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jlm2008
LIF Adult
Member since 1/10 5092 total posts
Name:
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Re: Plastic bag ban
Posted by RainyDay
Posted by ali120206
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by RainyDay
Ok so now that paper bags would be used instead of plastic, why weren't these the alternative from the get go? Why not just offer the paper bags and not charge the .05. Now they are going to provide paper and still charge?
Not an answer , but more like a comment...I don't know how old most of you ladies on this thread are, but I think it's funny how when I was a kid all the bags in stores were paper, but then they decided that was ruining the environment and we went to plastic!!!! Anybody else this old???
Me! All the double bagging at the grocery store. And using the bags for book covers lol.
I think there is a $0.05 fee for the paper bags though starting on 3/1.
I remember the book covers!!
Yes , the book covers!!! Catholic School all our books had to be covered in paper bags, even the workbooks! But hey, we were recycling!
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Posted 2/22/20 1:55 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
Long Island's Largest Bridal Resource |
MC09
arrrghhh!!!!
Member since 2/09 5674 total posts
Name:
Me speaks pirate!
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Re: Plastic bag ban
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by queensgal
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by RainyDay
I hate visiting LI now. No bags, paper straws, what next?
McD's switched to paper straws. It shook me. I loved their slightly wider than normal plastic straws. The soda always tasted better through them. I actually read something once about why the fountain soda tasted better at McDs and there was several reasons but the straws were one of them .
The paper straws are gross. I hate how they feel in my mouth. Its akin to that feeling of nails on a chalk board for me. It gives me chills. Then it starts to dissolve and loose its shape in the liquid and renders itself useless.
I have to remember to start carrying plastic straws in my purse along with my Truvia packets that I carry for coffee!
Get a reusable straw (stainless or silicone). Or just don’t use one.
Some of these posts, why do you people hate the environment? These are a bunch of very small and simple changes to get used to.
Oh yes I completely hate the environment  . Do you seriously think it's the straws and bags destroying it???? Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the Industrial Revolution???? And I don't know you personally, so not attacking you , but I find the people who complain about straws have 2,000+ sq ft houses, drive Minivans & huge SUV's ( just see how many when the car posts come up) have multiple kids who they shuttle to every imaginable activity in said Mininvans...come on. With that said, I'm all for these bans, but it's not really the problem.
And let's add that these bans are only on the consumer end. No bans on oil spills, fossil fuels, fracking, manufacturing waste, dumping, etc. I don't have a problem with these bans either, but let's get real, until these companies are penalized for their actions and the waste they create and strictly regulated banning all the bags and straws on the planet isn't going to make the slightest dent on the problem. Let's face it, humans screwed themselves. There are no solutions. This has been an ongoing problem for too long and it's basically too late.
So yeah, use all the bags, use all the straws and just enjoy the descent 
Eta: Amazon packaging is as ridiculous as CVS receipts that can stretch for miles. Nobody is banning their waste, but yeah dissolvable paper straws are going to make a difference.
Message edited 2/22/2020 4:51:11 PM.
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| Posted 2/22/20 4:44 PM |
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MC09
arrrghhh!!!!
Member since 2/09 5674 total posts
Name:
Me speaks pirate!
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Re: Plastic bag ban
Posted by Sash
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by Sparrow
Aren't the other bag options just as bad/possibly worse than the plastic bags we've been using? I keep reading articles that say this. If we're looking to protect the environment, buying mass quantities of reusable bags isn't much better.
I also read that the factories that make those god awful paper straws that are dissolving into mush in drinks everywhere- are polluting the environment and causing more damage than the plastic straws themselves- so, yeah.
I don't know what the answer is to be honest.
I hate paper straws, they don’t withhold and who enjoys swallowing mushy paper with their drink. Gross.
I had to replace a paper straw like 5x recently because it kept melting on contact with my drink lol. How is that less wasteful?
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| Posted 2/22/20 4:55 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Plastic bag ban
Posted by MC09
Posted by jlm2008
Posted by queensgal
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by RainyDay
I hate visiting LI now. No bags, paper straws, what next?
