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Update: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
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strongisland
All you need is love
Member since 8/07 2474 total posts
Name:
T
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Update: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
Poor dog :( sometimes these PO are trigger happy--Ive read one too many stories of PO's shooting/killing dogs with no just cause
**disclaimer**this is not a 'dig' against all PO--just the ones that are trigger happy
just trying to spread a little awareness as to what goes on
Baby Girl S.N.A.R.R. rescue dog
UPDATE:
very sad to report that Baby Girl died today---I am sick, I am mad, I feel so helpless. THis poor dog was pulled off death row -had a great home and now faced death again :( Poor dog-heartbreaking
Please sign the change.org petition!
Baby Girl
Message edited 4/12/2013 6:43:34 PM.
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Posted 4/7/13 4:19 PM  |
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lbride
Lovin' my mini man!
Member since 3/07 2475 total posts
Name:
Lisa
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Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
according to other articles, all three of the dogs were unleashed, 2 of them fighting.... I feel terrible for the dog involved, but I personally can't stand people who walk their dogs without a leash, especially in public places. There was another dog shot recently who was walking through a street fair unleashed and it bit the owner after it started fighting with another dog....
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| Posted 4/7/13 11:07 PM |
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strongisland
All you need is love
Member since 8/07 2474 total posts
Name:
T
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Re: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
Posted by lbride
according to other articles, all three of the dogs were unleashed, 2 of them fighting.... I feel terrible for the dog involved, but I personally can't stand people who walk their dogs without a leash, especially in public places. There was another dog shot recently who was walking through a street fair unleashed and it bit the owner after it started fighting with another dog....
See, I only read that the dog that was shot was unleashed?
I do not go for unleashed dogs either--for the safety of the dog and everyone else.
All 3 dogs belonged to the same owner--I wonder what's gonna happen
But, I also can't believe the PO open fired in a park at a dog running away from them--I think the PO needed to be more careful opeing fire like that at a park. and then trying to cover it up---that's bad :( poor dog--I hope the dog makes it.
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| Posted 4/8/13 8:25 AM |
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strongisland
All you need is love
Member since 8/07 2474 total posts
Name:
T
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Re: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
Posted by lbride
according to other articles, all three of the dogs were unleashed, 2 of them fighting.... I feel terrible for the dog involved, but I personally can't stand people who walk their dogs without a leash, especially in public places. There was another dog shot recently who was walking through a street fair unleashed and it bit the owner after it started fighting with another dog....
I'd like to read the other articles--can you post the links?
I also read that the media is publishing false info. This dog was originally from a very reputable rescue--they are trying to get the truth out there.
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| Posted 4/8/13 9:54 AM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
Posted by strongisland
Posted by lbride
according to other articles, all three of the dogs were unleashed, 2 of them fighting.... I feel terrible for the dog involved, but I personally can't stand people who walk their dogs without a leash, especially in public places. There was another dog shot recently who was walking through a street fair unleashed and it bit the owner after it started fighting with another dog....
I'd like to read the other articles--can you post the links?
I also read that the media is publishing false info. This dog was originally from a very reputable rescue--they are trying to get the truth out there.
+
Article with interview of the dog's owner and her sister, who were walking the dogs. If their account is true, then the cop who opened fire on the dogs and THEM needs to be reprimanded.
http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2013/04/pit_bulls_owner_says_dog_was_c.html
Another article, states the dogs were shot with tranqs which is incorrect http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/04/06/police-shoot-down-pit-bull-after-girl-is-attacked-on-staten-island/
I feel awful for the dogs and the owner. Cops need more training in regards to dogs and dealing with them. It seems like an overreaction to open fire on them if things were calm or the dogs were running away. But I can also see a cop who is uneducated about dog behavior feeling that the dog was just a danger since it was running and had potentially bitten someone, she may have felt she was protecting the greater good. But if it is true that events unfolded as SNARR reports then the lies that followed sit funny with me, almost like she was trying to cover up what she'd done.
BUT, the owner DOES have her fair share of culpability in this disaster though. This shouldn't have happened to begin with. NONE of the dogs should be off leash, regardless of how well behaved she believes them to be. Yes, I have a pit bull type dog and I did a lot of research here and elsewhere before adopting. I don't proclaim to be an expert, but I do believe the reputable sources I've obtained information from who tell me YES, they ARE still pit bulls. They are still terriers. I know that dog aggression, prey drive, and human aggression are not the same things. The dog aggression/prey drive that was bred into them generations ago can not be undone simply by love. It can only be managed by a responsible owner. It's the same as expecting a greyhound not to run because it wasn't a racer or expecting a border collie not to herd because it's always been a house pet. It is instinctual. Responsible pit bull type dog owners know better than to let multiple dogs run off leash like they did. Even if nothing ever happens or your dog is well behaved and listens, there is always the chance of another dog/animal challenging your dog. The pit may not start the fight, but it likely will finish it.
