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A different spin on presidential candidates...
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Kitten1929
LIF Adult
Member since 1/13 6040 total posts
Name:
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Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by Kitten1929
Look, I get where some of you are coming from. You worked really hard to earn a good income and you don't want it eaten up in taxes or social programs for the less fortunate. I just think it's important to understand the how or why; for example, if you lived at home, had family financial support, etc, and to recognize that that is oftentimes not the reality for many people. So I don't think it's fair to condemn people to a bleak existence because they weren't born the right color, or with the right finances, or with the right advantages.
If healthcare and higher education is not a right, then that would be a classist society in which only the rich or upwardly mobile have access to the tools necessary to live a successful life. And we had a society like that for thousands of years. It leaves no room for betterment, and I find that so troubling.
I can't understand why you just seem to not get the fact that not everyone has had the support you mentioned OR support from the government and yet we still made it. Why is that hard for you? Are you going to say because of my skin color? Or the fact that I worked for $5.50 an hour, 14-16 hrs a day, wore clothes from the thrift shop that would be suitable office attire and slept on the floor of a basement apartment for 2 years until I could save enough to get my mother and I a suitable apartment. It took me 5 years of very long days and nights, struggling to learn a world I didn't understand (corporate world-my family was all blue collar) a Young WOMAN in a mans world, to work my way up to a better salary, better benefits and better lifestyle all around.
I did that.
My mother didn't
The government didn't
All me. And I think that's why I am able to look around and say WORK FOR IT. Show a sign of trying.
What I do agree with government funding for:
1. If a student is getting good grades. Doesn't have to be straight As, but let's be honest - D students (without an obvious learning disability - and no, being poor and hungry isn't a disability bc I was also that growing up and was an honor student ) they should have HELP paying for higher education. Not a FREE RIDE. free ride reaches Zero appreciation for hard work in my eyes.
2. Woman with children who need assistance after husband leaves, she leaves bad marriage, etc. help her get back on her feet. She was doing right by her kids and trying to help them learn what a good life is like. Yes. She needs help. Schooling, some $$ to get by while she learns. If she's flunking out, take it all away.
3. Senior citizens. This is a soft spot for me. The elderly are the least cared for in our society. I look at the elderly the same way I would look at a baby. They need guidance. Thy need help bc a lot are sick and frail and cannot help themselves.
4. Veterans. No explanation needed.
Able bodied people who choose to not push themselves further are not my responsibility. Or they will be if sanders has any shot
I'm not discrediting anyone's hard work. But you can't so easily dismiss that there people who struggle in a vicious cycle of poverty all while trying to do exactly what you did. I'm not saying people can't make an effort, or that they are just asking for a free ride. So how do we overcome such disparities?
Case in point: I know this is ancedotal, but a man I work with blatantly said he got where he was because he is white, that he does not want to have his taxes taken to fund programs for the less fortunate because "they are not his problem" and that even as difficult as it was for him to get where he is he still doesn't think everyone's lot in life is to achieve something better. Sometimes your lot is just that and any attempt to better yourself is futile because the system is designed to make most people fail.
While I do not share his sentiments, I at least can mildly appreciate his candor and his ability to unabashedly own his beliefs instead of pretending to be a caring person who really isn't. (this statement is not directed to anyone on this thread, just an observation of who that person is my life and how I view him).
Message edited 3/4/2016 8:47:14 AM.
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Posted 3/4/16 8:35 AM  |
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PhyllisNJoe
My Box Is Broken
Member since 6/11 9145 total posts
Name:
Phyllis
|
Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Posted by Kitten1929
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by Kitten1929
Look, I get where some of you are coming from. You worked really hard to earn a good income and you don't want it eaten up in taxes or social programs for the less fortunate. I just think it's important to understand the how or why; for example, if you lived at home, had family financial support, etc, and to recognize that that is oftentimes not the reality for many people. So I don't think it's fair to condemn people to a bleak existence because they weren't born the right color, or with the right finances, or with the right advantages.
If healthcare and higher education is not a right, then that would be a classist society in which only the rich or upwardly mobile have access to the tools necessary to live a successful life. And we had a society like that for thousands of years. It leaves no room for betterment, and I find that so troubling.
I can't understand why you just seem to not get the fact that not everyone has had the support you mentioned OR support from the government and yet we still made it. Why is that hard for you? Are you going to say because of my skin color? Or the fact that I worked for $5.50 an hour, 14-16 hrs a day, wore clothes from the thrift shop that would be suitable office attire and slept on the floor of a basement apartment for 2 years until I could save enough to get my mother and I a suitable apartment. It took me 5 years of very long days and nights, struggling to learn a world I didn't understand (corporate world-my family was all blue collar) a Young WOMAN in a mans world, to work my way up to a better salary, better benefits and better lifestyle all around.
I did that.
My mother didn't
The government didn't
All me. And I think that's why I am able to look around and say WORK FOR IT. Show a sign of trying.
What I do agree with government funding for:
1. If a student is getting good grades. Doesn't have to be straight As, but let's be honest - D students (without an obvious learning disability - and no, being poor and hungry isn't a disability bc I was also that growing up and was an honor student ) they should have HELP paying for higher education. Not a FREE RIDE. free ride reaches Zero appreciation for hard work in my eyes.
2. Woman with children who need assistance after husband leaves, she leaves bad marriage, etc. help her get back on her feet. She was doing right by her kids and trying to help them learn what a good life is like. Yes. She needs help. Schooling, some $$ to get by while she learns. If she's flunking out, take it all away.
3. Senior citizens. This is a soft spot for me. The elderly are the least cared for in our society. I look at the elderly the same way I would look at a baby. They need guidance. Thy need help bc a lot are sick and frail and cannot help themselves.
4. Veterans. No explanation needed.
Able bodied people who choose to not push themselves further are not my responsibility. Or they will be if sanders has any shot
I'm not discrediting anyone's hard work. But you can't so easily dismiss that there people who struggle in a vicious cycle of poverty all while trying to do exactly what you did. I'm not saying people can't make an effort, or that they are just asking for a free ride. So how do we overcome such disparities?
