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mommyIam
Member since 7/09 9209 total posts
Name:
Shana
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BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
DS is 2 months. He latches on perfectly it seems and needs no help from me.
I can't tell you how devastated I've been about BF, I cry all the time about it. I've only ever wanted to EBF and even threw own formula samples. Now I'm FF for all feedings except one feeding in the morning.
I think I could be happy just being able to BF once a day, but it almost is never a good experience for either one of us, and I wish I knew how to fix it.
I give some gripe water before we start.
He starts fine, 5 minutes in, he get fussy and starts chewing on me like a tough steak. I burp him, usually he burps, if he doesn't I go undress him to check his diaper, give him some more gripe water, he calms down for a minute then starts screaming. So I put him to the other breast.
Again 5 minutes fine, and then groaning and screaming even.
I pick him up, and embarrassed to even admit, I cry a little, gather myself walk around with him, let him burp/spit up and try to convince myself maybe he's full.
10 minutes later, hes chewing on my shoulder, this is his ultimate hunger cue. He'll chew on anyone's shoulder when he's hungry.
I know I'm getting at least 3 ounces when I pump from both breasts. He usually eats 2.5-3.5 ounces of formula this time of day.
I ended up giving him a bottle of formula, he took 2 ounces and fell asleep.
I'm jealous of his bottle, and at wits end as to what I can be doing to at least have 1 joyous BF a day.
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Posted 5/12/10 9:33 AM  |
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Shelleybean11
Mommy of 2!
Member since 12/08 11013 total posts
Name:
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
It may be your let down, taking too long for him. Can you hand express a little or pump before you put him to the breast? He may be getting frustrated because of this.
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| Posted 5/12/10 9:36 AM |
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SweetTooth
I'm a tired mommy!
Member since 12/05 20105 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
Have you tried giving him a pacifier? He's going to drink from the bottle whether or not he's hungry because it is easy.
I hate to say it, but the fact that you are FF for all his feedings except for one is probably the problem. He KNOWS the bottle is so much easier than the breast, and so he's going to want it. He doesn't want to work for it, so he gets frustrated when he's breast feeding.
If you truly want to EBF, thats what I would do. Get rid of the bottles and only BF.
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| Posted 5/12/10 9:39 AM |
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CaMacho
Sisters :)
Member since 7/06 15112 total posts
Name:
Jess
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
Are you getting a let down? If you are only BFing once a day... are you pumping every few hours? If not your supply may be dwindling and its probably much easier for him to get milk from a bottle. 
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| Posted 5/12/10 9:45 AM |
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mommyIam
Member since 7/09 9209 total posts
Name:
Shana
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
Posted by Shelleybean11
It may be your let down, taking too long for him. Can you hand express a little or pump before you put him to the breast? He may be getting frustrated because of this.
my let down is fast and hard, but i wonder if the trickle afterwords is too slow 
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| Posted 5/12/10 9:49 AM |
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Blissful
Ultimate Expression of LOVE
Member since 6/08 4985 total posts
Name:
Maria
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
Posted by momytobein2010
Posted by Shelleybean11
It may be your let down, taking too long for him. Can you hand express a little or pump before you put him to the breast? He may be getting frustrated because of this.
my let down is fast and hard, but i wonder if the trickle afterwords is too slow
If your letdown is hard and fast than its too much for him. Next time you try a feeding lean back when you feed it may be a bit strange to find the right position but that will help to slow the let down. Also handexpress before.
I highly recomend you contact your local LLL.... those women are amazing and can help you. It's not too late to EBF or increase your feedings if you want to...
My daughter didn't latch until 7 W 5 D so she was bottle fed breast milk before that. and within a week of latching to teh breast she was EBF She is now 15 months and still BFing...
FM me for more ques or support!
Trust me... I spent HOURS screaming and crying because of BFing difficulties and was ready to give in 10X a day... Best advice someone gave me was DO NOT QUIT ON A BAD DAY....
every day sucked so I never gave up  And then she got it and it was AWESOME
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| Posted 5/12/10 10:07 AM |
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Shelleybean11
Mommy of 2!
