CIO Failure - UPDATE SUCCESS!!!

OMG, we tried CIO for the first time tonight and I'm not sure who cried more. At first I put him in his crib with his bottle and hoped he'd go down. He finished his bottle, I gave him his paci and he stayed quiet for about 5 minutes. Then the crying began. I told myself I'd give it 5 minutes. But couldn't even make it past 2. I thought I was going to throw up. I left the room again and the crying continued. I had to go in again. Only to see that he had scratched his entire forehead until the point where he made himself bleed. And the crys he was making I had never heard. I started to practically sob. That was the end for me. So it was back in my bed where we cuddled and he is now sleeping snug as a bug. Needless to say it was unsuccessful.

Feeling like a huge failure right now, I can't see this ever working. I don't think I can do it. But he needs to start falling asleep on his own. I can transfer him to his crib for the night just fine, he just doesn't know how to put himself to sleep without me laying right next to him. I know I should have done this earlier but didn't. Plus he is going through really bad separation anxiety over the last two weeks and he's been sick so just very out of sorts and uncharacteristic of him.

Not sure what to do...thanks!

Message edited 4/6/2008 9:29:42 PM.

Re: CIO Failure

It took me 3 or 4 tries before we really started to get it right with Logan.

And even on that 4th try DH had to practically tackle me so I wouldn't go in and get him.

What is the full bedtime routine for you?

Re: CIO Failure

routine...wish we had one which is to blame for the problem

I have to say that it depends on the day but the method of putting him to sleep is always that same. He spends every Thursday night (and sometimes Wednesday nights) at my MIL's so I feel like everything is so fragmented. On the weekdays I typically get home at about 5:30 so we have to squeeze in playtime, dinner, bath, bottle. We do the book during playtime because that hasn't lent itself to sleepy time because he and I usually fight over the book because he wants to eat it. We condense all of this into a 2 hour period. Weekends really depend on what we have going on. We were at a birthday party today so we got home at about 7:30 which is usually his bedtime.

All in all though the way he goes to sleep is he drinks his bottle in my bed. Sometimes he falls asleep while drinking it. Sometimes he doesn't. At which time we watch tv and cuddle (used to be the backyardigans on dvr but I've recently discovered that he really could care less about tv so I watch my shows that I dvr'd for the week - i keep the volume really low and the lights down). Some nights it takes an hour for him to fall asleep. Either way though, I transfer him to his crib no problem. For the last few weeks he does wake up MANY times throughout the night.

I feel like the crying could have given me a mental breakdown if I let it go on any longer than I did. I probably should enlist DH in some moral support.

Re: CIO Failure

First off, .

Ok here goes my opinion:
You need to decide that you really want to tackle this situation. And if you REALLY do, then give CIO a chance and BELIEVE in it.

Step 1: Set a bedtime routine that can be followed every night (including at your MILs) that does not include TV (TV is stimulating, not typically recommended for before bedtime). For example: Bed, bath, book (in his bedroom), bed/crib (NO TV).

Step 2: For CIO -- let him cry for 5 min and then go in (for 2 min to reassure him). Then wait 10 min and go in. Then go 15. If you hate this, stay in his room as he cries in his crib. At least you are THERE and not "abandoning" him. Also, as you said, you definitely need DH for support. It is NOT easy.

I just think you really need to commit to it. I did it with DD and it was SO HARD, but I needed to do it.

Re: CIO Failure

thank you so much.

In terms of believing in CIO, I believe that he needs to develop the ability to put himself to sleep, if CIO is the only way we will get there than I believe in it.

In terms of TV, i agree with you on that part and can cut it out, especially since the goal is to have this routine exist in his room and not mine.

I appreciate the specifics on what to do in those increments. In the last few weeks when he wakes in the middle of the night I've been able to get him to put himself to sleep but only if I sit in his glider with him still in the crib. From what I've read in terms of everyone else's experience the whole process can take a few days and I'd probably rather not have it involve me staying in the room because then I'm going to have to wean him off that eventually too, no? Also, when you go in after 15 minutes to reassure, what exactly do you do? Usually I rub his face and hair. Am I supposed to talk to him, make eye contact??? I just want to make sure I'm doing this right.

