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twicethefun
Loving life
Member since 7/06 4088 total posts
Name:
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Re: Punishment ???
Message edited 10/20/2013 1:02:05 AM.
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Posted 10/17/13 8:07 PM  |
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Sash
Peace
Member since 6/08 10312 total posts
Name:
fka LIW Smara
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Re: Punishment ???
Posted by twicethefun
Well after reading this thread, I decided not to make my student stand after playing/rocking in his seat. Well he tipped it all seat, desk and all. And he nearly seriously injured himself. But I am not going to deal with parents who complain because I gave their child a reasonable consequence. He'll have to learn the hard way.
I'm a kindergarten teacher.
 yikes. Will you go back to implementing standing consequence? just curious.
As much as I love my son and know he is genreally a good boy around me; I know its different when he's around others or in school. The other day, His teacher actually said she appreciates that we trust her judgement and work with her. she said she gets alot of "Not my child" push back. I felt bad for her.
Sometimes parents can add unecessary stress to an already challenging job.
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| Posted 10/17/13 8:15 PM |
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Jacksmommy
My love muffin!
Member since 1/07 5819 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: Punishment ???
Posted by twicethefun
Well after reading this thread, I decided not to make my student stand after playing/rocking in his seat. Well he tipped it all seat, desk and all. And he nearly seriously injured himself. But I am not going to deal with parents who complain because I gave their child a reasonable consequence. He'll have to learn the hard way.
I'm a kindergarten teacher.
I am sorry that happened to you. However, is taking a child's seat away the only consequence you can think of. I never said (and I have repeated it several times in this thread) that my child shouldn't have gotten a consequence, I absolutely think that there should have been a consequence- for a few reasons - safety and not listening. However, there are other consequences besides making a student stand and do work. I also am a special Ed teacher so I think a little differently. I would wonder if the child needed to be in constant motion as some children with ADHD do and provide modifications.
Oh and if you want to prevent the chair tipping from ever happening, you can invest in some tennis balls and put them on the bottom of your students chairs. It makes for a quiet classroom and students can't possibly tip it. I have been using this trick (more to eliminate noise for my distractible students) for the past several years and it works wonderfully!!!
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| Posted 10/17/13 8:50 PM |
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twicethefun
Loving life
Member since 7/06 4088 total posts
Name:
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Re: Punishment ???
Message edited 10/20/2013 1:03:25 AM.
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| Posted 10/18/13 11:31 PM |
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iluvmynutty
Mom to E&M
Member since 12/08 1762 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: Punishment ???
I work with lots of kindergarten & 1st grade students, many of which have ADHD, Autism or other disabilities. Many of them tip their chairs back and it's really dangerous. What I do is give them a warning and if it continues I turn their chair around so that the back of their chair touches the table. This way the can still sit and work but can't tip the chair.
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| Posted 10/19/13 7:56 AM |
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twicethefun
Loving life
Member since 7/06 4088 total posts
Name:
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Re: Punishment ???
Message edited 10/20/2013 1:03:48 AM.
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| Posted 10/19/13 8:43 AM |
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BargainMama
LIF Adult
Member since 5/09 15657 total posts
Name:
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Re: Punishment ???
Posted by twicethefun
Well after reading this thread, I decided not to make my student stand after playing/rocking in his seat. Well he tipped it all seat, desk and all. And he nearly seriously injured himself. But I am not going to deal with parents who complain because I gave their child a reasonable consequence. He'll have to learn the hard way.
I'm a kindergarten teacher.
Taking away a chair and having a child stand is not a reasonable consequence. Moving the child's chair up against the wall, or having the child sit on the carpet with a clipboard is a reasonable consequence. I think it's ridiculous that you are making it out that parent's who believe this is a terrible form of punishment don't believe in a consequence at all for the behavior. That is not the case.
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| Posted 10/19/13 9:00 AM |
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BargainMama
LIF Adult
Member since 5/09 15657 total posts
Name:
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Re: Punishment ???
Posted by twicethefun
Posted by iluvmynutty
I work with lots of kindergarten & 1st grade students, many of which have ADHD, Autism or other disabilities. Many of them tip their chairs back and it's really dangerous. What I do is give them a warning and if it continues I turn their chair around so that the back of their chair touches the table. This way the can still sit and work but can't tip the chair.
I like this idea, and have done used it on the above child who tipped both his chair and his desk. Well he used his chair as a step to get to the top of his desk where he did a little dance and jumped off. Unfortunately, it did not work for him. But even if it did, couldn't a parent then complain we turned their child from their table and humiliated him/her with no table to work at? Unless you have two tables for him. That would not be feasible in my room with 25 students squished into it.
