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neener1211
:-)
Member since 4/07 22952 total posts
Name:
J
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by LoriH
Posted by neener1211
I don't see the problem here.
If a police officer asks you for your ID, and you are legally here, show your ID and move on. If the cop is not detaining you for another altercation, consider the officer looking out for the community's well being. Go on your way.
If a police officer asks you for your ID, and you are illegally here with no papers stating you can be in the US, you have no right to feel discriminated against because you came here illegally in the first place and should be sent to your home country.
Do you always carry your ID? I know I run out of the house without my license on me all the time. I am not a nationality that would likely be stopped but if I were, I could be detained when unable to present ID.
I do. Even if I know I won't need it, DH will harrass me until I go and grab it. He was in the military and is constantly telling me that I should have my ID on me at all times, you never know if you'll need it.
eta: I, like you am a nationality that would most likely not be stopped. And if you were detained until the proper identification has been made, is that the worst thing in the world? Making sure that you are who you are? Sure, it would be inconvenient, but certainly not the worst thing in the world.
Message edited 5/5/2010 1:35:52 PM.
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Posted 5/5/10 1:30 PM  |
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My4GirlsMyLife
My 4 girlies
Member since 2/08 9702 total posts
Name:
Valerie
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by neener1211
Posted by LoriH
Posted by neener1211
I don't see the problem here.
If a police officer asks you for your ID, and you are legally here, show your ID and move on. If the cop is not detaining you for another altercation, consider the officer looking out for the community's well being. Go on your way.
If a police officer asks you for your ID, and you are illegally here with no papers stating you can be in the US, you have no right to feel discriminated against because you came here illegally in the first place and should be sent to your home country.
Do you always carry your ID? I know I run out of the house without my license on me all the time. I am not a nationality that would likely be stopped but if I were, I could be detained when unable to present ID.
I do. Even if I know I won't need it, DH will harrass me until I go and grab it. He was in the military and is constantly telling me that I should have my ID on me at all times, you never know if you'll need it.
Same here ! Even when I drive my kids to school I will just grab my wallet
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| Posted 5/5/10 1:32 PM |
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McSullivan
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Member since 5/05 1573 total posts
Name:
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by Erica
But that is the problem. Lawful Contact could be interpreted as a police officer walking up to a person. And I'm sure Joe Arpaio will interpret it that way. The man is crazy. He has said that he will strictly enforce it - how many more deaths does he want on his hands?
Just for clarification, why would Joe Arpaio be responsible for deaths if he enforces this law?
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| Posted 5/5/10 1:37 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
has anyone EVER read the history of immigration law.
like, EVER.
it is BASED on racism. it is based on fear of other races.
most of the grandparents and great grandparents and great great grandparents that walked through our doors faced harships GETTING here, but were welcomed LEGALLY once they arrived.
and there are MANY MANY LEGAL people in the southwest working for the drug cartels.
the law is WRONG. and it's unconstitutional. I am all for protecting our borders. I am all for protecting our law enforcement and border patrol officers.
but there are other ways to do it. and it's not by stopping mr. flores in flagstaff b/c he has a year long tan.
if you family came before 1921, the practically walked right in
it got a little harder after 1924
and if you are asian, you have also gotten the shaft.
Message edited 5/5/2010 1:54:16 PM.
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| Posted 5/5/10 1:45 PM |
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BunnyWife
Insert Witty Comment Here
Member since 5/07 8274 total posts
Name:
BunnyWife
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by Ophelia
has anyone EVER read the history of immigration law.
like, EVER.
it is BASED on racism. it is based on fear of other races.
most of the grandparents and great grandparents and great great grandparents that walked through our doors faced harships GETTING here, but were welcomed LEGALLY once they arrived.
and there are MANY MANY LEGAL people in the southwest working for the drug cartels.
the law is WRONG. and it's unconstitutional. I am all for protecting our borders. I am all for protecting our law enforcement and border patrol officers.
but there are other ways to do it. and it's not by stopping mr. flores in flagstaff b/c he has a year long tan.
if you family came before 1921, the practically walked right in
it got a little harder after 1924
and if you are asian, you have also gotten the shaft.
THANK YOU! I'm shocked by how many people actually agree with this law.
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| Posted 5/5/10 1:57 PM |
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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
Member since 5/05 9731 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by Ophelia
has anyone EVER read the history of immigration law.
like, EVER.
it is BASED on racism. it is based on fear of other races.
most of the grandparents and great grandparents and great great grandparents that walked through our doors faced harships GETTING here, but were welcomed LEGALLY once they arrived.
and there are MANY MANY LEGAL people in the southwest working for the drug cartels.
the law is WRONG. and it's unconstitutional. I am all for protecting our borders. I am all for protecting our law enforcement and border patrol officers.
but there are other ways to do it. and it's not by stopping mr. flores in flagstaff b/c he has a year long tan.
if you family came before 1921, the practically walked right in
it got a little harder after 1924
and if you are asian, you have also gotten the shaft.