Member since 12/08 11013 total posts
Name:
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
Posted by momytobein2010
Posted by Shelleybean11
It may be your let down, taking too long for him. Can you hand express a little or pump before you put him to the breast? He may be getting frustrated because of this.
my let down is fast and hard, but i wonder if the trickle afterwords is too slow
Can you try breast compression?
This is from Kellymom:
Baby wants a faster milk flow
Even very young babies can be quick to notice that pulling off, kneading the breast, etc. can cause an additional let-down, and can facilitate a faster, easier milk flow. Some babies become impatient with the slower milk flow following the initial fast flow at let-down. This may or may not be related to a slow let-down.
When a feeding begins at the breast there are drops of milk. Then when the initial let-down occurs (several seconds to a minute into the feeding), the milk flow speeds up quite a bit. At that time it may drip very quickly, squirt, or even spray. Some minutes later it slows again and the baby must continue to suck vigorously in order to elicit further let-downs. This pattern can continue through successive, multiple let-downs as long as the baby is continuing to nurse vigorously. Eventually, baby will learn that the flow will pick back up again if she'll only continue to vigorously suck/swallow.
With bottle feeding, the flow is instant and continuous. The baby is required to work very little. Once a baby has had a bottle, especially a lot of bottles, she may begin to prefer the ease of bottle-feeding over the work of breastfeeding. She may become frustrated at the breast after the first let-down occurs and the flow of milk begins to slow.
If baby is getting bottles you might consider putting them away, at least for a while. When you must use a bottle, only use a newborn nipple for as long as baby will tolerate it so that she never gets a really fast flow of milk from the bottle, but has to work a little more to get the milk.
Sometimes babies of moms with oversupply or fast let-down will also get very used to the fast flow and object when it normally slows somewhere between 3 weeks to 3 months.
It can be helpful to do some breast compression when this fussiness starts or right before you expect it to. This will help speed up the milk flow again. Once compression stops helping, try switching baby to the other side when she begins to fuss and back and forth again (after using compression) as you need to.
Baby is done nursing for the moment
If baby is fussing after she's been nursing for a while, and you've ruled out other causes, she may be in the process of changing her nursing pattern. Babies become very efficient at the breast with growth and maturity. They can milk the breast in a lot less time per feeding session than they required before. Baby's frustration may just be a sign that she's finished and wants to move on.
On a similar note, an occasional baby will just want to suck at the end of a nursing session and the flow of milk with let-down frustrates her. You might see if offering her a finger or pacifier (if baby is older than 4-6 weeks) to suck on during these times seems to help.
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| Posted 5/12/10 10:07 AM |
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Grill
LIF Adult
Member since 4/09 994 total posts
Name:
J
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
Did you go through these KellyMom Articles yet? It may also have something to do with the amount of work involved in sucking the milk out of your breast versus the ease of bottle sucking, that could be causing frustration. There are a handful of things that it could be related to....keep up the determination and patience in trying to figure it all out. I'm so sorry that you are experiencing this.
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| Posted 5/12/10 10:09 AM |
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mommyIam
Member since 7/09 9209 total posts
Name:
Shana
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
Posted by SweetTooth
Have you tried giving him a pacifier? He's going to drink from the bottle whether or not he's hungry because it is easy.
I hate to say it, but the fact that you are FF for all his feedings except for one is probably the problem. He KNOWS the bottle is so much easier than the breast, and so he's going to want it. He doesn't want to work for it, so he gets frustrated when he's breast feeding.
If you truly want to EBF, thats what I would do. Get rid of the bottles and only BF.
he will not take a pacifier, ive tried every brand. if hes in good mood he might chew on it a bit, and spit it out
your right, i started with 1 bottle at night, he was on me 24/7 i needed rest, ped rec formula at night, to help him sleep longer, it worked really well for several weeks
then he started the "angry BF" and couldn't deal, was in tears all day, id give bottles and pump, and recently my supply is dwindling
Ds seems to be the opposite, he never refuses breast, ever, i could put breast to him in his sleep he;ll latch at very least, but will refuse bottle. hell even push it out with his tongue and grimace. he has to be hungry for bottle.
