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Kara
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They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
Posted by GoldenRod
This site says that it would take 300,000 acres of windmills to replace the Indian Point power plant. However, the windmills could be put in the middle of existing farms, and take up relatively little land.
Not sure how many farmers would like windmills on their land. They are extremely noisey. (There are silent windmills in the works, but I think only 1 is in mass production. I'm not sure if there are any silent windmills being manufacturered or sold in the US.)
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Posted 9/10/08 4:12 PM  |
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CathyB
Member since 5/05 19403 total posts
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
There have been groups trying to put windmills a few miles off the LI coast for years. Far enough out that you wouldn't see them with the naked eye. I used to represent my company at the town hall meetings for the second proposal. There's been at least one more since then. Both of those were partnerships with LIPA.
Environmentalists keep winning the fight b/c we are along the North Atlantic Flyway (the migratory route of most east coastal birds) and there is a remote chance that a rare bird or two will fly into these huge windmills. So they get a bunch of people to sign petitions and protest at the town hall meetings and the politicians turn down the proposals.
Google results for some articles on it. I sat in on it before the 2005 ones, in like 2003. Looks like in 2007 LIPA killed it themselves.
Message edited 9/10/2008 4:24:46 PM.
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| Posted 9/10/08 4:19 PM |
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wannabemom
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Member since 12/07 7364 total posts
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aka marriedinportjeff
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
yeah, that's the environmental equivalent of being penny wise and pound foolish, don't ya think?
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| Posted 9/10/08 4:20 PM |
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Kara
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
Posted by wannabemom
yeah, that's the environmental equivalent of being penny wise and pound foolish, don't ya think?
if that was the ONLY reason it was shot down. I'm sure there were plenty more than just birds.
Also, FTR, I HIGHLY doubt birds would be flying into windmills. They are seriously loud. Birds won't be going near them...
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| Posted 9/10/08 4:26 PM |
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wannabemom
look who's freshly baked!
Member since 12/07 7364 total posts
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aka marriedinportjeff
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
Posted by Kara
Posted by wannabemom
yeah, that's the environmental equivalent of being penny wise and pound foolish, don't ya think?
if that was the ONLY reason it was shot down. I'm sure there were plenty more than just birds.
Also, FTR, I HIGHLY doubt birds would be flying into windmills. They are seriously loud. Birds won't be going near them...
well, I'd prefer to not presume that there are other reasons... I wonder if anyone else knows of other reasons it was shot down? After all, I know some LIF'ers must have attended those meetings.. it was a local thing.
You keep mentioning how loud they are, but I recall driving right by windmills in europe, and I never noticed any noise in particular... mind you our window were rolled up, but if it were a serious disturbance, I would have noticed it.....
Message edited 9/10/2008 4:32:17 PM.
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| Posted 9/10/08 4:31 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
Posted by Kara
Also, FTR, I HIGHLY doubt birds would be flying into windmills. They are seriously loud. Birds won't be going near them...
I was gonna say...even the great DoDo wasn't that dumb 
I wonder, something along the lines of what ~ said, how much noice they would make in relationship to airplane and train and automobile noise.
I'd take noisy over potential nuclear fall out ANY day.
If I could I'd put on in my hard 
it may be shameful to say, but don't have the confidence that'd we'd build the best and most high tech nuclear power plants. there is too much emphasis on cost cutting and doing everything as cheaply as possible.
in the govt, cheapest ALWAYS wins.
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| Posted 9/10/08 4:31 PM |
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CathyB
Member since 5/05 19403 total posts
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
Posted by Kara
Posted by wannabemom
yeah, that's the environmental equivalent of being penny wise and pound foolish, don't ya think?
if that was the ONLY reason it was shot down. I'm sure there were plenty more than just birds.
Also, FTR, I HIGHLY doubt birds would be flying into windmills. They are seriously loud. Birds won't be going near them...
When I was going to the meetings they were scheduled during the work day and aside from LIPA and the company who was building them the only other participants were LI Convention & Visitors Bureau (that's who I was with), National Parks Dept, local fishermen and the environmentalists. And they'd hold them in really obsure places that were a PITA to get to. It was a shame really.
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| Posted 9/10/08 4:41 PM |
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mcl916
my two loves
Member since 10/06 5133 total posts
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Megan
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
Posted by Kara
Posted by wannabemom
yeah, that's the environmental equivalent of being penny wise and pound foolish, don't ya think?
if that was the ONLY reason it was shot down. I'm sure there were plenty more than just birds.
Also, FTR, I HIGHLY doubt birds would be flying into windmills. They are seriously loud. Birds won't be going near them...
That is one of the BIG reasons they are meeting a lot of resistance. That and they are not aesthetically pleasing (even though they would put them miles out into the ocean where no one would even see them). Apparetnly birds will fly into these things. I don't really buy it, but what do I know
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| Posted 9/10/08 4:54 PM |
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mcl916
my two loves
Member since 10/06 5133 total posts
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Megan
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
Here are a few articles I found:
NCPA
Pittsburgh Post
There are a bunch more and it seems the #1 reason people are against them are the bird and bat populations. Can't win in this energy crisis!!!