We are forgetting the first way people learn. From their parents. Families are not talking. Children aren't getting parented. They are not being taught important lessons. It's not the schools job, the parishes job or especially the governments job to teach people from childhood up the value of hard work and pride. That's the first step in overcoming this "give me" world we have become so accustomed to.
I learned from my parents. They worked. And Worked. For a while, when my father got sick, my mother and siblings worked in a factory. Up in the dark, home in the dark.
This is why they stressed my school work and how important it was. My mothers famous quote. "If you don't go to school, you will work". That's it. She told everyone the same thing. We don't sit around and wait for something to come. You go out and get it.
And no... If you are picturing cookies and milk and what some may call the "white standard" parent child talks - you are very wrong. I'll go into that if needed but I think you can tell by what I'm saying, it's wasn't like that at all.
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| Posted 3/4/16 8:43 AM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
In response to small businesses and $15 min wage. I have discussed this with DH in length, and if this is to happen, we will have no choice but to cut our staff significantly. It may not hurt big business - McDonald's or other large chains as much - raising cost of Big Mac or coffee by a crazy amount, but small businesses? It'll definitely be a problem.
I know I've said it before and got bombarded with a lot of people denying this exists but people cheat the system every single day. So much so that the people who NEED it are getting turned away. I know too many people collecting government funding and free health insurance and these people make more money then I do. Off the books, not married on purpose, etc. Then there are senior citizens who have done the work, paid their dues and get shit. I have a close family member who only recieves $1,000 a month in SS and is offered $15 a month in food stamps.
The system is a shit show. It is made for people who know how to cheat it. I am not in favor of giving even more bc as it is, it's not being put to good use.
I have an honest clarifying question here if you would indulge me.
You said before you are in the 1% correct? If not, you are comfortable, correct?
And you know people collecting "government funding" who make more than you?
Could you clarify?
I just don't want to assume or misinterpret anything before I respond to that.
I am comfortable with my salary based on hours worked and convenience of my job. Without saying my personal income (not household which would include my husbands salary) I know of 2 people, close to my life, who take home more money then I do (a lot of cash/off the books) who receive food stamps, free healthcare, free trade school, and at Different times welfare. That's just who I still keep in contact with. My old neighborhood was swarming with crooks who lived off the system bc they could.
ETA: these people know what they are doing and have said on numerous occasions "if I can get it, why not?"
Thank you for sharing.
Respectfully, those are anecdotes. While I don't doubt what you are telling me, it doesn't tell the whole story.
I could share my own anecdotes of people in a lot of need, but why? They're not the big picture any more than yours are.
I'd be interested to know some unbiased statistics on fraud estimates.
In the meantime, I believe the share of people who are gaming the system is very small in proportion to the number of people in true need.
If I'm wrong, I am open to changing my opinion on the way the system works.
But if I'm not, I think a small portion of people gaming the system is something we might need to accept to make sure the people in true need get what they are entitled to.
Obviously fraud needs to be fought - and it is fought - but we can't catch all of them.
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| Posted 3/4/16 8:50 AM |
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PhyllisNJoe
My Box Is Broken
Member since 6/11 9145 total posts
Name:
Phyllis
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Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
In response to small businesses and $15 min wage. I have discussed this with DH in length, and if this is to happen, we will have no choice but to cut our staff significantly. It may not hurt big business - McDonald's or other large chains as much - raising cost of Big Mac or coffee by a crazy amount, but small businesses? It'll definitely be a problem.
I know I've said it before and got bombarded with a lot of people denying this exists but people cheat the system every single day. So much so that the people who NEED it are getting turned away. I know too many people collecting government funding and free health insurance and these people make more money then I do. Off the books, not married on purpose, etc. Then there are senior citizens who have done the work, paid their dues and get shit. I have a close family member who only recieves $1,000 a month in SS and is offered $15 a month in food stamps.
The system is a shit show. It is made for people who know how to cheat it. I am not in favor of giving even more bc as it is, it's not being put to good use.
I have an honest clarifying question here if you would indulge me.
You said before you are in the 1% correct? If not, you are comfortable, correct?
And you know people collecting "government funding" who make more than you?
Could you clarify?
I just don't want to assume or misinterpret anything before I respond to that.
I am comfortable with my salary based on hours worked and convenience of my job. Without saying my personal income (not household which would include my husbands salary) I know of 2 people, close to my life, who take home more money then I do (a lot of cash/off the books) who receive food stamps, free healthcare, free trade school, and at Different times welfare. That's just who I still keep in contact with. My old neighborhood was swarming with crooks who lived off the system bc they could.
ETA: these people know what they are doing and have said on numerous occasions "if I can get it, why not?"
Thank you for sharing.
Respectfully, those are anecdotes. While I don't doubt what you are telling me, it doesn't tell the whole story.
I could share my own anecdotes of people in a lot of need, but why? They're not the big picture any more than yours are.
I'd be interested to know some unbiased statistics on fraud estimates.
In the meantime, I believe the share of people who are gaming the system is very small in proportion to the number of people in true need.
If I'm wrong, I am open to changing my opinion on the way the system works.
But if I'm not, I think a small portion of people gaming the system is something we might need to accept to make sure the people in true need get what they are entitled to.
Obviously fraud needs to be fought - and it is fought - but we can't catch all of them.
Did I, in some way say that I had concrete evidence showing proof of fraud in the system? I did not. I had said many people I know.
Call it how you want, but it's the way I Know it to be. The difference between me and a lot of people on the numerous threads that contain similar subjects is I am not looking to CHANGE anyone's mind. I am giving my views, for what i know to be true in my own life experiences.
ETA: If you believe its a small portion of people who are cheating the system then maybe you should go into some lower income neighborhoods and have a closer look. Growing up, a good portion of my neighbors were doing it. They continue to do so even though they have moved out. An enormous amount of immigrants do so as well. Sometimes you need to take your head out of the books (or websites) and go out and see for yourself.
Message edited 3/4/2016 9:02:58 AM.