McD's switched to paper straws. It shook me. I loved their slightly wider than normal plastic straws. The soda always tasted better through them. I actually read something once about why the fountain soda tasted better at McDs and there was several reasons but the straws were one of them .
The paper straws are gross. I hate how they feel in my mouth. Its akin to that feeling of nails on a chalk board for me. It gives me chills. Then it starts to dissolve and loose its shape in the liquid and renders itself useless.
I have to remember to start carrying plastic straws in my purse along with my Truvia packets that I carry for coffee!
Get a reusable straw (stainless or silicone). Or just don’t use one.
Some of these posts, why do you people hate the environment? These are a bunch of very small and simple changes to get used to.
Oh yes I completely hate the environment . Do you seriously think it's the straws and bags destroying it???? Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the Industrial Revolution???? And I don't know you personally, so not attacking you , but I find the people who complain about straws have 2,000+ sq ft houses, drive Minivans & huge SUV's ( just see how many when the car posts come up) have multiple kids who they shuttle to every imaginable activity in said Mininvans...come on. With that said, I'm all for these bans, but it's not really the problem.
And let's add that these bans are only on the consumer end. No bans on oil spills, fossil fuels, fracking, manufacturing waste, dumping, etc. I don't have a problem with these bans either, but let's get real, until these companies are penalized for their actions and the waste they create and strictly regulated banning all the bags and straws on the planet isn't going to make the slightest dent on the problem. Let's face it, humans screwed themselves. There are no solutions. This has been an ongoing problem for too long and it's basically too late.
So yeah, use all the bags, use all the straws and just enjoy the descent
Eta: Amazon packaging is as ridiculous as CVS receipts that can stretch for miles. Nobody is banning their waste, but yeah dissolvable paper straws are going to make a difference.
So true.
But if walking around with a reusable grocery bag and a silicone straw in your purse makes you feel good about yourself and so much more progressive, have at it!
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| Posted 2/22/20 9:06 PM |
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LuckyStar
LIF Adult
Member since 7/14 7274 total posts
Name:
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Plastic bag ban
The best way to help the environment is to have fewer kids. I have one kid so I'm allowed a plastic straw every once in a while.
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| Posted 2/22/20 10:29 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11487 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: Plastic bag ban
Sorry, but I find this post funny with everyone complaining about “how there is so much packaging everywhere, so why is there a ban on plastic bags?”.
Why is it so bad to do things slowly and take all the steps you can? If 7 billion people all said F this, I do my part, I can have my plastic straw or bag every now and then, can you imagine the waste from that. Just do what you can and possible to live a life without less plastic.
I don’t understand the straw thing anyway. I haven’t used a straw in years. I very rarely drink anything that needs a straw. And you don’t really “need” a straw.
In addition, if carbon taxes were better (higher), then companies will eventually be paying more for their packaging.
These changes need to happen slowly. I do still think they should offer plastic bags, but at a higher price. Then they can bring on the full ban. Where I live they have had the charge on plastic bags (and paper) for as long as I can remember (2003 and possibly longer). I got used to it. However, I didn’t really know a world where I did lots of food shopping, so it didn’t really bother me to use a reusable bag (my mom did most of the shopping  ). The ban here starts soon. For the very few times I buy a bag, then it might suck, but I’ll get used to it.
With a small change like this, the younger generation will be able to adapt (that’s if they even survive). This thread has “OK Boomer” written all over it.
ETA: mall stores also charge for plastic bags here.
Message edited 2/23/2020 6:09:05 AM.
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| Posted 2/23/20 6:00 AM |
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PhyllisNJoe
My Box Is Broken
Member since 6/11 9145 total posts
Name:
Phyllis
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Re: Plastic bag ban
Posted by klingklang77
I don’t understand the straw thing anyway. I haven’t used a straw in years. I very rarely drink anything that needs a straw. And you don’t really “need” a straw.
.
When it comes to this, I need a straw. My teeth are super sensitive. I cannot have cold water go right onto my teeth. At home, I use my water cup that has a silicone straw (which even tho I clean it a lot, I have to replace it once per month because I think it’s disgusting and there HAS to be germs lingering in there)
When I’m out, I refuse to put my mouth on the glasses even if my teeth were fine. I use the straws restaurants give me. The paper ones, they start to soften and fall apart before I even finish my drink and the thought of whatever chemicals are used to make them are now floating in my drink makes me want to gag. That’ll be next. Cancer from paper straw chemicals within the next 10 years.
