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anonttcer
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
Posted by dgtlsunshine
I'm confused is it protocol to shoot someone six times that has not used their weapon. This sounds really horrible.
Let someone turn around with a gun in their hands pointing at you and see how you react....
See what YOUR protocol would be....
THEN you can judge!
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Posted 5/31/09 12:42 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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Marybeth222
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
Posted by anonttcer
Posted by dgtlsunshine
I'm confused is it protocol to shoot someone six times that has not used their weapon. This sounds really horrible.
Let someone turn around with a gun in their hands pointing at you and see how you react....
See what YOUR protocol would be....
THEN you can judge!
BTW Al Sharpton is a complete azz who should stop with all of this racist stuff. He MAKES it racist.
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| Posted 5/31/09 12:48 PM |
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GioiaMia
Let's Go Rangers!
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
Posted by BabyBoy
why were shots fired when they were not shot at....
if there were to say NYPD, etc... the cop that died could of said i'm NYPD too.. where is all that information??
I really hope that if someone was chasing me down the block with a gun drawn that a cop wouldnt wait for the gun to be turned on HIM before taking action. . .
This is a sad situation for everyone involved and I am praying for them and their families. 
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| Posted 5/31/09 1:18 PM |
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Candy Girl
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erin
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
Posted by nycchic24
Posted by Snickers
Posted by jellybean1420
Posted by Snickers
The truth is, we'll never know if it was racial or not. We don't know what went through the mind of the officer who fired his weapon. We'll never know. It's not like he'll come out and say "I have subconscious stereotypes and feelings about black men with guns drawn, so I instinctively shot one when I saw it in front of me." Or maybe not. Maybe he really though the other officer was a perp. I saw on the news last night that the officer was shot in the back. Don't know if that means anything to anyone.
Al Sharpton is calling for an "investigation." I don't think there needs to be an investigation. Investigate what? It's a horrible situation for both officers. I feel so, so badly for the slain officer, his son and wife. So sad. It makes me want to cry.
I doubt very much that the cop who fired his gun said "oh a black guy with a gun, let's shoot him!"  They were patrolling a black, high-crime neighborhood. They saw a black guy with a gun chasing another person.
From what reports have said, the cops DID identify themselves as police officers. The off-duty cop should have immediately froze and dropped his gun. We will never know why he didnt... Maybe he didnt hear them in the confusion.
It was a horrible situation for everyone involved. I am sure the cop who fired his gun wants to kill himself for what he's done.
Clearly, you take this very personally, hence the eyerolling. You're also a mind reader? You know what the cop was thinking at that very moment and you also are sure that he is suicidal right now. Wow. I'm impressed.
I never said it was racial. I said we will never know if was racial. You got really defensive really quickly which gives me the impression that you may see some truth to what i was saying.
God bless all parties involved.
I think when you are married to someone who is a police officer or have someone in the family who is a police officer, yes you do get an inside look into the minds of cops. I know this is true for myself and I am sure true for the previous poster. She never said she was a mind reader..its common sense that cops have to make split second decisions and its also common knowledge that there are a lot of times that they go through deep traumatic stuff afterwards. I agree god bless BOTH parties involved..its a sad situation.
I have been in a long term serious relationship with a cop and got to know a lot of his cop friends. Some of them were quite racist. Some didn't seem to be, but who knows. That is all I am saying...who knows? This issue is far deeper than I think some of you can handle. I don't mean to be mean or sound elitist, but there are deep sociological issues beneath events like this one and it just seems like a lot of posters just roll there eyes and perish the thought of the possibility of racism. Again, I am NOT saying that the cop who shot his gun is a racist or was having racist thoughts. I am saying that we will never know.
We CAN NOT be 100% sure of what goes through anybody's mind...even those who are closest to us.
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| Posted 5/31/09 1:59 PM |
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IrishLasss334
I'll be there soon!
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Patty
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
Although I know no one involved, I would find it hard to believe that a decision was made to fire based on race alone..after all, the other officer, not identified, was running down the street with a gun. I'm sure that had mostly to do with it.