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| Posted 3/4/16 9:00 AM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
Posted by Pumpkin1
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
So when people say that they're fiscally conservative… I just don't understand. How do you expect people to live? On $7 an hour? No chance for education? To better themselves?
And, with no public assistance. I agree, the math doesn't make sense. Also, there are numerous studies that, under the current system, it is very difficult to better oneself (i.e. move from poverty to middle-class).
My thoughts: Upward mobility was available to prior generations because their employers invested in them by providing adequate pay and insurance, sometimes education, which fostered upward mobility. In return, employers wanted their employees to stay loyal to them by not leaving their jobs. However, in the 80s, employees stop being loyal and jumped jobs to get pay increases. In return, employers stopped investing in their employees and focused on their bottom lines. Hence, we are in the pickle we are today because employers are longer providing that support to their employees and the government isn't either. Thus, there is class stagnation and only those rich enough to support themselves and their kin have any chance at bettering themselves.
It is a pickle. And it's such a fundamental difference between parties.
Overall I think we should help those who help themselves.
If you're a hardworking, law abiding citizen who is trying to make yourself in a better spot, let's help you get there together.
I do not think college is a privilege.
I know (and read) people think some unfortunate class of citizens just want a handout and they are freeloaders and looking to just get their super higher salary of $15 an hour and be set for life but I'll tell you something - there's A LOT of privileged folks who went off to college and coasted through and got a job at daddy's company because he's related to the CEO and he's the laziest employee. Happens all the time. All the time.
So I'm for the little guy. The little guy who wants to work and stand on his own two feet. I'm all about helping him out. That's just my take on it.
This was the problem with the welfare reform of the 90s (another delightful Clinton legacy.)
If you are going to kick millions of people off of welfare, you need to do something about the minimum wage. It went up by peanuts after welfare reform, from $4.75 to $5.15, but then it languished there for over a DECADE.
I have NO problem with requiring that people work for what they want. I've been working since I was 14.
But let's give people a reason to believe that that work will actually YIELD something.
Where is our paid maternity leave so women can take care of their babies and have time to ease into a childcare situation?
Why do people practically need to mortgage their houses to pay for their kid's college?
I could go on but I have kids coming in.
So many people can't get ahead, and while for many it could be their own fault, perhaps it could also be the fault of a society that does not have the infrastructure in place to help.
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| Posted 3/4/16 9:01 AM |
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Kitten1929
LIF Adult
Member since 1/13 6040 total posts
Name:
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Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
In response to small businesses and $15 min wage. I have discussed this with DH in length, and if this is to happen, we will have no choice but to cut our staff significantly. It may not hurt big business - McDonald's or other large chains as much - raising cost of Big Mac or coffee by a crazy amount, but small businesses? It'll definitely be a problem.
I know I've said it before and got bombarded with a lot of people denying this exists but people cheat the system every single day. So much so that the people who NEED it are getting turned away. I know too many people collecting government funding and free health insurance and these people make more money then I do. Off the books, not married on purpose, etc. Then there are senior citizens who have done the work, paid their dues and get shit. I have a close family member who only recieves $1,000 a month in SS and is offered $15 a month in food stamps.
The system is a shit show. It is made for people who know how to cheat it. I am not in favor of giving even more bc as it is, it's not being put to good use.
I have an honest clarifying question here if you would indulge me.
You said before you are in the 1% correct? If not, you are comfortable, correct?
And you know people collecting "government funding" who make more than you?
Could you clarify?
I just don't want to assume or misinterpret anything before I respond to that.
I am comfortable with my salary based on hours worked and convenience of my job. Without saying my personal income (not household which would include my husbands salary) I know of 2 people, close to my life, who take home more money then I do (a lot of cash/off the books) who receive food stamps, free healthcare, free trade school, and at Different times welfare. That's just who I still keep in contact with. My old neighborhood was swarming with crooks who lived off the system bc they could.
ETA: these people know what they are doing and have said on numerous occasions "if I can get it, why not?"
Thank you for sharing.
Respectfully, those are anecdotes. While I don't doubt what you are telling me, it doesn't tell the whole story.
I could share my own anecdotes of people in a lot of need, but why? They're not the big picture any more than yours are.
I'd be interested to know some unbiased statistics on fraud estimates.
In the meantime, I believe the share of people who are gaming the system is very small in proportion to the number of people in true need.
If I'm wrong, I am open to changing my opinion on the way the system works.
But if I'm not, I think a small portion of people gaming the system is something we might need to accept to make sure the people in true need get what they are entitled to.
Obviously fraud needs to be fought - and it is fought - but we can't catch all of them.
I agree and I think there is also a misplaced contempt for the average American who receives social assistance and yet none for the corporations who commit corporate fraud and tax evasions on an infinitely larger scale.
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| Posted 3/4/16 9:01 AM |
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mnmsoinlove
Mommy to 2 sweet girls!
Member since 3/09 8585 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Posted by ElizaRags35
Pro choice
In support of women's rights
Wants stricter gun laws
Supports healthcare reform (not necessarily ACA as is but something other than what we had previously)
Supports gay marriage
Believes in climate change
A president needs to be diplomatic, not fly off the handle, a firm leader but doesn't alienate or degrades his or her citizens.
I agree word for word! One of the most important issues for me is Gun Control. I believe stricter laws are needed.
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| Posted 3/4/16 9:01 AM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
In response to small businesses and $15 min wage. I have discussed this with DH in length, and if this is to happen, we will have no choice but to cut our staff significantly. It may not hurt big business - McDonald's or other large chains as much - raising cost of Big Mac or coffee by a crazy amount, but small businesses? It'll definitely be a problem.
I know I've said it before and got bombarded with a lot of people denying this exists but people cheat the system every single day. So much so that the people who NEED it are getting turned away. I know too many people collecting government funding and free health insurance and these people make more money then I do. Off the books, not married on purpose, etc. Then there are senior citizens who have done the work, paid their dues and get shit. I have a close family member who only recieves $1,000 a month in SS and is offered $15 a month in food stamps.
The system is a shit show. It is made for people who know how to cheat it. I am not in favor of giving even more bc as it is, it's not being put to good use.