I think this law is wrong on so many bases- but I think that the story of immigration currently is racist issue... if it were a bunch of white canadians, we wouldn't have a problem..
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| Posted 5/5/10 2:00 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by BunnyWife
THANK YOU! I'm shocked by how many people actually agree with this law.
people are always saying "my great grand pappy did it the legal way"
um, of course he did. b/c he just had to get here, not be sick, mentally retarded, or convicted of a crime and he was ALLOWED in. hell, they even gave away FREE land so some if you go back a little further.
but maybe if grandpappy was trying to get in now, you may be singing a different tune (in your "native" tongue)
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| Posted 5/5/10 2:00 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by Sassyz75
I think this law is wrong on so many bases- but I think that the story of immigration currently is racist issue... if it were a bunch of white canadians, we wouldn't have a problem..
Dina, if you looke at the revisions to immigration law, you would probably be floored with how many of them were OPENLY racist against asians. even making it legal to revoke the citizenship of female citizens marrying or married to asian men.
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| Posted 5/5/10 2:02 PM |
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neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by Sassyz75
I think this law is wrong on so many bases- but I think that the story of immigration currently is racist issue... if it were a bunch of white canadians, we wouldn't have a problem..
Is there a major Canadian Drug trafficking problem currently facing our country?
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| Posted 5/5/10 2:42 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by neenie
Posted by Sassyz75
I think this law is wrong on so many bases- but I think that the story of immigration currently is racist issue... if it were a bunch of white canadians, we wouldn't have a problem..
Is there a major Canadian Drug trafficking problem currently facing our country?
but this is NOT the point. the law is an immigration law yet clearly it is TARGETING a specific group. it's flat out unconstitutional. and that is the point.
if you want to fight the cartels and the drugs, then make a law about that.
there is no way to align this law with the constitution. none. and unless we want to throw that lil slip of paper in the garbage, we need to send this law into the Rio Grande.
Message edited 5/5/2010 2:50:58 PM.
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| Posted 5/5/10 2:50 PM |
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MissingLI
Such a Big Boy!
Member since 1/06 1602 total posts
Name:
C
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by brownie
Posted by johnsae
Posted by yourenotme
Posted by Renee615
Posted by headoverheels
What I feel this boils down to is that IMMIGRATING INTO THIS COUNTRY WITHOUT PERMISSION IS ILLEGAL. Why is it so easy for us to overlook and forget this part? It is NOT LEGAL. And if that means the state of Arizona feels the need to protect themselves and CBP officers in this way then I have zero problem with it.
This pretty much sums it up for me.
absolutely on target! everyone seems to forget the ILLEGAL part of illegal immigrants. the federal govenment has done close to nothing addressing this problem and when individual states or municipalities take any action, people get all up in arms. they view it as discrimination and take to the streets. how about taking to the streets and protesting the unfair burden this puts on all of us. but as soon as you do that, youre declared a racist. i hope this holds up in the court system and this country finally grows a backbone like the governor of Arizona.
Amen
I'm not arguing about illegal immigrants...I agree they should be arrested/detained/go about becoming legal in a LEGAL way
I'm fine with all of that
I disagree with this law though...like I said, its a immigration is a federal law, so if someone illegal is caught, they should be handed over the FED gov't...not put in jail by local AZ cops. I'd rather have the FED gov't handle this problem (and actually do something to fix this broken system instead of putting band-aids on it), but not give power to local AZ cops. And to those who say they don't mind getting ID'd or asked for "papers" showing proof they're American probably hasn't been treated differently before purely based on the color of their skin. It's embarrassing, you feel harassed, violated and like an outsider...the exact OPPOSITE reason of why most people emigrate to this country in the first place...its a mix, we have rights, etc. For those that are ILLEGAL and are caught doing something illegal, by all means, arrest them and hand them over to the FED gov't to deal with.
Just wanted to clarify again, with this law yes local law enforcement can arrest, but the Fed is the agency is called to continue with the processing. So the Fed is involved.
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| Posted 5/5/10 2:54 PM |
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Cheeks24
Living a dream
Member since 1/08 8589 total posts
Name:
Cheeks
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by neenie
Posted by Sassyz75
I think this law is wrong on so many bases- but I think that the story of immigration currently is racist issue... if it were a bunch of white canadians, we wouldn't have a problem..
