peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

so i never had a problem with a peace sign. people wear them on shirts, draw and color them, etc.

my sister bought DS a shirt from the gap with a peace sign and it was really cute. DH and his father saw it and both FLIPPED out!

FIL was in vietnam and when people were protesting the war, the peace sign was apparently their sign of choice. according to FIL, vietnam vets are extremely opposed to the sign and see it as disrespectful to vets of that war. he is very big into the american legion. FIL taught my DH this growing up which is why he's so against it (i had to return the shirt)

FIL was so upset on memorial day because a bunch of daisies (younger girl scouts) were wearing shirts with peace signs on them. he was outraged. i just kept my mouth shut, but later told my DH that i thought it was ridiculous he was upset. i fully understand how he must have felt back in the war to be unsupported by some americans, and i don't deny him those feelings. however, i feel that nowadays, a peace sign isn't "anti-war" but just a symbol of peace. i told him those daisies and their leaders OBVIOUSLY meant no disrespect for veterans considering they were marching in a memorial day parade to commemorate veterans. i don't know that anyone really knows how FIL and his buddies feel.

i'm not looking to argue with FIL about this, but has anyone else experienced this with a vietnam vet or vet from another war?

i will also say that my own father is a vietnam vet and he never mentioned anything about peace signs (but we don't really talk so it's possible he felt it but didn't say anything)

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

I never ever saw it like that, if there was wording anti this war or that war..then maybe..but it's such a common symbol..I'm just not getting the freak out..maybe it's just me?

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

really I never heard this
my dad is a vietnam vet too

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

This makes no sense to me either--I would love a world without war, but that doesn't mean I disrespect the people that fight to defend our country.

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

Sorry, but I think that is just ridiculous (said with no intent to disrespect your FIL). Your FIL is of course entitled to his feelings, and I am sure it was very difficult to fight in a war opposed by so many Americans, but the "peace" sign was around before the Vietnam War and will be around for a long time to come. He may associate it with that war, but it certainly wasn't invented as a means to disrespect the soldiers fighting.

I am sure, even as he fought in that war, that he prayed for peace - what person wants to live in a world full of animosity? The peace sign is merely a symbol of that desire.

I'd have a hard time with my FIL or anyone telling me I could not put my son in a shirt with the peace sign, would he prefer a shirt with a gun on it?

From Wikipedia:

"The internationally recognized symbol for peace was originally designed for the British nuclear disarmament movement.[1] It was designed and completed on 21 February 1958 by Gerald Holtom, a professional designer and artist in Britain for the 4 April march planned by the Direct Action Committee Against Nuclear War (DAC) from Trafalgar Square, London to the Atomic Weapons Research Establishment at Aldermaston in England.[1][2] The symbol was later adopted by the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (CND). It was adopted by first the 1960s anti-war movement, then the counterculture, and finally the popular culture of the time."

Message edited 6/24/2010 9:30:37 AM.

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

I think this is such an interesting conundrum... I totally get why you'd see the sign as trendy and implying a pacifist stance; but I also really see FIL's side too. This is probably because as a child of the 60s, I CLeARly recall some of the anti-military and anti-vietnam outcry in the early to mid-70s (shameful behavior by those claiming to be "pro-peace".)

My parents both emigrated to the US (separately). They LOVED what this country offered in terms of opportunity and freedom. My dad was here 6 months and got drafted (in the 50s). He was in Korea & Germany as a young so he didn't see any "action" in the battle sense of the word but still he was so proud of his service and so thankful for the opportunities it created for him. He loved this country point blank.

As kids we were really POUNDED with the idea of patriotism and pride in one's country; my folks eschewed the whole "hippie" thing in favor of a more old-fashioned existence and I remember my dad singing along to some song about "leftie pinko commie fags" that the Charlie Daniels band recorded Needless to say he was not a "fan" of the hippie philosophy and treated those who were with derision. I kinda grew up thinking everyone was at Woodstock smoking hash and enjoying "free love" and writing cool folk songs. My parents' experience taught me otherwise.

The Vietnam debacle divided this country like nothing else since the Civil War; they were hugely polarized about the whole "peace" idea, vs. patriotism. But ask my mom and she will still tell you stories about the awful treatment she personally witnessed in those days and she'll have tears in her eyes when she tells it (as she does with the JFK assassination). But my parents were not naive about our government's role either, and they considered Robert McNamara (secretary of Defense during the conflict) somewhere close to Hitler and Chairman Mao on the evil leader scale. Their point was you could disagree with the government and protest THAT rather than abusing the men who served and risked their lives over there.

Wow that was long. But it was a horrendous time in our history socially and politically and I think FIL is entitled to be sensitive about it.

[As an aside here's the best book I ever read about Vietnam]:

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

But see now (i'm not arguing, just a devil's advocate POV) how does the "it's just a symbol" idea stand up if the Gap decided to print Swastikas on their apparel. The ubiquitous symbol is an icon for billions of people worldwide, and predates Christianity. But will it ever again be considered "just a design" now or in the future??
It's a purely rhetorical question of course, but I would never tell someone with a swastika on their shirt "hey, cool shirt."
If the FIL is offended by the shirt, it's not the SYMBOL, it's what it represents.

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

There are certain things, this being one of them, where I feel like I can't worry about everyone's interpertation of something.