Also, reported on the news this morning that the officer that shot did identify himself but the officer that was shot turned around and with the gun in his hand, looked like it was pointed at the car with the officers. According to regulations, if confronted, the offduty officer is supposed to freeze and not move at all.
And yes, Al Sharpton is the devil. He's also anti-cop and I believe, a racist.
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| Posted 5/31/09 2:04 PM |
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quasi3
LIF Adult
Member since 7/07 1764 total posts
Name:
Stacey
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
I am going to jump in and throw something out there:
If someone broke into your car and you saw him/her would you chase after the person with a gun?.......somethings are just not adding up.
It is a sad situation for all people involved, both families are changed forever, such a shame.
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| Posted 5/31/09 9:51 PM |
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JenBenMen
party of five
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
Posted by quasi3
I am going to jump in and throw something out there:
If someone broke into your car and you saw him/her would you chase after the person with a gun?.......somethings are just not adding up.
It is a sad situation for all people involved, both families are changed forever, such a shame.
I agree ...this is why I dont like when cops have their guns when they are OFF duty....are they required to?? i dont even know the answer
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| Posted 5/31/09 11:18 PM |
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Kidsaplenty
Sister love
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
I'm normally very pro-police, but I don't see why the off duty officer was shot six times when he never even raised his gun at the other officers. I understand that they shot initially because they felt threatened by him and the gun, but 6 times? Seems like overkill.
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| Posted 5/31/09 11:57 PM |
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IrishLasss334
I'll be there soon!
Member since 1/08 6549 total posts
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Patty
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
Posted by JenBenMen
Posted by quasi3
I am going to jump in and throw something out there:
If someone broke into your car and you saw him/her would you chase after the person with a gun?.......somethings are just not adding up.
It is a sad situation for all people involved, both families are changed forever, such a shame.
I agree ...this is why I dont like when cops have their guns when they are OFF duty....are they required to?? i dont even know the answer
The NYPD requires that if you live within the City of New York, and you will be 'fit for duty' (AKA not drunk), you should carry your weapon (can be off duty weapon), because technically you are always "on the job" and are responsible to your duties.
I, for one, am happy that they carry it. Last year an off duty officer saved my husband's life, while he was in uniform.
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| Posted 6/1/09 12:12 AM |
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kaadf5
LIF Adolescent
Member since 4/08 538 total posts
Name:
anna
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
Posted by greeneyes361708
I'm normally very pro-police, but I don't see why the off duty officer was shot six times when he never even raised his gun at the other officers. I understand that they shot initially because they felt threatened by him and the gun, but 6 times? Seems like overkill.
I don't think he said "okay I will shoot six times" when you are faced with a dangerous situation you react on instinct. If you were driving a car and all of a sudden a vehicle coming directly at you would you be able to react properly to avoid an accident?
Message edited 6/1/2009 5:10:22 AM.
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| Posted 6/1/09 5:09 AM |
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IrishLasss334
I'll be there soon!
Member since 1/08 6549 total posts
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Patty
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
Posted by kaadf5
Posted by greeneyes361708
I'm normally very pro-police, but I don't see why the off duty officer was shot six times when he never even raised his gun at the other officers. I understand that they shot initially because they felt threatened by him and the gun, but 6 times? Seems like overkill.
I don't think he said "okay I will shoot six times" when you are faced with a dangerous situation you react on instinct. If you were driving a car and all of a sudden a vehicle coming directly at you would you be able to react properly to avoid an accident?
Six times doesn't empty the clip they have on their guns. This was a horrible, horrible tragic accident.
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| Posted 6/1/09 7:48 AM |
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Mommy2Boys
My Boys!!!!
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C
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
Posted by greeneyes361708
I'm normally very pro-police, but I don't see why the off duty officer was shot six times when he never even raised his gun at the other officers. I understand that they shot initially because they felt threatened by him and the gun, but 6 times? Seems like overkill.
He wasn't shot six times. The officer fired 6 rounds.
ETA: If you didnt read the rest of the thread I will explain this again.