So since the paper straw switch, I will be bringing my own straw in my bag when I can remember. And I will be buying straw every month because cleaning them isn’t enough.
I don’t mind the small changes here and there. I also don’t mind the bag thing if they gave us the paper bags for free. Or if they had to charge, the money made went to help the environment. It feels like just another way to screw the consumer.
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| Posted 2/23/20 8:01 AM |
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LIFAdmin
LIF Infant
Member since 3/07 363 total posts
Name:
LIF
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Re: Plastic bag ban
We have reusable stainless steel straws that came with a brush. Have had them for years. We love them. Use every morning with my smoothie.
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| Posted 2/23/20 8:09 AM |
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valentinesbaby
LIF Adult
Member since 2/20 900 total posts
Name:
Valentines
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Re: Plastic bag ban
Posted by klingklang77
Sorry, but I find this post funny with everyone complaining about “how there is so much packaging everywhere, so why is there a ban on plastic bags?”.
Why is it so bad to do things slowly and take all the steps you can? If 7 billion people all said F this, I do my part, I can have my plastic straw or bag every now and then, can you imagine the waste from that. Just do what you can and possible to live a life without less plastic.
I don’t understand the straw thing anyway. I haven’t used a straw in years. I very rarely drink anything that needs a straw. And you don’t really “need” a straw.
In addition, if carbon taxes were better (higher), then companies will eventually be paying more for their packaging.
These changes need to happen slowly. I do still think they should offer plastic bags, but at a higher price. Then they can bring on the full ban. Where I live they have had the charge on plastic bags (and paper) for as long as I can remember (2003 and possibly longer). I got used to it. However, I didn’t really know a world where I did lots of food shopping, so it didn’t really bother me to use a reusable bag (my mom did most of the shopping ). The ban here starts soon. For the very few times I buy a bag, then it might suck, but I’ll get used to it.
With a small change like this, the younger generation will be able to adapt (that’s if they even survive). This thread has “OK Boomer” written all over it.
ETA: mall stores also charge for plastic bags here.
Only shopping for yourself and not a family of 5 or 6 that spends a lot of money every week which requires many, many bags does not compare. Yes you can bring your own bags but you are also bagging all of this stuff up while the cashier has always done it while checking you out. It is quite exhausting honestly sometimes and eventually these reusable plastic bags have to be thrown away too. I have no problem with paper as it reminds me when I was a kid.
As for straws, I don’t like drinking from a cup either at a restaurant. I am not OCD either but people are gross.
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| Posted 2/23/20 8:17 AM |
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PhyllisNJoe
My Box Is Broken
Member since 6/11 9145 total posts
Name:
Phyllis
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Re: Plastic bag ban
Posted by LIFAdmin
We have reusable stainless steel straws that came with a brush. Have had them for years. We love them. Use every morning with my smoothie.
I tried and failed with the stainless straws. My water tasted like metal. And I felt like they were rusting Inside. Could have been my mind, could have been true. Can’t see in there but just reading this reply got me Queasy. My husband likes the stainless. He even uses a stainless water jug. I can’t even look at him drink from it without gagging
Message edited 2/23/2020 8:21:06 AM.
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| Posted 2/23/20 8:20 AM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Plastic bag ban
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by LIFAdmin
We have reusable stainless steel straws that came with a brush. Have had them for years. We love them. Use every morning with my smoothie.
I tried and failed with the stainless straws. My water tasted like metal. And I felt like they were rusting Inside. Could have been my mind, could have been true. Can’t see in there but just reading this reply got me Queasy. My husband likes the stainless. He even uses a stainless water jug. I can’t even look at him drink from it without gagging
DH uses one in his coffee because his dentist yelled at him about a lot of staining on the back of his teeth. I personally hate metal straws. I feel like I am going to chip a tooth on it and like you said the taste of metal is awful. I was in a bar in the city and they served my drink with one and it absolutely ruined the drink. I kept thinking my gums were bleeding because the metallic taste was overpowering.