To me, a peace sign is just that a sign of peace. For *me*, my generation even' I do not associate it with disrespecting the wonderful men & women who serve our country.

If I had a shirt with a peace sign and someone wants to take it as a sign of disrespect that is one THEM, honestly. I know perception is reality -- and for ME a peace sign is a peace sign.

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

First Colette... it's way too early. I don't have a ****** dumpling to wake me with the birds. So stop debating. Second, the swastika was a symbol of hate, never one of friendliness and love. The peace symbol has been know since the war as one of love, happiness, birds flying, cherubs, and puppies. I think that is the difference.

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

Message edited 6/24/2010 10:14:59 AM.

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

Posted by BJandDan

First Colette... it's way too early. I don't have a ****** dumpling to wake me with the birds. So stop debating. Second, the swastika was a symbol of hate, never one of friendliness and love. The peace symbol has been know since the war as one of love, happiness, birds flying, cherubs, and puppies. I think that is the difference.

Message edited 6/24/2010 10:22:28 AM.

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

Posted by BJandDan

First Colette... it's way too early. I don't have a ****** dumpling to wake me with the birds. So stop debating. Second, the swastika was a symbol of hate, never one of friendliness and love. The peace symbol has been know since the war as one of love, happiness, birds flying, cherubs, and puppies. I think that is the difference.

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

Posted by BJandDan

First Colette... it's way too early. I don't have a ****** dumpling to wake me with the birds. So stop debating. Second, the swastika was a symbol of hate, never one of friendliness and love. The peace symbol has been know since the war as one of love, happiness, birds flying, cherubs, and puppies. I think that is the difference.

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

Personally I never even knew this was an issue with vietnam vets.

I don't see peace signs that way. I understand where they are coming from. But I still think the majority of the world views peace signs differently from what you explained.

Also, the swasticka nazi symbol is actually a symbol in other culters that means somethign TOTALLY different (it's actually a positive symbol to them)than what it means to us.

Honestly... someone out there is going to be offended by something. I think as long as there is no ill intent or any maliscious motives then it's something that should be overlooked. Peace signs aren't going away anytime soon... so it's something they will have to live with and learn to not let it affect them that way. I just don't see how it's disrespectful when it's not being used in that manner.... it means something totally different to the person displaying it. I don't think the person means to disrespect any vet.

Though that's easy for me to say because I'm not a vietnam vet.

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

haha so funny.. now i'm reading all the comments above and I'm seeign all the swaticka talk.

it's just another symbol that means something different to different cultures.

heck there's probably even some people out there that wave hello with the middle finger!!

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

To be honest I was never a fan of the peace symbol because for me it represents the whole hippy anti-war movement from the Vietnam war era...I'm very pro-military & the way they were treated by this movement after serving our country really suucked.

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

Posted by Kara

Posted by BJandDan

First Colette... it's way too early. I don't have a ****** dumpling to wake me with the birds. So stop debating. Second, the swastika was a symbol of hate, never one of friendliness and love. The peace symbol has been know since the war as one of love, happiness, birds flying, cherubs, and puppies. I think that is the difference.

The swastika symbol predates Christianity. It has NOT always been a symbol of hatred. In fact, the word "swastika" comes from Sanscrit for "to be good." There were even groups of American soldiers with swastikas on their uniforms up until the end of WWI. Until Hitler's use of it, it was a symbol of good luck and life. It was a sacred symbol for Buddhists and Hindus, too. This is actually a perfect example of how a symbol that was not created in connection with a certain event or group of people can have extremely strong association with an event or group after its use in connection with them.

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

my dad is a vietnam vet and has a peace sign tatoo on his arm - he got it in the army during the war?
And he loves anything with a peace sign on it.

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

MY FIL and my DH's whole Dad's side of his family served in Vietnam and I've never ONCE heard them say anything about a peace sign. They were all very active in the Military after the war and DH's Uncle worked at the 69th Regimen Armory up until the late 90s.

Now that this was brought up though I'm deifnitely going to ask

IMHO I think your FIL is being a little ridiculous about this but I guess if he's not a turd about other stuff, you can let him have this one thing as his pet peeve

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

I wear peace sign earrings almost everyday. I do consider them pro-peace and anti-war. I don't think being anti-war is against soldiers. I am against war, not against the people making sacrifices.
Eta: To me it is a symbol, but I like what it stands for.

Message edited 6/24/2010 11:06:23 AM.

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

it just goes to show you how powerful symbols can be for some. I can totally see both sides. A peace symbol to me is not disrespectful to me nor is tie-dye BUT on Memorial Day I can see it as being so. (and the op was referring to Memorial Day too) That day is very raw for many and on that day I do believe only the highest respect should be shown. I am sure that no one ever meant any disrespect but that also just kind of shows how the this generation and the next to come need to know where they came from.

On a side note I just had to post what I did on Memorial Day...I got a new camera for Mothers Day and wanted to play..at the same time I wanted to show respect for the day and remember its not just about a bbq and hanging out. So I took an hour out of my day to take some pics at Pinelawn Memorial Cem

Message edited 6/24/2010 11:43:58 AM.

Re: peace signs--how do you feel about them? are they disrespectful to vietnam vets?

I've never even heard of that before (not doubting it, but I've never heard it).

The way I see it, when someone flashes a peace sign now, child or otherwise, it is to show they are for peace - no more, no less.