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| Posted 9/10/08 4:59 PM |
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Kara
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Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
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They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Kara
Also, FTR, I HIGHLY doubt birds would be flying into windmills. They are seriously loud. Birds won't be going near them...
I was gonna say...even the great DoDo wasn't that dumb
My DH and I were discussing windmill power with someone else the other day. This person was specifically concerned about birds flying into them. My DH said "They are basically like large jet engines and very noisey. Birds probably won't be flying into them en masse."
The other person goes, "But birds fly into actual jet egines all the time."
My DH responds, "I'm pretty sure it's more accurate to say the jets fly into the birds. I've yet to see a windmill traveling at 600 mph."
I'm sure the occasional bird does get harmed by windmills, but I don't think it's an enormous problem. I do think that the environmental concerns with birds and other animals is that the windmills inhibit animals from nesting or making homes near to them due to the noise / size. Also, I believe windmills need more open space to be especially effective, so it requries in some instances the removal of natural habitats for birds.
That said, I'm not opposed to wind energy at all. I am not convinced LI is the ideal place for wind energy, but I'm not convinced either way honestly.
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| Posted 9/10/08 5:02 PM |
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Kara
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Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
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They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
Posted by mcl916
Posted by Kara
Posted by wannabemom
yeah, that's the environmental equivalent of being penny wise and pound foolish, don't ya think?
if that was the ONLY reason it was shot down. I'm sure there were plenty more than just birds.
Also, FTR, I HIGHLY doubt birds would be flying into windmills. They are seriously loud. Birds won't be going near them...
That is one of the BIG reasons they are meeting a lot of resistance. That and they are not aesthetically pleasing (even though they would put them miles out into the ocean where no one would even see them). Apparetnly birds will fly into these things. I don't really buy it, but what do I know
Were they planning to build them out in the water? Interesting!
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| Posted 9/10/08 5:03 PM |
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Kara
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Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
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They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
Posted by wannabemom
Posted by Kara
Posted by wannabemom
yeah, that's the environmental equivalent of being penny wise and pound foolish, don't ya think?
if that was the ONLY reason it was shot down. I'm sure there were plenty more than just birds.
Also, FTR, I HIGHLY doubt birds would be flying into windmills. They are seriously loud. Birds won't be going near them...
well, I'd prefer to not presume that there are other reasons... I wonder if anyone else knows of other reasons it was shot down? After all, I know some LIF'ers must have attended those meetings.. it was a local thing.
You keep mentioning how loud they are, but I recall driving right by windmills in europe, and I never noticed any noise in particular... mind you our window were rolled up, but if it were a serious disturbance, I would have noticed it.....
NY Times article on LI Windmills . Last year, LIPA shot it down based on cost:
“My decision is based strictly on the costs,” Mr. Law said, citing a consultant’s study, released on Thursday, that estimates the project’s cost at $811 million, making wind power more than twice as expensive as that from conventional sources.
ETF Typo
Message edited 9/10/2008 5:08:08 PM.
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| Posted 9/10/08 5:06 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
I wonder how aesthetically pleasing oil rigs look in the ocean or dotting the plains to Texas and wherever else.
people need more to worry about (like uh, rapid climate change) if they are debating this issue due to aesthetics. 
Message edited 9/10/2008 5:09:35 PM.
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| Posted 9/10/08 5:07 PM |
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wannabemom
look who's freshly baked!
Member since 12/07 7364 total posts
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aka marriedinportjeff
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
Posted by mcl916
Here are a few articles I found:
NCPA
Pittsburgh Post
There are a bunch more and it seems the #1 reason people are against them are the bird and bat populations. Can't win in this energy crisis!!!
this is ridiculous!  put an f-in grid in front of them then. is the world ruled by morons? wait, don't answer that 
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| Posted 9/10/08 5:07 PM |
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mcl916
my two loves
Member since 10/06 5133 total posts
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Megan
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
Posted by Kara
Posted by mcl916
Posted by Kara
Posted by wannabemom
yeah, that's the environmental equivalent of being penny wise and pound foolish, don't ya think?
if that was the ONLY reason it was shot down. I'm sure there were plenty more than just birds.
Also, FTR, I HIGHLY doubt birds would be flying into windmills. They are seriously loud. Birds won't be going near them...
That is one of the BIG reasons they are meeting a lot of resistance. That and they are not aesthetically pleasing (even though they would put them miles out into the ocean where no one would even see them). Apparetnly birds will fly into these things. I don't really buy it, but what do I know
Were they planning to build them out in the water? Interesting!
Yes, the ones I have heard talk about were going to go off Montauk point. I think the other problem with the ones in the water were the vibrations from them disturbing the fish.
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| Posted 9/10/08 5:10 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
no one wants this in their backyard but they are needed to produce energy.
me personally, no.
but I am all for more being built.
hypocritical? yes
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| Posted 9/10/08 6:28 PM |
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Kara
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Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
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They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
no one wants this in their backyard but they are needed to produce energy.
me personally, no.
but I am all for more being built.
hypocritical? yes
I'm not sure it's necessarily hypocritical (though I understand the argument that it is)l. I don't want to live down the street from a windmill or a coal power plant either... but I'm not opposed to them. I don't want to live next door to the fire department, but I sure want one in my neighborhood...