What if we use plastic straws and just wash them out after and reuse. I do that a lot at home. It seems like a waste to dump them after one quick use anyway.
Bam, multi use!
Message edited 2/23/2020 8:34:16 AM.
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| Posted 2/23/20 8:26 AM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Plastic bag ban
Posted by LuckyStar
The best way to help the environment is to have fewer kids. I have one kid so I'm allowed a plastic straw every once in a while.
Same!!!
We need more population control to be 100% honest
Message edited 2/23/2020 8:29:45 AM.
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| Posted 2/23/20 8:27 AM |
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M514
Hi
Member since 8/10 6011 total posts
Name:
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Re: Plastic bag ban
Posted by valentinesbaby
Posted by klingklang77
Sorry, but I find this post funny with everyone complaining about “how there is so much packaging everywhere, so why is there a ban on plastic bags?”.
Why is it so bad to do things slowly and take all the steps you can? If 7 billion people all said F this, I do my part, I can have my plastic straw or bag every now and then, can you imagine the waste from that. Just do what you can and possible to live a life without less plastic.
I don’t understand the straw thing anyway. I haven’t used a straw in years. I very rarely drink anything that needs a straw. And you don’t really “need” a straw.
In addition, if carbon taxes were better (higher), then companies will eventually be paying more for their packaging.
These changes need to happen slowly. I do still think they should offer plastic bags, but at a higher price. Then they can bring on the full ban. Where I live they have had the charge on plastic bags (and paper) for as long as I can remember (2003 and possibly longer). I got used to it. However, I didn’t really know a world where I did lots of food shopping, so it didn’t really bother me to use a reusable bag (my mom did most of the shopping ). The ban here starts soon. For the very few times I buy a bag, then it might suck, but I’ll get used to it.
With a small change like this, the younger generation will be able to adapt (that’s if they even survive). This thread has “OK Boomer” written all over it.
ETA: mall stores also charge for plastic bags here.
Only shopping for yourself and not a family of 5 or 6 that spends a lot of money every week which requires many, many bags does not compare. Yes you can bring your own bags but you are also bagging all of this stuff up while the cashier has always done it while checking you out. It is quite exhausting honestly sometimes and eventually these reusable plastic bags have to be thrown away too. I have no problem with paper as it reminds me when I was a kid.
As for straws, I don’t like drinking from a cup either at a restaurant. I am not OCD either but people are gross.
Yes I agree! I also run multiple errands at a time (supermarket, Target, Iavarone’s, etc...)and I know I’m going to run out of reusable bags just going to all those stores.
I hate drinking out of the cups at restaurants. It just seems so gross to me and I need a straw.
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| Posted 2/23/20 8:30 AM |
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RainyDay
LIF Adult
Member since 6/15 3990 total posts
Name:
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Re: Plastic bag ban
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by LIFAdmin
We have reusable stainless steel straws that came with a brush. Have had them for years. We love them. Use every morning with my smoothie.
I tried and failed with the stainless straws. My water tasted like metal. And I felt like they were rusting Inside. Could have been my mind, could have been true. Can’t see in there but just reading this reply got me Queasy. My husband likes the stainless. He even uses a stainless water jug. I can’t even look at him drink from it without gagging
DH uses one in his coffee because his dentist yelled at him about a lot of staining on the back of his teeth. I personally hate metal straws. I feel like I am going to chip a tooth on it and like you said the taste of metal is awful. I was in a bar in the city and they served my drink with one and it absolutely ruined the drink. I kept thinking my gums were bleeding because the metallic taste was overpowering.
What if we use plastic straws and just wash them out after and reuse. I do that a lot at home. It seems like a waste to dump them after one quick use anyway.
Bam, multi use!
I thought I was crazy for thinking the same thing. I dont even use those metal water bottles.
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| Posted 2/23/20 9:43 AM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11487 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: Plastic bag ban
Posted by valentinesbaby
Posted by klingklang77
Sorry, but I find this post funny with everyone complaining about “how there is so much packaging everywhere, so why is there a ban on plastic bags?”.