These cops patrol a high crime black area. They saw a black man with a gun chasing another man (obviously not knowing he was a cop). It is in their right as police officers to shoot someone who is threatening the life of another with a gun whether they first fired there weapon or not. They identified themselves as police officers. The off duty cop should have immediately froze and dropped his gun. He did not...he swung around with the gun in his hand. B/c the cop thought they were in imminent danger at that time, he fired his weapon. Yes, he fired 6 times, however, he hit the off duty cop 3 times. If you have ever fired a gun, it is not like you see on TV, you are not going to fire just 1 shot...it's not really how their guns work!
99.9% of cops will tell you if they encounter someone with a gun (where it is obviously illegal for these people to carry these weapons and why would one be carrying a gun unless they intended on harming someone) they will NOT wait to be fired at before firing their weapon. They do not have to, they were not trained to and should not have to.
These cops were young on the job and maybe their inexperience led to some of what happened.
And to respond to another poster's comment...YES, I take this VERY personally when cops are attacked and why did they do this and why did they do that and they shouldnt have done this, blah blah blah. My DH is a cop...he has been shot at and he has had to fire his weapon on the job. Cases like this and the Sean Bell case are the cases that get all the media attention where it is possible one of the cops may have been a mistake (and let's be real, cops are human and make mistakes)...meanwhile you never hear on the news all the scum that is taken off the streets and that are shot in GOOD, CLEAN shoots by cops b/c otherwise they or someone else would have been killed...noone wants to hear about that...it's not juicy enough!
ETA again: And if cops live in NYC I believe they are supposed to carry their guns and be ready for duty at all times. We do not live in NYC but DH carries his gun at times off duty as well. Some cops do, some don't. Either way it is their right to do so. And trust me...if there was ever a problem you would want that off-duty cop to have their gun.
For example, in the attempted robbery of the autobody shop in brooklyn a few weeks ago. Guess what, DH works with the OFF-DUTY cop who shot the perp holding the place up with a gun. Should he have waited for him to shoot someone before shooting him???
I am not sure why people think these savages who carry guns on the streets illegally should have all these "rights"? Sad thing is, you have no idea how many of them do hardly any, if any, jail time. It is very scary when DH arrests someone for something and see's them out on the street shortly after doing the same thing.
Message edited 6/1/2009 12:45:40 PM.
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| Posted 6/1/09 9:16 AM |
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WNA01
my 2 boys
Member since 10/08 4240 total posts
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
Posted by JenBenMen
Posted by quasi3
I am going to jump in and throw something out there:
If someone broke into your car and you saw him/her would you chase after the person with a gun?.......somethings are just not adding up.
It is a sad situation for all people involved, both families are changed forever, such a shame.
I agree ...this is why I dont like when cops have their guns when they are OFF duty....are they required to?? i dont even know the answer
Perhaps people who have their spouse can enlighten u as to why their spouse carries when he/she is off duty.
My husband and I were in manhattan when a guy came up to us and smiled at my husband and said hey cap remember me ? prob not but i wont forget u. Let me tell u, having my husbands firearm strapped to his ankle gave us security. U think officers remember every perp they arrested in the past?
Yes u are required to have ur firearm on u when u are within the 5 boroughs bc u are always ON DUTY.
As far as the off duty cop being shot at 6 times - i feel bad for him - its an unintended tragedy. However, if my husband was working and a guy turned to him with a gun in his hand after my husband identified himself, he protects himself as well as his partner and does what his job taught him what to do.
For everyone who say that the cop who fired was inexperienced, what should he have done? wait for the other person to shoot at him first? If the off duty cop was a perp it would have been ok for the cop to shoot? He didnt have his ID around his neck, he didnt identify himself and he turned around holding a firearm - I think any law enforcement officer - regardless of experience has mearly seconds to decide what to do at that point and its not a time to ponder about who the person holding the gun may be if that person does not identify himself or drop his weapon.
Message edited 6/2/2009 5:59:13 AM.
