Is having children a choice or a right

Okay i got into another argument with a parent who was complaining that we shouldn't take a pay freeze because they can't afford all the expenses of having a child and need a raise. While ME its okay to take the freeze (she told me to my face I should raise my hand for the freeze) - um k?

Sorry having a child (and yes i said this to her face) is a choice. We can't have kids because we can't afford them. I said we are waiting or perhaps we won't have kids. She was appalled and I said honestly i think we all should have the pay freeze not single out people.

To top it off this person burns me more then any other person at work since she has the balz to call out sick every other week and come in late because of her kids and NEVER make up the time while I have to play secretary to cover for her even though I am a designer.

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

Wrong or right, everyone has the RIGHT to procreate... but that's what makes it a choice.

Regardless of the fact if it's a right or a choice, which I don't think is a very clear question with a clear answer, they absolutely CANNOT single someone out and say "Well you get the freeze because you don't have kids so you don't need as much money." Who the hell is she to say what you have going on in your life? Maybe you don't have kids but take care of an elderly parent. She sounds like a moron.

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

I dont think there's a clear answer. Although having children is a right in a way it is also a choice as to when you have them. I don't think that what she said to you was right AT ALL but to be fair I think what she was saying was that having to support 4 people instead of 2 is harder which financially speaking she is correct, just doing the math). I don't think she should be making judgements without knowing your home situation. She could have a husband making 300k a year and have 7 kids and be better off then me in my two family household.

I just think that when people get nervous about money they say the first thing that comes to their mind in order to protect THEMSELVES. It's the typical pointing fingers game.

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

I don't think what goes on in someone's personal life should have any bearing on their salary. One kid, ten kids, no kids....your salary should be based on your qualifications and performance. If the company is doing across the board cuts, they should be across the board. Once they start picking & choosing who can handle cuts better they are potentially opening themselves up to situations of discrimination .

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

I don't think there is a clear cut answer. Do we all have the right to have children..yes, but having children should not entitle you to anything other than being that child's parent. After that, it's all on you. You chose to have a child, it's your responsibility, s*ck it up.

Sorry to be so harsh, but I have also encountered in previous work environments that certain parents thought they were entitled to things because they had kids and others didn't ( leaving work early/preferred vacation weeks/days off, more $, etc.).

And I know this is totally off topic and some will be
about it, but I don't think my tax dollars should go to supporting welfare recipients staying at home having babies they can't afford to raise. I know...set me on fire if you will, but it's how I feel. There are plenty of people out there who had unplanned pregnancies who struggled to raise their children and not go on welfare, etc., my BFF is oneof them - single mother - no child support, no family, but she managed with help from her friends, and worked full time. It can be done, you have to be willing to make the sacrifices.

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

It is a right.
It is a choice.
It is a privilege.

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

Posted by IrishLass


And I know this is totally off topic and some will be
about it, but I don't think my tax dollars should go to supporting welfare recipients staying at home having babies they can't afford to raise. I know...set me on fire if you will, but it's how I feel. There are plenty of people out there who had unplanned pregnancies who struggled to raise their children and not go on welfare, etc., my BFF is oneof them - single mother - no child support, no family, but she managed with help from her friends, and worked full time. It can be done, you have to be willing to make the sacrifices.

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

Don't get me started. People here make more than I do because they have kids and I do more work. I am not talking 5 or 10 k more; alot!
Part of the reason I have no kids is I cannot afford daycare.

On the welfare subject...
a story...
when I was in a trade school, a woman at 19 was on her 3rd kid. I asked her how she supported them and why is she having another? She said "I tell the city I don't know who the Father is and they pay for everything". Meanwhile, the baby Daddy lived with her and worked off the books.


A lot of people abuse the system which is a shame for those who REALLY need it.

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

yea if i went on welfare i could afford a kid too

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

I think it's funny because I wouldn't be surprised if this was posted on Parenting -- if more people would say it's a right.

