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d-h2008
LIF Adult
Member since 10/09 2490 total posts
Name:
D EDD: 8/29/2010
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2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
So lawyers are sending contracts out... We signed and the sellers lawyer made changes and sent it back out. The sellers now put in that they want to take the two mirrors above the double sinks , as well as the fireplace.
I thought mirrors and things like that (in the bathroom) stay? No?
Also in the MLSLI listing it lists "fireplace: yes" ... So we thought it came with the house.
Our lawyer is insisting on having all these included, he told us that this stuff should have been stated in the original contract we signed! I definitely want the fireplace, the mirrors maybe I can let go of...
Opinions? I think we're right, my DH says just let it go...
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Posted 2/19/14 12:39 PM  |
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Prudential Douglas Elliman Real Estate
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JDubs
different, not less
Member since 7/09 13160 total posts
Name:
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Re: 2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
ITA that a fireplace is a big thing... and yes they should have stated that in the original contract before you signed. When we signed our contract our sellers said they wanted to take some of the lighting fixtures which wasn't a huge deal to us, but, at least it was stated in the contract the first time around.
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| Posted 2/19/14 1:28 PM |
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Faithx2
All good things in 2016!!
Member since 8/05 20181 total posts
Name:
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Re: 2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
If a house states it has a fireplace, it shouldn't be movable. That not considered having a fireplace...
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| Posted 2/19/14 1:29 PM |
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jessnbrian
Only God knows His plan for us
Member since 4/13 7238 total posts
Name:
Jessica
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2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
what kind of fireplace is it that they are taking with them? That sounds really strange to me. The mirrors I wouldn't care so much about.
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| Posted 2/19/14 1:33 PM |
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d-h2008
LIF Adult
Member since 10/09 2490 total posts
Name:
D EDD: 8/29/2010
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Re: 2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
Posted by jessnbrian
what kind of fireplace is it that they are taking with them? That sounds really strange to me. The mirrors I wouldn't care so much about.
Electric fireplace
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| Posted 2/19/14 2:02 PM |
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JenMarie
One day at a time
Member since 11/07 7397 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
You signed the contract and THEN their lawyer requested the changes? No. Let your lawyer battle this out with them. I'd maybe budge on the bathroom mirrors, but not the fireplace if that said it was included in the listing. Or, have your lawyer request a concession on the sale price to compensate for the items that want. But I'd be really annoyed.
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| Posted 2/19/14 2:07 PM |
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d-h2008
LIF Adult
Member since 10/09 2490 total posts
Name:
D EDD: 8/29/2010
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Re: 2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
Posted by JenMarie
You signed the contract and THEN their lawyer requested the changes? No. Let your lawyer battle this out with them. I'd maybe budge on the bathroom mirrors, but not the fireplace if that said it was included in the listing. Or, have your lawyer request a concession on the sale price to compensate for the items that want. But I'd be really annoyed.
Correct, they made those changes afterwards!
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| Posted 2/19/14 3:40 PM |
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Re: 2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
First of all, I have to vent that I HATE when attorneys do stuff like this (and I am an attorney). But they should NOT be changing the terms of the deal this late in the game, and definitely not after you signed the contract. Before anyone signs the contract, the terms of the agreement - all terms - should be agreed upon and incorporated in the contract. If it's still being negotiated, the attorneys should hold off on clients signing. So I am sorry that happened to you. I know from experience, it can really set a bad, combative tone for a transaction, which is never a good thing.
That being said, Faith is correct that a fireplace represented on a listing should be an ACTUAL fireplace built into the home (where you can make a woodburning or gas fire, and it vents out a chimney).
An electric fireplace is considered personal property, like any other piece of furniture belonging to the seller, and would typically not be included in the sale unless specifically negotiated in. (And most of the time, when furniture is being purchased or included, that is by separate agreement, not in the sales contract).
The mirrors would typically be included, if they are affixed to the bathroom walls (unlike say a small decorative mirror hanging in a hallway).
