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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
I can see this thread going nowhere fast...
I AM in the 250k+ bracket, and I am NOT complaining about tax reform, at all. First, I think many, MANY people lose sight that, if you are making over $250k, it's not as if you are being taxed at a higher bracked for your ENTIRE income. We have a tiered tax system in this country, so you are only taxed at the highest rate for the amout of $ OVER $250k. That makes a big difference...
Second, babyavocado makes a good point. There is no denying that the more $$ you make, the easier it is to shelter your money. I won't lie - this is what we do every tax season. In fact, last year, we saved about $10k in taxes by putting that money directly into my DH's SEP IRA account. I can guarantee, with all the shelters and deductions that we used, we ended up paying less in taxes than most middle class families.
I do recall reading an article recently about the top earners making over $250k and how, *generally* they end up paying less taxes, percent wise, than the average middle class family, through a variety of tax shelters and deductions. It's simply math - the more $$ you have, the easier it is to stuff it away in tax shelters like retirement accounts, real estate investments, etc.
If revising the current tax system means making those high income earners pay a fairer share, so that they don't end up paying LESS taxes, percentage wise, than most Amerians, it makes sense to me.
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Posted 10/27/08 10:28 AM  |
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Chatham-Chick
*********************
Member since 5/05 10311 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by Ophelia
some people have to SACRIFICE pay to do the work they LOVE.
So you don't think it's a sacrifice to do a job you don't enjoy so you can make a more of a salary?
Do you have any idea how FORTUNATE YOU ARE that you have a secure job with the GOVERNMENT? My father took a job with the government for that very reason!
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:28 AM |
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BabyAvocado
Happy New Year
Member since 5/05 17334 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Ah Beth - I knew I could count on you to be a voice of reason and knowledge! 
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:32 AM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14021 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
[Q
Message edited 2/24/2022 9:31:17 PM.
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:32 AM |
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neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by Ophelia
MONEY is NOT the only incentive to working hard in life.
It's not the only incentive for working hard, but it *IS* my only incentive for going to work. I have hobbies, interests, etc that i involve myself with outside of work and that's where my happiness comes from. I've worked very hard in life, i work extremely hard at work (more than i ever could have imagined) and will always work hard in life just because that is my personality. BUT, when it comes to going to work, for me, the bottom line is the paycheck. My priority is DH and my family, and spending time with them- if i have to work (and, essentially be taken away from them for X amount of hours each week), it needs to be worth it to me.
I dont think that makes out society sad- it makes it Capitalistic.
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:33 AM |
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Mommy2Boys
My Boys!!!!
Member since 6/06 14437 total posts
Name:
C
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by Bxgell2
I can see this thread going nowhere fast...
I AM in the 250k+ bracket, and I am NOT complaining about tax reform, at all. First, I think many, MANY people lose sight that, if you are making over $250k, it's not as if you are being taxed at a higher bracked for your ENTIRE income. We have a tiered tax system in this country, so you are only taxed at the highest rate for the amout of $ OVER $250k. That makes a big difference...
Second, babyavocado makes a good point. There is no denying that the more $$ you make, the easier it is to shelter your money. I won't lie - this is what we do every tax season. In fact, last year, we saved about $10k in taxes by putting that money directly into my DH's SEP IRA account. I can guarantee, with all the shelters and deductions that we used, we ended up paying less in taxes than most middle class families.
I do recall reading an article recently about the top earners making over $250k and how, *generally* they end up paying less taxes, percent wise, than the average middle class family, through a variety of tax shelters and deductions. It's simply math - the more $$ you have, the easier it is to stuff it away in tax shelters like retirement accounts, real estate investments, etc.
If revising the current tax system means making those high income earners pay a fairer share, so that they don't end up paying LESS taxes, percentage wise, than most Amerians, it makes sense to me.
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:33 AM |
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Mommy2Boys
My Boys!!!!
Member since 6/06 14437 total posts
Name:
C
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by BabyAvocado
Ah Beth - I knew I could count on you to be a voice of reason and knowledge!
