Ugh - what are your thoughts on this (dog related) - long

Let me start by saying that I love dogs. I would have a dog if we had the time for one.

My parents have 3 wire haired dachsunds. They started with having 1 for years, and then in the course of 6 months just recently adopted 2.

One was formally a show dog, and really tweaky around kids. Cailen was so used to being around friendly dogs - my SIL's, and my parents 1 dachsund that they had, that he never had a fear of dogs. Lizzie, the show dog, was very snappy with Cailen, and he started getting scared of her. From continuous exposure to people, Lizzie calmed down.

Then, a few months later, my parents get a puppy named Lola. She is very nippy, and she does not like Cailen - she growls and nips at him all the time. We have been going away to Shelter Island a lot, and my parents bring the dogs. Lola has been menacing and biting Cailen everytime she sees him (nipping him, not breaking skin) but she has made Cailen absolutely hysterical, and now everytime he sees any dog, he is terrified, which I am devastated about. He loved dogs his whole life, and I never wanted this kid afraid of dogs, and now he is.

This weekend, the same thing. He didn't want to go in the house, or the living room because of Lola. My parents keep saying she is just a puppy, so she doesn't understand, and telling Cailen she is just trying to play - as if he gets that, and as if that removes the terror. They do nothing to discipline or redirect the dog, and think I'm overeacting - I wouldn't have a problem if she didn't chase Cailen, growl at him, and attempt to nip him everytime she sees him!

So, in order to empower Cailen, I gave him a soda can filled with coins to shake at Lola if she comes near him to ward her off. The problem is, my parents are mad about it because it is scaring the dogs!

I asked who was more important - the dogs or my child - Cailen is getting traumatized by this and Shelter Island is a special place for us to go to (it was my grandma's house, and a safe haven for me growing up - Cailen loves this house too - I don't want all this terror to permeate)

Just wanted to add - I do not play into Cailen's fear. I refuse to pick him up when he sees the dogs. I don't show any anger to the dog. I am neutral, and just tell him he's ok, and the dog won't hurt him. But I feel for him, and the weekends have been ruined by this....

Message edited 9/7/2009 10:18:50 AM.

Re: Ugh - what are your thoughts on this (dog related) - long

I don't have any dogs of my own, but I thought you did a smart thing by giving him that can.

My father was attacked by a dog when he was a kid and now 60 years later is still terrified of dogs. Not saying Cailen will be fully attacked, but many of these things stay with them for life.

Re: Ugh - what are your thoughts on this (dog related) - long

i think the can was a great idea and i am really angry that your parents care more about your dogs being scared than Cailen being bitten. she hasn't broken the skin yet but what if she does? what then? are they going to blame Cailen?

i know you love this house but i'd seriously reconsider going with your parents again if this is how they are going to behave. that is so incredibly insensitive and potentially dangerous - it doesn't matter how small she is, if they don't discipline her now, when do they plan on starting? when she is fully grown and now thinks that biting all the time is okay?

Re: Ugh - what are your thoughts on this (dog related) - long

I am not a fan of dogs. i think your ds is of course the most important in this equation and I would request the dog be kept in a seperate room when your son is around

Re: Ugh - what are your thoughts on this (dog related) - long

I don't own a dog so maybe I'm not the best person to answer this. I had them as a child & adore them.

I consider all dogs are ultimately pack animals, it sounds that Lola thinks Cailen is the bottom of the pack. By refusing to discipline the puppy, it is reenforces it.

I think the coins in the jar is the perfect solution. I think you should tell your parents that even a puppy needs to be told what they did was wrong & biting Cailen means she gets closed off in another room or some kind of discipline they are comfortable with - otherwise, you cannot allow Cailen to continue to be nipped at by their dog with no consequences so either the coins are the solution or they handle it - and if not you will.

Re: Ugh - what are your thoughts on this (dog related) - long

Liza, if they don't like the can: Why not buy a muzzle for the dog? I will come and put it on!

Re: Ugh - what are your thoughts on this (dog related) - long

Instead of the coins in the can since it scares all the dogs, maybe try a spray bottle filled with water.

As for the nipping, it very well could be just puppydom and she might grow out of it. However, I wouldn't take a chance because it just takes once. Do your parents crate the dogs? Can they have Lola in the kitchen when Cailen is in the living room?

As for the fear, as he feels more empowered, that might lessen. You can also teach him how to give commands to the dogs or use his love of Spiderman or Transformers to make him feel more empowered.

Re: Ugh - what are your thoughts on this (dog related) - long

Thanks ladies - they are put in their crates, but Lola still growls at him from the crate. It's so sad because he is so gentle with dogs, he knows how to approach them, how to pet them - he always says hi to dogs at the park and if allowed, ets them and people always comment on how gentle he is. This really has messed him up. The problem with Cailen is he gets "stuck" on thoughts and nothing changes it - no matter what. He will even pet Lola when one of my parents is holding him, and she is fine, but as son as she is back on the floor, he is terrified again.

