UPDATE Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

So Murray was "evicted" from Petco Grooming dept because he is too nasty. I cannot bring him back there. He has always been a bit nasty to them but last time they couldnt take it.

We have had agression issues with Murray in the past. He has bit me, my husband and my mother in law, making us all bleed, breaking skin and all!

We have seen the vet and a trainer speciallizing in agressive dogs. He is not allowed any priveleges. (no bed, no couch, has to work for a treat, etc) My husband and I just know how not to get bit. What scares me is that I am pregnant. He has never shown any agression towards children but when we have our own child I am scared Murray will consider this baby part of his pact and can become agressive toward the child.

I have no problem teaching my child boundaries (when the dog is eating/sleeping you leave him alone) but i dont want to live in constant fear of him attacking my child.

I just feel like I am an idiot for justifying keeping the dog and not sure if having him around is the right decision. I cant even imagine giving him up. I spoke with an animal shelter and they will not adopt out an aggressive dog, so he would be put down.

Just not sure what to do


Update -

Chris from Mutt Manners came for the free in home evaluation. I really liked him and am confident that he can help us. We are going back to basic obedience and such just to enforce our voices more and get Murray to listen to us. This overall should help with his agression issues.

I am excited to begin!

Message edited 1/11/2008 8:55:44 PM.

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

You mentioned a trainer, what did the trainer say? Is it possible to see a trainer who specializes in aggressive dogs?

We have some issues with our dog in that she is extrememly timid and has shown signs of aggression when she feels cornered. We are currently working with a trainer to try to get her through this issue. She has never shown any aggression toward our DD, but I would never trust her near DD.

After the incident in LI this past week with that dog killing the baby, I would err on the side of caution. If/when you feel that your child is not safe, then the dog should go. I've told my husband and our trainer the first time she shows any aggression to our baby-she goes. We have a home for her if it ever got to that though.

I know you'll get some pretty passionate responses to your question~ but first and foremost, you owe it to your child to keep him/her out of harms way.

GL

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

I would most definitely get another trainer...someone like BarkBusters or MuttManners who have an excellent reputation and whatever it costs....do their program now.
Don't wait until the baby is born...do it now when you have the time to spend with him.
Good luck!!

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

There was an article in Newsday today about this.

You can't teach a newborn boundaries. So I would also recommend getting a new trainer NOW.

That being said - every dog has his or her own personality and no amount of training will change that. When you have that baby you will realize how important his/her safety is to you. Keeping your child safe will be your no. 1 priority.

Good luck...I hope you can find an animal behaviorist to help.

www.animalbehaviorists.org

Oops the link for member listings isn't working. Best Friend's Dog Training (www.muttmanners.com) has a few animal behaviorists on staff.

Message edited 1/6/2008 2:03:16 PM.

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

Crazy thing is , is that I just got my certification to be a dog obedience trainer but we do not specialize in agression. so I dont know much about it as far as training. But have done a TON of research.

the trainer that we used barely helped and I was surprised because she was highly recommended by a couple of people at the animal shelter I worked at briefly. It was $100 for a consultation at her office with Murray. Now - I told her he would not be agressive out of his element , instead would be excited to be around new people. So of course, he was perfectly behaved. She gave us some tips on his jumping & humping, but then kept contradicting herself. It was just very awkward. A couple of days later, he bit me , I called her and she never returned my phone call.

Basic obedience, Murray is fine. I can walk him off leash , and basically every other command he is good. But he just snaps sometimes and its scary.

I am going to look into another trainer. I just hope its not $$$$$.

Message edited 1/6/2008 2:51:27 PM.

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

That's why an animal behaviorist (as opposed to trainer) SHOULD be able to help you - I would say the woman you went to wasn't the best around.

Good luck!

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

I would get a trainer in ASAP.

We had tons of agression issues with Molly when she was alive - she literally thought she was the boss of this house (and she was only 13lbs) - and we spoke to a few trainers who def. could have helped the situation.

I called both Mutt Manners and Bark Busters - but I was nine months pregnant and due anyday. I decided to wait until the baby was born to see how Molly was with him. I did - she pretty much ignored him the entire time. BUT - there were times she would snap at him when we were holding him - and times where we were nervous.

Unfortunately - Molly died so we never had to deal with anything. It's only now - that we have a new puppy - do we realize how agressive Molly really was. This new pup loves the baby to pieces and would never ever snap at him.

I'm not sure how far along you are but I have to say - call both of those trainers - they will DEF. be able to help you.

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

ok, left messages for both bark busters and mutt manners. I like the fact that mutts manners does a free evaluation. Wish me luck!

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

We ysed a trainer that charges $50 a visit, very good, in Nassau County will come ot your home. Let me know if you are interested.

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

Message edited 1/13/2008 3:08:35 PM.

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

usually its when he is "cranky' . last year I was in a car accident and DH and I were gone for hours so we asked my MIL to go and let him out. He was layng on the bed (before we took that priveledge away) and she went to pet him and he bit her.

He bit me one morning when he was laying in his bed and I went to lay with him just to say good morning. I put my face up next to his to give him a kiss on his nose and he flew at my face but got my hand!

Last night I was sitting on the rug and i wanted him to come lay with me so I tapped him and called him and he snapped at me

And if we ever, ever go near his paws , forget it, he'll take our arm off.

He used to go under the bed with forbidden objects or just to sleep and if we tried to get him out he would bite. We had to nail wood to our bed on the bottom so he cant get under there anymore!

He bit DH when he pet him while I guess Murray was trying to sleep!