Is there a major Canadian Drug trafficking problem currently facing our country?
but this is NOT the point. the law is an immigration law yet clearly it is TARGETING a specific group. it's flat out unconstitutional. and that is the point.
if you want to fight the cartels and the drugs, then make a law about that.
there is no way to align this law with the constitution. none. and unless we want to throw that lil slip of paper in the garbage, we need to send this law into the Rio Grande.
There are laws against drugs coming across the borders already.
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| Posted 5/5/10 2:59 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by Mici C
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by neenie
Posted by Sassyz75
I think this law is wrong on so many bases- but I think that the story of immigration currently is racist issue... if it were a bunch of white canadians, we wouldn't have a problem..
Is there a major Canadian Drug trafficking problem currently facing our country?
but this is NOT the point. the law is an immigration law yet clearly it is TARGETING a specific group. it's flat out unconstitutional. and that is the point.
if you want to fight the cartels and the drugs, then make a law about that.
there is no way to align this law with the constitution. none. and unless we want to throw that lil slip of paper in the garbage, we need to send this law into the Rio Grande.
There are laws against drugs coming across the borders already.
as there are against people. 
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| Posted 5/5/10 3:01 PM |
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TheLorax
LOVE
Member since 2/06 5581 total posts
Name:
Suzanne / SuzBride
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by Ophelia
has anyone EVER read the history of immigration law.
like, EVER.
it is BASED on racism. it is based on fear of other races.
most of the grandparents and great grandparents and great great grandparents that walked through our doors faced harships GETTING here, but were welcomed LEGALLY once they arrived.
and there are MANY MANY LEGAL people in the southwest working for the drug cartels.
the law is WRONG. and it's unconstitutional. I am all for protecting our borders. I am all for protecting our law enforcement and border patrol officers.
but there are other ways to do it. and it's not by stopping mr. flores in flagstaff b/c he has a year long tan.
if you family came before 1921, the practically walked right in
it got a little harder after 1924
and if you are asian, you have also gotten the shaft.
ITA! I find the whole thing just saddening 
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| Posted 5/5/10 3:05 PM |
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MrsA714
Baby #2 is here!
Member since 8/07 8806 total posts
Name:
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
I really need to read more on the exact details of this law to have an educated opinion. I've heard a lot of conflicting statements and I know better than to believe everything I hear on tv  .
My uncle who lives in TX is all for it. He tells us things are really bad there (and this is coming from someone who came here in the 70s from South America and more than looks the part of the offending parties in question ) so it makes me think.
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| Posted 5/5/10 3:06 PM |
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neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by neenie
Posted by Sassyz75
I think this law is wrong on so many bases- but I think that the story of immigration currently is racist issue... if it were a bunch of white canadians, we wouldn't have a problem..
Is there a major Canadian Drug trafficking problem currently facing our country?
but this is NOT the point. the law is an immigration law yet clearly it is TARGETING a specific group. it's flat out unconstitutional. and that is the point.
if you want to fight the cartels and the drugs, then make a law about that.
there is no way to align this law with the constitution. none. and unless we want to throw that lil slip of paper in the garbage, we need to send this law into the Rio Grande.
It kind of IS the point though. I'm not saying that racism isn't alive and kicking, but honestly, how else are you going to get ILlegal immigrants out of this country unless you ID those that could fall into that category? It's a catch 22- you don't want ILlegal mexicans bringing drugs and crime into this country, yet you're racist if you ask anyone who looks mexican for proof of citizenship. I'd rather err on the side of caution- especially if i lived in that area and had to worry about my children's life b/c of it. If you're LEGAL, you have nothing to hide.
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| Posted 5/5/10 3:06 PM |
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Cheeks24
Living a dream
Member since 1/08 8589 total posts
Name:
Cheeks
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by BunnyWife
THANK YOU! I'm shocked by how many people actually agree with this law.
people are always saying "my great grand pappy did it the legal way"
um, of course he did. b/c he just had to get here, not be sick, mentally retarded, or convicted of a crime and he was ALLOWED in. hell, they even gave away FREE land so some if you go back a little further.
but maybe if grandpappy was trying to get in now, you may be singing a different tune (in your "native" tongue)
You also have to remember how young a country we are so people emigrated to the US. Immigration was not so much of a problem back then. We also didn't have people wanting to blow up our country in 1924. These immigration rules are put into law to protect us. I'm not saying that whoever made up the first immigration laws weren't racist, but just think what our population was back then.
