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Mommy2Boys
My Boys!!!!
Member since 6/06 14437 total posts
Name:
C
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Posted by seaside
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by seaside
I loathe the term "illegals" because we are talking about human beings with dignity. The issue for me is that we need clear rules about immigration and citizenship--whatever they are. We need to know what the rules are, to whom they apply, and what the conequences are of breaking them. Straight-clear. As with all laws, these laws should be status blind, color blind, and apply to all.
As for the popcorn...I'm not sure what it says about any of us or this conversation. I like things that advance the discusson....
but if they're here illegally, call them pretty flowers or anything you want, they're still not legal citizens who entered this country illegally, or stayed longer w/o permission.
No. You're 100% right about that. I was just commenting on my personal distaste for the term, although it's widely used. You're right--terminology doesn't chnage the reality.
My Aunt calls them "Espaniola's"  I think she pulled that one out of her arse.
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Posted 10/7/08 7:14 PM  |
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MrsRivera
2 under 2...whew!!
Member since 2/07 9876 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Wow. So much for "Give me your tired, your poor". As long as WE'RE here and WE'RE legal, to hell with everyone else, right? None of OUR ancestors were ever in this situation, being the outcasts of society...right?
And as far as "get legal or get out"...I'd LOVE for you to see what immigrants have to go through to "get legal" nowadays. 
Message edited 10/7/2008 7:41:10 PM.
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| Posted 10/7/08 7:40 PM |
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MegZee
My bunny
Member since 5/06 8777 total posts
Name:
Meaghan
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Posted by MrsRivera
Wow. So much for "Give me your tired, your poor". As long as WE'RE here and WE'RE legal, to hell with everyone else, right? None of OUR ancestors were ever in this situation, being the outcasts of society...right?
My relatives came here LEGALLY, so no they weren't in this situation.
but they were outcasts of society - ever see the movie "far and away" with Tom Cruise & Nicole Kidman on how the Irish were treated when they came here?
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| Posted 10/7/08 7:47 PM |
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MrsRivera
2 under 2...whew!!
Member since 2/07 9876 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Posted by Meaghan729
Posted by MrsRivera
Wow. So much for "Give me your tired, your poor". As long as WE'RE here and WE'RE legal, to hell with everyone else, right? None of OUR ancestors were ever in this situation, being the outcasts of society...right?
My relatives came here LEGALLY, so no they weren't in this situation.
but they were outcasts of society - ever see the movie "far and away" with Tom Cruise & Nicole Kidman on how the Irish were treated when they came here?
Yes. My family came here from Ireland in the 1880s. They came legally too, but back then, at least coming legally was a feasible option.
We actually have letters and old diary entries from my ancestors about how they were treated. Two of them worked on the Brooklyn Bridge.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, times have changed--oppressed people in other countries are STILL looking to come here for personal freedom, and we've essentially sent the message to them that they aren't welcome. Well, over 100 years ago, we weren't exactly "welcome", but here we are.
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| Posted 10/7/08 7:54 PM |
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seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
We can do one of several things. We can alter the requirements for legality. We can dismantle the notion of borders and let people come here safelywithout restriction. We can enforce the current rules on the books.
Personally, I've always opposed systems that reward the people who evade the rules or that create peverse incentives for people to risk life and limb to get what they want and disfavor those who want things as much as anyone else, but respect the rules and sit on their hands....
We need to do something though.
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| Posted 10/7/08 8:00 PM |
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OStewarts
LIF Adult
Member since 11/07 1096 total posts
Name:
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Wow, I am surprised that there are only a handful of posters on here who touched upon the FRAUD and THEFT committed by the very Employers who hire undocumented workers. (I caps locked those two words only because they seems to be at the base of what some posters here are so very concerned about).
Like I said, I have more of an issue with the EMPLOYERS who hire undocumented workers than the undocumented workers themselves.
Seriously, what's worse?? A person who commits what I think amounts to a misdemeanor (over staying on their visa or crossing the border) and uses someone else's ssn to try to play by the rules the best they can, as opposed to a POS business owner who hires undocumented workers (also a crime), exploits them, fails to pay them their wages (unlawful), minimum wage (unlawful)or their well deserved overtime pay (unlawful) and then fires them when they speak up (unlawful), file a complaint or call a union (unlawful and unlawful)? There are some business owners who truly believe that undocumented workers are to be treated like slaves or indentured servants. Certain employers have been criminally prosecuted for knowingly exposing undocumented workers to asbestos and unsafe scaffolding, causing their death. The employers hired undocumented workers because they are less inclined to speak up!
On top of this, the POS Employer who does not does not contribute to our state unemployment insurance (fraud)or the states' workers comp fund (fraud), does not make disability insurance payments and puts honest business owners out of business by making competition impossible (just plain wrong).