The thing is, we now share this house with my parents since my gma left if to us. I don't get a lot of time off and this house is the only place we really go away to, so this will be happening for a while.... My parents leave their dogs a lot with help so there is not a lot of attention given to them for discipline (I call them "octopups" because there are too many with no attention)

Re: Ugh - what are your thoughts on this (dog related) - long

I think the can is a good idea. Even if Lola is a puppy, they should be teaching her not to nip - even in play. If they let her do it now, she will continue to do it as she leaves puppyhood.
The can would be a good idea for them to use to get her trained.

Re: Ugh - what are your thoughts on this (dog related) - long

I think you have now made it a "you scare my kid, I'll scare yours" situation, and I don't think the kid or the dog deserves to be scared. I don't understand why your parents can't put the dog away somewhere else if it scares your child. At the end of the day, a dog is an animal, and your kid is a human. Humans win imo.

Whilst I do like the idea of empowering him with the can, but I don't think its fair in this situation. If your folks can't put the dog away when your son is around, well, I would think twice about going to stay with them until Cailen is feeling better about dogs. They should be teaching the dog not to nip, but imo a nip can turn into a bad bite, and a fear of dogs for a lifetime!

Re: Ugh - what are your thoughts on this (dog related) - long

Rachee - good point - I'm not doing this to scare Lola but to pair btiting him with an aversive sound which is something dog trainers do (because DH has been yelling at Lola and even kicking her away - not hard - but even a nudge is somehting I don't like to see happen to any dog)

They put her away a lot, but as soon as she is out she goes back to Cailen - I don't get it!

But this also goes into a lot of family issues - my stepmom is now trying to lay claim on this house now that gma is gone, and my dad never advocates for me and now for my child - but that is more for the relationship board. I am not going to be run out of this house that is so important to me

Re: Ugh - what are your thoughts on this (dog related) - long

I have a dog and as much as I love her, I would never tolerate her nipping my DS. THat is not okay! I can't believe your parents are not taking this more seriously. The dog may have never broke skin, but one day she could.

I think the can is a great idea. I used a can of pennies with my dog when she was a puppy. It worked great! Yes, it scares them, but that is the point. It stops them from doing something they shouldn't be doing. I got the tip from a dog trainer. They relate the uncomfortable noise with the behavior.

It sounds like these dogs have become like children to your parents, and that is how they are treating them.
I would be upset about my DS being scared of dogs too.
Maybe you can explain to your parents that because your DS is so scared of the dogs, it might be a good idea to not go to the house at the same time.

Message edited 9/7/2009 5:21:54 PM.

Re: Ugh - what are your thoughts on this (dog related) - long

You're not going to like this.
I think you need to stop going to the house while your parents are there. Yes, I know it means a lot to you. Yes, I know you don't have a lot of time for vacations. Yes, I know you want your child to be able to experience a place that is special to you, and grow his own memories.
BUT....the dog is not treating him nicely. And no matter what YOU want, you have to put that aside for the safety of your child. Your parents are not willing to make the dog stop, so you have to remove your child from the situation. Which really sucks. You don't want him to miss out on that, you want to be able to have vacations, and you want him to grow and continue to love animals. And that situation simply isn't the best circumstance for that. It's really unfortunate, but you have to take the emotions out of it, and do what is best for your child.

Re: Ugh - what are your thoughts on this (dog related) - long

I have and love dogs. Yes puppies nip, but they must be taught not to. I think you are doing all the right things and umm...scaring the dogs? what about scaring/hurting Cailen?

My two year old and five year old are definately dominant over my dog. They are never allowed to hurt him in anyway, but the dog must respect them or it is a bad situation and accident waiting to happen. For ex, My dog gets up when my two year old tells him to get off her dora couch. But we trained him to listen.

One thing you can do is have the puppy lay on his back belly up next to the baby. The baby can rub him with you protecting the baby. A truly dominant dog won't even want to roll over, but as a puppy you should force the issue.


Further never allow the puppey to be higher than Cailen in anyway. Never on the couch, while Cailen is on the floor. This teaches him that cailen is dominant. Never allow the dog to even lay his head on top of the baby's foot for the same reason. In fact the baby should stand over the dog laying a hand on him.

If possible have Cailen help feed the dog and call him to his food. Hand feeding is a good technique to prevent possessiveness in the dog.

The can is a great idea. GL.

Message edited 9/7/2009 8:43:26 PM.

Re: Ugh - what are your thoughts on this (dog related) - long

I know you said that Cailen does not change his mind easily but I have already seen my son go through several different phases with the dog, from being afraid to feeling more powerful than he should. I have never used the can thing but I have heard it is a good idea. I like the spray bottle but if I forget to put them away then the dog finds them and destroys them! Be careful. Dachshund can do damage with a bite even though they look harmless. I still love them and hope to see more pics of Cailen with the dogs as soon as this is resolved!

Re: Ugh - what are your thoughts on this (dog related) - long

That's terrible and I wouldn't stand for it.

If your GMA left the house to all of you-I would tell your parents that if you can't come together to work out this situation you're going to have to go to court to hammer out a schedule so you are never at the house together.