Truthfully - I would NOT sit back and let the attorneys battle it out. Too often, that doesn't have great results. I would try to have the agents discuss it and come to a reasonable agreement. Sometimes with the attorneys, egos get in the way. Also, the attorneys have never seen the house, the items at issue, and they don't know the backstory or negotiations that led up to the agreement on the offer. The agents usually have a better handle on those things and better perspective on the transaction.
If you were my client, I would ask you how you would have negotiated differently, if at all, if you had known that the mirrors and fireplace weren't staying. Try to remove the emotions/anger over the fact that they changed the contract after you signed, and just think about what these items are really worth to you? Are they worth losing the house? I kind of agree with your husband that they aren't. But I doubt they are worth losing good buyers, from the sellers' standpoint, too, so I would try to compromise.
Maybe the sellers can give you some kind of credit for these items, which will at least provide something. Or maybe they will agree to leave the mirrors (is there something special about them? Are they heirlooms?) If there is something special about the mirrors, maybe they will at least replace them -- when people exclude lighting fixtures or something like that, they can't just leave nothing there, with wires hanging. They have to replace it with another light (usually just a builder-grade fixture, though, not something of the buyer's choosing). The electric fireplace, I'd let it go... it's not a feature of the house. To me, it's the same as them taking their bed or their couch. And you can buy a new one for a few hundred dollars. Not worth losing a house over it, imo!
But I would just try to put aside the anger and try to find common ground on this, if you want the house. These aren't high value items, so to me not a big deal to exclude, although they didn't go about it the right way AT ALL!
Good luck!
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| Posted 2/19/14 3:55 PM |
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d-h2008
LIF Adult
Member since 10/09 2490 total posts
Name:
D EDD: 8/29/2010
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Re: 2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
Posted by Century 21 Dallow - Christine Braun
First of all, I have to vent that I HATE when attorneys do stuff like this (and I am an attorney). But they should NOT be changing the terms of the deal this late in the game, and definitely not after you signed the contract. Before anyone signs the contract, the terms of the agreement - all terms - should be agreed upon and incorporated in the contract. If it's still being negotiated, the attorneys should hold off on clients signing. So I am sorry that happened to you. I know from experience, it can really set a bad, combative tone for a transaction, which is never a good thing.
That being said, Faith is correct that a fireplace represented on a listing should be an ACTUAL fireplace built into the home (where you can make a woodburning or gas fire, and it vents out a chimney).
An electric fireplace is considered personal property, like any other piece of furniture belonging to the seller, and would typically not be included in the sale unless specifically negotiated in. (And most of the time, when furniture is being purchased or included, that is by separate agreement, not in the sales contract).
The mirrors would typically be included, if they are affixed to the bathroom walls (unlike say a small decorative mirror hanging in a hallway).
Truthfully - I would NOT sit back and let the attorneys battle it out. Too often, that doesn't have great results. I would try to have the agents discuss it and come to a reasonable agreement. Sometimes with the attorneys, egos get in the way. Also, the attorneys have never seen the house, the items at issue, and they don't know the backstory or negotiations that led up to the agreement on the offer. The agents usually have a better handle on those things and better perspective on the transaction.
If you were my client, I would ask you how you would have negotiated differently, if at all, if you had known that the mirrors and fireplace weren't staying. Try to remove the emotions/anger over the fact that they changed the contract after you signed, and just think about what these items are really worth to you? Are they worth losing the house? I kind of agree with your husband that they aren't. But I doubt they are worth losing good buyers, from the sellers' standpoint, too, so I would try to compromise.
Maybe the sellers can give you some kind of credit for these items, which will at least provide something. Or maybe they will agree to leave the mirrors (is there something special about them? Are they heirlooms?) If there is something special about the mirrors, maybe they will at least replace them -- when people exclude lighting fixtures or something like that, they can't just leave nothing there, with wires hanging. They have to replace it with another light (usually just a builder-grade fixture, though, not something of the buyer's choosing). The electric fireplace, I'd let it go... it's not a feature of the house. To me, it's the same as them taking their bed or their couch. And you can buy a new one for a few hundred dollars. Not worth losing a house over it, imo!
