Random Searches

I don't know if you guys discussed this already but I'd like to hear your thoughts and feelings on this... the random searching of personal bags on subways in NY & NJ.

You have the right to refuse the search but if you refuse you don't get to ride.

Also... what do you think about the probability that these "random" searches won't be so "random" at all - that many police officers will knowingly or unknowingly select people for searches based on racial profiling?

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Well at this point i feel it is our police trying anything to prevent a disaster. We have to be proactive some how and if they feel this will be a deterant then search away. My life is more important than someones rights. And like you said if someone doesn't want to be searched then they can refuse.

But i think once school starts up again this will be a lost cause. There will be hoards of kids with backpacks and a terrorist can easily get on without being detected. So unless they plan to check EVERYONE, i think these searches will be ineffective.

As far as the racial profiling is concerned. Well IMO that is a consequence. Will it happen....i am sure. BUT let's face it certain ethnicities are doing this and will obviously be singled out more.

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I think that at this time, there is a lot of uncertainty about EVERYTHING.

I mean, OK, they're checking bags. How do they know that someone with a "clean" bag doesn't have wires strapped to his chest under his suit?! They have no clue. I feel like this is just another bump in the "false sense of security" road.

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Honestly, it seems like pure laziness to me. And I don't agree with our 4th amendment rights being violated because our government is lazy or inexperienced in handling terrorist threats. I say laziness because rather than go out and acquire the intelligence necessary to stop a potential attack, or hunt down the actual terrorist, or coming up with new, innovative ways of preventing or fighting terrorist threats - our gov't chooses to take the easy way out by just searching "random" people. It's like they couldn't come up with anything better. And, I agree in that I think it will ultimately be ineffective at everything besides violating our civil rights and moving towards a less free & democratic society -- exactly what the terrorists wanted - to change our way of life.

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Someone posted the 4th amendment and it didn't look like it was a violation. But i could be wrong

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Message edited 7/25/2005 8:39:40 AM.

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When someone gets on to a airplane they randomly search...Same with cruise ships....Nobody is upset about that

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Found this on findlaw.com:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized

There's more to it of course, and exceptions but I don't think these searches fall under those exceptions... well - I suppose that is what they will battle in court.

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Message edited 7/25/2005 8:44:39 AM.

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Message edited 7/25/2005 8:46:27 AM.

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Speaking from the perspective of being in London during the first round of attacks I can tell you that their security is better than ours and it still happened. That being said, that doesn't mean we shouldn't do more.

I am a huge advocate of CCTV... that is why they were able to move on this case so quickly. Unfortunately, in our country the ACLU will freak out about the use of such cameras and long court cases will be fought at tax-payers money that can be used for security. Well, they are not being put in the bathrooms or bedrooms but on the street and in other public places. If we are all behaving and are doing what we are suppose to be doing, when and where we are supposed to be doing it then what is the problem? The thousands of cameras in the London Underground and on the streets, along with thousands of hours of videotape was the key element in the police closing in the the identity of the attackers and their families. Oh, and the fact that one of their mother's called them in as missing

While searches are by no means a 100% fool-proof method that doesn't mean we shouldn't do them. Every little bit helps. I do think that it is the PUBLIC'S VIGILANCE that is key. We should always report IMMEDIATELY an unattended bag. I do think it is foolish that the police are announcing how, when and who (every 5th person, etc.) will be searched. They should be random and spontaneous.

As for the profiling... this is a tough one. I know many of you might disagree with what I'm saying but hear me out here please. If it was any other crime... for example, if a series of rapes occured in an area and the discription was a white, thirty-something, 250 lbs. man with blonde hair would the police be stopping women, children, and men who don't fit that description... I don't think so.

The men who perpetrated these heinous acts in London did so not just because they disagree with Blair's policies. It's really because they are disenfranchised in British society. Muslim men have a much higher rate of unemployment in Britain than the general population and that is what is feeding their rage.

I am a firm believer in individual rights and the promotion of a democratic and free society but sometimes the rights of "the greater good" do take precedent. I do believe that random searches do fall into this category and yes, they should be done. We just all have to leave the house a little earlier.

They have helped to decrease bus bombings in Isreal.

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I guess ultimately i may not like it but i have family that travel in the city. And if a subway, train or bus was blown up and they were killed. That would be more devestating to me then a bag search.

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Ladies,

Keep in mind that these most recent attacks were made by people who lived in the country and were citizens of the country. They did not enter the country to carry out these attacks, nor, did they bring these explosives in. They grew up in Leeds, they were not flying in from Pakistan so they would not have been caught by security at an airport or a dock.

Terrorists will always exploit the weakest link in our security. It is highly unlikely that al-Quaida or their subsidiaries will use air transport again as they know that is being monitored. They also want to create as much terror as possible so they must hit at our daily lives... what better than buses, railways, bridges and tunnels.

I also think it's VERY irresponsible of our media to always report on how particular aspects of our infrastructure are less ecure than they should be... bridges, nuclear power plants. They should just send the videotape to all on the suspected terrorist watchlist.

Yes, the 4th ammenment does protect individual rights, however, it depends upon the curcumstances. For example, in cases when one's rights as an individual to speak or act may inflect harm to another, then it is limited. Famous example, yelling fire in a crowded theater, slander and libel cases, etc.

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Posted by Redhead

true...and i am not sure where that line should be drawn. All i know is that i fear. Yes this is ultimately what they want. But i am scared.

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If I am asked to have my bag searched, I am going to do it, regardless of my privacy..

My bag was randomly searched on a trips last year. I didnt know until I got home and there was a note in my bag saying it was searched...

Do I think it is going to truly prevent anything- no.. I think we are living in desperate and scary times but I will do whatever they ask me...

We live in a scary world today....