Why is it so bad to do things slowly and take all the steps you can? If 7 billion people all said F this, I do my part, I can have my plastic straw or bag every now and then, can you imagine the waste from that. Just do what you can and possible to live a life without less plastic.
I don’t understand the straw thing anyway. I haven’t used a straw in years. I very rarely drink anything that needs a straw. And you don’t really “need” a straw.
In addition, if carbon taxes were better (higher), then companies will eventually be paying more for their packaging.
These changes need to happen slowly. I do still think they should offer plastic bags, but at a higher price. Then they can bring on the full ban. Where I live they have had the charge on plastic bags (and paper) for as long as I can remember (2003 and possibly longer). I got used to it. However, I didn’t really know a world where I did lots of food shopping, so it didn’t really bother me to use a reusable bag (my mom did most of the shopping ). The ban here starts soon. For the very few times I buy a bag, then it might suck, but I’ll get used to it.
With a small change like this, the younger generation will be able to adapt (that’s if they even survive). This thread has “OK Boomer” written all over it.
ETA: mall stores also charge for plastic bags here.
Only shopping for yourself and not a family of 5 or 6 that spends a lot of money every week which requires many, many bags does not compare. Yes you can bring your own bags but you are also bagging all of this stuff up while the cashier has always done it while checking you out. It is quite exhausting honestly sometimes and eventually these reusable plastic bags have to be thrown away too. I have no problem with paper as it reminds me when I was a kid.
As for straws, I don’t like drinking from a cup either at a restaurant. I am not OCD either but people are gross.
Everybody does it here— kids or not. I shop for 2 people. Cashiers don’t bag for you plastic bag or not. You get used to it and get a system down. Also most people shop a few times a week. Other countries can do it. I don’t see why the US can’t.
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| Posted 2/23/20 3:59 PM |
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VickiC
Rocking the party
Member since 5/05 4937 total posts
Name:
Vicki
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Re: Plastic bag ban
Posted by klingklang77
Posted by valentinesbaby
Posted by klingklang77
Sorry, but I find this post funny with everyone complaining about “how there is so much packaging everywhere, so why is there a ban on plastic bags?”.
Why is it so bad to do things slowly and take all the steps you can? If 7 billion people all said F this, I do my part, I can have my plastic straw or bag every now and then, can you imagine the waste from that. Just do what you can and possible to live a life without less plastic.
I don’t understand the straw thing anyway. I haven’t used a straw in years. I very rarely drink anything that needs a straw. And you don’t really “need” a straw.
In addition, if carbon taxes were better (higher), then companies will eventually be paying more for their packaging.
These changes need to happen slowly. I do still think they should offer plastic bags, but at a higher price. Then they can bring on the full ban. Where I live they have had the charge on plastic bags (and paper) for as long as I can remember (2003 and possibly longer). I got used to it. However, I didn’t really know a world where I did lots of food shopping, so it didn’t really bother me to use a reusable bag (my mom did most of the shopping ). The ban here starts soon. For the very few times I buy a bag, then it might suck, but I’ll get used to it.
With a small change like this, the younger generation will be able to adapt (that’s if they even survive). This thread has “OK Boomer” written all over it.
ETA: mall stores also charge for plastic bags here.
Only shopping for yourself and not a family of 5 or 6 that spends a lot of money every week which requires many, many bags does not compare. Yes you can bring your own bags but you are also bagging all of this stuff up while the cashier has always done it while checking you out. It is quite exhausting honestly sometimes and eventually these reusable plastic bags have to be thrown away too. I have no problem with paper as it reminds me when I was a kid.
As for straws, I don’t like drinking from a cup either at a restaurant. I am not OCD either but people are gross.
Everybody does it here— kids or not. I shop for 2 people. Cashiers don’t bag for you plastic bag or not. You get used to it and get a system down. Also most people shop a few times a week. Other countries can do it. I don’t see why the US can’t.