But I would just try to put aside the anger and try to find common ground on this, if you want the house. These aren't high value items, so to me not a big deal to exclude, although they didn't go about it the right way AT ALL!
Good luck!
I wouldn't lose the house over this stuff but honestly the homeowners and realtor decided to market the house with the fireplace, so I believe we should get it!! The mirrors are affixed to the wall and they are nice, I don't want them replaced with cheap stuff from Home Depot!
This is just so silly because they are supposedly so in a rush to close early, yet they pull this move?! I'm not gonna back down just yet lol
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| Posted 2/19/14 4:08 PM |
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Re: 2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
Posted by d-h2008
Posted by Century 21 Dallow - Christine Braun
First of all, I have to vent that I HATE when attorneys do stuff like this (and I am an attorney). But they should NOT be changing the terms of the deal this late in the game, and definitely not after you signed the contract. Before anyone signs the contract, the terms of the agreement - all terms - should be agreed upon and incorporated in the contract. If it's still being negotiated, the attorneys should hold off on clients signing. So I am sorry that happened to you. I know from experience, it can really set a bad, combative tone for a transaction, which is never a good thing.
That being said, Faith is correct that a fireplace represented on a listing should be an ACTUAL fireplace built into the home (where you can make a woodburning or gas fire, and it vents out a chimney).
An electric fireplace is considered personal property, like any other piece of furniture belonging to the seller, and would typically not be included in the sale unless specifically negotiated in. (And most of the time, when furniture is being purchased or included, that is by separate agreement, not in the sales contract).
The mirrors would typically be included, if they are affixed to the bathroom walls (unlike say a small decorative mirror hanging in a hallway).
Truthfully - I would NOT sit back and let the attorneys battle it out. Too often, that doesn't have great results. I would try to have the agents discuss it and come to a reasonable agreement. Sometimes with the attorneys, egos get in the way. Also, the attorneys have never seen the house, the items at issue, and they don't know the backstory or negotiations that led up to the agreement on the offer. The agents usually have a better handle on those things and better perspective on the transaction.
If you were my client, I would ask you how you would have negotiated differently, if at all, if you had known that the mirrors and fireplace weren't staying. Try to remove the emotions/anger over the fact that they changed the contract after you signed, and just think about what these items are really worth to you? Are they worth losing the house? I kind of agree with your husband that they aren't. But I doubt they are worth losing good buyers, from the sellers' standpoint, too, so I would try to compromise.
Maybe the sellers can give you some kind of credit for these items, which will at least provide something. Or maybe they will agree to leave the mirrors (is there something special about them? Are they heirlooms?) If there is something special about the mirrors, maybe they will at least replace them -- when people exclude lighting fixtures or something like that, they can't just leave nothing there, with wires hanging. They have to replace it with another light (usually just a builder-grade fixture, though, not something of the buyer's choosing). The electric fireplace, I'd let it go... it's not a feature of the house. To me, it's the same as them taking their bed or their couch. And you can buy a new one for a few hundred dollars. Not worth losing a house over it, imo!
But I would just try to put aside the anger and try to find common ground on this, if you want the house. These aren't high value items, so to me not a big deal to exclude, although they didn't go about it the right way AT ALL!
Good luck!
I wouldn't lose the house over this stuff but honestly the homeowners and realtor decided to market the house with the fireplace, so I believe we should get it!! The mirrors are affixed to the wall and they are nice, I don't want them replaced with cheap stuff from Home Depot!
This is just so silly because they are supposedly so in a rush to close early, yet they pull this move?! I'm not gonna back down just yet lol
I definitely understand your anger! The path to home ownership doesn't always run smooth.. hopefully this is the last problem you encounter.
