CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

Ok its time for me to get REAL about this.

I need advice on what you would do and when to start.

We are moving the week of May 15th..still 5 weeks away.

should I wait to start any real nighttime routine?

And once I do...

What do I do?

I tried CIO once and it worked but failed once he became mobile ( mostly our fault)..

Noah will NOT nap anywhere but on us.

He will not go to sleep in his crib unless transferred and its honestly getting to be too much.

He is sooo stubborn, like you have never seen and we have added on so many bad habits.

I hate CIO, I hate hearing him. but I will do whats neccesary now.

My issue is that he screams, he chokes ( and gets Dh upset) and he stands up and tries to climb out of the crib.

I read the babyswhisperer's PU/PD method and cant see how it would work with him. I lay him back down and he flips out so badly.

Im so scared of this

I feel like I messed him up and its too late to fix

Eta- hes 10 months.

Message edited 4/6/2008 11:25:49 PM.

Re: CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

First things first, don't do anything until you move, unless you really feel you cannot wait any longer.

My advice is that you and DH need to be on the same page 100% first, even if it's the hardest thing to do.
CIO is not for every baby, but I particularly think it worked well for my very stubborn baby and she was a little younger than Noah.

If you decide to do CIO, here's what I suggest:
If you know your son will freak out if you go check on him, then don't. It's only going to bring the whole scenario back to square one.

Be prepared for his crying to last a LONG LONG LONG time, but also remember that if you let him cry then eventually go in and get him, then you just let him cry for nothing, and now he's just upset for nothing.

Read Ferber's book How to Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems or whatever it's called. Chances are that his sleep associations are completely out of whack and he is frightened and confused at bedtime.

Get a good bedtime routine going. Ours, unfortunately, ended up being her watchign a relaxing video while drinking her bottle in her pack n play by herself. But she is so stubborn that she needed that alone time before bed. To this day, she watches the same video and lays watching tv and drinking her milk without much interaction.

Hmm, let me see what else I can think of.

Re: CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

We were on the Baby Whisperer schedule until about 9 months...then Cate started refusing to sleep through the night (up 2+ times!)...so we started CIO and it worked! Now she goes down in her crib at bedtime and usually doesn't even fuss...she'll also go down in her crib for her first nap as well (2nd is another story!)...the first time, she cried for about 12 minutes total and it went down quickly...hope you find your solution!

Re: CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

What is his day/nights like as far as routine goes?

Re: CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

As long as you can have the same routine when you do move I would start now.

Better now then going through it when your mom can hear it too when you are first starting, IMO.

I found CIO to be hard, but much more effective than PU/PD - that just seemed to get him more upset.

We didn't do CIO until Logan was mobile either. And even with CIO he would scream and hit his head and cough and whine.

But it was necessary to do - he wasn't sleeping otherwise.

We did the 5 minutes then 10, then 15, etc.

But honestly after the first couple nights of that he figured out that he just needed to cry harder and longer. So we stopped going in.

It would be MAX 20 minutes and he would be out.

We could watch him the whole time on the video monitor so we knew he was okay.

A little over a month into it now and he doesn't even cry when we put him down at night.


As for naps, we just started CIO for them too. Otherwise I was out of commission for 2 plus hours at a time on the weekends and there is too much we need to get done.

It takes him a little longer to go down for those but it's only about 5 minutes of crying then out.


Overall CIO has been a lifesaver. He sleeps through the night, and even if he does wake up he is able to put himself back to sleep. Which is nice.

I think you and Danny just have to pick a night and say "This is it." and start.

Re: CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

Posted by leighla
I think you and Danny just have to pick a night and say "This is it." and start.

Re: CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

Posted by racheeeee

Posted by leighla
I think you and Danny just have to pick a night and say "This is it." and start.

I couldn't agree more with this statement, you have to pick at date and say RIGHT. This is the beginning of the end of not sleeping. You have to support each other and agree that this is the tactic that you are taking. I know for me, CIO has been a lifesaver. Also, a really strict bedtime routine is important (we do bath, bottle, story, bed) Its painful, but remember, he is in a safe place, he won't hurt himself, and once you get him into a good sleep routine, you will have your life back!!!

GOOD LUCK!!

Re: CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

My DS is younger than yours and is a pretty good sleeper overall, but the times where I have had trouble putting him down, I found letting him cry a bit was better than that whole PU/PD method the Baby Whisperer recommends. I think he gets more worked up by the up/down thing and seeing me there.

Good luck, I know you have been struggling

Re: CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

I agree with leighla, racheeeee, and Bxgell2 about having to pick and night and both agree that that will be the night Noah starts to sleep. It might take a while to go smooth but so long as you both are in the frame of mind that it's bedtime and this old routine is no longer going to happen I think you'll start to see a difference.