I dont understand, how do I ebf only, if my baby is crying and screaming at my breast all day? dont we need to bulid back up to it?
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| Posted 5/12/10 10:13 AM |
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mommyIam
Member since 7/09 9209 total posts
Name:
Shana
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
Ive read kelly mom over and over, nothing really makes sense, I dont understand the advice of putting away the bottle, what if my baby is screaming and hungry?
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| Posted 5/12/10 10:17 AM |
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Blissful
Ultimate Expression of LOVE
Member since 6/08 4985 total posts
Name:
Maria
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
Posted by momytobein2010
Posted by SweetTooth
Have you tried giving him a pacifier? He's going to drink from the bottle whether or not he's hungry because it is easy.
I hate to say it, but the fact that you are FF for all his feedings except for one is probably the problem. He KNOWS the bottle is so much easier than the breast, and so he's going to want it. He doesn't want to work for it, so he gets frustrated when he's breast feeding.
If you truly want to EBF, thats what I would do. Get rid of the bottles and only BF.
he will not take a pacifier, ive tried every brand. if hes in good mood he might chew on it a bit, and spit it out
your right, i started with 1 bottle at night, he was on me 24/7 i needed rest, ped rec formula at night, to help him sleep longer, it worked really well for several weeks
then he started the "angry BF" and couldn't deal, was in tears all day, id give bottles and pump, and recently my supply is dwindling
Ds seems to be the opposite, he never refuses breast, ever, i could put breast to him in his sleep he;ll latch at very least, but will refuse bottle. hell even push it out with his tongue and grimace. he has to be hungry for bottle.
I dont understand, how do I ebf only, if my baby is crying and screaming at my breast all day? dont we need to bulid back up to it?
Your going through a lot of what I went through. I forced the breast so much that it became a bad place for us so all she had to do is see my breast and scream...
I did a LOT of skin to skin time just ot make her coming to my chest be a nice thing... then I'd try nursing her when she wasn't really really hungry quite yet. if she was starving she would NOT wait for the breast...
Try just hanging out on a comfy couch or chair with no shirt on and strip him down to a diaper and let him sleep on your chest a bit...
wake him up after about 1.5-2 hours and try putting him on the breast before he is too hungry...
Its a process... a LONG ONe but if you really want it you can get him strictly on teh breast.
Just try to make his time there whether it's a minute or 10 happy...
I really recomend LLL... those women helped me soooooo much with my daughter
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| Posted 5/12/10 10:19 AM |
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
I agree with PPs that kellymom.com is a wonderful resource.
If you want to EBF, I agree you can-lose the formula now! I repeat, stop giving formula!
DD also took awhile to latch and I gave her pumped milk in a bottle. Now at 10 weeks, my child refuses to take the bottle. We are happily EBFing here.
I have an overactive letdown. Try this-BF laying down with DS laying on top of you. I do this with DD and we don't have issues.
The letdown might be why he is screaming. Do you have any other issues with screaming and crying from him? I ask because it could be something else. I was also constantly giving mylicon and gripe and it turned out DD is a reflux baby and is a new child on Zantac.
Try fenugreek, mother's milk tea and oatmeal daily and pump every two hours to rebuild your supply. And start weaning him from a bottle of formula a day.
It is not going to be easy at first, as it was not easy when I decided constant pumping was a PITA but once they get the hang of it, they will insist on the boob!
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| Posted 5/12/10 10:23 AM |
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mommyIam
Member since 7/09 9209 total posts
Name:
Shana
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
Posted by Blissful
Your going through a lot of what I went through. I forced the breast so much that it became a bad place for us so all she had to do is see my breast and scream...