People make enough assumptions about pit bulls as it is, owners who pretend that love can cure dog aggression or instinctual terrier tendencies and allow instances like this to happen only perpetuate stereotypes. And since the articles report witness routinely seeing the dogs off leash, this is more than a single lapse in judgment. The best way I've had it said to me is "always expect a pit bull to fight". Not because the dog is maniacal or anything, but because it is natural instinct for them to fight, especially when it comes to defending itself. And, regardless of how it starts or what really happens, it will always be the pit's fault in the court of public opinion. So a little extra caution is not a bad thing, especially when you consider cases like Ghost, the pit bull who defended himself and his owner while ON leash against a dog who'd broken free from his chain/tie out only to be proclaimed a vicious dog (thankfully overturned by more rational minds, but just goes to show people will blame the breed even when it's not at fault. If Ghost's owner didn't have her dog in a harness on a leash it likely wouldn't have mattered who started the incident or that the other dog broke free )Ghost
All in all, it was a preventable tragedy on both sides.
Message edited 4/8/2013 1:09:41 PM.
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| Posted 4/8/13 1:04 PM |
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halfbaked
LIF Adult
Member since 8/12 6937 total posts
Name:
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Re: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
Posted by tara73
Posted by strongisland
Posted by lbride
according to other articles, all three of the dogs were unleashed, 2 of them fighting.... I feel terrible for the dog involved, but I personally can't stand people who walk their dogs without a leash, especially in public places. There was another dog shot recently who was walking through a street fair unleashed and it bit the owner after it started fighting with another dog....
I'd like to read the other articles--can you post the links?
I also read that the media is publishing false info. This dog was originally from a very reputable rescue--they are trying to get the truth out there.
+
Article with interview of the dog's owner and her sister, who were walking the dogs. If their account is true, then the cop who opened fire on the dogs and THEM needs to be reprimanded.
http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2013/04/pit_bulls_owner_says_dog_was_c.html
Another article, states the dogs were shot with tranqs which is incorrect http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/04/06/police-shoot-down-pit-bull-after-girl-is-attacked-on-staten-island/
I feel awful for the dogs and the owner. Cops need more training in regards to dogs and dealing with them. It seems like an overreaction to open fire on them if things were calm or the dogs were running away. But I can also see a cop who is uneducated about dog behavior feeling that the dog was just a danger since it was running and had potentially bitten someone, she may have felt she was protecting the greater good. But if it is true that events unfolded as SNARR reports then the lies that followed sit funny with me, almost like she was trying to cover up what she'd done.
BUT, the owner DOES have her fair share of culpability in this disaster though. This shouldn't have happened to begin with. NONE of the dogs should be off leash, regardless of how well behaved she believes them to be. Yes, I have a pit bull type dog and I did a lot of research here and elsewhere before adopting. I don't proclaim to be an expert, but I do believe the reputable sources I've obtained information from who tell me YES, they ARE still pit bulls. They are still terriers. I know that dog aggression, prey drive, and human aggression are not the same things. The dog aggression/prey drive that was bred into them generations ago can not be undone simply by love. It can only be managed by a responsible owner. It's the same as expecting a greyhound not to run because it wasn't a racer or expecting a border collie not to herd because it's always been a house pet. It is instinctual. Responsible pit bull type dog owners know better than to let multiple dogs run off leash like they did. Even if nothing ever happens or your dog is well behaved and listens, there is always the chance of another dog/animal challenging your dog. The pit may not start the fight, but it likely will finish it.
People make enough assumptions about pit bulls as it is, owners who pretend that love can cure dog aggression or instinctual terrier tendencies and allow instances like this to happen only perpetuate stereotypes. And since the articles report witness routinely seeing the dogs off leash, this is more than a single lapse in judgment. The best way I've had it said to me is "always expect a pit bull to fight". Not because the dog is maniacal or anything, but because it is natural instinct for them to fight, especially when it comes to defending itself. And, regardless of how it starts or what really happens, it will always be the pit's fault in the court of public opinion. So a little extra caution is not a bad thing, especially when you consider cases like Ghost, the pit bull who defended himself and his owner while ON leash against a dog who'd broken free from his chain/tie out only to be proclaimed a vicious dog (thankfully overturned by more rational minds, but just goes to show people will blame the breed even when it's not at fault. If Ghost's owner didn't have her dog in a harness on a leash it likely wouldn't have mattered who started the incident or that the other dog broke free )Ghost
All in all, it was a preventable tragedy on both sides.
This was VERY well said. I don't think any type of dog should be off leash, for their own safety (in fact, I just made another post about it!), but pit bulls in particular. My pit is the nicest, sweetest thing... with people. She's rough with other dogs and is VERY driven to attack prey- every bird or squirrel we pass is fair game. I don't think that makes her a VICIOUS dog, but I wouldn't let her run off leash with a bunch of other unknown dogs, I'm even careful letting her and our other dog play together. I watch them constantly.
But to open fire in a park with families, is just a gross overreaction. Would they have done it to a person fleeing the scene or would they have pursued them?
ETA: I never read that story about Ghost, thank you for sharing! 