ITA!!! 
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:34 AM |
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Kidsaplenty
Sister love
Member since 2/06 5971 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Oh God, this is so ridiculous I can't even begin to articulate how I feel about this article.
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:34 AM |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
Name:
BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by KittyTheStray
This is a common misconception. You don't understand how tax brackets work. The tax brackets are a tiered system, which means that only the amount of money above each cutoff is taxed at the higher rate, so you still have more 'take home money' at $300K than the person making $200K does.
BUMPING b/c people are MISSING this point.
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:35 AM |
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twiceasnice
LIF Adult
Member since 2/08 1126 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by shamrock124
Most of us on this board have the ability to make over 250K a year if we wanted to put in the time, effort, energy and make the sacrifices to do so.
I agree with this post 100%!
This what America is SUPPOSED to be about.
If the object of your game is to make $$ then HECK YEAH ANYBODY can do it!
People who make money are not handed it - hence the term "hard work". I like to believe everyone who works "Works Hard" (with the exception of posting on lifamilies).
For families who have a 9-5 job (and even take a 2nd job) may not make that amount but it is still possible. Start a business, create something new, collaborate and take a risk. (I would say invest but you should wait a bit.)
All those things are possible but it takes planning, revising and reform of your current situation. (Which is what the government needs to do.)
I will not let my anyone or anything rule my life. My job currently owns me and that is 100% my fault. I allowed them too, but DH and I are working on our plans to break away from that. He started a business last year and I have my own plans (but they are more of a dream at the moment).
The moment someone feels stuck or feels like this is as far as you can get, then you lost the American Dream!
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:36 AM |
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MrsERod
Praying for Everyone.
Member since 5/05 26170 total posts
Name:
MrsERod™®
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by BabyAvocado
Ugh. Where do I start.
I agree that (depending on where you live) $250k/yr is not necessarily rich.
However, when I read things like this:
distressed by their shrinking portfolios.
I don't have a "portfolio".
Lindsay Mayer and her husband, Zach, a Dallas attorney, feel stretched on $500,000 a year.
STRETCHED? At 500k? You have serious money management issues.
She's saving $800 a month for the children's college fund and $4,000 a month for retirement
That's not even my mortgage payment, bills, savings, etc combined in one month and she can just tuck it away like she doesn't need it.
During that period companies wrested far more productivity from their midlevel employees and were extremely cautious about adding new factory workers, secretaries, or salesmen, a major reason that profits exploded. But it was a great time for executives
But that was ok?
I CANNOT feel sympathy for these people or sudden understanding of their "plight". Instead, they sound profoundly GREEDY to me.
The fact is, it would be nice if we didn't have to raise taxes on anyone. But that's not reality. My understanding is that these so-called "henrys" have been getting tax BREAKS all these years and it's now time that they pay their fair share. I could be wrong about that, and if so, that's fine. If they've been paying their fair share all along, great.
But I can tell you this: right now we are far from making that much money and I consider us living well (no where near rich, not poor, just doing fine - maybe more than fine when compared to some) and making $250k/yr eventually is not unrealistic for us. If it did happen I would EXPECT to be paying more taxes at that level of income.
I don't think it's fair to levy a crushing burden on this income level, and I don't think that's what will happen. But pay a little more? I don't see anything wrong with that.
It's not punishment for success. It comes with the territory.
have i told you lately that I love you??? 
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:38 AM |
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dandr10199
Grace is growing up too fast!
Member since 10/05 11561 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by KittyTheStray
Posted by dandr10199
ITA. Although DH and I are not at $250K yet, one day we hope to be. WHAT incentive do we have to get there...NONE if we are taxed at 35%-40% of our income.
This is a common misconception. You don't understand how tax brackets work. The tax brackets are a tiered system, which means that only the amount of money above each cutoff is taxed at the higher rate, so you still have more 'take home money' at $300K than the person making $200K does.