I did a LOT of skin to skin time just ot make her coming to my chest be a nice thing... then I'd try nursing her when she wasn't really really hungry quite yet. if she was starving she would NOT wait for the breast...
Try just hanging out on a comfy couch or chair with no shirt on and strip him down to a diaper and let him sleep on your chest a bit...
wake him up after about 1.5-2 hours and try putting him on the breast before he is too hungry...
Its a process... a LONG ONe but if you really want it you can get him strictly on teh breast.
Just try to make his time there whether it's a minute or 10 happy...
I really recomend LLL... those women helped me soooooo much with my daughter
I forgot about this! we used to this all the time, it was great for us! I'll try it again!
Now what about supply. I get a total of maybe 6 oz a day pumping
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| Posted 5/12/10 10:24 AM |
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jlk51496
Mom of 3 - YIKES! =)
Member since 10/09 6758 total posts
Name:
Katie
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
great advice from PPers so far..I agree with all of it! If you want to continue and i commend you for your strength and determination!
(I was another BTDT momma - cried and thought I was going to quit in the first month or 2 but after we got the hang of it and got over the 6-8 week hump...it was smooth sailing from then...and I did it a full year for both children)
it takes about that long for you to establish a routine and I agree with others that giving into the bottle is not good....They are very smart if they learn it comes easy, then why work for it at the breast...but if they learn that is all they are gonna get they might give in...so as hard as it sounds...hide the bottles until your DC is older and can handle the back and forth....
Newborns don't know how to do much - but one thing they do know is that sucking comforts them and it doesn't always mean they are hungry...if your DC is sucking on your shoulder it COULD mean she is hungry but also could mean that she wants to suck..my babies were both like this....I would offer the pacifier and that would work half the time other half I offered the breast!
Def check out great sites that got me through my first few months:
Kelly Mom
and
La Leche League Forum
I became "regulars" on these sites and esp on the forum bec I would ask specific ques and many BTDT moms and La Leche Ladies were right there to walk me through my struggles! Highly recommend them!
Please feel free to ask more questions on here or FM Hopefully things will get better! It is poss to continue..don't think it is over just yet! Good Luck!
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| Posted 5/12/10 10:26 AM |
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Blissful
Ultimate Expression of LOVE
Member since 6/08 4985 total posts
Name:
Maria
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
Posted by momytobein2010
Posted by Blissful
Your going through a lot of what I went through. I forced the breast so much that it became a bad place for us so all she had to do is see my breast and scream...
I did a LOT of skin to skin time just ot make her coming to my chest be a nice thing... then I'd try nursing her when she wasn't really really hungry quite yet. if she was starving she would NOT wait for the breast...
Try just hanging out on a comfy couch or chair with no shirt on and strip him down to a diaper and let him sleep on your chest a bit...
wake him up after about 1.5-2 hours and try putting him on the breast before he is too hungry...
Its a process... a LONG ONe but if you really want it you can get him strictly on teh breast.
Just try to make his time there whether it's a minute or 10 happy...
I really recomend LLL... those women helped me soooooo much with my daughter
I forgot about this! we used to this all the time, it was great for us! I'll try it again!
Now what about supply. I get a total of maybe 6 oz a day pumping
you got to keep putting him to the breast to bring your supply back up.. you can literally turn around your supply in like 2-3 days.
It will be a LOT OF WORK but I'd put him to the breast every 1.5-2 hours during the day to give him more practice at teh breast. Hopefully he won't be as hungry and will talke to latchign better and every time he nurses he signals to your body to make more milk. SO essentially you want to simulate cluster feeding which increases your supply.
Drink lots of water.
I sat on my couch for 3 days with the whole Gilmore girls series and just breast fed and after 3 days she was strictly on the boob...
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| Posted 5/12/10 10:28 AM |
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jlk51496
Mom of 3 - YIKES! =)
Member since 10/09 6758 total posts
Name:
Katie
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
Posted by momytobein2010
Now what about supply. I get a total of maybe 6 oz a day pumping
The pump is not a good determining factor of what your baby can get out of you...the pump is not as good! if you are still breast feeding you shouldnt be getting a lot!