Thanks again for your advice!

Re: CIO Failure

I agree with InShock. It's not something that's going to be easy.

I also think that you should probably change a few things.

Giving him the bottle in your bed. Try sitting in a glider with him, in his room. Lights dim. No TV - too stimulating (Like she said)

I think the cuddling part after the bottle has to go also. I know you probably love to cuddle - but I think he needs to associate bottle - then bed. This is the new routine.

He will cry - scream - bang - do it all - you can go in and comfort him - but don't give in to taking him out. Personally - I don't go into Jack when he cries - bc that makes him SOOOO much worse - but you have to do what is right for your own child.

Since doing CIO at 6 months (which he really only cried like 3 times) my life has been SO much better. I was exhausted. Rocking him. Waking up in the middle of the night -and then rocking him all over again. I was shot.

Good luck! We're here if you need us.

Re: CIO Failure

yes, the whole thing is going to take place in his room including the bottle. Do you think it is better for me to give him his bottle on the glider than put him in his crib or have him drink it himself in his crib?

Yeah, the cuddling part is going to really be hard on me. I just feel like I don't get enough time with him and so I'm making this decision that is taking away the only bonding we really get to do during the week. It stinks!

Thanks so much for the advice

Re: CIO Failure

Posted by lbelle821

yes, the whole thing is going to take place in his room including the bottle. Do you think it is better for me to give him his bottle on the glider than put him in his crib or have him drink it himself in his crib?

Yeah, the cuddling part is going to really be hard on me. I just feel like I don't get enough time with him and so I'm making this decision that is taking away the only bonding we really get to do during the week. It stinks!

Thanks so much for the advice

Re: CIO Failure

Re: CIO Failure

ladies, I really appreciate you talking me through this and I have some good ideas. I do have some soothing CD's we can do.

Thinking about the bottle thing, I actually am now thinking that if I give it to him in the glider I might not feel to slighted by the lack of cuddle time. Mornings aren't really an option, we are up early as it is and DH and I have a routine so that the 3 of us can get ready and out the door by 7:15. I'm sure I'll get over it. It is more important that he learns to do this.

Palebride, I've never heard anything either way about the bottle in the crib but figured that since he drinks his bottle himself in my bed (with me laying next to him) that he would be fine in the crib too. You very well could be right. But like I said above, I think I am going to give it to him in his glider so that we can do our cuddling then.

Re: CIO Failure

Posted by lbelle821

ladies, I really appreciate you talking me through this and I have some good ideas. I do have some soothing CD's we can do.

Thinking about the bottle thing, I actually am now thinking that if I give it to him in the glider I might not feel to slighted by the lack of cuddle time. Mornings aren't really an option, we are up early as it is and DH and I have a routine so that the 3 of us can get ready and out the door by 7:15. I'm sure I'll get over it. It is more important that he learns to do this.

Palebride, I've never heard anything either way about the bottle in the crib but figured that since he drinks his bottle himself in my bed (with me laying next to him) that he would be fine in the crib too. You very well could be right. But like I said above, I think I am going to give it to him in his glider so that we can do our cuddling then.

Re: CIO Failure

I think they say that if they fall asleep with the bottle, the formula can pool in their mouth and cause tooth decay.
Of course, that's how my parents got my siblings and I to sleep! (so they should get all of my dentist bills!)
I think the idea of cuddle time/bottle right before bed is a great idea for you. And it might soothe him enough that he has an easier time going to sleep.

And about the mornings...I have to be out of the house by 6:30, so I only have about 20 minutes with my daughter and some days...it's sooo hard to go to work!

Good luck!!