I have an honest clarifying question here if you would indulge me.
You said before you are in the 1% correct? If not, you are comfortable, correct?
And you know people collecting "government funding" who make more than you?
Could you clarify?
I just don't want to assume or misinterpret anything before I respond to that.
I am comfortable with my salary based on hours worked and convenience of my job. Without saying my personal income (not household which would include my husbands salary) I know of 2 people, close to my life, who take home more money then I do (a lot of cash/off the books) who receive food stamps, free healthcare, free trade school, and at Different times welfare. That's just who I still keep in contact with. My old neighborhood was swarming with crooks who lived off the system bc they could.
ETA: these people know what they are doing and have said on numerous occasions "if I can get it, why not?"
Thank you for sharing.
Respectfully, those are anecdotes. While I don't doubt what you are telling me, it doesn't tell the whole story.
I could share my own anecdotes of people in a lot of need, but why? They're not the big picture any more than yours are.
I'd be interested to know some unbiased statistics on fraud estimates.
In the meantime, I believe the share of people who are gaming the system is very small in proportion to the number of people in true need.
If I'm wrong, I am open to changing my opinion on the way the system works.
But if I'm not, I think a small portion of people gaming the system is something we might need to accept to make sure the people in true need get what they are entitled to.
Obviously fraud needs to be fought - and it is fought - but we can't catch all of them.
Did I, in some way say that I had concrete evidence showing proof of fraud in the system? I did not. I had said many people I know.
Call it how you want, but it's the way I Know it to be. The difference between me and a lot of people on the numerous threads that contain similar subjects is I am not looking to CHANGE anyone's mind. I am giving my views, for what i know to be true in my own life experiences.
You might be misunderstanding me.
I did not say you had evidence.
I am saying the anecdotes don't really mean anything.
Yours or mine.
I am not going to try to change your mind, but I would encourage anyone, on any topic, to form their opinions based on facts.
Like I said, if the facts bore out differently than I believe they would, I would be open to changing my mind.
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| Posted 3/4/16 9:03 AM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Posted by Kitten1929
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
In response to small businesses and $15 min wage. I have discussed this with DH in length, and if this is to happen, we will have no choice but to cut our staff significantly. It may not hurt big business - McDonald's or other large chains as much - raising cost of Big Mac or coffee by a crazy amount, but small businesses? It'll definitely be a problem.
I know I've said it before and got bombarded with a lot of people denying this exists but people cheat the system every single day. So much so that the people who NEED it are getting turned away. I know too many people collecting government funding and free health insurance and these people make more money then I do. Off the books, not married on purpose, etc. Then there are senior citizens who have done the work, paid their dues and get shit. I have a close family member who only recieves $1,000 a month in SS and is offered $15 a month in food stamps.
The system is a shit show. It is made for people who know how to cheat it. I am not in favor of giving even more bc as it is, it's not being put to good use.
I have an honest clarifying question here if you would indulge me.
You said before you are in the 1% correct? If not, you are comfortable, correct?
And you know people collecting "government funding" who make more than you?
Could you clarify?
I just don't want to assume or misinterpret anything before I respond to that.
I am comfortable with my salary based on hours worked and convenience of my job. Without saying my personal income (not household which would include my husbands salary) I know of 2 people, close to my life, who take home more money then I do (a lot of cash/off the books) who receive food stamps, free healthcare, free trade school, and at Different times welfare. That's just who I still keep in contact with. My old neighborhood was swarming with crooks who lived off the system bc they could.
ETA: these people know what they are doing and have said on numerous occasions "if I can get it, why not?"
Thank you for sharing.
Respectfully, those are anecdotes. While I don't doubt what you are telling me, it doesn't tell the whole story.
I could share my own anecdotes of people in a lot of need, but why? They're not the big picture any more than yours are.
I'd be interested to know some unbiased statistics on fraud estimates.
In the meantime, I believe the share of people who are gaming the system is very small in proportion to the number of people in true need.
If I'm wrong, I am open to changing my opinion on the way the system works.
But if I'm not, I think a small portion of people gaming the system is something we might need to accept to make sure the people in true need get what they are entitled to.
Obviously fraud needs to be fought - and it is fought - but we can't catch all of them.
I agree and I think there is also a misplaced contempt for the average American who receives social assistance and yet none for the corporations who commit corporate fraud and tax evasions on an infinitely larger scale.
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| Posted 3/4/16 9:04 AM |
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PhyllisNJoe
My Box Is Broken
Member since 6/11 9145 total posts
Name:
Phyllis
|
Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Posted by Kitten1929
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
In response to small businesses and $15 min wage. I have discussed this with DH in length, and if this is to happen, we will have no choice but to cut our staff significantly. It may not hurt big business - McDonald's or other large chains as much - raising cost of Big Mac or coffee by a crazy amount, but small businesses? It'll definitely be a problem.
I know I've said it before and got bombarded with a lot of people denying this exists but people cheat the system every single day. So much so that the people who NEED it are getting turned away. I know too many people collecting government funding and free health insurance and these people make more money then I do. Off the books, not married on purpose, etc. Then there are senior citizens who have done the work, paid their dues and get shit. I have a close family member who only recieves $1,000 a month in SS and is offered $15 a month in food stamps.
The system is a shit show. It is made for people who know how to cheat it. I am not in favor of giving even more bc as it is, it's not being put to good use.
I have an honest clarifying question here if you would indulge me.
You said before you are in the 1% correct? If not, you are comfortable, correct?
And you know people collecting "government funding" who make more than you?
Could you clarify?
I just don't want to assume or misinterpret anything before I respond to that.
I am comfortable with my salary based on hours worked and convenience of my job. Without saying my personal income (not household which would include my husbands salary) I know of 2 people, close to my life, who take home more money then I do (a lot of cash/off the books) who receive food stamps, free healthcare, free trade school, and at Different times welfare. That's just who I still keep in contact with. My old neighborhood was swarming with crooks who lived off the system bc they could.
ETA: these people know what they are doing and have said on numerous occasions "if I can get it, why not?"
