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Breastfeeding Mom Sues for More Test-Taking Time
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dpli
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Member since 5/05 13973 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: Breastfeeding Mom Sues for More Test-Taking Time
I read the article and there are details missing that make it tough for me to decide one way or the other. If she is taking the exam in 2 days, I am guessing it is in two 4-5 hour sessions. If the original break was between the 2 sessions, is she still getting the 45 minute break (split between the 2 days) and then another 60 minutes each day? That seems excessive to me. I am not breast feeding yet, but to have an hour and 22 minutes to breast feed during a 4-5 hour test seems like a lot.
I will say that I have to take licensing exams that are 8 hours long. The morning session is 4 hours, you get a break for lunch (I think it was only 30 minutes) and the afternoon session is 4 hours. For the first exam I took, I needed every possible second of the four hours in the morning and almost all of the four hours of the afternoon. I had to stay very focused to be able to concentrate and do well. As someone else mentioned, I think taking more breaks would have made taking the test more difficult, not easier, because once you break your stride, it is tough to settle in and start again.
I also think that if they do grant her the breaks, it might be good for her to have a private room, which she could then use for BFing as well. Having her getting up several times during the test would be very distracting to me as another test taker.
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Posted 9/13/07 3:09 PM  |
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LuvMy2Girls
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Member since 5/05 11165 total posts
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Mommy
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Re: Breastfeeding Mom Sues for More Test-Taking Time
Having the right to breastfeed your baby whenever and where ever you want is totally different than what she's asking for- She wants another EXCEPTION made for JUST HER during this 1 test, how's that fair? How's that fair to other moms who bf or formula feed and are taking this test?
I applaud anyone who fights for bf'ing rights, but in this case she's not thinking of bf'ing moms all over, she's thinking of herself and asking 1 more thing too much.
And I am sorry this as nothing to do with equal rights for women.
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| Posted 9/13/07 3:36 PM |
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maybebaby
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 6870 total posts
Name:
Maureen
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Re: Breastfeeding Mom Sues for More Test-Taking Time
Posted by sweetness
Having the right to breastfeed your baby whenever and where ever you want is totally different than what she's asking for- She wants another EXCEPTION made for JUST HER during this 1 test, how's that fair? How's that fair to other moms who bf or formula feed and are taking this test?
I applaud anyone who fights for bf'ing rights, but in this case she's not thinking of bf'ing moms all over, she's thinking of herself and asking 1 more thing too much.
And I am sorry this as nothing to do with equal rights for women.
ITA!!!!!
This is NOT a "woman sues because she is prohibited from breastfeeding/pumping" this is someone wanting more rules bent for her.
So let me ask, what would happen if a woman did NOT pump but only exclusively breast fed her baby? Would her baby be brought into the exam for her every 3 hours to eat?? NO. A choice would be made....to either give formula for that time OR to not take a 9 hour exam. I'm sorry but I think this case is way different and I am all for womens rights to breastfeed whereever/whenever...
Message edited 9/13/2007 3:46:02 PM.
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| Posted 9/13/07 3:45 PM |
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JessieQ
Rest in Peace baby Rogan
Member since 6/07 1122 total posts
Name:
Jessica
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Re: Breastfeeding Mom Sues for More Test-Taking Time
Posted by Bxgell2
I think this is the whole point, really. That is, why should it be so hard to expect that she can take a break every 3 hours? Women are pushed in so many ways - we now have the freedom to work, and pursue our careers, but with that comes SO much judgment with regard to how much time we are dedicating to our families. So, then we are pushed to breastfeed.
I still think she's asking for a huge exception of the rules, and honestly whether it's fair or not there are probably hundreds of other people taking that test that either also are breastfeeding or have other issues that would make more frequent breaks more comfortable for them. If I understand correctly she would get a total of 2 hours extra break during the 2-day test, and as other said having this extra break could give her an advantage- I think the test is that long partially because it is stressful- you have to be able to handle lots of stress with few breaks as a doctor. If she becomes a doctor, or a researcher, she will have to balance being a mother as well, and will have to work even harder than those without kids and outside committments- this will be tough but will make her stronger in the end. Is it fair, no.
However, I do see your point, maybe her lawsuit will bring changes in the test. I think there will be a change eventually, as more women who are also mothers become doctors, and they get into positions of power (like this medical board), I'm sure we'll see changes. And like I said before, I feel bad for her because it's hard for women, we were brought up being told we could do anything, but also feel the pressure to be the perfect mother. And maybe it takes someone who knows the "system" and has experience with getting extra time for her disabilites to do something like this...
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| Posted 9/13/07 3:58 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Breastfeeding Mom Sues for More Test-Taking Time
Posted by JessieQ
Posted by Bxgell2
I think this is the whole point, really. That is, why should it be so hard to expect that she can take a break every 3 hours? Women are pushed in so many ways - we now have the freedom to work, and pursue our careers, but with that comes SO much judgment with regard to how much time we are dedicating to our families. So, then we are pushed to breastfeed.