There is a different IMO in a child seated, and a child standing in the class. A standing child is probably a distraction to the other students anyway. If you are in a room with everyone seated, and one person stands, don't you get distracted? If that one person was forced to stand, don't you think they would feel embarrassed, like everyone was staring at them? I would. There IS a difference, no matter how you slice and dice it.
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| Posted 10/19/13 9:02 AM |
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adeline27
LIF Adult
Member since 5/06 3121 total posts
Name:
Angela
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Re: Punishment ???
I don't think this is a "playing" let me aggravate the teacher as much as I can thing. If this child does this a lot, it sounds like its some sort of stimulation he can't help, nervousness or anxiety. To have the child stand for a duration of time doesn't make sense to me. Rocking could be some kind of sensory input for them. I would hope the teacher would have a talk with me about this so #1 I would be aware of how he's acting in class and #2 we could both agree on a solution, putting the tennis balls on the chair, or putting the chair against the wall... Lol with the size of these classes today I don't even see how there could be even room to do this ( rock or fall)!!!
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| Posted 10/19/13 9:10 AM |
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Katareen
5,000 Posts!
Member since 4/10 7180 total posts
Name:
Katherine
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Re: Punishment ???
Posted by Eireann
I have to say, I am completely flabbergasted that people feel that making a child stand for five minutes is corporal punishment. Five minutes? Five?!
I'm trying to see all sides here (I am the parent of a 3rd and a 1st grader as well as one in nursery AND I'm a teacher...secondary ed, though) and I just can't think of any realm in which I would say anything other than "Good!" if my child came home and said she'd stood for 5 minutes because of fidgeting, tilting the chair, or honestly whatever. I really don't even think I'd care that I wasn't notified over something so minor. Maybe because my DC, my DH, and I have spent our entire educational (and in my case, professional) careers in Catholic school this is so...idk...
It takes a village...
I agree...is your child standing at an easel doing an art project "abuse" and "corporal punishment"??
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| Posted 10/19/13 11:35 AM |
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Jacksmommy
My love muffin!
Member since 1/07 5819 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: Punishment ???
Posted by twicethefun
Posted by iluvmynutty
I work with lots of kindergarten & 1st grade students, many of which have ADHD, Autism or other disabilities. Many of them tip their chairs back and it's really dangerous. What I do is give them a warning and if it continues I turn their chair around so that the back of their chair touches the table. This way the can still sit and work but can't tip the chair.
I like this idea, and have done used it on the above child who tipped both his chair and his desk. Well he used his chair as a step to get to the top of his desk where he did a little dance and jumped off. Unfortunately, it did not work for him. But even if it did, couldn't a parent then complain we turned their child from their table and humiliated him/her with no table to work at? Unless you have two tables for him. That would not be feasible in my room with 25 students squished into it.
The suggestion in this case isn't to turn the child around. It is to turn their chair around. The chair touches the desk, but they cannot rock on the seat because there is no back. They would then still be sitting at their desk doing their work, with the back of the chair in front of them. And, if your student cannot manage their behavior in a class of 25, and got up on the desk to do "a little dance" and jump off, I would assume that you would need another intervention, as this child is probably doing attention seeking behaviors. A FBA would probably be best to suit this particular child's needs. In my child's school, after the teacher consulted with the OT, they put a theraband on the bottom of his chair. I am happy to report that the teacher wrote yesterday that she has seen a nice improvement in my son due to this. Some children, especially at FIVE years old (or JUST 5, which my child is), need a little extra. We, as teachers, need to be creative on how to implement modifications in the classroom to make sure all children are successful. And as for implementing consequences, I agree, there are some parents that never want consequences implemented for their child. However, it is important, at that point, to include the school psychologist, dean (if there is one) and principal in conversations with the parent. If there is a clear discipline policy in place, that is agreed on and acceptable, there should be no problems.
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| Posted 10/19/13 2:09 PM |
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adeline27
LIF Adult
Member since 5/06 3121 total posts
Name:
Angela
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Re: Punishment ???
That's a great update. I appreciate and respect the teachers that will go the extra step to find the right solution instead of a quick fix that does absolutely nothing. I applaud you for following up and doing what was best for your child.
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| Posted 10/19/13 4:48 PM |
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lovelife
LIF Infant
Member since 9/13 137 total posts
Name:
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Punishment ???
My DD is in kindergarten and is a well behaved little girl who loves school and is doing great. She has a history of some social anxiety issues that have thankfully been resolved. She has become a friendly, happy little girl now due to intervention for her issues. The other day I picked her up and she looked very very sad. We got in the car and she just starts slowly crying until she was having trouble catching her breath. She said she got into trouble and got a consequence. Wouldnt tell me why and just retreated completely for hours. She was just so sad. The next morning this little girl who usually can't wait for school asked to stay home. Of course when we got to school I asked the teacher what happened. She said that she announced coloring time was over and my DD reached for another marker instead of stopping. She was given a 5 minute time out atthe consequence table. I'm all for disciplining my kids but really?? my dd has since told me almost every kid has received time outs already. Its only mid october. I fully get how difficult a teachers job can be but my dds class is 14 kids. Thats it. I think consequences are necessary but in my case I don't feel it was warranted.