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| Posted 6/2/09 5:57 AM |
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Mommy2Boys
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C
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
Posted by WNA01
Posted by JenBenMen
Posted by quasi3
I am going to jump in and throw something out there:
If someone broke into your car and you saw him/her would you chase after the person with a gun?.......somethings are just not adding up.
It is a sad situation for all people involved, both families are changed forever, such a shame.
I agree ...this is why I dont like when cops have their guns when they are OFF duty....are they required to?? i dont even know the answer
Perhaps people who have their spouse can enlighten u as to why their spouse carries when he/she is off duty.
My husband and I were in manhattan when a guy came up to us and smiled at my husband and said hey cap remember me ? prob not but i wont forget u. Let me tell u, having my husbands firearm strapped to his ankle gave us security. U think officers remember every perp they arrested in the past?
Exactly why DH carries his gun to certain places. We have been in the mall and he has seen people he's arrested even though we live on the Island and he works in the city. A perp he and his old partner arrested actually went up to his old partner in the mall once when he was with his wife and kids. It's a scary situation b/c you dont know what they are going to do. Alot of them have been in and out of the prison system since they were teenagers and dont care about cops and hurting a cop.
DH won't even wear his wedding ring at work b/c he doesnt want people knowing he has a family.
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| Posted 6/2/09 9:06 AM |
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anonttcer
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
Exactly! Sorry but when it comes down to it, I'm glad my husband has a gun. I'm glad it's in the house. Because if it comes down to them or us, you better BELIEVE it's going to be them.
It's very easy to sit in judgement when your husband doesn't have to wear a bullet proof vest to work every day.
Have someone point a gun at you and see if you are able to sit there and rationally think- what is the PROTOCOL here? Should I fire one shot or six?
Walk a MINUTE in their shoes and maybe everyone would shut their mouths.
Message edited 6/2/2009 9:31:11 AM.
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| Posted 6/2/09 9:29 AM |
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NS1976
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
Posted by anonttcer
Exactly! Sorry but when it comes down to it, I'm glad my husband has a gun. I'm glad it's in the house. Because if it comes down to them or us, you better BELIEVE it's going to be them.
It's very easy to sit in judgement when your husband doesn't have to wear a bullet proof vest to work every day.
Have someone point a gun at you and see if you are able to sit there and rationally think- what is the PROTOCOL here? Should I fire one shot or six?
Walk a MINUTE in their shoes and maybe everyone would shut their mouths.
AMEN! From my dad, to my uncle now to my baby brother..ALWAYS put yourself in other peoples shoes in any situation and you may look at it differently. You ALWAYS here about this unfortunate situations BUT theres so much we DONT hear. As someone else said, all the c rap that gets pulled off the streets, all the time that guns are fired to protect others and other peoples lives are saved..all the time the cops get hurt trying to protect us! Again, sad situation YES..but they are human men and women with seconds to think most times..something I KNOW I could never handle..so I thank GOD that there are people out there who can.
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| Posted 6/2/09 9:44 AM |
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Preguntas
it's pretty precious
Member since 1/07 3839 total posts
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Lauren
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
what a terrible tragedy. Hopefully it sheds some compasion on the fact that officers are putting their lives in danger every day. Even if not at the hands of the residents they are there to protect.
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| Posted 6/2/09 10:35 AM |
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IrishLasss334
I'll be there soon!
Member since 1/08 6549 total posts
Name:
Patty
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
Posted by nycchic24
Posted by anonttcer
Exactly! Sorry but when it comes down to it, I'm glad my husband has a gun. I'm glad it's in the house. Because if it comes down to them or us, you better BELIEVE it's going to be them.
It's very easy to sit in judgement when your husband doesn't have to wear a bullet proof vest to work every day.
Have someone point a gun at you and see if you are able to sit there and rationally think- what is the PROTOCOL here? Should I fire one shot or six?
Walk a MINUTE in their shoes and maybe everyone would shut their mouths.