I still think she's asking for a huge exception of the rules, and honestly whether it's fair or not there are probably hundreds of other people taking that test that either also are breastfeeding or have other issues that would make more frequent breaks more comfortable for them. If I understand correctly she would get a total of 2 hours extra break during the 2-day test, and as other said having this extra break could give her an advantage- I think the test is that long partially because it is stressful- you have to be able to handle lots of stress with few breaks as a doctor. If she becomes a doctor, or a researcher, she will have to balance being a mother as well, and will have to work even harder than those without kids and outside committments- this will be tough but will make her stronger in the end. Is it fair, no.
However, I do see your point, maybe her lawsuit will bring changes in the test. I think there will be a change eventually, as more women who are also mothers become doctors, and they get into positions of power (like this medical board), I'm sure we'll see changes. And like I said before, I feel bad for her because it's hard for women, we were brought up being told we could do anything, but also feel the pressure to be the perfect mother. And maybe it takes someone who knows the "system" and has experience with getting extra time for her disabilites to do something like this...
Honestly, I'm on the fence about it - one part of me thinks, yes, she really is asking them to bend over backwards, and the fact is the profession she has chosen is a difficult and stressful one, and one that she will have to adapt to if she wants to have a family at the same time.
Then another part of me thinks, wait a second, why *should* we always be expected to make that choice, to make that sacrifice, when most, granted, not all, but most of our counterparts never have to even hesitate over these kind of issues? That part of me looks proudly upon her as someone who is willing to push back on the "establishment" and say, uh-uh, your expectations, and status quo, is wrong.
Yes, she's filing this suit on behalf of herself, but really, most policies that are attacked, are attacked on an individual basis, and that's where a more general, accomodating policy arises for all.
While I certainly don't think the Board should bend over backwards, I DO think that if she can provide documentation showing that it is a significant hardship for her to sit through a 4 hour exam without pumping, then an accomodation should be made. Not just for her, but more generally, to the Board policies.
I look at it this way - yes, everyone has their own issues they are dealing with that are a distraction, or a hardship. But, the point of our civil rights laws is to make sure that any hardship that is based on gender only, is compensated for so that men and women may participate on an equal footing.
If this woman is taking a 9 hour practicum and is only given a 45 minute break, so that during the 4 hour portions of the exam she is experiencing fever, hot flashes, leaking, and serious pain in her chest, whereas a male counterpart can concentrate 100% on his exam, then perhaps it is appropriate to give her a 5-10 minute break to pump to relieve the pressure.
That's my take on it - but, again, I'm on the fence on this one - I can be swayed either way, particularly by many of the articulate and intelligent ladies on here  
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| Posted 9/13/07 4:12 PM |
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LuvMy2Girls
@>---------
Member since 5/05 11165 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: Breastfeeding Mom Sues for More Test-Taking Time
Beth you see the "whole bigger picture" across the board with how this could affect women in the future and I really hope this woman sees her fight as an individual not for herself but for the whole. But on the other hand, is it really really about Breastfeeding or just her own situation...
I really hope she does and doesn't go on in her proffession just asking for more and more accomodations for herself just because she is a bf'ing mom.
Being a bf'ing mom should not be classified as a disability in my opinion.
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| Posted 9/13/07 4:20 PM |
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dpli
Daylight savings :)
Member since 5/05 13973 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: Breastfeeding Mom Sues for More Test-Taking Time
Posted by Bxgell2
Yes, she's filing this suit on behalf of herself, but really, most policies that are attacked, are attacked on an individual basis, and that's where a more general, accomodating policy arises for all.
This is my thought on it too, but the fact that she already has other accommodations complicates the decision. If she were taking the standard 9 hour test with the 45 minute break, I think she would have a better case and would apply to any BFing woman in the future if she won.
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| Posted 9/13/07 4:29 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Breastfeeding Mom Sues for More Test-Taking Time
Posted by sweetness
Beth you see the "whole bigger picture" across the board with how this could affect women in the future and I really hope this woman sees her fight as an individual not for herself but for the whole. But on the other hand, is it really really about Breastfeeding or just her own situation...
I really hope she does and doesn't go on in her proffession just asking for more and more accomodations for herself just because she is a bf'ing mom.
Being a bf'ing mom should not be classified as a disability in my opinion.
Ahhh, well, I suppose working as a Civil Rights Attorney for 6 months has colored my vision a little
No, BFing shouldn't, and has never been viewed as a disability, but rather, I see it falling more within the spectrum of rights protected under gender equity. So, to put women on equal footing with men, certain accomodations must be made for impediments that men don't experience, that, at the same time, puts a woman on an uneven playing field.
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| Posted 9/13/07 4:29 PM |
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JessieQ
Rest in Peace baby Rogan
Member since 6/07 1122 total posts
Name:
Jessica
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Re: Breastfeeding Mom Sues for More Test-Taking Time
Posted by Bxgell2
I look at it this way - yes, everyone has their own issues they are dealing with that are a distraction, or a hardship. But, the point of our civil rights laws is to make sure that any hardship that is based on gender only, is compensated for so that men and women may participate on an equal footing.