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| Posted 10/19/13 5:54 PM |
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twicethefun
Loving life
Member since 7/06 4088 total posts
Name:
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Re: Punishment ???
Message edited 10/21/2013 9:22:04 PM.
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| Posted 10/20/13 1:14 AM |
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sapphire
LIF Adolescent
Member since 6/06 568 total posts
Name:
Elizabeth
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Re: Punishment ???
I have been following this thread from the start. I believe Jacksmommy was completely justified in contacting the teacher about this issue, and the response of the teacher, OT, and whomever else was fantastic.
Rocking a chair can indicate so many things for a young child.
What saddens me as someone who taught kindergarten, and a mother of a special needs child, are the terms "little monsters" and "badly behaved kids". Taking the time to understand "why" a behavior may be occurring is key. A FBA is definitely needed if there is a child who is having a difficult time 'sitting still". My daughter needs a lot of vestibular input throughout her day. She needs to move, in fact her ability to learn intensifies when she can use her body. Sitting in a chair, can actually fatigue her. (it's difficult for some kids to sit still, some kids are dealing with low tone in their core). My daughter is far from a little monster, or badly behaved...so this really upset me. It would scare me to think someone would even think that of her. In addition, parents know their children better than anyone. Parents are the most valuable resource a teacher has, take the time to listen to parents. I have never met a parent that wanted to control me as a teacher, only ones that wanted to work with me.
Message edited 10/21/2013 12:00:34 PM.
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| Posted 10/21/13 11:56 AM |
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BargainMama
LIF Adult
Member since 5/09 15657 total posts
Name:
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Re: Punishment ???
Posted by Katareen
Posted by Eireann
I have to say, I am completely flabbergasted that people feel that making a child stand for five minutes is corporal punishment. Five minutes? Five?!
I'm trying to see all sides here (I am the parent of a 3rd and a 1st grader as well as one in nursery AND I'm a teacher...secondary ed, though) and I just can't think of any realm in which I would say anything other than "Good!" if my child came home and said she'd stood for 5 minutes because of fidgeting, tilting the chair, or honestly whatever. I really don't even think I'd care that I wasn't notified over something so minor. Maybe because my DC, my DH, and I have spent our entire educational (and in my case, professional) careers in Catholic school this is so...idk...
It takes a village...
I agree...is your child standing at an easel doing an art project "abuse" and "corporal punishment"??
That is not even close to being the same thing. At all. 
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| Posted 10/21/13 12:04 PM |
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Sash
Peace
Member since 6/08 10312 total posts
Name:
fka LIW Smara
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Punishment ???
I understand that some kids may have issues but some kids are actually just brats. And I do believe the parents do mare harm then good with the "Not My Child Attitude". My son is a sweet, polite and very lovable little boy but he can also be a "little monster" or a "brat".
My sons previous daycare almost railroaded me to getting him evaluated and thinking something was wrong with him. This is a child who hardly ever throws himself on the floor, screams or disrespects me. I started to notice that maybe it was the lack of structure at his old school. Fast fwd to putting him in catholic school, first two weeks he had tantrums where he was punished at home and in school. After he realized that this was school and he wouldnt get his way, he turned into a totally different kid. He thrives in a structured environment. Same reason he is awesome in karate, this kid will stand still without even blinking for over a minute in that class.
My point is that maybe there could be a bigger issue but I feel a lot of times kids need discipline and structure. In my opinion none of these consequences seem so severe. But again I tend to be on the stricter side,
Im glad the OP was able to get answers and work with the teacher.
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| Posted 10/21/13 12:19 PM |
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sapphire
LIF Adolescent
Member since 6/06 568 total posts
Name:
Elizabeth
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Re: Punishment ???
Kids most definitely need structure, they thrive off of it. In fact, the most child centered classrooms require the most structure. (ex. Montessori). Environment can completely encourage or discourage certain behaviors.
Behavior is communication for young child, understanding why they are doing what they are doing, is KEY.
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| Posted 10/21/13 12:44 PM |
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Sixofus
LIF Adolescent
Member since 10/13 594 total posts
Name:
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Re: Punishment ???
I don't really think it's that bad. Then again my kids go to catholic school, lol. I have a first grader and second grader, and they tell me that if a kid gets in trouble repeatedly, the teacher sends them to their last year class. So my first grader sometimes has a second grader come knock on the door and sit in their classroom for awhile. I think it's kind of funny.
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| Posted 10/23/13 8:26 AM |
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