Our babies look to us for cues, the sense our emotions and it drives a lot of what happens.

I know that at 7pm my mind is set that Lucas will go to bed and there are plenty of times where he doesn't agree and wants to play but I am firm. I won't talk to him (I do smile but only when he is in the drowsy state) I won't respond to his actions. If he continues to fight it I do one of two things:

1. Switch with DH (if he's home) who really doesn't play around and Lucas gets the message fast
2. Put him in the crib and let him cry - he gets very worked up but I let him go 10 - 15 minutes then I go back, pick him up, rock him and he falls asleep.

There are so many factors involved in the methods that we each decide on for our children and what you end up doing will be what works for Noah. But to determine that...I do suggest that you try everything until you find what works...and give each method a fair amount of time.

It took us 10 months (and counting) to develop what works for Lucas and for us. I feel that all of these months of the same routine has helped Lucas to understand what is happening, what is expected and what he can expect. No matter what method you decide...bottom line is you have to teach him how to sleep and you have to be determined and committed to the core...he will pick that up.

Re: CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

Posted by Bxgell2

Posted by racheeeee

Posted by leighla
I think you and Danny just have to pick a night and say "This is it." and start.

I couldn't agree more with this statement, you have to pick at date and say RIGHT. This is the beginning of the end of not sleeping. You have to support each other and agree that this is the tactic that you are taking. I know for me, CIO has been a lifesaver. Also, a really strict bedtime routine is important (we do bath, bottle, story, bed) Its painful, but remember, he is in a safe place, he won't hurt himself, and once you get him into a good sleep routine, you will have your life back!!!

GOOD LUCK!!

Agreed. Making the decision as to which style you're going to use depends a lot on your comfort level and your child. I couldn't use the baby whisperer technique - Alex was just way too fussy. I also couldn't use the technique where you go into the room in increments to pat their back - it would send Alex into a tizzy every time she saw me. We just had to use CIO, cold turkey, without going in to soothe her.

Was it difficult? Insanely. But you just have to agree, as a couple that this is what you are going to do, and do not relent. For us, within about 5-6 days she was sleeping 12 hours a night, soundly.

Some think it's cruel, but I'm on the other side - I think it's absolutely ESSENTIAL that they learn self soothing techniques and how to fall asleep on their own. Yes, that means, for the first few days they learn by crying. But after you get through those first few days, they start to learn other ways to put themselves to sleep.

Besides, at that age, as hard as it is to hear them cry, they won't remember it when they are older. In fact, it's not likely that they'll even remember it the next day.

One tip - my nerves aren't as strong as DH's. I couldn't listen to it - it tore me to pieces, so I slept downstairs in the basement for those 5 nights, with my ipod on, so I wouldn't have to hear it

Re: CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

great advice, but still unsure if I should start now or once we move.

having a bedtime routine is a little difficult now b/c we have to pack a lot at night , just issues, but I WOULD make it work if now is the best time.

Re: CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

I agree with the others - you need to both be able to stick with it.

Hearing them cry is no fun - but it's only for a short while - and Noah will be better off in the end.

You aren't moving till mid-May right? There is no way I would wait until then.

I also think you have to do things around the same time each night. It really should not vary. Pick a time when you notice he is getting tired - and start the bedtime routine before then.

Jack will play in his crib sometimes for up to 45 minutes once he is in there for bed. Maybe sometimes he will whine - but for the most part he just plays and then goes down to sleep.

It's not easy to listen to your baby cry - but I think at this point you really don't have any other choice. Sorry!

Re: CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

I think I would try to start now.

We have a similar issue, but not as bad.
We've only ever put DD down to bed when she's already asleep. We either put her in the swing, rock her anything... and then put her down.
Thanks for posting, as the responses were interesting. I too, need to just get a thick skin and put her in at a "bed time". Since we were waiting until she was asleep, that would be anywhere from 8 to 10, sometimes 11pm. OY...

Good luck to you! (and Noah!!!)

Re: CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

It hink Im gonna do it now...

Well as soon as our housing plumbing issues are fixed

and then just re-do what needs to be done once we move.

I agree that another month and a half is a long time to wait.

What stinks is DH is not home 2-3 times a week at night due to his fun sporting adventures so I know its gonna be me alone.

Re: CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

I would start it now, however, be aware that CIO is not a one time thing. Yes, you will have better sleep patterns, but things do change (ie coming back from a holiday etc) and you will have to do CIO again, it won't be as long, but it is an ongoing thing.

GOOD LUCK!

Don't make excuses and put it off...get yourself going now!