You are also at the point where your body is stopping making an abundance and only making what your body thinks your baby needs...based on supply and demand...the more often at the breast the more your body will make!
I also suggest to start putting the baby on your breast BEFORE they are hungry that way they are not frustrated when they cant get enough out already! Your baby may be crying out of frustration...believe me your baby is NOT starving! are you changing 5 ish wet diapers a day...if so that is all you need to worry about!
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| Posted 5/12/10 10:32 AM |
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
I just want to add on the pacifier thing, since DD as you know won't take one either-offer a clean finger. She will suck on my finger instead and she is as happy as a clam. Try your finger.
I agree with Maria on hydrating. Also eat a little more during the day. When I eat properly and drink a ton, my supply went up. And eat oatmeal daily. It helped me.
I also agree with Maria (you are the pro Maria!) on skin to skin. You can even get a Moby wrap (they have them at BRU) and wrap him with you skin to skin in the wrap. I let DD sleep on my bare chest for hours.
Maria definitely has a lot of good advice  . I did everything she said, except I watched all 6 seasons of SATC on the couch!
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| Posted 5/12/10 10:34 AM |
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mommyIam
Member since 7/09 9209 total posts
Name:
Shana
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
Posted by munchkinfacemama
I just want to add on the pacifier thing, since DD as you know won't take one either-offer a clean finger. She will suck on my finger instead and she is as happy as a clam. Try your finger.
My mother said to try this, he will suck on the finger for 30 seconds, give me a dirty look and cry. Can he really be that smart? 
I know he used to just latch on my breast just for comfort when he was only a few weeks old. I started feeling like he was thinking of me only as comfort and not as food.
I'm going to try everything everyone recommended. Thank you so much and expect more questions from me. I'm determined!
ETA:
I shy away from LLL, the consultant I met in the hospital was great to get me started, but as soon as I ran into real trouble, I felt a lot of pressure and she made me feel so incompetent, I didn't like it. It wasn't "gentle" it made me more weepy than I already was. I'll poke around their site, but I'm hesitant.
Message edited 5/12/2010 10:55:50 AM.
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| Posted 5/12/10 10:50 AM |
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Lola
LIF Adult
Member since 1/07 1854 total posts
Name:
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
I had a lot of the same problems initially and it turned out to be a combination of a dairy allergy and an overactive letdown. I used a LC and she was really helpful.
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| Posted 5/12/10 10:53 AM |
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jlk51496
Mom of 3 - YIKES! =)
Member since 10/09 6758 total posts
Name:
Katie
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
Posted by momytobein2010
ETA:
I shy away from LLL, the consultant I met in the hospital was great to get me started, but as soon as I ran into real trouble, I felt a lot of pressure and she made me feel so incompetent, I didn't like it. It wasn't "gentle" it made me more weepy than I already was. I'll poke around their site, but I'm hesitant.
i actually felt their website was much more helpful than they wee in person! I also like the animosity lol...and it is mostly moms like us on there with a few LLL ladies!
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| Posted 5/12/10 10:59 AM |
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Blissful
Ultimate Expression of LOVE
Member since 6/08 4985 total posts
Name:
Maria
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
Posted by momytobein2010
Posted by munchkinfacemama
I just want to add on the pacifier thing, since DD as you know won't take one either-offer a clean finger. She will suck on my finger instead and she is as happy as a clam. Try your finger.
My mother said to try this, he will suck on the finger for 30 seconds, give me a dirty look and cry. Can he really be that smart?
I know he used to just latch on my breast just for comfort when he was only a few weeks old. I started feeling like he was thinking of me only as comfort and not as food.
I'm going to try everything everyone recommended. Thank you so much and expect more questions from me. I'm determined!
ETA:
I shy away from LLL, the consultant I met in the hospital was great to get me started, but as soon as I ran into real trouble, I felt a lot of pressure and she made me feel so incompetent, I didn't like it. It wasn't "gentle" it made me more weepy than I already was. I'll poke around their site, but I'm hesitant.