Thank you for sharing.
Respectfully, those are anecdotes. While I don't doubt what you are telling me, it doesn't tell the whole story.
I could share my own anecdotes of people in a lot of need, but why? They're not the big picture any more than yours are.
I'd be interested to know some unbiased statistics on fraud estimates.
In the meantime, I believe the share of people who are gaming the system is very small in proportion to the number of people in true need.
If I'm wrong, I am open to changing my opinion on the way the system works.
But if I'm not, I think a small portion of people gaming the system is something we might need to accept to make sure the people in true need get what they are entitled to.
Obviously fraud needs to be fought - and it is fought - but we can't catch all of them.
I agree and I think there is also a misplaced contempt for the average American who receives social assistance and yet none for the corporations who commit corporate fraud and tax evasions on an infinitely larger scale.
Personally, I don't look badly upon those who need assistance. WHO NEED assistance. Not get it bc why not
Big difference
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| Posted 3/4/16 9:05 AM |
| |
|
JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
|
Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
In response to small businesses and $15 min wage. I have discussed this with DH in length, and if this is to happen, we will have no choice but to cut our staff significantly. It may not hurt big business - McDonald's or other large chains as much - raising cost of Big Mac or coffee by a crazy amount, but small businesses? It'll definitely be a problem.
I know I've said it before and got bombarded with a lot of people denying this exists but people cheat the system every single day. So much so that the people who NEED it are getting turned away. I know too many people collecting government funding and free health insurance and these people make more money then I do. Off the books, not married on purpose, etc. Then there are senior citizens who have done the work, paid their dues and get shit. I have a close family member who only recieves $1,000 a month in SS and is offered $15 a month in food stamps.
The system is a shit show. It is made for people who know how to cheat it. I am not in favor of giving even more bc as it is, it's not being put to good use.
I have an honest clarifying question here if you would indulge me.
You said before you are in the 1% correct? If not, you are comfortable, correct?
And you know people collecting "government funding" who make more than you?
Could you clarify?
I just don't want to assume or misinterpret anything before I respond to that.
I am comfortable with my salary based on hours worked and convenience of my job. Without saying my personal income (not household which would include my husbands salary) I know of 2 people, close to my life, who take home more money then I do (a lot of cash/off the books) who receive food stamps, free healthcare, free trade school, and at Different times welfare. That's just who I still keep in contact with. My old neighborhood was swarming with crooks who lived off the system bc they could.
ETA: these people know what they are doing and have said on numerous occasions "if I can get it, why not?"
Thank you for sharing.
Respectfully, those are anecdotes. While I don't doubt what you are telling me, it doesn't tell the whole story.
I could share my own anecdotes of people in a lot of need, but why? They're not the big picture any more than yours are.
I'd be interested to know some unbiased statistics on fraud estimates.
In the meantime, I believe the share of people who are gaming the system is very small in proportion to the number of people in true need.
If I'm wrong, I am open to changing my opinion on the way the system works.
But if I'm not, I think a small portion of people gaming the system is something we might need to accept to make sure the people in true need get what they are entitled to.
Obviously fraud needs to be fought - and it is fought - but we can't catch all of them.
Did I, in some way say that I had concrete evidence showing proof of fraud in the system? I did not. I had said many people I know.
Call it how you want, but it's the way I Know it to be. The difference between me and a lot of people on the numerous threads that contain similar subjects is I am not looking to CHANGE anyone's mind. I am giving my views, for what i know to be true in my own life experiences.
ETA: If you believe its a small portion of people who are cheating the system then maybe you should go into some lower income neighborhoods and have a closer look. Growing up, a good portion of my neighbors were doing it. They continue to do so even though they have moved out. An enormous amount of immigrants do so as well. Sometimes you need to take your head out of the books (or websites) and go out and see for yourself.
I am just responding to your ETA:
I work with low income youth all day, in a low income neighborhood, but thanks for the suggestion.
Again, I work off of facts.
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| Posted 3/4/16 9:08 AM |
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PhyllisNJoe
My Box Is Broken
Member since 6/11 9145 total posts
Name:
Phyllis
|
Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
In response to small businesses and $15 min wage. I have discussed this with DH in length, and if this is to happen, we will have no choice but to cut our staff significantly. It may not hurt big business - McDonald's or other large chains as much - raising cost of Big Mac or coffee by a crazy amount, but small businesses? It'll definitely be a problem.
I know I've said it before and got bombarded with a lot of people denying this exists but people cheat the system every single day. So much so that the people who NEED it are getting turned away. I know too many people collecting government funding and free health insurance and these people make more money then I do. Off the books, not married on purpose, etc. Then there are senior citizens who have done the work, paid their dues and get shit. I have a close family member who only recieves $1,000 a month in SS and is offered $15 a month in food stamps.
The system is a shit show. It is made for people who know how to cheat it. I am not in favor of giving even more bc as it is, it's not being put to good use.
I have an honest clarifying question here if you would indulge me.
You said before you are in the 1% correct? If not, you are comfortable, correct?
And you know people collecting "government funding" who make more than you?
Could you clarify?
I just don't want to assume or misinterpret anything before I respond to that.
I am comfortable with my salary based on hours worked and convenience of my job. Without saying my personal income (not household which would include my husbands salary) I know of 2 people, close to my life, who take home more money then I do (a lot of cash/off the books) who receive food stamps, free healthcare, free trade school, and at Different times welfare. That's just who I still keep in contact with. My old neighborhood was swarming with crooks who lived off the system bc they could.
ETA: these people know what they are doing and have said on numerous occasions "if I can get it, why not?"
Thank you for sharing.
Respectfully, those are anecdotes. While I don't doubt what you are telling me, it doesn't tell the whole story.
I could share my own anecdotes of people in a lot of need, but why? They're not the big picture any more than yours are.
I'd be interested to know some unbiased statistics on fraud estimates.
In the meantime, I believe the share of people who are gaming the system is very small in proportion to the number of people in true need.
If I'm wrong, I am open to changing my opinion on the way the system works.