Message edited 4/8/2013 1:16:35 PM.
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| Posted 4/8/13 1:16 PM |
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strongisland
All you need is love
Member since 8/07 2474 total posts
Name:
T
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Re: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
Updated in first post :(
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| Posted 4/11/13 7:52 PM |
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Traysee
LIF Adolescent
Member since 12/10 652 total posts
Name:
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Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
While I do totally agree that pits do not belong in dog parks because of their dog aggressiveness, they were in a public dog-friendly park with an "unofficial" off leash area where lots of the dogs are not leashed. The cops that shot this dog, shot her while she was running away and then they hid her in the police van while she was still alive. The owner of this dog is a cop herself.
The bottom line, if this was a lab running loose in the park it would not have been shot and if it was shot it would have had a whole lot more sympathy and a whole lot less debate.
From one SNARR rescued dog family to another, rest in peace Baby Girl.
Message edited 4/11/2013 7:58:53 PM.
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| Posted 4/11/13 7:54 PM |
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strongisland
All you need is love
Member since 8/07 2474 total posts
Name:
T
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Re: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
Posted by Traysee
While I do totally agree that pits do not belong in dog parks because of their dog aggressiveness, they were in a public dog-friendly park with an "unofficial" off leash area where lots of the dogs are not leashed. The cops that shot this dog, shot her while she was running away and then they hid her in the police van while she was still alive. The owner of this dog is a cop herself.
The bottom line, if this was a lab running loose in the park it would not have been shot and if it was shot it would have had a whole lot more sympathy and a whole lot less debate.
From one SNARR rescued dog family to another, rest in peace Baby Girl.
It's so disgusting that they hid her---i hope justice will be served---I totally agree that she was shot bc she was a pit--no doubt about it
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| Posted 4/11/13 8:13 PM |
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Mushesgirl
Too blessed to be stressed
Member since 4/09 6691 total posts
Name:
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Re: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
Omg horrible
I know someone who lets their dog off a leash regularly here in queens. I know something will happen to this poor dog eventually. Stupid fking owners
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| Posted 4/11/13 10:22 PM |
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guyinblue
LIF Infant
Member since 12/09 107 total posts
Name:
Matt
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Re: Update: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
Posted by strongisland
Poor dog :( sometimes these PO are trigger happy--Ive read one too many stories of PO's shooting/killing dogs with no just cause
**disclaimer**this is not a 'dig' against all PO--just the ones that are trigger happy
just trying to spread a little awareness as to what goes on
Baby Girl S.N.A.R.R. rescue dog
UPDATE:
very sad to report that Baby Girl died today---I am sick, I am mad, I feel so helpless. THis poor dog was pulled off death row -had a great home and now faced death again :( Poor dog-heartbreaking
Please sign the change.org petition!
Baby Girl
Sorry, but I am highly irritated by your post. Your "facts" are completely wrong. The story posted is NOT what actually happened. More importantly, it is disturbing that you assumed them to be factual and accurate simply because you read it somewhere. What's worse is that you then jump to the conclusion from that false assumption that some cops are trigger happy and kill dogs with no just cause. Do you know the training that we go through? Do you know what "just cause" is in that particular situation? Were you there at the scene or get the story firsthand from someone that was? If you answered no to any of those questions, you definitely should not presume to know what's right or wrong in a situation like that when you don't even have a factually accurate story. Instead, you publish a petition that makes false accusations about a story that you just "read".
As an emphatic animal lover, and cop, I believe your post is totally unwarranted as written..... "just trying to spread some awareness...."
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| Posted 4/12/13 8:46 PM |
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lbride
Lovin' my mini man!
Member since 3/07 2475 total posts
Name:
Lisa
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Re: Update: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
Posted by strongisland
Posted by Traysee
While I do totally agree that pits do not belong in dog parks because of their dog aggressiveness, they were in a public dog-friendly park with an "unofficial" off leash area where lots of the dogs are not leashed. The cops that shot this dog, shot her while she was running away and then they hid her in the police van while she was still alive. The owner of this dog is a cop herself.
The bottom line, if this was a lab running loose in the park it would not have been shot and if it was shot it would have had a whole lot more sympathy and a whole lot less debate.
From one SNARR rescued dog family to another, rest in peace Baby Girl.
It's so disgusting that they hid her---i hope justice will be served---I totally agree that she was shot bc she was a pit--no doubt about it
There would be no debate if the owner was responsible and leashed ALL of her dogs. These are animals, with natural instincts. We cannot predict their reactions to any situation, regardless of their breed. I have a large dog and while I have a lot of trust in her, I would never trust her strength, size, or instincts without my control - contro,l in my opinion, is a leash in public .
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| Posted 4/12/13 8:59 PM |
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strongisland
All you need is love
Member since 8/07 2474 total posts
Name:
T
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Re: Update: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
Posted by guyinblue
Posted by strongisland
Poor dog :( sometimes these PO are trigger happy--Ive read one too many stories of PO's shooting/killing dogs with no just cause
**disclaimer**this is not a 'dig' against all PO--just the ones that are trigger happy
just trying to spread a little awareness as to what goes on
Baby Girl S.N.A.R.R. rescue dog
UPDATE:
very sad to report that Baby Girl died today---I am sick, I am mad, I feel so helpless. THis poor dog was pulled off death row -had a great home and now faced death again :( Poor dog-heartbreaking
Please sign the change.org petition!