Re: CIO Failure

Posted by Palebride

I think they say that if they fall asleep with the bottle, the formula can pool in their mouth and cause tooth decay.
Of course, that's how my parents got my siblings and I to sleep! (so they should get all of my dentist bills!)
I think the idea of cuddle time/bottle right before bed is a great idea for you. And it might soothe him enough that he has an easier time going to sleep.

And about the mornings...I have to be out of the house by 6:30, so I only have about 20 minutes with my daughter and some days...it's sooo hard to go to work!

Good luck!!

Re: CIO Failure

I've also heard the no bottle in the crib thing. It can cause tooth decay is what I believe they say.

I figured I would share our bedtime routine just to give you another idea!

We start about 30 minutes before bedtime (earlier on the days we include a bath, but that's only every other day at the most).

Our routine starts in the living room. I play the same music every night - soothing, classical "made for bedtime" music (it's Baby Einstein). I dim the lights.

DD and I sit on the couch and DD has her bottle (which she doesn't hold on her own - I'm jealous your DS does!!). We just have a nice, relaxing time together.

Then I take DD to her room. I turn on her white noise, put her in her sleep sack, and we sit on the glider together and read 3 books. We always end with the same book and some prayers.

After that, I shut the light (I swear she associates the clicking of the switch with bedtime! ), and rock her for like 30 sec to a min.

I then lay her in her crib, say "Goodnight, I love you" and leave the room.

DD sometimes cries for 5 seconds (literally) and other times no crying at all.

HTH!

Re: CIO Failure

Have you read Dr. Ferber's Book? If not I suggeat that before trying again your read it. It really helped us understand the methodology behind his version of CIO. After 2 nights of following Ferber our DS was only crying for a couple of mins. Now he doesn't cry at all.

I think following a routine before bed is also key. It gives the child cues that bed is coming. With DS we start about 30 mins. before bedtime. First is a bath, then he gets a rub down with moisturizer and dressed for bed, next is bottle and then 3 books. We say goodnight and he is off to sleep.

Message edited 4/6/2008 1:30:14 PM.

Re: CIO Failure

I agree with most of what was said above. I think that a consistant routine, no matter where DS is, is key.

If it helps our schedule is: every night at 7:00 DS goes into the tub.

If he's super awake and playful, it's a 20 minute bath. If he's sleepy it's a 5-10 minute one. We use the J&J bedtime bath.

Then we change him into his PJs..

Then it's snuggle and bottle time. We snuggle into the glider and read a few books or sing songs.

All very quietly and calmly.

At 8:00 (or earlier if he starts to drift off) we kiss him goodnight and put him down in the crib.

For the first 2 weeks he would cry 20-30 minutes. (We'd go in at 5, then 10, then 15 and pat his back for a couple minutes then leave.)

By the end of the 2nd week he would fuss for a couple minutes and then sleep.

Now he doesn't even cry.

Side note: If we are out somewhere and it's past 7:00 when we come home, we still do everything in that order, but quicker (unless it's really late).

It was hard the first couple weeks, but now it's a lifesaver.

Re: CIO Failure

It sounds like your DS is having the same problems my DS had. My DS was still waking up 5 times at night when he was 5 months old. I would get up and rock him back to sleep within a minute or so. I read Dr. Ferbers book which absolutely changed my life. My DH and I recommend it to everyone! I would absolutely read it before trying again.

I agree with everyone else about the routine thing...its absolutely necessary. I still have the same routines to this day only changed slightly to accomodate his age and he is 21 months old.

It sounds like your son doesnt know how to fall asleep without you. The way the book explained it to me was that the last thing that DS remembers before falling asleep is being in my arms being rocked and when he wakes up in the middle of the night in his crib alone he becomes frightened because he doesnt know how he got there and how to go back to sleep. It totally made sense to me after reading it. DS really need to learn to put himself to sleep so that he would be able to do it in the middle of the night and for naps ....etc. Definitely try again and stay strong. It definitely works and you, DH and even DS will absolutely benefit from it. Again, IT CHANGED MY LIFE AND I LOVE IT!!!

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Re: CIO Failure - UPDATE SUCCESS!!!!