But if I'm not, I think a small portion of people gaming the system is something we might need to accept to make sure the people in true need get what they are entitled to.
Obviously fraud needs to be fought - and it is fought - but we can't catch all of them.
Did I, in some way say that I had concrete evidence showing proof of fraud in the system? I did not. I had said many people I know.
Call it how you want, but it's the way I Know it to be. The difference between me and a lot of people on the numerous threads that contain similar subjects is I am not looking to CHANGE anyone's mind. I am giving my views, for what i know to be true in my own life experiences.
ETA: If you believe its a small portion of people who are cheating the system then maybe you should go into some lower income neighborhoods and have a closer look. Growing up, a good portion of my neighbors were doing it. They continue to do so even though they have moved out. An enormous amount of immigrants do so as well. Sometimes you need to take your head out of the books (or websites) and go out and see for yourself.
I am just responding to your ETA:
I work with low income youth all day, in a low income neighborhood, but thanks for the suggestion.
Again, I work off of facts.
Alrighty then
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| Posted 3/4/16 9:08 AM |
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|
PhyllisNJoe
My Box Is Broken
Member since 6/11 9145 total posts
Name:
Phyllis
|
Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
In response to small businesses and $15 min wage. I have discussed this with DH in length, and if this is to happen, we will have no choice but to cut our staff significantly. It may not hurt big business - McDonald's or other large chains as much - raising cost of Big Mac or coffee by a crazy amount, but small businesses? It'll definitely be a problem.
I know I've said it before and got bombarded with a lot of people denying this exists but people cheat the system every single day. So much so that the people who NEED it are getting turned away. I know too many people collecting government funding and free health insurance and these people make more money then I do. Off the books, not married on purpose, etc. Then there are senior citizens who have done the work, paid their dues and get shit. I have a close family member who only recieves $1,000 a month in SS and is offered $15 a month in food stamps.
The system is a shit show. It is made for people who know how to cheat it. I am not in favor of giving even more bc as it is, it's not being put to good use.
I have an honest clarifying question here if you would indulge me.
You said before you are in the 1% correct? If not, you are comfortable, correct?
And you know people collecting "government funding" who make more than you?
Could you clarify?
I just don't want to assume or misinterpret anything before I respond to that.
I am comfortable with my salary based on hours worked and convenience of my job. Without saying my personal income (not household which would include my husbands salary) I know of 2 people, close to my life, who take home more money then I do (a lot of cash/off the books) who receive food stamps, free healthcare, free trade school, and at Different times welfare. That's just who I still keep in contact with. My old neighborhood was swarming with crooks who lived off the system bc they could.
ETA: these people know what they are doing and have said on numerous occasions "if I can get it, why not?"
Thank you for sharing.
Respectfully, those are anecdotes. While I don't doubt what you are telling me, it doesn't tell the whole story.
I could share my own anecdotes of people in a lot of need, but why? They're not the big picture any more than yours are.
I'd be interested to know some unbiased statistics on fraud estimates.
In the meantime, I believe the share of people who are gaming the system is very small in proportion to the number of people in true need.
If I'm wrong, I am open to changing my opinion on the way the system works.
But if I'm not, I think a small portion of people gaming the system is something we might need to accept to make sure the people in true need get what they are entitled to.
Obviously fraud needs to be fought - and it is fought - but we can't catch all of them.
Did I, in some way say that I had concrete evidence showing proof of fraud in the system? I did not. I had said many people I know.
Call it how you want, but it's the way I Know it to be. The difference between me and a lot of people on the numerous threads that contain similar subjects is I am not looking to CHANGE anyone's mind. I am giving my views, for what i know to be true in my own life experiences.
ETA: If you believe its a small portion of people who are cheating the system then maybe you should go into some lower income neighborhoods and have a closer look. Growing up, a good portion of my neighbors were doing it. They continue to do so even though they have moved out. An enormous amount of immigrants do so as well. Sometimes you need to take your head out of the books (or websites) and go out and see for yourself.
I am just responding to your ETA:
I work with low income youth all day, in a low income neighborhood, but thanks for the suggestion.
Again, I work off of facts.
Alrighty then
Actually, i have a question for you
if you dont mind
Were you ever a low income youth? Or is it through your work that you have come to your own beliefs
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| Posted 3/4/16 9:09 AM |
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|
Kitten1929
LIF Adult
Member since 1/13 6040 total posts
Name:
|
Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by Kitten1929
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
In response to small businesses and $15 min wage. I have discussed this with DH in length, and if this is to happen, we will have no choice but to cut our staff significantly. It may not hurt big business - McDonald's or other large chains as much - raising cost of Big Mac or coffee by a crazy amount, but small businesses? It'll definitely be a problem.
I know I've said it before and got bombarded with a lot of people denying this exists but people cheat the system every single day. So much so that the people who NEED it are getting turned away. I know too many people collecting government funding and free health insurance and these people make more money then I do. Off the books, not married on purpose, etc. Then there are senior citizens who have done the work, paid their dues and get shit. I have a close family member who only recieves $1,000 a month in SS and is offered $15 a month in food stamps.
The system is a shit show. It is made for people who know how to cheat it. I am not in favor of giving even more bc as it is, it's not being put to good use.
I have an honest clarifying question here if you would indulge me.
You said before you are in the 1% correct? If not, you are comfortable, correct?
And you know people collecting "government funding" who make more than you?
Could you clarify?
I just don't want to assume or misinterpret anything before I respond to that.
I am comfortable with my salary based on hours worked and convenience of my job. Without saying my personal income (not household which would include my husbands salary) I know of 2 people, close to my life, who take home more money then I do (a lot of cash/off the books) who receive food stamps, free healthcare, free trade school, and at Different times welfare. That's just who I still keep in contact with. My old neighborhood was swarming with crooks who lived off the system bc they could.
ETA: these people know what they are doing and have said on numerous occasions "if I can get it, why not?"
Thank you for sharing.
Respectfully, those are anecdotes. While I don't doubt what you are telling me, it doesn't tell the whole story.
I could share my own anecdotes of people in a lot of need, but why? They're not the big picture any more than yours are.