If this woman is taking a 9 hour practicum and is only given a 45 minute break, so that during the 4 hour portions of the exam she is experiencing fever, hot flashes, leaking, and serious pain in her chest, whereas a male counterpart can concentrate 100% on his exam, then perhaps it is appropriate to give her a 5-10 minute break to pump to relieve the pressure.
That's my take on it - but, again, I'm on the fence on this one - I can be swayed either way, particularly by many of the articulate and intelligent ladies on here
I am sort of on the fence too, your arguments definitely make a lot of sense to me (no wonder you're a civil rights lawyer!), I am actually hoping her case will cause a positive change.
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| Posted 9/13/07 4:55 PM |
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stickydust
Now a mommy of 2!!!
Member since 4/06 3164 total posts
Name:
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Re: Breastfeeding Mom Sues for More Test-Taking Time
I can't help but to feel as other posters have mentioned, that this is not necessarily a "women's issue". Yes, there are certain struggles that are inherent in women but to keep making speciall allowances will not, in my opinion, put us on equal footing.
She did choose a profession that is challenging at best and grueling at worst and it is the ability to deal with those emotianal and physical demands that makes one a capable doctor.
What about women who do not breastfeed, either because they chose not to or they can't, they then get fewer breaks as will men who are also exhausted.
I think these special accomodation will result in more resentment and perhaps fewer opportunities for women. I know, that if concessions like this were granted I would be less likely to choose a surgeon if I know she is breastfeeding for fear of any implications that that may have in my care.
Furthermore, there are many things that are inherent to each gender. Heck, men get uncontrollable erections all the time - does that mean they should be able to take breaks to relieve them all the time?
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| Posted 9/13/07 5:01 PM |
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Disneygirl
Disney cruise bound!
Member since 5/05 8126 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: Breastfeeding Mom Sues for More Test-Taking Time
Great arguments for both sides. I'm curious to see how this works out in court.
Just wanted to add how great you ladies are that we were able to debate this intelligently w/out personal attacks. I enjoyed this thank you! 
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| Posted 9/13/07 5:22 PM |
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Karen
Just chillin'!!
Member since 1/06 9690 total posts
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Karen
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Re: Breastfeeding Mom Sues for More Test-Taking Time
Posted by stickydust
I think these special accomodation will result in more resentment and perhaps fewer opportunities for women. I know, that if concessions like this were granted I would be less likely to choose a surgeon if I know she is breastfeeding for fear of any implications that that may have in my care.
that is my concern also. Let's say the medical board does decide to accomodate her. I feel like it is going to be a very hollow (and short-term) victory. Her residency begins and what?? She has to have time off every 3 hours? How are the other residents in her group going to respond to that? How are her superiors going to respond? Realistically - she is going to miss out on opportunities if she needs time off every 3 hours. I would think most major surgeries take more than 3 hours from start to finish.
And now what happens the next time a woman with small children applies to the program? Are the administrators going to think twice? Totally, totally unfair, but it could happen.
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| Posted 9/13/07 5:27 PM |
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waytogo
Balancing act on a highwire
Member since 5/05 1292 total posts
Name:
a
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Re: Breastfeeding Mom Sues for More Test-Taking Time
Ummm...I'm also an MD/PhD and I took the third part of that licensing exam (which is 2 DAYS long) 6 months pregnant and I didn't get ANY allowances. I had sciatica at the time and couldn't sit still. Getting up to stand is a "reportable irregularity"!
Good for her for trying but I doubt it will work even though she is just asking for more break time, not more testing time. You get a 45 minute break in there to use when and how you want. Meaning you can take 7 breaks or 1. If you finish sections early you can use that time as well (although most people don't work that fast... )
ETA: When I had the baby as an intern it was difficult to get time to pump, but it wasn't an option for me not to BF since I had so much time away from baby it was a thing I was determined to do. I pumped every 4-5 hours in a call room with a pager, phone, and computer next to me while doing work and eating while using a hands free setup. I've passed orders under doors and thrown down pump bottles putting my shirt back together and run to sick patients when it was needed. I've also been walked in on MANY times because doors didn't lock 
Now DS is 8mo old and I'm still BFing now pumping before clinic and during lunch if we get it. I do have to mump at 2am to make up for the infrequent pumping during the day (YAWN). NOT an easy task but doable if you're willing to be stubborn and give up some privacy and modesty. We should be good example for our patients. Balancing work and life is something everyone does and physicians should learn to do the same. Being a doctor with no personal life doesn't make a good doctor IMO.
I'll let you know how being in surgery and BFing works in a few weeks. Most surgeries aren't 9 hours long. If they are, it usually requires more than just you operating anyway so I don't see being a BFing surgeon as a problem either...
Message edited 9/14/2007 1:44:28 AM.
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| Posted 9/14/07 1:26 AM |
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MsG
Should be working
Member since 5/05 2824 total posts
Name:
G
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Re: Breastfeeding Mom Sues for More Test-Taking Time
I think we're missing the point that by not taking a break to BF, it's her infant who may suffer, not just her.
And of course she's only fighting for herself, this isn't a class-action suit.
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| Posted 9/14/07 3:30 AM |
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