Baby Girl
Sorry, but I am highly irritated by your post. Your "facts" are completely wrong. The story posted is NOT what actually happened. More importantly, it is disturbing that you assumed them to be factual and accurate simply because you read it somewhere. What's worse is that you then jump to the conclusion from that false assumption that some cops are trigger happy and kill dogs with no just cause. Do you know the training that we go through? Do you know what "just cause" is in that particular situation? Were you there at the scene or get the story firsthand from someone that was? If you answered no to any of those questions, you definitely should not presume to know what's right or wrong in a situation like that when you don't even have a factually accurate story. Instead, you publish a petition that makes false accusations about a story that you just "read".
As an emphatic animal lover, and cop, I believe your post is totally unwarranted as written..... "just trying to spread some awareness...."
im glad that you are irritated 
reread my first post and then get back to me
if you know what happened---please share-
what story do you know?--please share the facts that you know--I'm willing to read more--give me what you got!
--also know that this cop had her gun taken away once before and note, that one of the people with the dog owner was a COP telling the shooting cop to stop! this wasn't a post bashing cops--i have many friends/family that are cops-i'm not like that---i am an animal lover and i feel terrible about this situation that wasn't necessary....as far as training goes, this cop should have known better that to open fire in a park at a dog running in the opposite direction!!!
note the entry and exit wounds of the bullet in the dog--the dog was running away--how do you explain that? Are you trained to shoot a dog that is running away? in an open park?
there are great cops out there and there are ones that suck--that goes for every profession---IMO, this cop sucks! Take the dog out of the equation, how do you explain her opening fire in a park? Is that part of your training?
I am spreading awareness bc this does, in fact exist--don't turn a blind eye to it just bc you are a cop.
Just so I'm clear since you questioned my facts:
Fact: She opened fire in a park
Fact: The bullet entry and exit show that the dog was running away
Fact: She made a dangerous situation for all those in the park-what if she hit a kid?
Fact: you stated that my post was inaccurate BUT you didn't state any facts yourself! If you know the truth bc you WERE there ;)-share! Just like you asked me if I was there---were you? How do you know my 'facts' are false?<----I guess it's bc you WERE there??
not sure what you would say about this story?click
Or Star the Pitbull shot by NYPD
Star was protecting her owner who was having a seizure--couldn't they have used a tranq instead of a bullet? Thankfully she survived---
Message edited 4/12/2013 10:28:39 PM.
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| Posted 4/12/13 9:38 PM |
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strongisland
All you need is love
Member since 8/07 2474 total posts
Name:
T
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Re: Update: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
Posted by lbride
Posted by strongisland
Posted by Traysee
While I do totally agree that pits do not belong in dog parks because of their dog aggressiveness, they were in a public dog-friendly park with an "unofficial" off leash area where lots of the dogs are not leashed. The cops that shot this dog, shot her while she was running away and then they hid her in the police van while she was still alive. The owner of this dog is a cop herself.
The bottom line, if this was a lab running loose in the park it would not have been shot and if it was shot it would have had a whole lot more sympathy and a whole lot less debate.
From one SNARR rescued dog family to another, rest in peace Baby Girl.
It's so disgusting that they hid her---i hope justice will be served---I totally agree that she was shot bc she was a pit--no doubt about it
There would be no debate if the owner was responsible and leashed ALL of her dogs. These are animals, with natural instincts. We cannot predict their reactions to any situation, regardless of their breed. I have a large dog and while I have a lot of trust in her, I would never trust her strength, size, or instincts without my control - contro,l in my opinion, is a leash in public .
Totally agree w/leashing your dog--especially one that gets a bad rap. I wished the dog was leashed so that this would not have happened :(
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| Posted 4/12/13 9:43 PM |
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guyinblue
LIF Infant
Member since 12/09 107 total posts
Name:
Matt
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Re: Update: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
Posted by strongisland
Posted by guyinblue
Posted by strongisland
Poor dog :( sometimes these PO are trigger happy--Ive read one too many stories of PO's shooting/killing dogs with no just cause
**disclaimer**this is not a 'dig' against all PO--just the ones that are trigger happy
just trying to spread a little awareness as to what goes on
Baby Girl S.N.A.R.R. rescue dog
UPDATE:
very sad to report that Baby Girl died today---I am sick, I am mad, I feel so helpless. THis poor dog was pulled off death row -had a great home and now faced death again :( Poor dog-heartbreaking
Please sign the change.org petition!