I'm leaning more towards a choice than a right - but like others said, it's not so cut and dry easy to answer.

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

Ugh - that makes me soooo angry that she said that to you. I'm sorry but having kids doesn't give you the right to make more money than someone who doesn't. There are so many factors in one's life and she has no right to tell you that she needs money more than you because she has kids.

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

Posted by jilliibabii

Posted by IrishLass

Sorry to be so harsh, but I have also encountered in previous work environments that certain parents thought they were entitled to things because they had kids and others didn't ( leaving work early/preferred vacation weeks/days off, more $, etc.).

Ding ding ding! It's automatically assumed in my office that if someone is out, I will be staying late since I don't have children I must not have anything else important to do. I must not want to go home on time and enjoy an evening with my DH or even alone.

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

Why do people act like they have such problems and feel sorry for me and work my hours."I Have kids". No one raped you. You decided to have them. I hate that thinking.
My Father and Mother made it work! My step kid's parents made it work///jeez!

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

she is sitting very silent today after she ****** off a few other women in the office that are CF.

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

Posted by jilliibabii

Posted by dfw343

Why do people act like they have such problems and feel sorry for me and work my hours."I Have kids". No one raped you. You decided to have them. I hate that thinking.
My Father and Mother made it work! My step kid's parents made it work///jeez!

That's exactly how my co-worker is! It drives me nuts!!! It's always boo-hoo for her. I get it- it's hard work. No one FORCED you to have 3 kids- especially having the 3rd after your other 2 are already teenagers.

She's always telling me I don't know how lucky I am that I get to go home and relax with my husband. Well she already had her time to do that! When she was in her 20's, she went home right after work and relaxed, too. Don't take it out on me or expect me to pick up your slack for your own deicisions.

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

Posted by dfw343

Posted by jilliibabii

Posted by dfw343

Why do people act like they have such problems and feel sorry for me and work my hours."I Have kids". No one raped you. You decided to have them. I hate that thinking.
My Father and Mother made it work! My step kid's parents made it work///jeez!

That's exactly how my co-worker is! It drives me nuts!!! It's always boo-hoo for her. I get it- it's hard work. No one FORCED you to have 3 kids- especially having the 3rd after your other 2 are already teenagers.

She's always telling me I don't know how lucky I am that I get to go home and relax with my husband. Well she already had her time to do that! When she was in her 20's, she went home right after work and relaxed, too. Don't take it out on me or expect me to pick up your slack for your own deicisions.

your coworker is dumb. The teens can watch the baby...make them earn keep lol
That's what I'd do if I got preggers lol

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

According to the Supreme Court of the United States, procreation is a right. It is this same analysis which gives a woman the legal right to abortion, so be careful in arguing it away!

That being said, the right to procreate does not give anyone a right to be treated better or differently by their employer. I think your co-worker is an idiot. People with kids should not be exempt from a pay freeze at the expense of people without them. If a company can make pay decisions in favor of people with kids, the same logic could easily be used to make them against people with kids so your co-worker should be careful what she wishes for!

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

two sep. issues here.

it's a choice, to answer the poll.

as for your colleague, can see why she feels that way, but she shouldn't have said that out loud...anyone with a brain should not have said that. but if it's the way she feels, she can't help that....but to say it as a legit suggestion=stupid.


as for the other stuff, calling out, the supposed "feel bad for me" attitudes....nobody can understand motherhood unless you've had children. moms do because they know both sides....that's a tough pill for some people to swallow.

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

Re: Is having children a choice or a right

well yeah, if someone actually says those words to my face i would tell them to go screw.

but if they didn't, i think their words should be taken with a grain of salt because i would probably be projecting or sincerely misinterpreting their p.o.v.

if i had a kid who was sick and couldn't go to school, i would only be concerned with missing work to stay home and care for them. that doesn't mean i think my time is more important than anyone elses or that you should feel bad for me.