Re: CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

Wanted to add our sleep issues are recent.

HE slept FINE for naps and at night ( 12 hours) till about 7 months when he switched to crib.

Then a few nights of CIO and or using transferring after he fell asleep he still sleep fine in his crib for 10 plus hours at night and went to bed at 7 pm.

Ever since he learned to crawl and stand these issues started?

its only been the last 3 months that we are going through this.

Well except for naps. After he moved from his swing the no napping in the crib started.

Re: CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

Re: CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

Re: CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

1st

What do YOU think you should do?
After all it will be you listening to him cry while doing CIO or you doing PU/PD.
I think you and DH should really come up with a game plan, write it down, discuss your plan-whether or not to CIO, and if you let him CIO for how long, when, will you take hiim into bed etc. or if you will just go into survival mode.

Personally, I could never do CIO, i can't, Dh and don't let our kids scream and cry for more than 5 mins. It just doesn't work for everybaby and to make it worse is that if there's any change in routine, you have to do it all over again, no thankyou..
For us we taught to self soothe, put themselves to sleep when they wake and when it's bedtime, and that their mommy and daddy are there for them no matter what.

Starting at 7 months is when separation anxiety sets in, some babies just like a hug in the middle of the night to feel safe, 9-10 month is the peak of it.
I went through this with my oldest and i'm going through it now with my youngest, it's a phase, they grow out it and one night he'll snap out it just as fast as he went into it. my oldest snapped out of it when she just turned 11 months.

The key is to be CONSISTENT with any bedtime routine you have no matter how much they wake, fight, cry, babies THRIVE on routine, it's what makes them feel safe.

Good luck
I def feel for you cause i was where you are last year with DD and i'm at it now again. It's the same pattern again.

You have to do what works for you and DS, no matter what any of us say to do or try

Re: CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

Posted by Bxgell2

Posted by racheeeee

Posted by leighla
I think you and Danny just have to pick a night and say "This is it." and start.

I couldn't agree more with this statement, you have to pick at date and say RIGHT. This is the beginning of the end of not sleeping. You have to support each other and agree that this is the tactic that you are taking. I know for me, CIO has been a lifesaver. Also, a really strict bedtime routine is important (we do bath, bottle, story, bed) Its painful, but remember, he is in a safe place, he won't hurt himself, and once you get him into a good sleep routine, you will have your life back!!!

GOOD LUCK!!

Agreed. Making the decision as to which style you're going to use depends a lot on your comfort level and your child. I couldn't use the baby whisperer technique - Alex was just way too fussy. I also couldn't use the technique where you go into the room in increments to pat their back - it would send Alex into a tizzy every time she saw me. We just had to use CIO, cold turkey, without going in to soothe her.

Was it difficult? Insanely. But you just have to agree, as a couple that this is what you are going to do, and do not relent. For us, within about 5-6 days she was sleeping 12 hours a night, soundly.

Some think it's cruel, but I'm on the other side - I think it's absolutely ESSENTIAL that they learn self soothing techniques and how to fall asleep on their own. Yes, that means, for the first few days they learn by crying. But after you get through those first few days, they start to learn other ways to put themselves to sleep.

Besides, at that age, as hard as it is to hear them cry, they won't remember it when they are older. In fact, it's not likely that they'll even remember it the next day.

One tip - my nerves aren't as strong as DH's. I couldn't listen to it - it tore me to pieces, so I slept downstairs in the basement for those 5 nights, with my ipod on, so I wouldn't have to hear it

Re: CIO vs. baby whisperer NEED ADVICE( long)

Start now.

When we did CIO w/ DD, we did naps and bedtime all at the same time. I didn't think it would be fair to DD to rock her at naptime but then not at bedtime (and thus confuse her).

We did the increments ... 5, 10, 15 ... I don't think we got to the 15 more than a couple of times. We also did this when she woke up in the middle of the night (but I literally don't think we ever got to the 5 min. after the 1st wake-up on the 1st night!).

I think a HUGE key is consistency. Within the first week we were a bit inconsistent (attempting it at my parents' house and it all just falling apart ), but once we stayed consistent, it worked wonders.

The listening to the crying is AWFUL. There's no two ways about that. Just sit and stare at the clock - that's what I did (well, the clock and the video monitor!) ... and remember he is in a safe place and you are doing what is BEST for him in the long run.

I kept telling myself that *I* taught DD the "wrong" sleep habits and now it was my job to re-teach her. And I'm pretty sure I do believe that.

Ever since we did CIO, DD has been the most AMAZING sleeper. She's down for 11 1/2 - 12 hrs a night STRAIGHT ... no interruptions at all. It's really a beautiful thing.

GOOD LUCK!!