But, the constitutionality of
this law is brought up because it's at the Federal level. Even I, someone in favor of universal healthcare, question this mandate.


Now, my rant:

There is something fundamentally wrong with the general mentality of this country in regards to healthcare, IMVHO. People tend to live in a bubble believing that things are ok for them because they have insurance, jobs, assets. But that isn't the reality that I've watched for almost 20 years.

I have problems with healthcare in this country. I have been doing medical billing and collections since 1995. Prior to that I worked for a major Massachusetts insurer (and later subsidiary) processing claims. So almost 20 years I've been doing this, for a variety of providers - hospitals, anesthesia, home health care, durable medical, ER.. I've been around the block..........

I have sent bills and paid bills totaling close to a million dollars for hospital stays post accident. I have had a few bills which exceed a million dollars. I have sent bills to families for 5 figures for services like home oxygen, hospital bed rental, medical supplies........ and those bills are LESS than what a hospital would bill them. And many of these people HAD insurance. They may have maxed out their policy lifetime or yearly limits. Their insurers (in some cases, wrongly) called the condition preexisting. Their insurers just refused to pay for random reasons. I have placed hospital liens against people's assets for medical bills in the mid 6 figure range.

Never assume that because you have "great" insurance you'll be protected. Never assume that because you have savings or assets one hospital stay won't bankrupt you. Never assume you can make a payment plan on a bill totaling over a million dollars. Never assume that a hospital will not make your life hell by suing you and getting a judgment against you. Never assume your wages won't be garnished. Never assume your credit won't be destroyed. Never assume you won't have to file for bankruptcy even after you lose everything. Never assume that a provider will treat you if you lose your insurance.

Never assume you are immune from financial disaster because you're OK right now. You may own a home, have a good job, have decent insurance, savings, bonds etc etc etc.

Trust me, I've seen even the most financially planned/secure people lose every penny paying for medical care for their loved ones. And it's heartbreaking. But, it's reality. Until you're there, living it, you won't know what really happens. You may not even believe that it could happen. But it does, every day. And the stories you read only tell the half of the pain of these families. I've always been fortunate enough to work for providers (sans one) who would help their patients and assist them with their insurers. I've been on the phone with grown men who have been reduced to hysterical sobbing because of the astronomical costs and stress. Inconsolable.Wondering which bill to pay. It's not right.

I hope that NONE of us have to be there, ever.

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

Posted by tarabelle99

Never assume you are immune from financial disaster because you're OK right now. You may own a home, have a good job, have decent insurance, savings, bonds etc etc etc.

Trust me, I've seen even the most financially planned/secure people lose every penny paying for medical care for their loved ones. And it's heartbreaking. But, it's reality. Until you're there, living it, you won't know what really happens. You may not even believe that it could happen. But it does, every day. And the stories you read only tell the half of the pain of these families. I've always been fortunate enough to work for providers (sans one) who would help their patients and assist them with their insurers. I've been on the phone with grown men who have been reduced to hysterical sobbing because of the astronomical costs and stress. Inconsolable.Wondering which bill to pay. It's not right.

I hope that NONE of us have to be there, ever.

Re: Has anyone been following the Supreme Court "Obamacare" hearings?

i dont know much about it, but reading one of the posters comments about how people get sent bills close to a million dollars is part of the problem!

these doctors/hospitals are getting ridiculous with what they are charging. i remember my friend asked once for a detailed bill from when she went to the hospital and they charged her ridiculous amounts for things like ASPRIN!! they might as well have charged her for breathing in the air. i have such a problem with how much things are costing. again, im not educated in this particular thing, so i dont know if they charge you all this to make up money that they are not getting from people who dont have insurance?? but i would hope that maybe somewhere down the road the bills would go down!!