Baby Girl
Sorry, but I am highly irritated by your post. Your "facts" are completely wrong. The story posted is NOT what actually happened. More importantly, it is disturbing that you assumed them to be factual and accurate simply because you read it somewhere. What's worse is that you then jump to the conclusion from that false assumption that some cops are trigger happy and kill dogs with no just cause. Do you know the training that we go through? Do you know what "just cause" is in that particular situation? Were you there at the scene or get the story firsthand from someone that was? If you answered no to any of those questions, you definitely should not presume to know what's right or wrong in a situation like that when you don't even have a factually accurate story. Instead, you publish a petition that makes false accusations about a story that you just "read".
As an emphatic animal lover, and cop, I believe your post is totally unwarranted as written..... "just trying to spread some awareness...."
im glad that you are irritated
reread my first post and then get back to me
if you know what happened---please share-
what story do you know?--please share the facts that you know--I'm willing to read more--give me what you got!
--also know that this cop had her gun taken away once before and note, that one of the people with the dog owner was a COP telling the shooting cop to stop! this wasn't a post bashing cops--i have many friends/family that are cops-i'm not like that---i am an animal lover and i feel terrible about this situation that wasn't necessary....as far as training goes, this cop should have known better that to open fire in a park at a dog running in the opposite direction!!!
note the entry and exit wounds of the bullet in the dog--the dog was running away--how do you explain that? Are you trained to shoot a dog that is running away? in an open park?
there are great cops out there and there are ones that suck--that goes for every profession---IMO, this cop sucks! Take the dog out of the equation, how do you explain her opening fire in a park? Is that part of your training?
I am spreading awareness bc this does, in fact exist--don't turn a blind eye to it just bc you are a cop.
Just so I'm clear since you questioned my facts:
Fact: She opened fire in a park
Fact: The bullet entry and exit show that the dog was running away
Fact: She made a dangerous situation for all those in the park-what if she hit a kid?
Fact: you stated that my post was inaccurate BUT you didn't state any facts yourself! If you know the truth bc you WERE there ;)-share! Just like you asked me if I was there---were you? How do you know my 'facts' are false?<----I guess it's bc you WERE there??
not sure what you would say about this story?click
Or Star the Pitbull shot by NYPD
Star was protecting her owner who was having a seizure--couldn't they have used a tranq instead of a bullet? Thankfully she survived---
While I cannot and will not comment about an ongoing police investigation, nor can I comment on whether I was there (get the point?) I will give you these publicly known FACTS:
1. The dog was NOT running away - in FACT it had lunged to bite.
2. The off-duty cop ALSO discharged their firearm. Guess you didn't know that???
3. Yes we ARE trained to shoot at animals in order to save our own ass or the ass of someone else, when danger of physical injury from the animal is imminent and there is no alternative.
Until you've walk in those BIG SHOES and made split second life-changing decisions, you're better off keeping your comments to yourself and not Monday morning quarterback the events of those who risk their lives every day protecting you. Trust in the FACT that we trained extremely well, and if something does go wrong despite that training, it is handled properly and NOT covered up.
And by the way, I totally AGREE with your assessment that there are good and bad in every profession, including cops....however, this is just simply NOT one of those cases.
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| Posted 4/13/13 12:39 PM |
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Traysee
LIF Adolescent
Member since 12/10 652 total posts
Name:
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Re: Update: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
Yeah, it's horribly sad.
I don't know, I got the impression that the owners bring their dogs to that park frequently. It was not like they were loose on the street. The park does not officially allow off leashed dogs (I am assuming they are not allowed off leash because it's not fenced in which was why Baby Girl was able to run away) I think the park must look the other way about dogs being off leash though since many owners who go to that park have their dogs off leash.
The fight happened between the owners other two dogs. Dogs frequently get into fights at dog parks. It's common, you accept that risk when you go to a dog park.
I think why I keep going back to that is because I feel like the dog was in a DOG AREA of the park not out on the streets. And as a dog owner I am sure many of us have had our dogs get out of our yard or get away from us at one time or another. People trip and drop a leash, landscapers forget to close a gate. It happens, dogs get out. Growing up most of the people I know had their dogs off leash. It's only been the last 15-20 years or so that leash laws have been enforced. I do not let my dogs off leash, but I would hope that if my dogs got out loose they wouldn't be shot because they were running down the block. That is insane.
As far as I am concerned since one of the people who was actually with the dogs involved is ALSO A COP you would think their account of what happened would count for something. My rescue group (SNARR) is the one that placed Baby Girl with that owner. They are the ones going public about what happened. They are getting their information FIRST HAND from the owner and the COP that was there with the dogs and witnessed this.
I personally have seen first hand cops overreact. Not all people are animal lovers. The majority of the cops I know personally or have had contact with seem to be so negative and so suspicious of everything, they always assume the worst. I guess that is from having to only deal with the worst in society. I watch cops take liberties and break laws all day long. Some cops become cops because they truly want to help people but there are lots of cops that do it because they want to be in control.
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| Posted 4/13/13 2:21 PM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Update: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
You know, I always say that there are multiple sides to every story: the sides of those involved, the witnesses, and the truth.
We will likely never know with 100% certainty what happened in the park, but there are things we can learn from it and use to prevent another tragedy like this from occurring.