I do understand that. I feel that the current system is unfair and that a flat tax would be the BEST option. Armey-Shelby Flat Tax Bill This bill was proposed and I feel something like this is fair. I believe the WHOLE tax code system needs to be overhauled.
ETA: Even though you would have more take home pay, you are still being taxed unfairly, IMHO. It takes away incentives to want to earn more.
Message edited 10/27/2008 10:49:46 AM.
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:40 AM |
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leighla
Support Cancer Research
Member since 5/05 16353 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by jellybean1420
Posted by shamrock124
You can roll your eyes at me but if you wanted to, go work at Morgan Stanley in their wealth advisor program. If you put in the hours and energy, in 5-6 years, you could be making close to 250k
Money is not a trade-off for me...I would rather be home for my children and my family and have a life!
That's her exact point. If you want to SACRIFICE other things, you COULD get to the 250K.
I could be making that on my own right now if I wanted to go into NYC for a comparable job to my current one, but I don't because the time with my family is more important to me.
I could make that by taking a second job or working from home at night after Logan goes to bed, but my sleep is important to me.
She never said you could make that much in your CURRENT job - but you could feasibly make it in total.
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:40 AM |
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Luv2bAmom
LIF Adult
Member since 2/08 1255 total posts
Name:
J
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Message edited 10/27/2008 1:14:34 PM.
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:40 AM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14021 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by Jennie0898
Posted by KittyTheStray
This is a common misconception. You don't understand how tax brackets work. The tax brackets are a tiered system, which means that only the amount of money above each cutoff is taxed at the higher rate, so you still have more 'take home money' at $300K than the person making $200K does.
BUMPING b/c people are MISSING this point.
How does AMT effect that?
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:42 AM |
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anonttcer
BOOOO for fall!
Member since 7/06 10082 total posts
Name:
Meaning a NON ttcer!
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Awesome response!
Because all I know is, my husband puts in the time - so much time that I barely see him and he barely has a life...tons of effort and energy... and wears a bullet proof vest to work- has been shot at, etc.. and I can write the book on the sacrafices he has made to be a NYC cop- a hell of a lot more than a "wealth advisor" will ever make for his job- and he doesn't even come CLOSE to making $250K.
So where is the logic?
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:44 AM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14021 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by anonttcer
Awesome response!
Because all I know is, my husband puts in the time - so much time that I barely see him and he barely has a life...tons of effort and energy... and wears a bullet proof vest to work- has been shot at, etc.. and I can write the book on the sacrafices he has made to be a NYC cop- a hell of a lot more than a "wealth advisor" will ever make for his job- and he doesn't even come CLOSE to making $250K.
So where is the logic?
Just for the record, I think 250K a year would still be less then what NYPD or any other uniformed job that puts their life on the line, should make.
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:49 AM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by Ophelia
some people have to SACRIFICE pay to do the work they LOVE.
So you don't think it's a sacrifice to do a job you don't enjoy so you can make a more of a salary?
Do you have any idea how FORTUNATE YOU ARE that you have a secure job with the GOVERNMENT? My father took a job with the government for that very reason!
I think you are taking my statement out of context.
I was referring specifically to certain jobs and how the pay of those jobs could NEVER reach the 250 amount, yet people take them b.c they LOVE them and have an incentive OTHER THAN money to do so.
I don't even really want to argue this point, b/c I thought my position on "working hard" was clear. I didn't pick one over the other.
I also don't believe I have EVER EVER EVER positioned myself as seeming "unfortunate" for having my job.
I feel extremely fortunate and VERY blessed.
I only take issue with the idea that b/c I will NEVER have a certain earning potential, it doesn't mean I work any less hard.
I am just  and  over this whole conversation 
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:49 AM |
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dandr10199
Grace is growing up too fast!
Member since 10/05 11561 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
I just wanted to say... if you are a cop, firefighter, or teacher and LOVE what you do, I know you work hard.