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| Posted 5/5/10 3:08 PM |
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Cheeks24
Living a dream
Member since 1/08 8589 total posts
Name:
Cheeks
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by MrsA714
I really need to read more on the exact details of this law to have an educated opinion. I've heard a lot of conflicting statements and I know better than to believe everything I hear on tv .
My uncle who lives in TX is all for it. He tells us things are really bad there (and this is coming from someone who came here in the 70s from South America and more than looks the part of the offending parties in question ) so it makes me think.
People really don't know how bad it is down there. As I mentioned before I don't know about the law to comment about it, but I do know it is very bad, bad enough that they had to do something like this, KWIM?
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| Posted 5/5/10 3:09 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by neenie
It kind of IS the point though. I'm not saying that racism isn't alive and kicking, but honestly, how else are you going to get ILlegal immigrants out of this country unless you ID those that could fall into that category? It's a catch 22- you don't want ILlegal mexicans bringing drugs and crime into this country, yet you're racist if you ask anyone who looks mexican for proof of citizenship. I'd rather err on the side of caution- especially if i lived in that area and had to worry about my children's life b/c of it. If you're LEGAL, you have nothing to hide.
I understand the issue. I understand there is fear.
but we cannot say oh, it's ok b/c it's an immigration law in drug war's clothing.
so do we then stop all possible muslims on the street in case one of them happens to be an illegal terrorist?
as someone has already pointed out, the worst areas of this drug war are not even AZ border towns/cities. and while I am not advocating waiting that they become one, I am saying that we have to come up with a way that we can fight this drug war AND respect the constitution of the United States.
the drug issue is really a separate (and horrific) issue. but again, it's supply and demand. every time someone buys drugs they are funding and fueling this war.
just like every time someone hires and illegal, they are giving more a reason to come here.
we need to look at ourselves here.
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| Posted 5/5/10 3:19 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by Mici C
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by BunnyWife
THANK YOU! I'm shocked by how many people actually agree with this law.
people are always saying "my great grand pappy did it the legal way"
um, of course he did. b/c he just had to get here, not be sick, mentally retarded, or convicted of a crime and he was ALLOWED in. hell, they even gave away FREE land so some if you go back a little further.
but maybe if grandpappy was trying to get in now, you may be singing a different tune (in your "native" tongue)
You also have to remember how young a country we are so people emigrated to the US. Immigration was not so much of a problem back then. We also didn't have people wanting to blow up our country in 1924. These immigration rules are put into law to protect us. I'm not saying that whoever made up the first immigration laws weren't racist, but just think what our population was back then.
MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of people immigrated here between the 1850's and the 1920's. MILLIONS. so yeah, I'd say if ever it was a "problem" it was back then.
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| Posted 5/5/10 3:20 PM |
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Cheeks24
Living a dream
Member since 1/08 8589 total posts
Name:
Cheeks
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Mici C
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by BunnyWife
THANK YOU! I'm shocked by how many people actually agree with this law.
people are always saying "my great grand pappy did it the legal way"
um, of course he did. b/c he just had to get here, not be sick, mentally retarded, or convicted of a crime and he was ALLOWED in. hell, they even gave away FREE land so some if you go back a little further.
but maybe if grandpappy was trying to get in now, you may be singing a different tune (in your "native" tongue)
You also have to remember how young a country we are so people emigrated to the US. Immigration was not so much of a problem back then. We also didn't have people wanting to blow up our country in 1924. These immigration rules are put into law to protect us. I'm not saying that whoever made up the first immigration laws weren't racist, but just think what our population was back then.
MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of people immigrated here between the 1850's and the 1920's. MILLIONS. so yeah, I'd say if ever it was a "problem" it was back then.
Actually it wasn't a "problem". Just 300-400 years prior everyone thought the Earth was flat and boats would fall off. But maybe I should have clarified. There wasn't the technology and warfare around then that exists today. That is what makes it scarier for the CBP and law enforcement.
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| Posted 5/5/10 3:32 PM |
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brownie
Baby #1 is here!
Member since 11/08 13903 total posts
Name:
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by Ophelia
has anyone EVER read the history of immigration law.
like, EVER.
it is BASED on racism. it is based on fear of other races.
most of the grandparents and great grandparents and great great grandparents that walked through our doors faced harships GETTING here, but were welcomed LEGALLY once they arrived.
and there are MANY MANY LEGAL people in the southwest working for the drug cartels.
the law is WRONG. and it's unconstitutional. I am all for protecting our borders. I am all for protecting our law enforcement and border patrol officers.
but there are other ways to do it. and it's not by stopping mr. flores in flagstaff b/c he has a year long tan.
if you family came before 1921, the practically walked right in
it got a little harder after 1924
and if you are asian, you have also gotten the shaft.