Thank you so much ladies. I def. think I'm going to get the book. Amanda (Jerseypanda) explained some of the timing to me in FM which was great.

The routine thing is completely my fault. I am probably the least methodical person I know. But for DS's sake I'm going to really work on this.

As a side-note, up until DS was 4 months old he used to put himself to sleep in his crib. Everything was great. At that point we stopped using the miracle blanket and then he got RSV so that is how the poor habits developed (i.e. falling asleep in my room).

So about tonight, I'm not sure if it was a fluke or not but I'll take it. Matthew and I were out mostly all day running errands and shopping so he really didn't get in a good afternoon nap. Nevertheless he really wasn't acting super sleepy. So at 7pm we did a bath. I brought him into his room where the lights were already dim and our fisher price lullaby cd was playing. He was babbling up a storm so I was a little concerned that he wasn't acting sleepy. We did our normal dressing that we always do (massage with J&J nightime lotion) while I sang to him. Again, I was trying to be soothing and he was yelling DADADADADA at me. oh well, little traitor! He started to get a little fussy at that point so we got his bottle, and I gave it to him on his glider. I sang to him, we listened to the cd, said some prayers...he was startingd to drift off. But then the phone rang (arghhhh) and now he was wide-eyed again. So he finished his bottle. I put the paci in his mouth, gave him a big kiss, and laid him in his crib, put the lights out, took a deep breath and left. He was quiet. After 3 minutes he let out two wimpy cries and that was it He was out!

So, I'd call it a success. I do have some questions for you ladies since you've all been so insightful.

First, DH is sick so he wasn't able to be involved tonight because we're keeping him as far away as we can. Do you guys typically have bedtime with both of you involved or is it just one of you? I am the one who usually does 99% of it. But how do I incorporate DH into this in the event that he has to put DS to sleep without me?

Next, what happens now in the middle of the night? Its been tricky lately because he's been battling the 6 week ear infection so anytime he wakes up crying I run. I hope I'm not jinxing it but I think he's on the up and up. So if he wakes in the middle of the night how long do I let him cry? What if he is in hysterics? I can see leaving him if he is just fussing but I think I'd worry too much if he woke up hysterical. Especially since it wouldn't be uncharacteristic of him that he is sick.

I can't thank you ladies enough. I'm hoping tomorrow night will go just as smooth.

Re: CIO Failure - UPDATE SUCCESS!!!

So exciting Lisa!!! Whatever tonight was, congrats to you and Matthew!

To answer your questions, DH does get involved each night. The routine is the same, just depends on who is feeding him his last meal. If I am nursing him before bed, DH will bring Lucas upstairs, change his diaper, put his jammies on, put him in the sleep sak then he will hand Lucas to me and I will nurse him and put him in his crib. If DH is feeding him a bottle, we will just switch roles. You know I was just gone for a week, so we had practiced him having a bottle before bed a couple of weeks before I left. THis way DH did not have any problems putting Lucas down. I like when we are both involved, but understand that there may be times we both aren't there.

As for the middle of the night wakings, Lucas has only done it once since starting CIO. It was after he got used to going to sleep on his own. SO the one time he woke in the middle of the night, we used the same technique.. with the same time frames of checking on him. He didn't cry long and put himself back to sleep. Lucas usually sleeps from about 8:30 to 6:00... I have decided that he does not need to eat before 5 am, so if he wakes before that I am not feeding him. Seems to have worked thus far.

My only advice to you is to stick to the CIO. It might be confusing to Matthew if you do it one night, then tomorrow night you pick him up if he starts crying. If you're going to do it, go all the way! I have been told and can speak from experience that it is much harder on you than it is on the little guy! Good luck tomorrow.... can't wait to hear how it goes!

Re: CIO Failure - UPDATE SUCCESS!!!

I am so glad to read your update.
I haven't replied sooner (last night) because, I myself have been struggling with CIO.
We came back from vacation last week and it totally messed DS up..

Anyway, tonight here also was a success!