Cops need training to deal with dogs. UPS, FedEx, meter readers, USPS all receive comprehensive training on dealing with dogs and aggression etc but based on the increasing reports of cops shooting dogs, it doesn't seem like cops get much training (except shoot first, ask questions later).
Owners of dogs, especially bully breeds, need to make sure they are being responsible owners and leashing their dogs. Owners of bully breeds, rotties, dobies, GSD's and other dogs commonly referred to as vicious should be taking those extra precautions because of the stigmas attached to them. I am well aware that if something were to ever happen, my dog is going to be the one blamed simply based on her appearance. Shelters and rescue groups would benefit these dogs more by explaining to prospective adopters that they should never allow their dogs off leash and should refer to instances like this.
That's not to say that if Baby Girl was leashed or if the cop was trained better in dog behavior that this incident still may not have occurred (like Traysee noted, sometimes a dog can slip away from it's handler) but it may have had a different outcome. But, there are a lot of questions that need to be answered, such as why the cop didn't try macing the dog if she felt it was a threat or why the cops opted to hide Baby Girl preventing her from getting treatment. It also needs to be addressed if this officer actually did open fire towards the dogs with the two handlers present. THAT is another piece of information that I find especially troublesome. If you're protecting a person who is supposedly being attacked do you fire your weapon blindly towards them from a distance or approach closer first?
And, Guyinblue, I am not a cop basher at all, but the story from the police doesn't add up IMHO. Maybe if this cop hadn't had a prior incident involving irresponsibility with her service weapon or maybe if one of the dog's handlers wasn't also a cop, I would be more inclined to believe the "official" story. But, something is most definitely off with the conflicting stories from the handlers, the NYPD, and witness reports.
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| Posted 4/13/13 3:24 PM |
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lbride
Lovin' my mini man!
Member since 3/07 2475 total posts
Name:
Lisa
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Update: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
just because there were a few published reports of cops shooting dogs doesn't mean we should all assume that they do no receive training in how to deal with dogs.
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| Posted 4/14/13 8:25 AM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: Update: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
Posted by lbride
just because there were a few published reports of cops shooting dogs doesn't mean we should all assume that they do no receive training in how to deal with dogs.
So, what training do cops receive to use non lethal methods? There are no reports that the officer in question attempted mace or other methods first.
And if they receive comprehensive training in dog behavior and non lethal methods, then why are we hearing more and more about dogs who were not being aggressive being shot by police?
If police receive enough training, why is the entire state of Colorado is working to pass a law to mandate police training in dog behavior and non lethal methods?
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| Posted 4/14/13 10:20 AM |
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guyinblue
LIF Infant
Member since 12/09 107 total posts
Name:
Matt
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Re: Update: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
Not sure you all understand the problem....
We are literally speaking about split-second decisions here. There is absolutely no time for "escalation of force" as you suggest. When an animal (who doesn't understand police commands to stop) with a jaw bite force in some cases of up to 3 times that of a human is charging or lunging at you or someone else, you take IMMEDIATE action. Patrol officers in the city do not carry Tasers, and pepper spray is not always effective on an animal that has become highly aggressive (not something you want to find out when the animal is 10 feet away from you running at you or someone else at a speed of 30 MPH). If anyone is brave enough to try this, see what your reaction would be….not fun. This is not the movies or fantasy land where we can shoot a warning shot or take aim and shoot the dogs paw to scare it. As an avid animal lover, and cop, I will tell you this - most dog shootings would NOT have happened if the owner was just caring and responsible enough to put and keep the dog on a leash - and therein lies the majority of the problem. I guess it's just easier for everyone to blame the cop doing his/her job instead of the root cause....
Message edited 4/14/2013 1:23:55 PM.
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| Posted 4/14/13 1:18 PM |
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anonymous20
LIF Adult
Member since 11/09 1248 total posts
Name:
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Re: Update: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
Posted by guyinblue
Not sure you all understand the problem....
We are literally speaking about split-second decisions here. There is absolutely no time for "escalation of force" as you suggest. When an animal (who doesn't understand police commands to stop) with a jaw bite force in some cases of up to 3 times that of a human is charging or lunging at you or someone else, you take IMMEDIATE action. Patrol officers in the city do not carry Tasers, and pepper spray is not always effective on an animal that has become highly aggressive (not something you want to find out when the animal is 10 feet away from you running at you or someone else at a speed of 30 MPH). If anyone is brave enough to try this, see what your reaction would be….not fun. This is not the movies or fantasy land where we can shoot a warning shot or take aim and shoot the dogs paw to scare it. As an avid animal lover, and cop, I will tell you this - most dog shootings would NOT have happened if the owner was just caring and responsible enough to put and keep the dog on a leash - and therein lies the majority of the problem. I guess it's just easier for everyone to blame the cop doing his/her job instead of the root cause....
Is there a reason why tasers are not carried and is there a stronger spray out there that would work? There has to be something that can be used that isn't deadly.