That said, I may be taking the "backyard" reference a bit too literally. It could very well be that the OP meant more generally - would you support an active nuclear power plant on Long Island, for example...
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| Posted 9/10/08 6:34 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
no one wants this in their backyard but they are needed to produce energy.
me personally, no.
but I am all for more being built.
hypocritical? yes
if you can't take the heat, don't order the jalapeño.
I could not live by this philosophy. it's basically asking someone else to shoulder my burden. I don't roll like that.
Kara...I meant it both ways I guess...but really wanted to know if you sponsored it, would you see it in your town.
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| Posted 9/10/08 6:41 PM |
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Kara
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Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
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They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
Posted by Ophelia
Kara...I meant it both ways I guess...but really wanted to know if you sponsored it, would you see it in your town.
Thanks. 
For me, it's an issue I am actually on the fence about...
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| Posted 9/10/08 6:47 PM |
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HomeIsWithU
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Member since 9/07 7816 total posts
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Jenn
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
Yes, and I did for many years. I grew up in Rockland County where we lived right next to Indian Point Nuclear Plant. DH and I plan to move back there again in the near future. The plant is perfectly safe and everyone knows the drill if something were to go wrong, however, I dont forsee anything like that happenning. They have to be built somewhere and really, it has very little impact on the residents around it.
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| Posted 9/10/08 6:59 PM |
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mka06
LIF Adult
Member since 8/06 1079 total posts
Name:
Melis
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
Posted by wannabemom
Posted by mka06
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by Sassyz75
Posted by JRG71
I think it's interesting as well. On LI we had Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant.
It never went live.
I don't know enough about it to comment either way - I will say that my dad had a job for many years building the Shoreham plant - So for that I am thankful. I don't know if I would like to see it activated though. I just think there has to be better alternatives.
I think the plant should go live- that's the reason why our electricity is the 4th highest in the nation- b/c we're paying for that plant that isn't used!
The plant was decommissioned and dismantled. It doesn't exist anymore.
It actually WAS producing nuclear power for a while. You can run a nuclear power plant up to a certain output without getting certain approvals. They were able to run in "test" mode for a while. That made tearing it down very expensive. It was "hot" when they took it apart.
Expensive to tear down and if I recall correctly LILCO was forced to sell the plant to the state for ONE DOLLAR, which certailnly didn't help reoup costs.
Utilities pass increased costs (from whatever the reason -- this or a renewable energy requirement) on to their customers. Everyone blamed the electric company for the increased costs after that plant was shut down, but the politicians that made the deal had A LOT to do with it.
I disagree. LILCO fired that baby up for under a month, knowing full well that they would never get approval to run the power plant becuase there was no feasible evacuation plan for LI in case of a meltdown. They were WARNED numerous times by the gov't to NOT fire it up for a test run and contaminate the whole thing. they did it anyway. I think they did it to force the issue so they could use the plant despite not having the required safety concerns addressed...
So they were punished by being forced into bankrupcy by selling the d@mn thing for $1, since there was NO WAY they could afford to dismantle the plant (as required by the fed gov't) on their own. The Gov't bailed them out (and LI) bigtime by buying it for $1.
LILCO were such @holes IMO......
i guess we have to agree to disagree on this one.
i think the politicians really lucked out that all the bad PR for this got stuck on LILCO. Gov Cuomo signed a deal where LILCO agreed they wouldn't keep the plant in operation and the billions of dollars that closing it would cost got passed on to customers. That is why until 2019 all customers pay a surcharge on top of their bills for usage.
I don't have a lot of details on the evacuation plan -- but there certaily was one put together. Politicians decided it wasn't feasible. There were many who thought that the plan was reasonable.
At that tiime -- with chernobyl and three mile island incidents having occurred-- there was a lot of energy (no pun intended) around that issue. I may be in the minority, but I believe that overblown hype is what led to the decommissioning of that plant.
There are other nuke plants in the US with the same geographical issues as LI and they are operational and have been without incident.
I understand that the concept of nuclear power can be scary... but I would rather have had power being generated from a clean fuel like nuclear on LI for the last 20 or 30 years than fossil fuels. I think we would have been better off environmentally...
but, again, JMO. and i know that i likely don't have the popular one on this issue.
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| Posted 9/11/08 12:42 PM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: would you allow a nuclear power plant IYBY?
Posted by Kara
Posted by GoldenRod
This site says that it would take 300,000 acres of windmills to replace the Indian Point power plant. However, the windmills could be put in the middle of existing farms, and take up relatively little land.
Not sure how many farmers would like windmills on their land. They are extremely noisey. (There are silent windmills in the works, but I think only 1 is in mass production. I'm not sure if there are any silent windmills being manufacturered or sold in the US.)
I've seen several shows that have plenty of Texas farmers putting windmills on their property. It's a great way for them to make extra money, and none of the ones interviewed had anything negative to say about them.
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| Posted 9/11/08 1:21 PM |
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