Where I personally have issue, is when people are irresponsible with their money and then cry poverty. Then want everyone to bail them out. For example: You cannot afford to pay your mortgage, you are in pre-foreclosure due to taking out a ARM rate mortgage 3 yrs ago, yet you will buy Elmo Live for all three of your kids, lease a new car, and overspend on Christmas gifts to keep up with the Jones'. Then these same people say how those who make over $250K are "lucky". Maybe they are more responsible with money???
I know my thoughts about this will not be popular. I know I am in a minority about curbing spending an living under your means. DH and I decided NOT to "keep up with the Jones" long ago, it was exhausting and went against our values. We are a lot happier with less "stuff" then we were with more "stuff" KWIM? It is hard for me to explain, but I see it on this board all the time...people who cry poverty and then get designer bags or tons of cr@p for their kids. To those of us who are responsible with money, is it infuriating.
Message edited 10/27/2008 10:50:33 AM.
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:50 AM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by dandr10199
I just wanted to say... if you are a cop, firefighter, or teacher and LOVE what you do, I know you work hard.
Where I personally have issue, is when people are irresponsible with their money and then cry poverty. Then want everyone to bail them out. For example: You cannot afford to pay your mortgage, you are in pre-foreclosure due to taking out a ARM rate mortgage 3 yrs ago, yet you will buy Elmo Live for all three of your kids, lease a new car, and overspend on Christmas gifts to keep up with the Jones'. Then these same people say how those who make over $250K are "lucky". Maybe they are more responsible with money???
I know my thoughts about this will not be popular. I know I am in a minority about curbing spending an living under your means. DH and I decided NOT to "keep up with the Jones" long ago, it was exhausting and went against our values. We are a lot happier with less "stuff" then we were with more "stuff" KWIM? It is hard for me to explain, but I see it on this board all the time...people who cry poverty and then get designer bags or tons of cr@p for their kids. To those of us who are responsible with money, is it infuriating.
this is totally different than what you EARN and what working HARD is.
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:52 AM |
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twiceasnice
LIF Adult
Member since 2/08 1126 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by dandr10199
I just wanted to say... if you are a cop, firefighter, or teacher and LOVE what you do, I know you work hard.
Where I personally have issue, is when people are irresponsible with their money and then cry poverty. Then want everyone to bail them out. For example: You cannot afford to pay your mortgage, you are in pre-foreclosure due to taking out a ARM rate mortgage 3 yrs ago, yet you will buy Elmo Live for all three of your kids, lease a new car, and overspend on Christmas gifts to keep up with the Jones'. Then these same people say how those who make over $250K are "lucky". Maybe they are more responsible with money???
I know my thoughts about this will not be popular. I know I am in a minority about curbing spending an living under your means. DH and I decided NOT to "keep up with the Jones" long ago, it was exhausting and went against our values. We are a lot happier with less "stuff" then we were with more "stuff" KWIM? It is hard for me to explain, but I see it on this board all the time...people who cry poverty and then get designer bags or tons of cr@p for their kids. To those of us who are responsible with money, is it infuriating.
I agree and I want to add that I feel that people who live above their means (including myself) are victims of society but should not "cry wolf" and place blame because every decision we make is still our own decision and should own up to it.
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:55 AM |
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Chatham-Chick
*********************
Member since 5/05 10311 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Holy sh*t. Sorry guys. I didn't mean to cause this much drama. 
I didn't take the article as being whiney. And not all people who make 250K+ are in the financial sector. A lot are small business owners or self employed.
I know for us, there's a huge risk in what my DH does. He's self employed and we're not guaranteed any income. And we've experienced that first hand! We won't have a pension waiting for us when we retire. It's solely up to us to save our pennies for a "rainy day".
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:56 AM |
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neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by anonttcer
So where is the logic?