Very odd that they marketed the home with a fireplace! Quite misleading... I would be annoyed if I had a buyer who had a fireplace as a "must have" and I brought them to a house with an electric, decorative fireplace that was essentially a piece of furniture! LOL. I wonder if the listing agent made a mistake and thought it was real? That is really a strange mix up... been doing this for awhile and this is a new one!
I am sure it will work out in the end. These things usually do.
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| Posted 2/19/14 4:39 PM |
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MrsG823
Just call me Mommy.
Member since 1/11 5570 total posts
Name:
S
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2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
If the house was listed with a fire place it seems strange that the sellers now want to take it with them but like a pp said if it is not a permanent part of the house it can be considered personal property. As for the mirrors many times sellers will decide to take them- when we bought our house our sellers went back and forth on what mirrors and light fixtures they wanted to take- DH and I did not feel small finishes like that were deal breakers and they were things that the previous owners bought to decorate. We just made sure they included a list of what they were taking in the contract so there was no problem later- we did stipulate that if they took a fixture a properly installed replacement must be put in its place-they ended up installing very inexpensive fixtures to replace what they took.
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| Posted 2/19/14 7:21 PM |
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ISpoilHim
I think I got this
Member since 11/10 1523 total posts
Name:
K
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2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
I would be more upset that an electric fireplace was listed as a fireplace. That to me is a bigger issue. But in the grand scheme if the house is what you really want I wouldn't argue over a fireplace and some mirrors. When we bought the sellers took the mirror over the vanity I never even thought about it at the time. We went to home goods and replaced the mirror with a beautiful one for about $50. Fireplaces are not that expensive and you can get one that you really like.
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| Posted 2/20/14 8:47 AM |
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FirstMate
My lil cowboy
Member since 10/10 7790 total posts
Name:
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Re: 2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
Posted by Century 21 Dallow - Christine Braun
Truthfully - I would NOT sit back and let the attorneys battle it out. Too often, that doesn't have great results. I would try to have the agents discuss it and come to a reasonable agreement. Sometimes with the attorneys, egos get in the way. Also, the attorneys have never seen the house, the items at issue, and they don't know the backstory or negotiations that led up to the agreement on the offer. The agents usually have a better handle on those things and better perspective on the transaction.
As an attorney who handles real estate transactions, I could not agree more with this statement. Attorneys are supposed to facilitate real estate deals but many attorneys did not get the memo (and, let's face it, it's in our nature to argue).
I advise my clients that anything that is not attached to the house is the sellers. I explain that if you turn the house upside down like your purse, whatever can come out is the sellers possessions. That would include an electric fireplace and decorative mirrors. I would argue about any mirrors that were on the wall in say a bathroom as part of a vanity. If they want to take them, they need to replace them with comparable mirrors prior to closing.
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| Posted 2/20/14 11:31 PM |
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Dee0522
And then there were four...
Member since 6/09 2088 total posts
Name:
Denise
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Re: 2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
Posted by ISpoilHim
I would be more upset that an electric fireplace was listed as a fireplace. That to me is a bigger issue. But in the grand scheme if the house is what you really want I wouldn't argue over a fireplace and some mirrors. When we bought the sellers took the mirror over the vanity I never even thought about it at the time. We went to home goods and replaced the mirror with a beautiful one for about $50. Fireplaces are not that expensive and you can get one that you really like.
Agreed. They should NOT have included a fireplace in the listing unless it was built-in. We actually had a similar issue when we bought our house... the listing said the house had a fireplace but when we saw it, it was just a hole in a brick wall. You could put a wood burning stove in, or a gas fireplace insert, but there was nothing currently there. We made an offer and they accepted and then we asked them for a $5k credit since the listing incorrectly stated that there was a fireplace (which one would assume was functional). They ended up meeting us halfway with a $2,500 credit.