Also, I know so many people who lie and cheat on their taxes (including business owners) and they somehow think this is okay ("a victimless crime") whereas it's wrong for an undocumented worker to not pay taxes?? Let's call a spade a spade...they're both wrong.
By the way, I just want to echo a PP who mentioned that it is nearly impossible to come here legally. There are only a very, very limited number of green cards available and its really impossible to get one - even if you apply - and play by the rules and Even if a family member (who is legal) offers to be responsible and sponsor you. Using a friend or relative's SSN is, in my experience, often their attempt to pay their fair share and to try to play by the rules, as best they can.
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| Posted 10/7/08 8:58 PM |
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PaddysGirl
Little princess is here!
Member since 4/07 5923 total posts
Name:
Crystal
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Posted by Ophelia
outrageous.
the first thing they should do is let the illegal aliens die in the street. that is where they belong....this way, they won't even have to use up any gas transporting them back across the border.
I can not even read the rest of this post, though I want to. THis is just too narrow minded for me. I understand that everyone has their own views, I respect that. but this is uncalled for ... sarcastic or not.
I would rather my tax dollars to go hard working mexican immigrants than those "white folk" ( US citizens) that abuse and milk the system.
Illegal immigration is a problem but so is abuse of the system. Personally I think that is worse
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| Posted 10/7/08 9:51 PM |
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browneyedgirl
family is all that matters
Member since 6/06 6513 total posts
Name:
browneyes
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Posted by Crystal
I would rather my tax dollars to go hard working mexican immigrants than those "white folk" ( US citizens) that abuse and milk the system.
white folk????? are you kidding? so all US citizens are white folk? white folk are the only ones who abuse and milk the system? how about just calling them AMERICAN CITIZENS. clearly all US citizens are NOT white.
to the OP: i think it's outrageous. don't give CA a dime. illegal immigration is just that--illegal.
it's illegal for me to murder someone, even if that person was a derelict in society. society would be better off because he's gone and can't continue to rape/rob/murder/etc, but i would be in jail because it's ILLEGAL and i broke the law. so no, CA shouldn't get a dime IMO.
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| Posted 10/7/08 10:04 PM |
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CallaLily
Thank you, Saint Gerard!
Member since 10/07 4937 total posts
Name:
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Posted by browneyedgirl
Posted by Crystal
I would rather my tax dollars to go hard working mexican immigrants than those "white folk" ( US citizens) that abuse and milk the system.
white folk????? are you kidding? so all US citizens are white folk? white folk are the only ones who abuse and milk the system? how about just calling them AMERICAN CITIZENS. clearly all US citizens are NOT white.
to the OP: i think it's outrageous. don't give CA a dime. illegal immigration is just that--illegal.
it's illegal for me to murder someone, even if that person was a derelict in society. society would be better off because he's gone and can't continue to rape/rob/murder/etc, but i would be in jail because it's ILLEGAL and i broke the law. so no, CA shouldn't get a dime IMO.
ITA!
The bottom line is that they are not legal citizens of the United States and should not have the benefits of one.
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| Posted 10/7/08 10:52 PM |
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Reese1106
Family of 4! :o)
Member since 8/06 6655 total posts
Name:
Theresa
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Not sure I'm right and I'm not defending anyone but I think the she meant she'd rather her tax $$ go to people who came here legally and follow the rules required to be here as opposed to people, US citizen or not, who break the rules and obtain $$ and benefits which they are not entitled to. I don't agree at all with the "white folk" designation however.
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| Posted 10/7/08 10:58 PM |
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passerby
LIF Zygote
Member since 8/08 47 total posts
Name:
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Probably going to ramble a bit I know there are a few issues going on, but
They are illegals! they are here illagelly so that makes them illegals. Many of our anchestors did come here from other countries but were proud to become apart of America and work hard for little money, taking housework jobs while getting legal status.
Milking the system!! Too many people milk the system. There is not enough of us paying into the system to support all the programs and freebies that lazy people and illegals take advantage of.
In terms of the jobs they do that nobody else wants to. I don't believe that. My daughter just took a job for a little money i don't see why its even worth it to drive there but it pays for her gas. Also I grew up helping my dad do work around the house. Today I can do repairs on my house because of it. Also My husband did home improvements while going to school and he is able to do a lot of work around the house. I think that our kids should be out there learning some of these trades that the illegals do it can only help them later on.
Also maybe so many of these illegals can do the work for little money that nobody else wants because they are using someones elses number to pay taxes so they show no income and then are able to milk the system getting two income which they probably send back to "their country"
And "paying sales tax" doesn't even compare to the taxes we American Citizens are paying!