AMEN! From my dad, to my uncle now to my baby brother..ALWAYS put yourself in other peoples shoes in any situation and you may look at it differently. You ALWAYS here about this unfortunate situations BUT theres so much we DONT hear. As someone else said, all the c rap that gets pulled off the streets, all the time that guns are fired to protect others and other peoples lives are saved..all the time the cops get hurt trying to protect us! Again, sad situation YES..but they are human men and women with seconds to think most times..something I KNOW I could never handle..so I thank GOD that there are people out there who can.
I totally agree with all of this. DH is NYPD. We do not live with the City of NY..so no, he does not carry his off duty with him if he is shopping around our neighborhood..ala Pathmark, etc. But if we go anywhere near NYC, you bet your azz he has it.
I am so glad it was said previously about how the media..fueled by Al Sharpton..with the..oh, he could've show restraint, blah blah blah. Be in the situation. If you aren't or haven't been, it's impossible for you to pass judgement.
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| Posted 6/2/09 1:42 PM |
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Angelheart
LIF Infant
Member since 2/09 222 total posts
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Cathy
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
This was so sad for both families.
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| Posted 6/2/09 2:39 PM |
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MommaTo3Dogs1Boy
All of My Dreams Came True
Member since 2/09 1989 total posts
Name:
Kimmie
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
the media always leaves out the IMPORTANT issues. DH is a NYPD cop and knows the story.
everything was correct where he ran after the 2nd guy with a gun who was trying to break into his car but when the 2 officers approached the cop (in regular clothes), he said "police, drop your weapons" and instead of dropping the weapon (which the off duty cop didn't have any shields out) he turned around with the gun in his hand and the officer shot the off duty cop. that's 100 percent what they're supposed to do. they didn't know he was a cop, they just saw a man chasing after another man with a gun in his hand, when they identified that they were the police & to drop the weapon, the man turned around with the gun in his hand. i would've shot too. they're supposed to protect themselves first.
i hate the media so much. it's a tragic thing that happened but the cops followed protocol. in the end, the off duty cop made a mistake and it cost him his life. it's very sad.
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| Posted 6/2/09 4:24 PM |
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MommaTo3Dogs1Boy
All of My Dreams Came True
Member since 2/09 1989 total posts
Name:
Kimmie
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
Posted by JenBenMen
Posted by quasi3
I am going to jump in and throw something out there:
If someone broke into your car and you saw him/her would you chase after the person with a gun?.......somethings are just not adding up.
It is a sad situation for all people involved, both families are changed forever, such a shame.
I agree ...this is why I dont like when cops have their guns when they are OFF duty....are they required to?? i dont even know the answer
the man was just leaving work to go home. he probably takes his gun home with him.
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| Posted 6/2/09 4:28 PM |
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Candy Girl
Candy girl- you are so sweet!
Member since 11/07 6349 total posts
Name:
erin
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
I wasn't going to respond to this thread anymore because clearly it is a sore subject for many posters, but since it has been bumped to page 1, I will.
The problem I have with the "feeling" of some of these posts is that these were two cops involved, yet certain posters keep alluding to the slain officer being a perp or doing something wrong.
People keep throwing around the cliche "walk a mile in my shoes, then tell me what you would do..." and in the next breath say that their husbands carry their weapons around off duty.
And then there are questions as to why the slain cop was defending his vehicle and possibly his own life from this guy who was trying to break in and who knows what else. Has anyone put themselves in HIS shoes?
Your DHs carry their weapons around to "feel safe." What would happen if he found someone breaking into his car? What would he do? It seems to me from the posts on this thread that they have their guns on them for that very purpose--to protect themselves.
I have no problem with cops. But I have a problem with people who can't see situations from all perspectives and who cling to cliches and simpleton talk like "he is the devil..." to prove their points.
I don't mean to cause any drama or hurt feelings, I just am trying to understand and maybe have someone understand what I am trying to say as well.
edited: confusing wording...
Message edited 6/2/2009 6:22:06 PM.
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| Posted 6/2/09 6:20 PM |
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Kidsaplenty
Sister love
Member since 2/06 5971 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
I don't think anyone is saying that a cop should wait to be shot at before defending himself. I think if the off duty officer didn't follow the proper training, he is partially at fault.