To answer your question: Yes. DH is always involved in the bedtime routine. If he get's stuck at work and DS can't stay awake anymore, then, I'll do it myself, however, that's not too often.
We go in, turn on the lamp, his sound machine, close the blinds ( I even made up a song for the blinds closing...I have one for the mornings too for the blinds opening), we do a family hug, smother DS with kisses and lay him down.
Say "We love you" and walk out.

As for the middle of the night, DS has not done that in a LONG time, (Knock on wood), but, when/if he does I quietly go in, lay him on his belly and rub his back. If that doesn't work, I try rocking him in the glider. If all else fails, we bring him to bed with us, rub his back and transfer him back to the crib..we try NOT to bring him to bed with us though. Don't want him to get used to that.

Good Luck the rest of tonight and many, many other nights to follow!

Re: CIO Failure - UPDATE SUCCESS!!!

Saving this thread for when I try (soon)

HAppy to hear your success! Good luck in continuing!

Re: CIO Failure - UPDATE SUCCESS!!!

Yippy for you! You made some huge progress! Stick with it and in a week you will be smiling wiht DH after you put DS to sleep at night thinking about why you didnt do it sooner.

To answer your questions:
DH is the routine right now with DS. I definitely get to spend more time with DS so DH gives him a bath, changes him, gives him his bottle, brings him out to me so I can hug and kiss him, and then brings him to bed. I wouldnt stress too much about who does it as long as you remain consistant. If DH is there and can participate great but if not I would make sure that DH puts him down atleast once per week so that he knows the routine as well in case you are not there. Trust me, once you have your routine down pat and it's easy to put DS to sleep you will both want to do it because its definitely mushy time.

As far as waking in the middle of the night: If DS is sick it's tricky. The book really says that if he is sick you should go to him. If he is not sick then you should start the routine over again...wait 5 minutes before going in the first time...go in and comfort him (but dont pick him up unless he is wet/dirty diaper or sick)....leave the room and wait 10 minutes. The first few night DS woke up a few times at night and once he realized I wouldnt come running he would just go back to sleep. The first few nights were tough though because he would wake up and cry for atleast 20-30 minutes which is a long time in the middle of the night. But....stay consistant and it absolutely works. If you have any other questions please let me know.

Re: CIO Failure - UPDATE SUCCESS!!!

Posted by JRHmom



Yippy for you! You made some huge progress! Stick with it and in a week you will be smiling wiht DH after you put DS to sleep at night thinking about why you didnt do it sooner.

To answer your questions:
DH is the routine right now with DS. I definitely get to spend more time with DS so DH gives him a bath, changes him, gives him his bottle, brings him out to me so I can hug and kiss him, and then brings him to bed. I wouldnt stress too much about who does it as long as you remain consistant. If DH is there and can participate great but if not I would make sure that DH puts him down atleast once per week so that he knows the routine as well in case you are not there. Trust me, once you have your routine down pat and it's easy to put DS to sleep you will both want to do it because its definitely mushy time.

As far as waking in the middle of the night: If DS is sick it's tricky. The book really says that if he is sick you should go to him. If he is not sick then you should start the routine over again...wait 5 minutes before going in the first time...go in and comfort him (but dont pick him up unless he is wet/dirty diaper or sick)....leave the room and wait 10 minutes. The first few night DS woke up a few times at night and once he realized I wouldnt come running he would just go back to sleep. The first few nights were tough though because he would wake up and cry for atleast 20-30 minutes which is a long time in the middle of the night. But....stay consistant and it absolutely works. If you have any other questions please let me know.

Re: CIO Failure - UPDATE SUCCESS!!!

Lisa,
I am so glad to see things are getting better. Please remember, keeping the night time routine is the important factor, regardless of where and even when it is taking place. DS doesn't have a bed time, per say, but the routine does not change at all. It could be as early as 6 or as late as 9!

As far as in the middle of the night, just go in and comfort him. Rubbing his back or belly should do the trick. I wouldn't suggest talking too much, just enough to comfort him.