JMO
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| Posted 10/8/08 7:29 AM |
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PaddysGirl
Little princess is here!
Member since 4/07 5923 total posts
Name:
Crystal
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Posted by browneyedgirl
Posted by Crystal
I would rather my tax dollars to go hard working mexican immigrants than those "white folk" ( US citizens) that abuse and milk the system.
white folk????? are you kidding? so all US citizens are white folk? white folk are the only ones who abuse and milk the system? how about just calling them AMERICAN CITIZENS. clearly all US citizens are NOT white.
to the OP: i think it's outrageous. don't give CA a dime. illegal immigration is just that--illegal.
it's illegal for me to murder someone, even if that person was a derelict in society. society would be better off because he's gone and can't continue to rape/rob/murder/etc, but i would be in jail because it's ILLEGAL and i broke the law. so no, CA shouldn't get a dime IMO.
I was being sarcastic with the "white folk" comment, hence the quotation marks. (Also I had several people I know in mind) My point was we have serveral problems with where money is being spent. Those that abuse the system because they are LAZY and then we have the illegal immigrants. It's a mess that the government needs to fix. But I don't see that happening ...
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| Posted 10/8/08 8:33 AM |
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PaddysGirl
Little princess is here!
Member since 4/07 5923 total posts
Name:
Crystal
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Posted by Reese1106
Not sure I'm right and I'm not defending anyone but I think the she meant she'd rather her tax $$ go to people who came here legally and follow the rules required to be here as opposed to people, US citizen or not, who break the rules and obtain $$ and benefits which they are not entitled to. I don't agree at all with the "white folk" designation however.
Exactly what I meant. And again, no harm was meant with the "white folk" (I just personally know several at the current moment) comments. System abusers come in every shape and form
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| Posted 10/8/08 8:36 AM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Posted by Crystal
Exactly what I meant. And again, no harm was meant with the "white folk" (I just personally know several at the current moment) comments. System abusers come in every shape and form
I am just  and  that you could write that after being so   about what I wrote!
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| Posted 10/8/08 10:05 AM |
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
THis is a touchy subject but i believe that everyone needs to come to this country legally!!!! Like my grandparents did, some people mentioned that americans wont do the jobs they do, thats because they will most likely work for soooo cheap, why because 30 of them will live in a one bedroom apt, and make there money (using illegal ss#) and return to there countries rich as kings, now once they leave all those owed taxes that they didnt pay using fake SS# gets put back on the people who live here legally....I worked in the restaurant business and spoke to many cooks who said once they 30K they can move home and be set for life..
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| Posted 10/8/08 10:31 AM |
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dgtlsunshine
LIF Infant
Member since 12/05 217 total posts
Name:
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Posted by Erica
having lived in CA and worked for MediCal - illegal immigrants are a huge part of the CA workforce and economy. Most do not abuse the system and provide benefits to all Americans (mostly cheap agricultural products...ex - avacadoes can be as low as $.25 each in CA). Even Arnold recognized their importance
These statements really upset me and I am not picking at your Erica. This is a statement I constantly hear in our news media. Is it me or have we all heard this before?
If I remember correctly this was the South states excuse for slavery when the North wanted to end slavery. They said we can not survie with out the free labor. Now our excuse is cheap labor.
Unless we are working to make these people legal and provide opportunities for them to have a better life, which to me is not picking up the garbage and cleaning my house we need to send all illegals back to their country.
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| Posted 10/8/08 11:22 AM |
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PaddysGirl
Little princess is here!
Member since 4/07 5923 total posts
Name:
Crystal
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Actually my was over the comments about letting them die in the street, not the view of illegals being illegal. Illegal is illegal.
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| Posted 10/8/08 12:02 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Posted by Crystal
Actually my was over the comments about letting them die in the street, not the view of illegals being illegal. Illegal is illegal.
I take it you got my point after reading the rest of my posts?
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| Posted 10/8/08 2:04 PM |
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Luv2bAmom
LIF Adult
Member since 2/08 1255 total posts
Name:
J
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by Janice
first are we talking about just the brown illegal aliens or white ones too?
people seem to be much more tolerant of those that come off a boat then those who ran over a border.
I'm assuming it's mostly Mexicans, since they border CA.
Of course you do!
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| Posted 10/8/08 2:08 PM |
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MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
California was part of Mexico for longer than it has been part of the US......I'm just saying......
(Not to say that all immigrants there are from Mexico, because of course that is not the case, but my point is merely that people that are considered "illegals" may have very well been here before the US was the US......)
Message edited 10/8/2008 2:11:52 PM.