What I am saying here, is that shooting at him 6 times, when he never even raised his weapon at them, was excessive. And I think the point many people are making is that they overreacted because of his race, and that is an issue that needs to be addressed.
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| Posted 6/2/09 6:34 PM |
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Mommy2Boys
My Boys!!!!
Member since 6/06 14437 total posts
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C
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
Posted by Snickers
I wasn't going to respond to this thread anymore because clearly it is a sore subject for many posters, but since it has been bumped to page 1, I will.
The problem I have with the "feeling" of some of these posts is that these were two cops involved, yet certain posters keep alluding to the slain officer being a perp or doing something wrong.
People keep throwing around the cliche "walk a mile in my shoes, then tell me what you would do..." and in the next breath say that their husbands carry their weapons around off duty.
And then there are questions as to why the slain cop was defending his vehicle and possibly his own life from this guy who was trying to break in and who knows what else. Has anyone put themselves in HIS shoes?
Your DHs carry their weapons around to "feel safe." What would happen if he found someone breaking into his car? What would he do? It seems to me from the posts on this thread that they have their guns on them for that very purpose--to protect themselves.
I have no problem with cops. But I have a problem with people who can't see situations from all perspectives and who cling to cliches and simpleton talk like "he is the devil..." to prove their points.
I don't mean to cause any drama or hurt feelings, I just am trying to understand and maybe have someone understand what I am trying to say as well.
edited: confusing wording...
I dont think it was anyone's intention to make the slain officer sound like a perp...I think we were trying to express that the cops thought he was a perp with a gun, there was no reason for them at the time to think otherwise (there was nothing to identify him as a cop to the naked eye).
I think the post kind of got off topic when some started questioning why cops carry guns off duty, why so many shots were fired, why would the cop fire before being shot at, etc. which led to the term perps being brought up and so much defensiveness on my part and some other cop's wives on here. B/c unless you are married to a cop or are a cop yourself, no, you really dont understand.
And to answer your question about cops carrying guns off duty and what would they do if they saw someone breaking into their car, to be honest, my DH would probably call 911 FIRST and say he is a cop, he is witnessing someone breaking into this car and he is going to approach them, blah blah blah. If an off-duty cop encounters any crime or has to draw his weapon at any time or engage a criminal act their first response (before the incident if time allows) should be to call the cops and report it and let them know what is going on for their safety and the safety of everyone around. Especially when something like this, a case of mistaken identity, can happen at any time. Obviously in a situation like what happened a few weeks ago when an off-duty cop was picking up his car at an autobody shop and a guy came in with a gun and held everyone up, no he wasnt going to first call 911.
ETA: DH has always told me if god forbid we were out somewhere and a situation were to arise, he would want me to leave the area (especially if I have DS with me) and immediately call 911 and tell them he is a cop, what is going on plus what he is wearing or anything to identify him to other cops as they come to the scene. In a cops eyes when they first come to a scene where they are not sure what is going on, for their safety and everyone else's safety they have to act as everyone is the perp until they can identify otherwise.
Message edited 6/2/2009 7:02:09 PM.
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| Posted 6/2/09 6:58 PM |
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MommaTo3Dogs1Boy
All of My Dreams Came True
Member since 2/09 1989 total posts
Name:
Kimmie
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Re: NYPD Officer Killed in Friendly Fire Incident
Posted by greeneyes361708
I don't think anyone is saying that a cop should wait to be shot at before defending himself. I think if the off duty officer didn't follow the proper training, he is partially at fault.
What I am saying here, is that shooting at him 6 times, when he never even raised his weapon at them, was excessive. And I think the point many people are making is that they overreacted because of his race, and that is an issue that needs to be addressed.
the thing is he DID have his weapon raised. he turned around with the gun in his hand. the officer was just doing what he was taught. the off duty officer made a mistake (which they teach you in the academy to do whatever another officer says) and it cost him his life
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| Posted 6/2/09 10:53 PM |
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