LLL is very different than a lactation consultant... My group, here ins CT is very supportive of all types of BFing.. EBF, supplementing etc. They have a great policy. Take what ever advice you like and leave teh rest at the door.
You can email your local LLL leader and she can contact you via email and phone for help or try a meeting...
It doesn't hurt to try!
I still attend LLL meetings to help out moms that may have experienced a situation like mine
Also Breastfeeding is not JUST about nutrition... comfort feeding is also a big componenet of it... I understand not wantign to be a pacifier 24/7 but remember he was inside of you for 9 months. BFing give him that attachement and secirity he needs... they don't comfort nurs as much when they get older unless you use it as a tool for tantrums liek I do!
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| Posted 5/12/10 11:01 AM |
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Shelleybean11
Mommy of 2!
Member since 12/08 11013 total posts
Name:
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
Posted by Blissful
Posted by momytobein2010
Posted by munchkinfacemama
I just want to add on the pacifier thing, since DD as you know won't take one either-offer a clean finger. She will suck on my finger instead and she is as happy as a clam. Try your finger.
My mother said to try this, he will suck on the finger for 30 seconds, give me a dirty look and cry. Can he really be that smart?
I know he used to just latch on my breast just for comfort when he was only a few weeks old. I started feeling like he was thinking of me only as comfort and not as food.
I'm going to try everything everyone recommended. Thank you so much and expect more questions from me. I'm determined!
ETA:
I shy away from LLL, the consultant I met in the hospital was great to get me started, but as soon as I ran into real trouble, I felt a lot of pressure and she made me feel so incompetent, I didn't like it. It wasn't "gentle" it made me more weepy than I already was. I'll poke around their site, but I'm hesitant.
LLL is very different than a lactation consultant... My group, here ins CT is very supportive of all types of BFing.. EBF, supplementing etc. They have a great policy. Take what ever advice you like and leave teh rest at the door.
You can email your local LLL leader and she can contact you via email and phone for help or try a meeting...
It doesn't hurt to try!
I still attend LLL meetings to help out moms that may have experienced a situation like mine
Also Breastfeeding is not JUST about nutrition... comfort feeding is also a big componenet of it... I understand not wantign to be a pacifier 24/7 but remember he was inside of you for 9 months. BFing give him that attachement and secirity he needs... they don't comfort nurs as much when they get older unless you use it as a tool for tantrums liek I do!
ITA about there being different types of BFing groups. Mine is so accepting of all types of BFing. There is no pressure, just support. I still go almost every week even though DS is 8 months and I am successfully BFing, to offer support to the new mommies . Definitely try and seek out a group in your area, if the one I recommended is too far.
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| Posted 5/12/10 11:14 AM |
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mommyIam
Member since 7/09 9209 total posts
Name:
Shana
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
another question:
do you think at 2 months post birth, I can still up my supply enough to be able to EBF?
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| Posted 5/12/10 11:26 AM |
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jlk51496
Mom of 3 - YIKES! =)
Member since 10/09 6758 total posts
Name:
Katie
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
Posted by momytobein2010
another question:
do you think at 2 months post birth, I can still up my supply enough to be able to EBF?
this is actually the best time...it is still early...just put at the breast as often as poss and your body will learn it needs to make more than it is already making! You can also pump after each feed....but you might not want to do that esp if the feeds are frustrating...but that is another way..You may only get a half oz total...but it is still stimulating the breasts to tell it it needs to make more! I also pumped every 2-3 hrs AROUND the clock when my DCS were newborns/infants!
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| Posted 5/12/10 11:39 AM |
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mommyIam
Member since 7/09 9209 total posts
Name:
Shana
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Re: BF moms I need even more advice, I'm not ready to give up
TY! TY! TY! TY! TY! TY! TY! TY! TY! TY! TY! TY!
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| Posted 5/12/10 11:49 AM |
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