Dogs should be leashed but, as stated above, there are times when a dog that is leashed could get away from its handler..so then who is to blame in that situation? I don't think people are trying to put blame on cops at all. I think people just want a better way to handle these situations. If a crazy person was running towards you at full speed with a baseball bat-would you shoot that person? How is that situation handled?
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| Posted 4/15/13 4:41 PM |
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guyinblue
LIF Infant
Member since 12/09 107 total posts
Name:
Matt
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Re: Update: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
Posted by anonymous20
Posted by guyinblue
Not sure you all understand the problem....
We are literally speaking about split-second decisions here. There is absolutely no time for "escalation of force" as you suggest. When an animal (who doesn't understand police commands to stop) with a jaw bite force in some cases of up to 3 times that of a human is charging or lunging at you or someone else, you take IMMEDIATE action. Patrol officers in the city do not carry Tasers, and pepper spray is not always effective on an animal that has become highly aggressive (not something you want to find out when the animal is 10 feet away from you running at you or someone else at a speed of 30 MPH). If anyone is brave enough to try this, see what your reaction would be….not fun. This is not the movies or fantasy land where we can shoot a warning shot or take aim and shoot the dogs paw to scare it. As an avid animal lover, and cop, I will tell you this - most dog shootings would NOT have happened if the owner was just caring and responsible enough to put and keep the dog on a leash - and therein lies the majority of the problem. I guess it's just easier for everyone to blame the cop doing his/her job instead of the root cause....
Is there a reason why tasers are not carried and is there a stronger spray out there that would work? There has to be something that can be used that isn't deadly.
Dogs should be leashed but, as stated above, there are times when a dog that is leashed could get away from its handler..so then who is to blame in that situation? I don't think people are trying to put blame on cops at all. I think people just want a better way to handle these situations. If a crazy person was running towards you at full speed with a baseball bat-would you shoot that person? How is that situation handled?
Unfortunately, Tasers are prohibitively expensive for 35,000+ police officers. In a small police department, it isn't as noticeable. Additionally, for accountability issues, mostly only supervisors have them.
Even if there were a stronger chemical spray, time is of the essence....if it doesn't work, you're out of luck and it's too late with an aggressive animal potentially ripping you apart. These events unfold so quickly that you are almost forced to use something stronger than chemical spray right from the outset.
I have not been aware of a single dog shooting involving a dog on a leash. I don't think I have to comment further on that point.
And while every situation is different, and no two share the same the same exact dynamics, YES we would most likely be justified in shooting a person running full speed at us with a bat if we were reasonably sure he was about to inflict serious injury on us or someone else. The escalation of force does NOT dictate that other available means of force be tried first. In other words, depending upon the situation, we can and should go straight to firearms from the start when appropriate.
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| Posted 4/15/13 6:49 PM |
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Traysee
LIF Adolescent
Member since 12/10 652 total posts
Name:
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Update: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
I don't think anyone is disputing that police are justified in shooting a dog or a person who is charging AT YOU or another person in an aggressive manner.
But that is the point of getting the training, identifying what is aggression and what is puppy playfulness. In this case as well as some of the others I have read about the dogs were not CHARGING they were running. In this case the dog was running away.
And again, if it was a golden retriever I think police would have give them those extra seconds for the benefit of the doubt and if they didn't there would be a much bigger backlash from the public. As a dog owner you of all people should know that not all people are dog savvy. What you would see as playfulness someone else could easily misconstrue as a dog "attacking".
That is the whole point of the public wanting PO's to get training on dog behavior. A dog trainer would, in that few seconds, be able to tell the difference between a running dog and "charging" one, I would venture to say that so would most dog owners. In fact that is also the difference between police officers in general, you are trained to deal with the public, trusted to carry a weapon in public AND know when to use it and when to keep it on your belt.
More training is never a bad thing.
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| Posted 4/20/13 11:27 AM |
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strongisland
All you need is love
Member since 8/07 2474 total posts
Name:
T
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Re: Update: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
Posted by guyinblue
Posted by strongisland
Posted by guyinblue
Posted by strongisland
Poor dog :( sometimes these PO are trigger happy--Ive read one too many stories of PO's shooting/killing dogs with no just cause
**disclaimer**this is not a 'dig' against all PO--just the ones that are trigger happy
just trying to spread a little awareness as to what goes on
Baby Girl S.N.A.R.R. rescue dog
UPDATE:
very sad to report that Baby Girl died today---I am sick, I am mad, I feel so helpless. THis poor dog was pulled off death row -had a great home and now faced death again :( Poor dog-heartbreaking
Please sign the change.org petition!
Baby Girl
Sorry, but I am highly irritated by your post. Your "facts" are completely wrong. The story posted is NOT what actually happened. More importantly, it is disturbing that you assumed them to be factual and accurate simply because you read it somewhere. What's worse is that you then jump to the conclusion from that false assumption that some cops are trigger happy and kill dogs with no just cause. Do you know the training that we go through? Do you know what "just cause" is in that particular situation? Were you there at the scene or get the story firsthand from someone that was? If you answered no to any of those questions, you definitely should not presume to know what's right or wrong in a situation like that when you don't even have a factually accurate story. Instead, you publish a petition that makes false accusations about a story that you just "read".