I really don't think there is any logic to the pay scale in this country. I could give examples of some jobs that get paid very well and do less than other jobs that get paid a fraction of that and do so much more, but i'm sure that would do more harm than good, given the audience on these boards lately
There are also certain jobs, IMO, that could never be paid enough for what they do (such a cops! )
We don't make $250K. We probably could if we wanted to give up our lives to work, but we don't. I also don't feel sympathy for people who can't get by on $500K, BUT i hate when people dismiss some real points b/c they only focus on that one fact. I have a problem with the government taking my money. I have a problem trusting that if will be used appropriately and efficiently. And i have big problem with the imposition of (what really feels like) an income penalty in a country that's supposed to foster and encourage prosperity.
I'm surprised that, given the state of our economy and the Obivous dysfunction of our government, that people are so willing to give even more to them and assume that will fix it. It's like losing a dollar at the casino, and then thinking that you're chances are going to be any better by betting 5 dollars the next time. I don't get it.
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:57 AM |
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dandr10199
Grace is growing up too fast!
Member since 10/05 11561 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by dandr10199
I just wanted to say... if you are a cop, firefighter, or teacher and LOVE what you do, I know you work hard.
Where I personally have issue, is when people are irresponsible with their money and then cry poverty. Then want everyone to bail them out. For example: You cannot afford to pay your mortgage, you are in pre-foreclosure due to taking out a ARM rate mortgage 3 yrs ago, yet you will buy Elmo Live for all three of your kids, lease a new car, and overspend on Christmas gifts to keep up with the Jones'. Then these same people say how those who make over $250K are "lucky". Maybe they are more responsible with money???
I know my thoughts about this will not be popular. I know I am in a minority about curbing spending an living under your means. DH and I decided NOT to "keep up with the Jones" long ago, it was exhausting and went against our values. We are a lot happier with less "stuff" then we were with more "stuff" KWIM? It is hard for me to explain, but I see it on this board all the time...people who cry poverty and then get designer bags or tons of cr@p for their kids. To those of us who are responsible with money, is it infuriating.
this is totally different than what you EARN and what working HARD is.
But it is not. B/c if you earn less than $250K and invest your money properly and not over spend you could earn $250K on dividends and capital gains. For instance: If you earn $200K combined (you and DH) and you get $50K in capital gains from stocks or RE investments, you will be in that $250K bracket.
Also, my opinion is based on principle. There are some that work hard (like my Grandfather) live within or below their means and when he died we have no idea that he had a bunch of $$$$ in the bank. He was not a millionaire, but had money in the market that we never knew about. He sheltered the little he did have well and the last 10 yrs of his life he never wanted for anything, KWIM?
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:57 AM |
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Luv2bAmom
LIF Adult
Member since 2/08 1255 total posts
Name:
J
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Re: Article for those who consider 250K+ rich...
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by dandr10199
I just wanted to say... if you are a cop, firefighter, or teacher and LOVE what you do, I know you work hard.
Where I personally have issue, is when people are irresponsible with their money and then cry poverty. Then want everyone to bail them out. For example: You cannot afford to pay your mortgage, you are in pre-foreclosure due to taking out a ARM rate mortgage 3 yrs ago, yet you will buy Elmo Live for all three of your kids, lease a new car, and overspend on Christmas gifts to keep up with the Jones'. Then these same people say how those who make over $250K are "lucky". Maybe they are more responsible with money???
I know my thoughts about this will not be popular. I know I am in a minority about curbing spending an living under your means. DH and I decided NOT to "keep up with the Jones" long ago, it was exhausting and went against our values. We are a lot happier with less "stuff" then we were with more "stuff" KWIM? It is hard for me to explain, but I see it on this board all the time...people who cry poverty and then get designer bags or tons of cr@p for their kids. To those of us who are responsible with money, is it infuriating.
this is totally different than what you EARN and what working HARD is.
Exactly.
dandr10199 What you said above I agree with, people should live with in their means.
But the question I think we are debating is ar eyou rich if you make $250K or more, and should you be taxed at a higher rate.
And some I feel have suggested that if you make $250K or more you somehow worked harder than someone who does not, which I highly disagree with.
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| Posted 10/27/08 10:58 AM |
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