I cant think of every incident. We did bring him to the vet to have him checked out and he got a clean bill of health. He usually snaps instead of bites. We are at the point where we just know how not to get bit but its going to be tough with a baby around.

ETA I would never leave a young child alone with a dog but I want Murray to love this child and love playing with the baby. But instead I feel like I hae to worry abot him being around when the baby is crawling/walking around

Message edited 1/7/2008 11:20:03 AM.

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

Message edited 1/7/2008 8:14:31 PM.

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

no! I am in Suffolk. would she go out there you think? How many sessions did she do?

Mutt Manners is coming over friday night for the free evalutation. So they will give us prices also.

Message edited 1/7/2008 11:38:45 AM.

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

she might but not sure. I will FM you her info. She came recommended from another friend and we loved her. She did many tests with my dog b/c we too were worried he was "aggressive" and might harm a child. She assured us he was a brat, not a killer (not that any dog can be trusted 100% but some dogs are more likely than others)...

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

i have to be honest about my opinion here and I hope I don't get flamed.

We have a very active and slightly on the wild side toddler. He runs around and we do our best to "discipline" him but he is only 13 months old.

Our dogs are great with him.

However, Tally has snapped at him once- not touching him, when he came up upon her while she is resting. But, he feeds her and she gives him kisses all of the time. She has never shown aggression to anyone - even strangers- in any other way. Therefore, Matty will NEVER be in the room with her alone. That is WAY easier said than done with an active toddler. Its a lot of work to ensure that.

If your dog really has snapped at people at other times, I feel that it is dangerous for you to have the dog in the house with the baby. I am no expert but if the dog has snapped at you and DH, it sounds kind of serious to me. Training will improve the dog's behavior but there are no guarantees. It is VERY hard with a toddler. Personally, if I had a dog that showed aggression to others- adults, not even children, then I would think really hard about having a baby in the house with them at all. When they are immobile infants it is easier- with a toddler it is a whole different ball game.

I'm sorry to be negative, its something I have thought about a lot.

Right now, if Tally acts out again, my parents will give her a good home.

Message edited 1/7/2008 4:03:19 PM.

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

Posted by casey31

i have to be honest about my opinion here and I hope I don't get flamed.

We have a very active and slightly on the wild side toddler. He runs around and we do our best to "discipline" him but he is only 13 months old.

Our dogs are great with him.

However, Tally has snapped at him once- not touching him, when he came up upon her while she is resting. But, he feeds her and she gives him kisses all of the time. She has never shown aggression to anyone - even strangers- in any other way. Therefore, Matty will NEVER be in the room with her alone. That is WAY easier said than done with an active toddler. Its a lot of work to ensure that.

If your dog really has snapped at people at other times, I feel that it is dangerous for you to have the dog in the house with the baby. I am no expert but if the dog has snapped at you and DH, it sounds kind of serious to me. Training will improve the dog's behavior but there are no guarantees. It is VERY hard with a toddler. Personally, if I had a dog that showed aggression to others- adults, not even children, then I would think really hard about having a baby in the house with them at all. When they are immobile infants it is easier- with a toddler it is a whole different ball game.

I'm sorry to be negative, its something I have thought about a lot.

Right now, if Tally acts out again, my parents will give her a good home.

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

I completely understand your concerns but the term "getting rid of" is terrible. As someone involved in rescue we hear it all the time. There is an organization called the Mayor's Alliance for NYC Animals, Inc. If and when the time comes to "rehome" your dog, I suggest you contact this organization and ask that an email be sent out to participating members. Small breed rescues may be interested in pulling him. There are many small dogs that have issues, he is not the first and will not be the last.

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

I think definitely get a trainer and see what they say- I would also see if friends or family members would be available to "foster" the dog for a year or so while the baby is in the crawler/active toddler stage.

I have to say, this dog's aggression sounds pretty serious- she said the dog tried to bite her in the face and if they touch its paws it would try and bite them.

I have to say- if my dog was this aggressive to me and DH I don't know if I would trust a trainer that tells me its correctable- not with my baby.

I personally would get the dog trained and then do my best- between now and when the baby starts crawling to find a friend or relative to take the dog for a year or so- to me, the dog sounds very territorial.

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

no one will take him because they know of his issues. We have had a lot of patience with this dog. Friends/Family have told us to give him up a long time ago but we can't. Hes my dog and I love him. I am hoping with the proper training he can really become a better companion. Although he has the above issues, on the other hand he follows me everywhere I go, sleeps in our bedroom on the floor next to our bed and does truly love us, hes just a little wacko!

I have spoken with animal shelters and rescue organizations for advice and all have told me they would not adopt out an aggressive dog.

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

I'm so sorry you are going through this.

See how he does with the trainer. You have time to evaluate- the baby won't crawl until at least 6/7/8 months.

go with your gut/instinct and see how comfortable you feel and how much you trust him at that point.

Think about how you can arrange the house so that they are in primarily different rooms.

I hope you find a solution you are comfortable with.

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

Posted by casey31

Think about how you can arrange the house so that they are in primarily different rooms.

I hope you find a solution you are comfortable with.

Re: Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

Posted by DeniseMarie

no one will take him because they know of his issues. We have had a lot of patience with this dog. Friends/Family have told us to give him up a long time ago but we can't. Hes my dog and I love him. I am hoping with the proper training he can really become a better companion. Although he has the above issues, on the other hand he follows me everywhere I go, sleeps in our bedroom on the floor next to our bed and does truly love us, hes just a little wacko!

I have spoken with animal shelters and rescue organizations for advice and all have told me they would not adopt out an aggressive dog.

Re: UPDATE Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. (agression related)

bump for update