As an emphatic animal lover, and cop, I believe your post is totally unwarranted as written..... "just trying to spread some awareness...."
im glad that you are irritated
reread my first post and then get back to me
if you know what happened---please share-
what story do you know?--please share the facts that you know--I'm willing to read more--give me what you got!
--also know that this cop had her gun taken away once before and note, that one of the people with the dog owner was a retired COP telling the shooting cop to stop! this wasn't a post bashing cops--i have many friends/family that are cops-i'm not like that---i am an animal lover and i feel terrible about this situation that wasn't necessary....as far as training goes, this cop should have known better that to open fire in a park at a dog running in the opposite direction!!!
note the entry and exit wounds of the bullet in the dog--the dog was running away--how do you explain that? Are you trained to shoot a dog that is running away? in an open park?
there are great cops out there and there are ones that suck--that goes for every profession---IMO, this cop sucks! Take the dog out of the equation, how do you explain her opening fire in a park? Is that part of your training?
I am spreading awareness bc this does, in fact exist--don't turn a blind eye to it just bc you are a cop.
Just so I'm clear since you questioned my facts:
Fact: She opened fire in a park
Fact: The bullet entry and exit show that the dog was running away
Fact: She made a dangerous situation for all those in the park-what if she hit a kid?
Fact: you stated that my post was inaccurate BUT you didn't state any facts yourself! If you know the truth bc you WERE there ;)-share! Just like you asked me if I was there---were you? How do you know my 'facts' are false?<----I guess it's bc you WERE there??
not sure what you would say about this story?click
Or Star the Pitbull shot by NYPD
Star was protecting her owner who was having a seizure--couldn't they have used a tranq instead of a bullet? Thankfully she survived---
While I cannot and will not comment about an ongoing police investigation, nor can I comment on whether I was there (get the point?) I will give you these publicly known FACTS:
1. The dog was NOT running away - in FACT it had lunged to bite.
2. The off-duty cop ALSO discharged their firearm. Guess you didn't know that???
3. Yes we ARE trained to shoot at animals in order to save our own ass or the ass of someone else, when danger of physical injury from the animal is imminent and there is no alternative.
Until you've walk in those BIG SHOES and made split second life-changing decisions, you're better off keeping your comments to yourself and not Monday morning quarterback the events of those who risk their lives every day protecting you. Trust in the FACT that we trained extremely well, and if something does go wrong despite that training, it is handled properly and NOT covered up.
And by the way, I totally AGREE with your assessment that there are good and bad in every profession, including cops....however, this is just simply NOT one of those cases.
So I wasn't going to respond to you because you are pretty much a nasty person--that's right-I said nasty person and very sarcastic-but luckily I am not bothered by your comments ;) And I don't take them to heart bc you are extremely defensive about this--I get it, you are supporting your brothers and sisters. Fine.
Also don't assume you know what I do for a living & what life changing decisions I have to make 'unless you are there' with me each day! ;) get my point.
The reason I decided to reply was bc I am an animal advocate and I will not be silenced. Sh it like the story I posted above does go on and there are more than just a 'few' stories. That is why across the country bills are trying to be passed, etc.
I know you want me to keep my comments to myself but I won't :) just like you haven't. Freedom of speech, right? Are we good with that? There are a lot of people like you who want people like me to keep my mouth shut--and if we listen to people like you-change will not happen-
According to you: "and if something does go wrong despite that training, it is handled properly and NOT covered up."
Really, so there are no corrupt cops? No corruption goes on?--no cover ups? If you as a cop believe that the public trusts you 100% that there are no cover ups-you are wrong! After that statement, I basically didn't take you seriously anymore.
So, basically we are going to have to agree to disagree. The story you believe is that of the cop and I believe the story of the dog owner. AND that's ok! Hopefully I am wrong and the cop was not trigger happy but until the investigation is complete-I will believe the dog owners.
Explain:
-the entry and exit of the bullet in the dog
-are retired cops the same as off duty cops? :)
-is it ok that she opened fire in a public place? are you trained to do that?
-is it ok that she previously had her gun take away? how many times is a cop allowed to get their gun back after it is taken away? Is there a limit?
Message edited 4/20/2013 6:20:47 PM.
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| Posted 4/20/13 6:12 PM |
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strongisland
All you need is love
Member since 8/07 2474 total posts
Name:
T
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Re: Update: Dog shot by police officer in SI-please read and share
Posted by lbride
just because there were a few published reports of cops shooting dogs doesn't mean we should all assume that they do no receive training in how to deal with dogs.
As a person that follows rescue groups, animal advocacy groups, etc. I can tell you that there are more than a few published reports. And since there are numerous reports & bills that are on the table to be passed- their training obviously needs improvement.
Message edited 4/20/2013 6:16:25 PM.
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| Posted 4/20/13 6:15 PM |
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