I'd be interested to know some unbiased statistics on fraud estimates.
In the meantime, I believe the share of people who are gaming the system is very small in proportion to the number of people in true need.
If I'm wrong, I am open to changing my opinion on the way the system works.
But if I'm not, I think a small portion of people gaming the system is something we might need to accept to make sure the people in true need get what they are entitled to.
Obviously fraud needs to be fought - and it is fought - but we can't catch all of them.
I agree and I think there is also a misplaced contempt for the average American who receives social assistance and yet none for the corporations who commit corporate fraud and tax evasions on an infinitely larger scale.
Personally, I don't look badly upon those who need assistance. WHO NEED assistance. Not get it bc why not
Big difference
But how do you quantify that? Can we go out and poll people and say, who here needs it and who here is getting it just because? I don't think you can compartmentalize it like that. We have social programs, people utilize them, and the facts and statistics have shown time and time again that welfare fraud is not some enormous conspiracy committed by the average recipient. I am not saying you're wrong for your beliefs, but I don't think it's so easy to tie up with a little bow.
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| Posted 3/4/16 9:14 AM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
|
Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Two articles on the facts and numbers of government assistance fraud:
http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1526-5-surprising-insider-facts-about-welfare.html
https://www.quora.com/How-much-welfare-fraud-is-there-really
According to the U.S. Department of Labor statistics website, based on the 2012 IPIA three-Year average data report, fraud was prevalent in 2.67% of cases
I'm OK with helping 97.3% of people who need help, even if there is some fraud. It's a much better percentage, and a much better ROI for society than paying for (fill in the blanks here.... Corporate subsidies, tax loopholes for the super rich, political fraud, etc, etc...)
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| Posted 3/4/16 9:15 AM |
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PhyllisNJoe
My Box Is Broken
Member since 6/11 9145 total posts
Name:
Phyllis
|
Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Posted by Kitten1929
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by Kitten1929
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
In response to small businesses and $15 min wage. I have discussed this with DH in length, and if this is to happen, we will have no choice but to cut our staff significantly. It may not hurt big business - McDonald's or other large chains as much - raising cost of Big Mac or coffee by a crazy amount, but small businesses? It'll definitely be a problem.
I know I've said it before and got bombarded with a lot of people denying this exists but people cheat the system every single day. So much so that the people who NEED it are getting turned away. I know too many people collecting government funding and free health insurance and these people make more money then I do. Off the books, not married on purpose, etc. Then there are senior citizens who have done the work, paid their dues and get shit. I have a close family member who only recieves $1,000 a month in SS and is offered $15 a month in food stamps.
The system is a shit show. It is made for people who know how to cheat it. I am not in favor of giving even more bc as it is, it's not being put to good use.
I have an honest clarifying question here if you would indulge me.
You said before you are in the 1% correct? If not, you are comfortable, correct?
And you know people collecting "government funding" who make more than you?
Could you clarify?
I just don't want to assume or misinterpret anything before I respond to that.
I am comfortable with my salary based on hours worked and convenience of my job. Without saying my personal income (not household which would include my husbands salary) I know of 2 people, close to my life, who take home more money then I do (a lot of cash/off the books) who receive food stamps, free healthcare, free trade school, and at Different times welfare. That's just who I still keep in contact with. My old neighborhood was swarming with crooks who lived off the system bc they could.
ETA: these people know what they are doing and have said on numerous occasions "if I can get it, why not?"
Thank you for sharing.
Respectfully, those are anecdotes. While I don't doubt what you are telling me, it doesn't tell the whole story.
I could share my own anecdotes of people in a lot of need, but why? They're not the big picture any more than yours are.
I'd be interested to know some unbiased statistics on fraud estimates.
In the meantime, I believe the share of people who are gaming the system is very small in proportion to the number of people in true need.
If I'm wrong, I am open to changing my opinion on the way the system works.
But if I'm not, I think a small portion of people gaming the system is something we might need to accept to make sure the people in true need get what they are entitled to.
Obviously fraud needs to be fought - and it is fought - but we can't catch all of them.
I agree and I think there is also a misplaced contempt for the average American who receives social assistance and yet none for the corporations who commit corporate fraud and tax evasions on an infinitely larger scale.
Personally, I don't look badly upon those who need assistance. WHO NEED assistance. Not get it bc why not
Big difference
But how do you quantify that? Can we go out and poll people and say, who here needs it and who here is getting it just because? I don't think you can compartmentalize it like that. We have social programs, people utilize them, and the facts and statistics have shown time and time again that welfare fraud is not some enormous conspiracy committed by the average recipient. I am not saying you're wrong for your beliefs, but I don't think it's so easy to tie up with a little bow.
Truth. It's harder to weed out the scammers from the people who need it. I think that's something that should be improved upon. Not just say too many are doing without, let's give more. I'm not willing to keep killin myself so the people who don't will have.
I wish I had the answer as to what government needs to do to improve their screening systems. But I don't. I won't pretend to
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| Posted 3/4/16 9:18 AM |
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PhyllisNJoe
My Box Is Broken
Member since 6/11 9145 total posts
Name:
Phyllis
|
Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
I can't believe they have exact knowledge of who is cheating the system. If they knew for sure the amount of fraud going on, there wouldn't be much fraud left. No? How do you get accurate #s from cheaters and liars?
Not sue how I feel about this
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| Posted 3/4/16 9:20 AM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
|
Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
edited for space
Actually, i have a question for you
if you dont mind
Were you ever a low income youth? Or is it through your work that you have come to your own beliefs
I don't mind at all.
I grew up in a middle class neighborhood on Suffolk's south shore. My father worked in sales and then, later, owned a small business and my mom was a SAHM. We weren't rich, but our family income was probably on the higher side of the range of middle class families.
Until it wasn't.
My father died suddenly when I was 15 and my mother had no marketable skills, so things were tough.
My mom worked a very low paying job to make ends meet. She moved up eventually, but by then I was living on my own.
My undergrad education was largely paid for by my father's life insurance.