I'm shopping for 4 people and have no issue using these reusable bags every week. Some bags I've had for around 8 years and yes, I can throw them in the washing machine to wash them every so often. I don't even remember the last time a cashier helped me bag since I'm bagging as they are ringing it all up. I've gone from 10-12 plastic bags (or more) down to 2-3 reusable bags per trip.
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| Posted 2/23/20 5:09 PM |
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MichLiz213
Life is Good!
Member since 7/07 7979 total posts
Name:
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Plastic bag ban
We got used to using reusable bags for years because we lived in a second floor apartment and it was easier to carry those bags up in one to two trips with a baby/toddler than the regular ones.
We went out to lunch last week at a restaurant that used agave straws and I thought those were pretty sturdy.
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| Posted 2/23/20 6:31 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11487 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: Plastic bag ban
Posted by VickiC
Posted by klingklang77
Posted by valentinesbaby
Posted by klingklang77
Sorry, but I find this post funny with everyone complaining about “how there is so much packaging everywhere, so why is there a ban on plastic bags?”.
Why is it so bad to do things slowly and take all the steps you can? If 7 billion people all said F this, I do my part, I can have my plastic straw or bag every now and then, can you imagine the waste from that. Just do what you can and possible to live a life without less plastic.
I don’t understand the straw thing anyway. I haven’t used a straw in years. I very rarely drink anything that needs a straw. And you don’t really “need” a straw.
In addition, if carbon taxes were better (higher), then companies will eventually be paying more for their packaging.
These changes need to happen slowly. I do still think they should offer plastic bags, but at a higher price. Then they can bring on the full ban. Where I live they have had the charge on plastic bags (and paper) for as long as I can remember (2003 and possibly longer). I got used to it. However, I didn’t really know a world where I did lots of food shopping, so it didn’t really bother me to use a reusable bag (my mom did most of the shopping ). The ban here starts soon. For the very few times I buy a bag, then it might suck, but I’ll get used to it.
With a small change like this, the younger generation will be able to adapt (that’s if they even survive). This thread has “OK Boomer” written all over it.
ETA: mall stores also charge for plastic bags here.
Only shopping for yourself and not a family of 5 or 6 that spends a lot of money every week which requires many, many bags does not compare. Yes you can bring your own bags but you are also bagging all of this stuff up while the cashier has always done it while checking you out. It is quite exhausting honestly sometimes and eventually these reusable plastic bags have to be thrown away too. I have no problem with paper as it reminds me when I was a kid.
As for straws, I don’t like drinking from a cup either at a restaurant. I am not OCD either but people are gross.
Everybody does it here— kids or not. I shop for 2 people. Cashiers don’t bag for you plastic bag or not. You get used to it and get a system down. Also most people shop a few times a week. Other countries can do it. I don’t see why the US can’t.
I'm shopping for 4 people and have no issue using these reusable bags every week. Some bags I've had for around 8 years and yes, I can throw them in the washing machine to wash them every so often. I don't even remember the last time a cashier helped me bag since I'm bagging as they are ringing it all up. I've gone from 10-12 plastic bags (or more) down to 2-3 reusable bags per trip.
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| Posted 2/23/20 8:38 PM |
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Re: Plastic bag ban
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by LuckyStar
The best way to help the environment is to have fewer kids. I have one kid so I'm allowed a plastic straw every once in a while.
Same!!!
We need more population control to be 100% honest
I believe Britain has it structured that you only get tax benefits for your first two children, which in theory would encourage fewer children.
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| Posted 2/24/20 6:56 AM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11487 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: Plastic bag ban
Posted by mommywantsababy
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by LuckyStar
The best way to help the environment is to have fewer kids. I have one kid so I'm allowed a plastic straw every once in a while.
Same!!!
We need more population control to be 100% honest
I believe Britain has it structured that you only get tax benefits for your first two children, which in theory would encourage fewer children.
Yes, but I think that will change with Brexit. I’m actually really not sure about what the UK does/did because everything is so up in the air.
AFAIK, You get additional benefits in the EU. There is a certain amount you get paid per month for child and you also get parent money per month, in addition. Plus you get a tax benefit. At least that is how it works in Germany.
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| Posted 2/24/20 5:36 PM |
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| Pages: 1 2 [3] |