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| Posted 2/21/14 2:32 PM |
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CSK
LIF Adolescent
Member since 9/11 892 total posts
Name:
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Re: 2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
Posted by Dee0522
Posted by ISpoilHim
I would be more upset that an electric fireplace was listed as a fireplace. That to me is a bigger issue. But in the grand scheme if the house is what you really want I wouldn't argue over a fireplace and some mirrors. When we bought the sellers took the mirror over the vanity I never even thought about it at the time. We went to home goods and replaced the mirror with a beautiful one for about $50. Fireplaces are not that expensive and you can get one that you really like.
Agreed. They should NOT have included a fireplace in the listing unless it was built-in. We actually had a similar issue when we bought our house... the listing said the house had a fireplace but when we saw it, it was just a hole in a brick wall. You could put a wood burning stove in, or a gas fireplace insert, but there was nothing currently there. We made an offer and they accepted and then we asked them for a $5k credit since the listing incorrectly stated that there was a fireplace (which one would assume was functional). They ended up meeting us halfway with a $2,500 credit.
Did you buy the house based upon the listing or actually see the house?
you saw the house as is.... its not like they took something away since you saw it?
sounds like you just strong armed them on a technicality to put $$ in your pocket when you weren't harmed at all
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| Posted 2/21/14 3:10 PM |
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Ian&EmmesMommy23
My family is complete!
Member since 11/08 12970 total posts
Name:
Diana
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2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
after i signed my contract the sellers tried to say they wanted to take the light fixtures. i told them if they wanted them they had to pay me $150 per fixture. after all at that point they're my fixtures. we ended up agreeing that they leave all but one fixture and they replaced it.
in your case the fireplace stays...no discussion on that. the mirrors...you can say they have to replace them or pay you for them because it is a fixture. or you can let that go. but remember if they take it its an expense that you have to replace.
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| Posted 2/21/14 3:41 PM |
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d-h2008
LIF Adult
Member since 10/09 2490 total posts
Name:
D EDD: 8/29/2010
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2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
Ok so here's the deal... Our lawyer got us the fireplace and the mirrors but now I feel bad cause there is a backstory to those mirrors. The sellers mother just died a few months ago and those mirrors were something they bought together....
So now I'm the one going back telling them to keep the mirrors! If it's that sentimental I would hate to keep them...
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| Posted 2/21/14 5:04 PM |
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jessnbrian
Only God knows His plan for us
Member since 4/13 7238 total posts
Name:
Jessica
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Re: 2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
Posted by Century 21 Dallow - Christine Braun
The path to home ownership doesn't always run smooth..
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couldn't have said it better myself!
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| Posted 2/21/14 5:12 PM |
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NYCGirl80
I love my kiddies!
Member since 5/11 10413 total posts
Name:
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Re: 2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
Posted by d-h2008
Ok so here's the deal... Our lawyer got us the fireplace and the mirrors but now I feel bad cause there is a backstory to those mirrors. The sellers mother just died a few months ago and those mirrors were something they bought together....
So now I'm the one going back telling them to keep the mirrors! If it's that sentimental I would hate to keep them...
I'd just tell them to replace the mirrors with something else. Or, figure out a price point, have them credit you, and buy something in your own style. It seems silly to get hung up on mirrors. No point in making bad blood in the beginning of such a big transaction1
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| Posted 2/23/14 9:52 PM |
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Cheeks24
Living a dream
Member since 1/08 8589 total posts
Name:
Cheeks
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2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
I would tell them to just replace the mirrors since they are sentimental to her.
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| Posted 2/25/14 9:16 AM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
Name:
That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
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Re: 2 issues coming up in contract... Opinions?
If the fireplace was not in the contract and it's one thats removeable/plugged in an outlet forget it. As the PP said if you can turn the house upside down and it falls then it's the sellers.
What's in the real estate listing isn't binding. What's in the contract is.
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| Posted 2/25/14 5:06 PM |
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