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| Posted 10/8/08 2:10 PM |
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Erica
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 11767 total posts
Name:
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Posted by dgtlsunshine
Posted by Erica
having lived in CA and worked for MediCal - illegal immigrants are a huge part of the CA workforce and economy. Most do not abuse the system and provide benefits to all Americans (mostly cheap agricultural products...ex - avacados can be as low as $.25 each in CA). Even Arnold recognized their importance
These statements really upset me and I am not picking at your Erica. This is a statement I constantly hear in our news media. Is it me or have we all heard this before?
If I remember correctly this was the South states excuse for slavery when the North wanted to end slavery. They said we can not survie with out the free labor. Now our excuse is cheap labor.
it's a decent (and admirable) point, but I don't think it's exactly comparable. lack of freedom is a bit different than choosing to cross the border and be a migrant worker. We have property in Mexico and have seen both sides of illegal immigration.
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| Posted 10/8/08 6:42 PM |
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JessInCA
live laugh love
Member since 8/06 5082 total posts
Name:
Jess
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Posted by MsMBV
California was part of Mexico for longer than it has been part of the US......I'm just saying......
(Not to say that all immigrants there are from Mexico, because of course that is not the case, but my point is merely that people that are considered "illegals" may have very well been here before the US was the US......)
I've heard this argument/point before, and I have a genuine question about it.
California became a state in 1850. If the "illegal immigrants" (or their Mexican ancestors, since obviously no one lives to be over 150 years old) were already living in the part of California that became the US, wouldn't they have been granted citizenship at that time? Or let's say they didn't get citizenship, but they did stay in California and have children and future generations in the new country - any children born after 1850 would be legal citizens, because someone born on US soil is automatically a citizen, right? So I don't understand the argument and how that applies to current illegal immigrants. Unless you mean that the land belonged to their nation back then, therefore it should be open to people of their nation now?
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| Posted 10/8/08 7:08 PM |
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MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Posted by JessInCA
Posted by MsMBV
California was part of Mexico for longer than it has been part of the US......I'm just saying......
(Not to say that all immigrants there are from Mexico, because of course that is not the case, but my point is merely that people that are considered "illegals" may have very well been here before the US was the US......)
I've heard this argument/point before, and I have a genuine question about it.
California became a state in 1850. If the "illegal immigrants" (or their Mexican ancestors, since obviously no one lives to be over 150 years old) were already living in the part of California that became the US, wouldn't they have been granted citizenship at that time? Or let's say they didn't get citizenship, but they did stay in California and have children and future generations in the new country - any children born after 1850 would be legal citizens, because someone born on US soil is automatically a citizen, right? So I don't understand the argument and how that applies to current illegal immigrants. Unless you mean that the land belonged to their nation back then, therefore it should be open to people of their nation now?
I understand where you are coming from, and I completely agree with the validity of your point. I was making a point about how we feel to need to take over the world & dictate to everyone else how to live, but then shun people of other cultures in general - legal or not. Just a snarky remark on my part really and not at all helpful in this arguement.
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| Posted 10/8/08 7:11 PM |
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JessInCA
live laugh love
Member since 8/06 5082 total posts
Name:
Jess
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Posted by MsMBV
Posted by JessInCA
Posted by MsMBV
California was part of Mexico for longer than it has been part of the US......I'm just saying......
(Not to say that all immigrants there are from Mexico, because of course that is not the case, but my point is merely that people that are considered "illegals" may have very well been here before the US was the US......)
I've heard this argument/point before, and I have a genuine question about it.
California became a state in 1850. If the "illegal immigrants" (or their Mexican ancestors, since obviously no one lives to be over 150 years old) were already living in the part of California that became the US, wouldn't they have been granted citizenship at that time? Or let's say they didn't get citizenship, but they did stay in California and have children and future generations in the new country - any children born after 1850 would be legal citizens, because someone born on US soil is automatically a citizen, right? So I don't understand the argument and how that applies to current illegal immigrants. Unless you mean that the land belonged to their nation back then, therefore it should be open to people of their nation now?
I understand where you are coming from, and I completely agree with the validity of your point. I was making a point about how we feel to need to take over the world & dictate to everyone else how to live, but then shun people of other cultures in general - legal or not. Just a snarky remark on my part really and not at all helpful in this arguement.
I didn't even really have a point, I was just confused I see what you're saying now. 
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| Posted 10/8/08 7:16 PM |
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MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: CA is asking for a $7B bailout, but spends
Posted by JessInCA
Posted by MsMBV
I understand where you are coming from, and I completely agree with the validity of your point. I was making a point about how we feel to need to take over the world & dictate to everyone else how to live, but then shun people of other cultures in general - legal or not. Just a snarky remark on my part really and not at all helpful in this arguement.
I didn't even really have a point, I was just confused I see what you're saying now.
You totally did have a point, and it was a good one!
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| Posted 10/8/08 7:18 PM |
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