THANK YOU! I'm shocked by how many people actually agree with this law.
Me too
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| Posted 5/5/10 4:20 PM |
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DiamondGirl
You are my I love you
Member since 7/09 18802 total posts
Name:
DiamondMama
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by neenie
Posted by Sassyz75
I think this law is wrong on so many bases- but I think that the story of immigration currently is racist issue... if it were a bunch of white canadians, we wouldn't have a problem..
Is there a major Canadian Drug trafficking problem currently facing our country?
In college I knew of people who drove to Canada and purchased all sorts of pharmacutical med's and sold them in the US. It is actually a problem. Not illegal drugs, but drugs that you cannopt get here wi/o a presciption.
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| Posted 5/5/10 6:18 PM |
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Erica
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 11767 total posts
Name:
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
Posted by Mici C
We also didn't have people wanting to blow up our country in 1924. These immigration rules are put into law to protect us. I'm not saying that whoever made up the first immigration laws weren't racist, but just think what our population was back then.
Daniel Shay, Whiskey Rebellion, Timothy McVeigh, David Karesh... - none were illegial aliens
Posted by neenie
but honestly, how else are you going to get ILlegal immigrants out of this country unless you ID those that could fall into that category? It's a catch 22- you don't want ILlegal mexicans bringing drugs and crime into this country, yet you're racist if you ask anyone who looks mexican for proof of citizenship. I'd rather err on the side of caution- especially if i lived in that area and had to worry about my children's life b/c of it. If you're LEGAL, you have nothing to hide.
Do you think the problem is so large that we should take away the rights of our citizens? This law is completely against our 4th amendment rights.
DH and I used to joke that I would be the perfect coyote. I used to go over the border at least once a month and would barely get a wave through the border.
Posted by McSullivan
Posted by Erica
But that is the problem. Lawful Contact could be interpreted as a police officer walking up to a person. And I'm sure Joe Arpaio will interpret it that way. The man is crazy. He has said that he will strictly enforce it - how many more deaths does he want on his hands?
Just for clarification, why would Joe Arpaio be responsible for deaths if he enforces this law?
Arpaio isn't shy about his tactics or detainment methods. There are a number of wrongful death suits against him and AZ. This law gives him permission to detain even more.
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| Posted 5/5/10 6:52 PM |
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Re: Arizona Law SB1070
I agree with this law.
If my Jewish grandmother and grandfather came here legally after being in the camps during the Holocaust, then I fully expect others to do the same.
And this does not permit a law enforcement officer to just approach an innocent person on the street and ask for ID. This is similar to a car search without a warrant from my understanding-if you have a lawful reason to stop a person, you have a right to ask them for their documentation, just as you have the right to search their vehicle if they have probable cause to believe there is something illegal and dangerous in there. So from my understanding, this would not mean an illegal has to worry about walking the street, but they cannot drive a car or commit a crime.
And for the racist argument-it was not only non-whites who were targeted in the past. In the 1930's, white Jews were turned away from America and the borders were locked, sending them back to their ultimate demise in the Holocaust. Not that I am saying anything is right or wrong. I have no problem with someone who comes here legally. But I do not feel that my tax dollars should support someone who chose not to come here legally.
I live in South Florida, on the borderline of Palm Beach and Broward County. Miami is an hour away. My neighbor is a sheriff in Broward. We have a large influx of Haitian and Cuban undocumented immigrants. They are largely concentrated in Broward and Miami. Both have extremely high crime rates. Unfortunately, they bring crime, drugs, gangs here. If you are arrested for a crime and not here legally, I have no qualms about deporting you. If you are not here legally, you should not be driving. I don't want to pay for your health care or housing or education. Call me selfish, this is my opinion. I would love not to have to worry that when I take my baby daughter out that I could easily be involved in a hit and run, as it is pretty common down here because people don't have licenses. I would love for my car insurance to go down, as out agent told us that we have to pay for the illegals who drive without license and commit these said hit and runs. I know people around me who would take the landscaping jobs and other low paying jobs in this terrible economy as a second job to make ends meet. If our government wants to support illegals, then I would have no issue with eliminating all income tax and property tax in favor of an across the board VAT tax (value added tax)-this way everyone is hit depending on the goods and services they consume, legal or not.
This is why I am for this law and I would love to see more like this enforced. I always walk around with my identification. I expect others to do the same. This is my opinion-I don't expect others to agree with me and you are entitled to your own.
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| Posted 5/6/10 8:19 AM |
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