My mom is more or less ok today, but she doesn't have much in savings, and I happily help her out when I can because I feel that I should have taken out loans and had her keep more of the insurance money. She made that decision, though. It was important to her that I had a great education.
So, as far as how that affects my views?
Again, I am only one person. So it means nothing in the grand scheme of things. But having seen life change in an instant has affected my views in many ways. More than I have time to write, I'm afraid.
I also learned that things are not always what they seem. Because our good quality clothes, home, and car didn't disappear when my father's income did.
I have learned not to judge.
And my experience really shaped my views about the costs of college. Because as crazy as my husband drives me, I am sort of hoping that his life insurance is NOT there to fund my kid's college.
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| Posted 3/4/16 9:34 AM |
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PhyllisNJoe
My Box Is Broken
Member since 6/11 9145 total posts
Name:
Phyllis
|
Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
edited for space
Actually, i have a question for you
if you dont mind
Were you ever a low income youth? Or is it through your work that you have come to your own beliefs
I don't mind at all.
I grew up in a middle class neighborhood on Suffolk's south shore. My father worked in sales and then, later, owned a small business and my mom was a SAHM. We weren't rich, but our family income was probably on the higher side of the range of middle class families.
Until it wasn't.
My father died suddenly when I was 15 and my mother had no marketable skills, so things were tough.
My mom worked a very low paying job to make ends meet. She moved up eventually, but by then I was living on my own.
My undergrad education was largely paid for by my father's life insurance.
My mom is more or less ok today, but she doesn't have much in savings, and I happily help her out when I can because I feel that I should have taken out loans and had her keep more of the insurance money. She made that decision, though. It was important to her that I had a great education.
So, as far as how that affects my views?
Again, I am only one person. So it means nothing in the grand scheme of things. But having seen life change in an instant has affected my views in many ways. More than I have time to write, I'm afraid.
I also learned that things are not always what they seem. Because our good quality clothes, home, and car didn't disappear when my father's income did.
I have learned not to judge.
And my experience really shaped my views about the costs of college. Because as crazy as my husband drives me, I am sort of hoping that his life insurance is NOT there to fund my kid's college.
As someone who also lost their father young, I'm gonna leave this alone at this point.
We have to agree to disagree on this matter.
Have a great weekend
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| Posted 3/4/16 9:39 AM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
|
Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by JennP
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
edited for space
Actually, i have a question for you
if you dont mind
Were you ever a low income youth? Or is it through your work that you have come to your own beliefs
I don't mind at all.
I grew up in a middle class neighborhood on Suffolk's south shore. My father worked in sales and then, later, owned a small business and my mom was a SAHM. We weren't rich, but our family income was probably on the higher side of the range of middle class families.
Until it wasn't.
My father died suddenly when I was 15 and my mother had no marketable skills, so things were tough.
My mom worked a very low paying job to make ends meet. She moved up eventually, but by then I was living on my own.
My undergrad education was largely paid for by my father's life insurance.
My mom is more or less ok today, but she doesn't have much in savings, and I happily help her out when I can because I feel that I should have taken out loans and had her keep more of the insurance money. She made that decision, though. It was important to her that I had a great education.
So, as far as how that affects my views?
Again, I am only one person. So it means nothing in the grand scheme of things. But having seen life change in an instant has affected my views in many ways. More than I have time to write, I'm afraid.
I also learned that things are not always what they seem. Because our good quality clothes, home, and car didn't disappear when my father's income did.
I have learned not to judge.
And my experience really shaped my views about the costs of college. Because as crazy as my husband drives me, I am sort of hoping that his life insurance is NOT there to fund my kid's college.
As someone who also lost their father young, I'm gonna leave this alone at this point.
We have to agree to disagree on this matter.
Have a great weekend
You do the same.
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| Posted 3/4/16 9:40 AM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
|
Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Thanks for sharing!
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| Posted 3/4/16 9:41 AM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
|
Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
This reminds me of voter fraud. Some states require ID to vote because they claim there are high instances of voter fraud. The actual number of fraudulent votes is so insignificant (like a fraction of a percent). It's easy to say that many people cheat the system (welfare, voting, whatever) but when you look at the actual statistics, that really isn't the case.
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| Posted 3/4/16 10:11 AM |
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|
|
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Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Posted by ElizaRags35
Pro choice
In support of women's rights
Wants stricter gun laws
Supports healthcare reform (not necessarily ACA as is but something other than what we had previously)
Supports gay marriage
Believes in climate change
A president needs to be diplomatic, not fly off the handle, a firm leader but doesn't alienate or degrades his or her citizens.
Pretty much this.
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| Posted 3/4/16 10:59 AM |
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Xelindrya
Mommy's little YouTube Star!
Member since 8/05 14470 total posts
Name:
Veronica
|
Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
I can't believe they have exact knowledge of who is cheating the system. If they knew for sure the amount of fraud going on, there wouldn't be much fraud left. No? How do you get accurate #s from cheaters and liars?
Not sue how I feel about this
Yeah I'm not sure about this either.. I worked for the food stamp office (Volunteering) and spent time in the Recovery unit.. the insanity.. the ugliness.. the greed... the vile abuse..
It would make anyone vomit.
The backlog the sheer numbers were astounding! I worked with both sides. The approvals and the recoveries.
And I'd say easily with personal knowledge that those who NEEDED it were rejected over those who were blatantly USING the system more times than I could count. Then those cheating the system were just barely slapped on the wrists. *IF* ever caught.
I wonder about those numbers. Plus pride. Those who will report they don't need or never had have to need assistance vs those who will admit to having taken it or abusing it or those that they've been able to prove have abused it. Those numbers are hard to quantify/qualify, I'd think.
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| Posted 3/4/16 12:33 PM |
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gina409
TWINS!
Member since 12/09 27635 total posts
Name:
g
|
Re: A different spin on presidential candidates...
I'm very curious how many people know someone who is "cheating" the system
I do t know the solution/what's right/how to fix it etc
But everyone seems to say the numbers of people
Who take advantage are low etc but off the top of my head I personally know 3 people
Who do
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| Posted 3/4/16 9:30 PM |
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Long Island Bridal Shows
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